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[Dan_Lockwood]

I've read all the threads on the SE compensator and I'm not really sure what goes bad in the old style.

I'm familiar with the "old" style on my '76 FLH shovelhead. It has the Bellville spring package and the three finger ramps.  I put in a new one for my rebuild about 5 years ago just because the inner splined shaft was getting wider in the splines and I just thought after 30 years it was due.

Now on my '09 SERG, can I actually abuse my compensator in some way that I'm not aware of?  I don't do burn outs or pop wheelies.

So how does the standard compensator wear out and why is the SE better?

Just wondering...

[Keats]

After 22K miles, mine is done

[Dan_Lockwood]

After 22K miles, mine is done

It's done, but what wore it out and "what" wore out?

I forgot to say thanks for replying to my thread...

[Keats]

It's done, but what wore it out and "what" wore out?

I forgot to say thanks for replying to my thread...

They tell me that the torque of the motor tore it apart.

Not sure I buy that, but what are they going to say?

The stock part is a piece of crap..........

higher compression and early timing does take it's toll.

think of it as a rubber disk, once the limits have been exceeded it tears apart

[smkymtnboy]

 >:(makes you irritated.,but at least they make a better one,i hope

[lv2ride56]

Anybody tried the new compensator by BDL yet?

http://www.beltdrives.com/chcomp.html

[muddypaws]

All I know is that after they put in the new compensator the bike starts perfect every time. I was told the stock one was too weak and allowed the bike to kick back during starting. I did not see the old one after they removed it.

[rheiner]

Anybody tried the new compensator by BDL yet?

http://www.beltdrives.com/chcomp.html

If it's only the sprocket I don't see how it's an improvement over the SE compensator. I haven't heard of sprocket failures.

[lv2ride56]

If it's only the sprocket I don't see how it's an improvement over the SE compensator. I haven't heard of sprocket failures.

It says COMPENSATOR!!

[grc]

It says COMPENSATOR!!

It says compensator sprocket, actually.  I'd like to see both sides and the guts of that thing to see if it really has a shock absorbing mechanism built in, or if it's just a heavy duty sprocket.  Can't tell from that web site, as there are no details at all.


Jerry

[miker]

Mine came with broke springs in the assy from the factory.

9k miles and 4 "its normal" "we have no guidance from the factory" dealer visits before I repaired it...
Oy and I wasted that 17hun of an extendo W to boot...Stupid is as stupid does I guess. 

[lv2ride56]

It says compensator sprocket, actually.  I'd like to see both sides and the guts of that thing to see if it really has a shock absorbing mechanism built in, or if it's just a heavy duty sprocket.  Can't tell from that web site, as there are no details at all.

http://www.harley-davidson-hangout.com/forum/hdrcgb-new-stuff/60245-new-type-compensator-bdl.html

Wondering how it could provide much cushion.

[Keats]

The drive spline is totally disconnected from the sprocket. You could think of it as a clutch that does not open, but will slip.

[grc]

http://www.harley-davidson-hangout.com/forum/hdrcgb-new-stuff/60245-new-type-compensator-bdl.html

Wondering how it could provide much cushion.

I imagine it doesn't, since it only relies on the compressability of those two teflon washers to provide relative movement of the output shaft of the crank to the primary chain.  Doesn't say they are special wave washers that would act as springs, so I'd be real interested to see just how much travel is really available, and how resilient those washers will be over time.  And the idea of two threaded parts constantly rubbing back and forth under load doesn't conjure up images of high mileage reliability.  


Jerry

Oh yeah, if it was really all that great why would they sell it for less than the stock parts? 

[Dan_Lockwood]

I appreciate all the input and the information on the new compensator from BDL, but I was really wondering how a person could damage the stock 110" CVO compensator, not the new SE compensator.

What would be an abusive application of the bike that would cause problems to the compensator itself?  I know that doing wheelies, or anything that would produce shock loads "might" be an issue, but I would have to think that the MOCO had some of this abuse in mind when designing the stock 110" CVO compensator.  Maybe just starting our bikes is more of a pulse shock that the compensator just cannot handle.

I know how a person could fry a clutch, burn up brake pads, but how does one tear up a compensator?  Maybe it's just a design flaw. 

There are probably two schools of thought on this.  The first is that there are a lot of "good" stock 110" CVO compensators out there, including the one on my bike.  Second, if they were so good, what prompted the SE compensator?

Just thinking out loud, so to speak...

