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[timtoolman]

Soooo what did the independent mechanic do wrong??? that caused the whole problem that the dealer covered under warranty??  don't be so sure he wont win the law suit.  Can you prove the damage was done by him and him alone with no doubts  . a counter suit may follow to you for defamation/slander especially since dealer covered it under warranty, Because a sharp lawyer would  get a affidavit from another dealer saying if the was damage done by another unauthorized  mechanic beyond a doubt  the other dealer wouldn't have covered the repair?.  just something to think about before jumping

[copout221]

Soooo what did the independent mechanic do wrong??? that caused the whole problem that the dealer covered under warranty??  don't be so sure he wont win the law suit.  Can you prove the damage was done by him and him alone with no doubts  . a counter suit may follow to you for defamation/slander especially since dealer covered it under warranty, Because a sharp lawyer would  get a affidavit from another dealer saying if the was damage done by another unauthorized  mechanic beyond a doubt  the other dealer wouldn't have covered the repair?.  just something to think about before jumping

Well here are some of my points:

1. The bike ran perfectly before dropping it off at the private mechanics house.

2. The work that was done can easily be tied to the damaged transmission case. It's not like the gauges stopped working after a trans sprocket was changed.

3. Two HD mechanics assured me that the damage could have easily been caused by improper removal of the sprocket nut. They are willing to appear on my behalf if needed.

4. The private guy admitted that the damage was most likely his fault. He even called me on the 2nd day of having it and said he could NOT get the sprocket nut off and had to "Force the s**t" out of it after borrowing a special tool  (Updated mainshaft locknut wrench tool HD-47910).

5. The transmission damage was apparent IMMEDIATELY after the sprocket change. It's not like the bike ran perfectly for 200 miles and then the case broke.

6. ESP covered the damage thanks to the dealer helping me out. At first they did not attribute the broken dipstick to the sprocket swap but after they discovered the broken transmission case while removing the drive gear they said there was no doubt that the damage was due to carless / improper removal of the sprocket nut.

[copout221]

I am sure Duane wanted to put this away forever, but he was kind enough to share his pain when he installed the Baker DDS6.

bent tools and all

This is EXACTLY what happened to my trans case. My guess is he was trying to remove the nut thinking it was a LH thread 

[djkak]

This is EXACTLY what happened to my trans case. My guess is he was trying to remove the nut thinking it was a LH thread 

On this end of the ether, it looks a lot like something else was going on. The photos of Duane’s transmission give us some idea of the thrust force necessary to fracture this shoulder on a 5-speed transmission housing. The force was substantial enough to put a serious bend in a piece of 5/8” steel plate. When the housing snapped, the main drive gear struck the plate hard enough to leave gear tooth imprints in it.

I’m thinkin’ that it would be pretty tough to pull this off with a Binford 1” drive Torque Master Socket Set. I can visualize the torque, but I’m strugglin’ to understand the thrust.

Regarding the broken dipstick, if you try to remove the 6-speed gear set without first removing the dipstick, you will break the dipstick. Hard to say what really happened here.  There is no need to pull the gear set to replace the drive sprocket. Either way, this would have been some big fun to watch, I’m sure!


Click on the photo to view it actual size.

[copout221]

The broken dipstick was discovered BEFORE they pulled the gearset so that was not how it broke. The gear set DOES have to be pulled to remove the drive gear, that is how they discovered the broken case. The private mechanic NEVER removed the gear set while doing the sprocket change. He just managed to crack the trans case.

I received a full refund from the mechanic yesterday so this matter is now closed. He reimbursed me for all of the labor i paid him for the sprocket and belt install, the tow fees, and the ESP co pay. He has apologized several times and there is no need to beat a dead horse. I learned a valuable lesson and will be more careful in the future.

[MAT]

The broken dipstick was discovered BEFORE they pulled the gearset so that was not how it broke. The gear set DOES have to be pulled to remove the drive gear, that is how they discovered the broken case. The private mechanic NEVER removed the gear set while doing the sprocket change. He just managed to crack the trans case.

I received a full refund from the mechanic yesterday so this matter is now closed. He reimbursed me for all of the labor i paid him for the sprocket and belt install, the tow fees, and the ESP co pay. He has apologized several times and there is no need to beat a dead horse. I learned a valuable lesson and will be more careful in the future.