[SIX38]

 Hello Dan,
 Simply put, the tension of the Belville washers in the stock compensator is too weak and allows the compensator to move to its travel stop  easily. That allows shock forces from the drive train to be transfered to the crankshaft instead of being absorbed by the compensator. As we know that is the last thing we want to do to our fragile pressed crankshaft /flywheel assemblies. It also results in a fair amount of noise, roughness in shifting, and shock loads to the starter  during starting.The SE compensator has much more robust washer springs that are properly sized for the job the compensator is designed to do. Another HD design screw-up that many of us had to correct on our own dollar!
 well worth the effort though.
 Photo shows new SE washers on the left, stock washer on right inside stator cover. BIG difference in size.
Tom P.

[SIX38]

This photo shows the stock compensator with a lot of wear at the point of full travel. Only 3000 miles on this part so it indicates a lot occurrences of the compensator not compensating.
Tom P.

[SIX38]

Lots of wear and starting to mushroom on the other part of the compensator.
Tom P.

[grc]

Dan, it is NOT abuse by the rider that causes the problem.  No way, no how, uh uh.  If someone is telling you that, he is jerking your chain or flat out lying.  The problem is poor design that did not meet the requirements of even the standard TC96, much less the higher torque 110.  Insufficient spring tension, insufficient travel, insufficient torque capacity. And it only took H-D five years to change all the bikes to the higher capacity SE design, after trying to pass off all the problems the old design caused as "Normal".  They knew better very early on, as evidenced by the '08 release of the SE compensator.


Jerry

BTW, the reason some bikes exhibit problems from the beginning, others only after some miles, and some none SO FAR, is rooted in the variability of the parts.  Early on it was found that the stock spring packs in the old style weren't consistent and the tension varied a great deal.  Some of the early fixes involved adding a spring to the pack, which seemed to eliminate some symptoms.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Dan, it is NOT abuse by the rider that causes the problem.  No way, no how, uh uh.  If someone is telling you that, he is jerking your chain or flat out lying.  The problem is poor design that did not meet the requirements of even the standard TC96, much less the higher torque 110.  Insufficient spring tension, insufficient travel, insufficient torque capacity. And it only took H-D five years to change all the bikes to the higher capacity SE design, after trying to pass off all the problems the old design caused as "Normal".  They knew better very early on, as evidenced by the '08 release of the SE compensator.


Jerry

BTW, the reason some bikes exhibit problems from the beginning, others only after some miles, and some none SO FAR, is rooted in the variability of the parts.  Early on it was found that the stock spring packs in the old style weren't consistent and the tension varied a great deal.  Some of the early fixes involved adding a spring to the pack, which seemed to eliminate some symptoms.

Jerry, sorry, I wasn't implying that guys were "trying" to tear up their compensators, but only trying to get my head around what we might be doing that is killing these stock 110" CVO compensators.  I for one would try to avoid those conditions if I knew what they were.

I appreciate the input a lot.  I've had my shovelhead compensator apart and there were signs of major ramp wear on them too.  But that was after about 60k miles and about 30 years of riding.

Thanks again everyone...

[lv2ride56]

Your "stock" and the SE are one and the same. It was older bikes that had the problem with the stock comps>

[sadunbar]

Your "stock" and the SE are one and the same. It was older bikes that had the problem with the stock comps>

As of 09 to the present, I believe....  The 07's and 08's came stock with a poorly engineered compensator...  The "SE" compensator was an optional purchase starting in 08.

[miker]

As of 09 to the present, I believe....  The 07's and 08's came stock with a poorly engineered compensator...  The "SE" compensator was an optional purchase starting in 08.

Yup..combine poor engineering, low grade material, installation discrepancies and you got a winner for losing.  Nothing new about it.

[Dan_Lockwood]

As of 09 to the present, I believe....  The 07's and 08's came stock with a poorly engineered compensator...  The "SE" compensator was an optional purchase starting in 08.

I believe that to be true except that I think it was on the '10 CVO's that the SE compensator became standard issue.  I thought I read on hear that some of the '09 SERG guys had to upgrade to the SE because of starter kick back and noise issues.  Some paid and some got it free.

[sadunbar]

I believe that to be true except that I think it was on the '10 CVO's that the SE compensator became standard issue.  I thought I read on hear that some of the '09 SERG guys had to upgrade to the SE because of starter kick back and noise issues.  Some paid and some got it free.

Actually, that sounds right...  I think it was 2010...

[Twolanerider]

Actually, that sounds right...  I think it was 2010...

That's correct.  09 SEUC (for example) still had the 40296-06 compensator.  2010 SEUC got the 83something-09 "SE" compensator.

[fatboybern]

not sure exactly what the origanal one looks like yet but rode my friends bike the down shifting was silent compared to mine both same 09 touring models said the comp improved the down shifting makes no sense to me as a seasoned tech myself but i did buy one anyways as i will be changing to a 30 tooth any ways i also heard the se sprocket has a very slight ratio difference wont no till i get her apart but all a compensator is is a dampner to prevent shock loads to your drive line and crank it works on a spring and ramp much like a snowmobile clutch more ramp more tension thus dampening shock load if you veer from a stock engine and apply much more torque and hp thus you will have more shock loading the stock may not hold up to this extra abuse and by the way just incase any one is wondering a bellville spring is quite reliable actually they exist in many auto applications in your transmissions it is just a different type of spring that is all has been around for years and harley didnt invent it they only use it

[Zinister]

Just my 2 cents but I would guess that hard downshifting is the worst case. I don't think these motors can produce the same forces during acceleration.

[BigLew]

Just replaced mine on the 09 with 12,000 miles. New SE part make quite a bit of difference. Man the MotoCo sure passes on a bunch of junk.

Mike

[North Star]

Just replaced mine on the 09 with 12,000 miles. New SE part make quite a bit of difference. Man the MotoCo sure passes on a bunch of junk.

Mike

Just did mine as well- the studdering and chugging in first gear is gone.

[kraut]

09 went with standard compensator. Had the SE installed before take over. Worn after 15.000 m 

[480Ruger]

Taking mine in today.  Started knocking on the way home from the HD Museum.  30K on scooter.  Throttle sensor left me on the side of the road out west too.  Found corrosion in the old style plug inside the bars.  Hope I can get them to change both to the new ones.

[jeep]

Just dropped my 08 S/E Ultra off at Reno Harley for what it sounds like the compensator issue all you guys have described. Even stopped by my favorite independent shop with Certified Harley techs they confirmed the same thoughts. Then at Reno Harley the Service Writer (name withheld) told me that he worked at Harley and have not heard about a compensator issue. Then told me since I have a Race Tuner Harley will not cover my bike under warranty. This Dealership was just bought by Chesters and I am hoping this turns out better than I feel. 
Thanks all for this groups information...Eugene

[rheiner]

Just dropped my 08 S/E Ultra off at Reno Harley for what it sounds like the compensator issue all you guys have described. Even stopped by my favorite independent shop with Certified Harley techs they confirmed the same thoughts. Then at Reno Harley the Service Writer (name withheld) told me that he worked at Harley and have not heard about a compensator issue. Then told me since I have a Race Tuner Harley will not cover my bike under warranty. This Dealership was just bought by Chesters and I am hoping this turns out better than I feel. 
Thanks all for this groups information...Eugene

That's a joke of a response from Reno HD. Did you tell them you bought a Race Tuner? I've never had that response from any dealer on a warranty claim away from home, and I've had 5-6 claims on the road the past few years. My home dealer would never give such a shameful, pitiful response.

[480Ruger]

As soon as I said compensator they said "we have had a lot of problems and no question we will change it out".  Bad thing they said I had the S/E Compensator from the factory to begin with.

[skippy]

My comp is going on the 07 Springer  looking at the parts book the SE compensator will -NOT- fit the springer or the rocker thats a crock.....

[grc]

My comp is going on the 07 Springer  looking at the parts book the SE compensator will -NOT- fit the springer or the rocker thats a crock.....

I believe what you will find is that the '07 Springer had the original cheap crap compensator, but the '09 Springer was upgraded from the factory to the SE style compensator.  Thus the note about the SE compensator kit not for use on the '09 Springer, since it already has it standard.  Harley has weird ways of doing those notes that tend to confuse most everyone including their own dealers.

The attachment is from the installation instructions for the original SE Compensator kit.  Note that it only mentions the '09 Springer, not the '07 or '08.  You can also verify what I said above by consulting the parts manual for the '07 and the '09, the '07 comp assy is part number 20296-06, the one in the '09 is part number 40370-08.


Jerry

[grc]

Attachment #2.

[skippy]

I believe what you will find is that the '07 Springer had the original cheap crap compensator, but the '09 Springer was upgraded from the factory to the SE style compensator.  Thus the note about the SE compensator kit not for use on the '09 Springer, since it already has it standard.  Harley has weird ways of doing those notes that tend to confuse most everyone including their own dealers.

The attachment is from the installation instructions for the original SE Compensator kit.  Note that it only mentions the '09 Springer, not the '07 or '08.  You can also verify what I said above by consulting the parts manual for the '07 and the '09, the '07 comp assy is part number 20296-06, the one in the '09 is part number 40370-08.

Jerry  what is the part# to upgrade to the SE Comp for the 07 springer  the parts guy and service dept  have got me all confused thanks for your help     

[grc]

40274-08 is the kit number.  It is being superceded by an updated kit 40274-08A I believe.


Jerry


Edit:  The latest kit number is 40274-08A, and that's the one you want.  See attachment, as I mentioned previously there is no mention of it not working on the '07 or '08 Springer.  Not sure why your dealer can't figure this one out.

[skippy]

Jerry great info after talking with two  dealers one finally agreed with your info  they were trying to tell me that the old style comp was the only one that worked on the 07 Springer  . I don't think they know the difference between an 07 springer and the 09 springer  its all in the fine print if you read carefully

[skippy]

Got the Springer back from the dealer today SE Comp makes a big difference , it seems to shift smoother and all that chatter is going                                                                                                               

[480Ruger]

Anyone know about the new compensator that is coming out after the SE - 08A part number? 

[sadunbar]

Anyone know about the new compensator that is coming out after the SE - 08A part number? 

Have you read this thread?  There's quite a lot of discussion of the -08A compensator...

[480Ruger]

Yes and I just had the same -08A part replaced in my scooter which I stated above in this post.  I'm asking has anyone heard about the new compensator.  Maybe what would be the -08B or -09 rev.

[LarryB]

not a new compensator, just changing part numbers. so far no change

[Hugh Janis]

I have an 07 CUSE with 24k miles. This summer it's started to kick back when starting. After a pause of a second or two it always fires right up. From reading this thread and others it sounds like the compensator is beginning to fail. If that's the case, and I have it replaced will it be covered by the ESP and will the upgrade to the SE Comp be automatic? 

[SBB]

I have an 07 CUSE with 24k miles. This summer it's started to kick back when starting. After a pause of a second or two it always fires right up. From reading this thread and others it sounds like the compensator is beginning to fail. If that's the case, and I have it replaced will it be covered by the ESP and will the upgrade to the SE Comp be automatic?  

No!

But you should only have to pay your dealer the difference.

Good luck.

If you plan on keeping the bike it is worth the extra cost.

SBB

[hd-dude]

I have an 07 CUSE with 24k miles. This summer it's started to kick back when starting. After a pause of a second or two it always fires right up. From reading this thread and others it sounds like the compensator is beginning to fail. If that's the case, and I have it replaced will it be covered by the ESP and will the upgrade to the SE Comp be automatic? 

The non se style of comp assembly has been discontinued and is no longer available. It has superceeded to the se version so yes you will get the upgrade for free.

[LarryB]

Jim. the "old" style is still available because the SE version only works on 06+ Dyna's, 07+ softails, & 07-10 touring ( standard beyond that). they call it the rotor spring assembly.
whether its factory warranty or esp, the customer can be charge the difference, about 140.00.
some dealers will let not even tell you that you can upgrade

[Hugh Janis]

Sorry Larry, I like HD-DUDE's response better. What's your advice on how to handle this conversation with rhe servicing dealer?  I take it there in November every year for storage and service. I have the ESP for 2 more years. Should I insist on starter and clutch also?

[Trapperdog]

Sorry Larry, I like HD-DUDE's response better. What's your advice on how to handle this conversation with rhe servicing dealer?  I take it there in November every year for storage and service. I have the ESP for 2 more years. Should I insist on starter and clutch also?

More about the "starter clutch" than the starter and clutch. They probably won't replace it unless its starting to go. However, they should check the clutch plates, etc., and clutch basket "hub" for wear as a few of us have striped (partially or totally) ours out. They should also check the inner bearing and see if it is walking. Replace it with a 1 piece Baker if it is.

[hd-dude]

Jim. the "old" style is still available because the SE version only works on 06+ Dyna's, 07+ softails, & 07-10 touring ( standard beyond that). they call it the rotor spring assembly.
whether its factory warranty or esp, the customer can be charge the difference, about 140.00.
some dealers will let not even tell you that you can upgrade

The compensator assembly part number 40296-06A is discontinued and pending obsolete. The replacement is the SE unit part number 40274-08A. We have done two of these in the last month on the ESP with only the $50 deductable to the customer.

[JCZ]

Sorry Larry, I like HD-DUDE's response better. What's your advice on how to handle this conversation with rhe servicing dealer?  I take it there in November every year for storage and service. I have the ESP for 2 more years. Should I insist on starter and clutch also?

Find one that's honest with you up front or find an independant that is.

Roger has pointed out other issues that also need to be checked at the same time.  I know that a number of us here in Nor Cal had the whole clutch basket, clutch plates and all go at the same time.  We all use an independant and he always shows us our parts (actually, he trys to give us our parts to lighten his trash load  ) so there's no secrets.....you know first hand.   It's just a whole lot different when you can talk face to face with the person doing the work vs. talking face to face with a service writer.

[Boatman]

It's just a whole lot different when you can talk face to face with the person doing the work vs. talking face to face with a service writer.

 

[Hugh Janis]

All good advice guys. Thanks again. I think I'm in the infancy of a failure. Its unlikely I'll do more than 500 more miles before it goes to the dealer for service and storage during the winter.

[Hugh Janis]

This is odd.......  They took it apart and there was damage to the clutch basket and the starter clutch but said there was nothing wrong with the compensator.  I told them I didn't want them to put the old compensator back in and to upgrade it to the SE.  The part is $249 minus 15% and I paid the $50 ESP copay.  Now I'm looking forward to riding it to see the difference.  I was disappointed that the comp sprocket wasn't covered but all in all it wasn't horribly expensive to upgrade it.

[lilcoot]

I've been using the BDL CS-34a compensator for 15,000 miles on my '13 Ultra FLHTCUSE8, and it works great. 

After only 5000 miles on my '13 Ultra, my compensator was shot.  It would clunk when starting and shutting down.  Every time I opened or closed the throttle, there were driveline lash/rattles and clunks, and it sounded and felt like the driveline was falling apart.  It really was affecting the enjoyment of riding, and I knew from my previous bike (replaced 2 compensators in 20,000 miles) it was the compensator again.

Instead of putting in another POS Harley comp, I found BDL, and decided to try their comp.  Installation was a breeze.  The unit was much lighter and simpler than the Harley unit, and it appeared to be very robust.  And, it was significantly cheaper than the HD compensator.  After I installed it, the difference was amazing, and it has been working like a charm since.  The clunking and sloppiness disappeared and the driveline has been consistently smooth and quiet for 15,000 miles.  I can't say empirically that the driveline is tighter and functioning better, but it sure as hell feels and sounds better.  And so far, it has lasted longer than any compensator I've had on my last two bikes.

Until Harley redesigns their compensator, I think it is a waste of time to throw money away buying their current lousy compensator design.  The BDL CS-34a is a much better alternative, IMO.

Dan

[lilcoot]

This is what my Dimple magnetic drain plug looked like with the stock HD compensator:

[lilcoot]

With the BDL compensator:

[lilcoot]

I know that the biggest concern about not using the stock Harley compensator is the crankshaft.  Some very knowledgeable guys here have pointed out that the stock crankshaft is not as durable as it needs to be, and the whole point of the compensator is to be a sacrificial piece to prevent the crank from scissoring due to excess torque.  Basically, the compensators are supposed to wear out in order to protect the crankshaft, and having to replace them is the price we have to pay to ride a 110 inch Harley.  They have a very good point. 

I found the following article that explained why the crank may not be the issue, after all:


http://www.thunderpress.net/editorial/columnists/motorhead-memo-getting-cranky/2013/08/21.htm


This article basically says that the stock HD crankshafts are actually pretty good, strong designs, and the increased allowances for crank runout are not due to decreased quality standards.  The higher allowances for runout are actually part of the design that eliminated the outer cam plate bearing and allows for the crank to flex (at least that's my understanding... I may be mistaken).

The crankshafts will still benefit from welding and truing, especially in highly modified motors, but the real culprit for the crankshaft failures is the ratcheting primary chain tensioner, not the poor quality of the cranks.  Those tensioners often ratchet up so tightly that the crank is stressed, and they get locked in that position.  This may be what causes all the crank failures, not the compensator. 

The answer is to get rid of that poorly designed tensioner and replace it with something like the Hayden M6 tensioner.  I think it's a smart idea to replace the HD primary chain tensioner at the first primary fluid change.  Then using a compensator like the BDL CS-34a shouldn't be any more likely to cause crank failure than the stock compensator.

If I ever get another Harley with the current compensator design, I won't hesitate to replace it with a BDL compensator (and the Hayden tensioner).  It has made a huge difference in the driveline noise from the crappy HD comp, and it has already lasted 2-3 times longer than the stock HD comps on my bikes.  I'm curious to see how long it actually lasts.

Thoughts and opinions?

Dan

 

[JCZ]

Dan I believe I've read elsewhere on this forum that you've gone through several comps in a few miles.  What mods do you have done to your motor?

Just curious.

28k miles on my 13 CVO Ultra Classic and I just had Jim change the lifters as preventative measure but no comp issues.  Now I sure hope I didn't just jinx myself.

[willyB]

Where can I find descriptive information on the BDL design?

BDL's website doesn't show or say anything but a picture.

[JCZ]

Here's their FAQs page.....   http://beltdrives.com/tech-tips-and-faqs

Don't really see anything that has a more specific descriptitve information....might want to contact them directly.

[VANAMAL]

im on #3 but the last one was the improved one with the oil tray. Seems fine now. Easy to change but they cost a bunch.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Here is the reference on BDL's website to "Chain Compensators".

http://beltdrives.com/products/chain-drive-compensators

The first two just look like a solid sprocket and the third one is patented and "may" have some sort of spring effect.

[lilcoot]

Here is the reference on BDL's website to "Chain Compensators".

http://beltdrives.com/products/chain-drive-compensators

The first two just look like a solid sprocket and the third one is patented and "may" have some sort of spring effect.

Dan, the CS-34a has two teflon spacers that are compressed when torque is high enough, and the compressor screws down tighter.  When torque is applied in the opposite direction (deceleration), the comp unscrews, releasing the spacers.  I truly have no idea how much protection this offers, because I don't know how much torque is required to compress the spacers. 

As far as longevity, all I can say is what the tech at BDL told me, which you can take with a grain of salt.  They've been selling these comps for 5-6 years, and he says that they sell very few replacement spacers.  He has been using their comp for 5 years on his Harley, and hasn't had any issues.  Unfortunately, this is all anecdotal.  I wish they had some empirical evidence to support their claims.

I wish some of the experts here (Fullsac?  Metal Dragon?) would do some testing with these!

Dan

[lilcoot]

Hey, JC,

On the '12 Street Glide, the first comp was bad at about 5000 miles.  At that point, just a pipe and fuel controller.  At that time, Jim at Metal Dragon installed cams and a 30t front sprocket.  The next compensator was shot and replaced at about 12,00 miles, when I put in a 113 kit.  I traded in the Street Glide at 20k, and the compensator was bad again.

On the new Ultra, by 5000 miles the compensator was clunking worse than I've ever seen, so I decided to try the BDL.  So far, I'm at 20,000 miles, and it's working perfectly.  That's 15,000 miles, which is a record for me with compensators!

I'd also like to know why I'm so hard on compensators.  I drove aggressively with the SG, but I've been babying the Ultra, and it hasn't made any difference.  I do an awful lot of riding in the mountains - Big Bear, Idyllwild, the Angeles Crest - and I'm wondering if that's the problem?  But I'm just cruising like an old man, not tearing up the roads...

Dan

[hrdtail78]

http://www.bikernet.com/pages/BIKERNET_THURSDAY_NEWS_FOR_JULY_1ST.aspx

About halfway down there is a better pic that shows the threads.

[tennisman]

I've got a 2008 with 124,000 miles; I've gone thru 4 comps, the latest with the "improved" lube method with the glue-on plastic thingy.  It clunks when shut off but starting is fine (starting is when I've had issues before - grinding, etc.).  This one now has 22,000 miles and still going okay.  I don't understand why HD has had some many comp issues.  My Kaw I had, 125 cube motor, never had a comp issue and was going strong when I sold it at 75k to buy a new Indian (which, at 20,000) has no comp issues.

[BigLew]

Wish I hadn't seen this thread. As soon I read it mine started clunking again. I cant get one to last 5,000 miles. And yes its modified, 124 with a procharger. But I don't ride it very hard. No burnouts and such. But I'm sick of this, the "new" SE part didn't last any longer than the rest. Not sure what I'm going to do now.

BigLew

[Rooster]

Just don't try the Evo Industries unit as it's just a gear with no comp assembly. Yes the dealer tried that back when my 07 comp failed. Fine through town but 50 and above put my arms and legs to sleep quickly. So end result was install the first redo of the comp and no more vibs.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Just don't try the Evo Industries unit as it's just a gear with no comp assembly. Yes the dealer tried that back when my 07 comp failed. Fine through town but 50 and above put my arms and legs to sleep quickly. So end result was install the first redo of the comp and no more vibs.

PM sent

[Rooster]

Pm sent back to you.

[Cvostu]

Is that clunk on cold start up?   That is when my cluck is the loudest.     

[BigLew]

Usually but not always. I'm thinking about changing the chain tensioner as well.

BigLew

[RayG]

I'm with BigLew,  my first compensator went 41,400 miles, that was the stock unit in the 08 SERK.  The rest of the primary was junk due to all the metal circulating in there, even the clutch hub was toast.  I rode that bike hard in those days but issues were minor, when I broke a belt on July 4Th a few years ago I decided to stop the burnouts, wheelies and fast starts.

Compensators were continually failing, when I had the S&S 124 installed the compensators still continued to fail.  Today I'm on my 6Th compensator!  2 were on warranty but I had to install all but one of them.  The current one has 4,500 miles on it and still sounds OK but we all know they can fail fast.  At this point why spend more money on other items when the compensator has become a disposable item, similar to a rear tire.  Since I like to ride hard when I can my rear tires last between 4,500 & 5,500 add a few more thousand miles and I have to put in another compensator.  Obviously this is far more complicated for Harley than some us are lead to believe because of all the revisions.  The fact is most companies would be embarrassed about this issue.   I have a procedure and a plan to try to make theses last longer but that will be for another time.   I'll start a new post called "Ideas on How to make the Compensator Last"

[BigLew]

Boy Ray do I ever understand. I on the other hand don't ride that hard. But because of the extra power and the procharger I don't even have an option on another brand of compensator. Frank (Drago) was telling me that procharger send Baker a PTO unit to see if they could come up with a fix. I also read that I need to get rid of the SE chain tensioner. That it keeps the primary chain too tight. Maybe go to the manual adjustment part?

BigLew

[RayG]

BigLew,

I'm not sure there is a better aftermarket compensator on the market yet, but I do know that what ever is used will require better oil flow to the compensator.  The Compensaver that Steve @ GMR makes is very popular on another Forum with lots of guys running it in their S&S 124's and larger motors.  I agree with going back to the original manual chain tensioner and if you are worried about it ratcheting to tight you can weld it where it's supposed to be in spec.   I tried the Hayden but it didn't hold up to the 124.  Hopefully this issue will be solved shortly but we have all been waiting for a solution for some time now.  Like I said before it prevents me from making any purchases for the bike knowing that this could go and take some casualties as well. 

Lets hope a solution will be available soon.

[lilcoot]

Is that clunk on cold start up?   That is when my cluck is the loudest.     

Stu, The clunks happened sporadically on start up and shut down;  wouldn't happen every time, but kept getting worse, and it didn't matter if it was hot or cold. What really started bothering me was the driveline "slop".  It was like having a loose, rattly chain on one of those old 10 speed bikes, but louder and more embarrassing.  Rolling the throttle off and on while traveling at speed or on hills sounded like something metal was loose and about to fall off. 

Using the BDL compensator has pretty much eliminated all of that.

Dan

[lilcoot]

BigLew,

I'm not sure there is a better aftermarket compensator on the market yet, but I do know that what ever is used will require better oil flow to the compensator.  The Compensaver that Steve @ GMR makes is very popular on another Forum with lots of guys running it in their S&S 124's and larger motors.  I agree with going back to the original manual chain tensioner and if you are worried about it ratcheting to tight you can weld it where it's supposed to be in spec.   I tried the Hayden but it didn't hold up to the 124.  Hopefully this issue will be solved shortly but we have all been waiting for a solution for some time now.  Like I said before it prevents me from making any purchases for the bike knowing that this could go and take some casualties as well. 

Lets hope a solution will be available soon.


Why don't you try the BDL?  The big reason people here don't want to try the BDL is because of the supposedly fragile stock HD crankshaft, which isn't an issue with the S&S 124.  So far it's been a very good replacement for me.

I have no ulterior motive for giving the BDL comp a positive review, except that I'm very happy with it so far.  And I'd really like to hear feedback from others who've tried it.

Dan

[RayG]

lilcoot,

If this compensator fails as quickly as the others I will seriously consider the BDL.  You are right on the S&S having a more robust crankshaft.  How many miles do you have on the BDL you are running now?  Did you do any other changes in the primary such as a different chain adjuster?  Hope your problems are solved and thanks for your input on the BDL.  Like it or not a good majority of us will require a compensator or two.  Any info is really helpful.

Thanks 

[Cvostu]

I was thinking that the starter could be it,,,   I switched it for a new one,,,   I think mine was getting tired as well.   I talked to the dealer and I was told that the new and improved compensator should do it,,   I left the bike at the dealer today,,,  I might be able to get it covered under the extended service plan.  I'll see how it goes,,,Stuart

[lilcoot]

Ray,

I've had the BDL in for 15,000 miles.  So far, so good.  I also use the Hayden chain tensioner.

Big Lew and tennisman both mentioned that the new SE comp still has problems.  That's disappointing to hear.

[BigLew]

My problem so I hear is that since I have the procharger nothing else will work but the SE part. A little bird told me that Baker is working on a fix?? I also heard that the SE manual tensioner is the way to go. DOn't know much about the Hayden piece but the current SE upgrade keeps the chain to tight?

BigLew

[RayG]

There has to be at least 3 well known companies working on compensator replacements.  I have the latest HD SE revision (4,800 miles) but when I installed it I didn't see anything that would indicated the problem was solved.  The amount of wear and galling on the sprocket & hub as well as the tight spaces tell me it needs additional lubrication and a better overall product consisting of better materials and a better design.  I have seen photos of the Primo Rivera product which can drop the front sprocket down in teeth along with a shorter chain and an overlay over the tensioner shoe.  This seems to be widely used by some members of the HTT Forum.  I have all winter for someone to come up with a solution.  I'm sure there are plenty of readers on all the forums that have wondered just how much effort and money will it take to put a primary together that will hold up to some semi aggressive riding for long periods of time.  many fail on owners that do not ride hard.  One of the problems is the Moco not taking this serious because they don't really have to, the other is we are pushing more HP & TQ on a complete system that was not designed to handle the power increase without allot of maintenance.  I have already done the 30 tooth sprocket a long time ago but I had hoped the S&S 124 with the 640 cams would have pushed more to the left on the HP &TQ,  I wanted the 585's and I thought I was getting the 585's but I ended up with the 640's so with that said dropping the gearing might just be what I need.     

[FlaHeatWave]

My 2 cents...

For those of you that have seen my Build Thread  http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=91650.0  you know that longevity / minimal pms in a "Sport Touring" platform were the primary goals...

After 24k mi. on the Build (44k on all components in the Primary except the Compensator) with no issues;

Auto Chain Tensioner; after speaking with some Reputable Builders, reading between the lines on some Forums, and knowing some Buds that have had issues with the Aftermarket offerings, I decided to retain the stock auto tensioner, with some minor adjustments to my riding style. Since the play in the Primary Chain is measured (more slack when)cold, I don't give any aggressive throttle, and more importantly, no engine braking until the drivetrain is up to full operating temperature, thinking the operating temperature is key here, as the chain slack is taken up thermally and the auto tensioner will not ratchet up to (over) adjust the chain too tight. When winding through the gears at the limiter, I will upshift when slowing, instead of just chopping the throttle at higher RPMs. No real aggressive downshifting,  using a combination of (mild) engine braking / brakes to slow the bike in all conditions, (after reaching full operating temp). No Lugging, ever. No "riding the cams" at lower RPMs (I love the way the bike sounds, but the chain slap can't be good)
Upon inspections at around 10k and 20k, the Primary Chain remains properly adjusted (not too tight).

Compensator; 'had the 2013 "generation" Comp installed at Build time, the OE Comp was fine at 20k, but since we were going through the whole bike, I was trying to get a free upgrade to the Rushmore Comp out of the GM at my Dealer, since the OE Comp was good, the best I could get out of him was "I have one of the last generation Comps (the one before the Rushmore, without the oiling tray), nib that I'll throw in there for you". My thoughts are pretty much the same as above, full operating temperature being key, I feel that lugging and aggressive downshifting, (aggressive engine braking) over tightening of the Primary Chain, greatly contribute to premature wear / failure of the Compensators...

Granted, I don't do burnouts, or clutch the bike to wheelie, but I will take her through the gears upshifting WOT on the limiter at least once every ride...

I run HD Formula+ in the Primary.

Big Lew, other than altering my riding style as above, I don't have much for you, as I don't know how the loading of the Procharger affects the Primary    I do think that the oiling trays (GMR Compensaver and HD's newest style Rushmore) have merit, and will go in that direction when the Comp in my '09 craps out. Steve at GMR seems to be working on the Comps with different spring / shim set-ups, he might have a recommendation for that Monster of yours...   

JMHO, your results may vary...

[BigLew]

I thinks that's worth more than $.02.

BigLew

[FlaHeatWave]

I thinks that's worth more than $.02.

BigLew

Can I get a $.03 ?? lol

[BigLew]

Maybe a Miller Lite!

BigLew