Very good news, glad that part worked out good!   

[Twolanerider]

There is no need to pull the gear set to replace the drive sprocket.

The gear set DOES have to be pulled to remove the drive gear

Main gear versus sprocket.  

[Dan_Lockwood]

I know that this issue is dead now, but I do have a question about this breakage issue.

Maybe I don't know all the in's and out's of the mainshaft in the tranny, but most transmissions are set up so there is a certain amount of end play or preload on the shaft and bearing.  This is true for all types of transmissions.

When the output drive belt drive sprocket is pushed onto the spline of the output shaft of the transmission, it has to bottom up against something and stop; a should on the shaft or a spacer that goes into the transmission and hits a gear machined on the shaft itself.  Something stops and aligns the belt drive sprocket for proper alignment...

The only use for LH or RH threaded nuts is to work against rotation of a particular shaft to combat possible vibrational loosening of the nut.

So whether LH or RH, if you over torqued the nut when tightening it or trying to loosen the nut but turning it the wrong way, this would only put a twisting load on the shaft itself or any holding tool/fixture to hold the sprocket firm while removing the nut.

My question is this:  How does turning the nut the wrong direction pull outward on the main shaft enough to pull the bearing through the side and breaking the case as in the pictures in this thread?

[djkak]

I know that this issue is dead now, but I do have a question about this breakage issue.

Maybe I don't know all the in's and out's of the mainshaft in the tranny, but most transmissions are set up so there is a certain amount of end play or preload on the shaft and bearing.  This is true for all types of transmissions.

When the output drive belt drive sprocket is pushed onto the spline of the output shaft of the transmission, it has to bottom up against something and stop; a should on the shaft or a spacer that goes into the transmission and hits a gear machined on the shaft itself.  Something stops and aligns the belt drive sprocket for proper alignment...

The only use for LH or RH threaded nuts is to work against rotation of a particular shaft to combat possible vibrational loosening of the nut.

So whether LH or RH, if you over torqued the nut when tightening it or trying to loosen the nut but turning it the wrong way, this would only put a twisting load on the shaft itself or any holding tool/fixture to hold the sprocket firm while removing the nut.

My question is this:  How does turning the nut the wrong direction pull outward on the main shaft enough to pull the bearing through the side and breaking the case as in the pictures in this thread?

The components are the Mainshaft, which the clutch is fastened to and the Main Drive Gear, which the transmission final drive Belt Sprocket is fastened to.

The Mainshaft, Main Drive Gear and Countershaft, are all mounted in ball bearings which control the non adjustable endplay of these components.

The alignment of the transmission’s belt sprocket is controlled by a large spacer that fits between the Belt Sprocket and Main Drive Gear ball bearing.

All of this background is somewhat irrelevant to the question, though; increasing the torque of the nut securing the Belt Sprocket to the Main Drive Gear, beyond the fastener’s capacity, will simply pull the threads on the nut, the Main Drive Gear or both.

Look at the pictures again; in order to break the transmission housing in this manner, the Main Drive Gear must thrust horizontally to the right, and with extreme force. If it was possible for the Belt Sprocket fastener to continue drawing the sprocket and MDG together, the MDG would be pulled to the left, not the right.

FWIW, copout’s issue has been put to bed, but my interest in this thread is not with who did what and when, but to offer a little pushback to the assertion that applying excessive torque to the Belt Sprocket fastener will break the transmission housing as pictured; from that perspective this thing is just getting started.

[sadunbar]

The components are the Mainshaft, which the clutch is fastened to and the Main Drive Gear, which the transmission final drive Belt Sprocket is fastened to.

The Mainshaft, Main Drive Gear and Countershaft, are all mounted in ball bearings which control the non adjustable endplay of these components.

The alignment of the transmission’s belt sprocket is controlled by a large spacer that fits between the Belt Sprocket and Main Drive Gear ball bearing.

All of this background is somewhat irrelevant to the question, though; increasing the torque of the nut securing the Belt Sprocket to the Main Drive Gear, beyond the fastener’s capacity, will simply pull the threads on the nut, the Main Drive Gear or both.

Look at the pictures again; in order to break the transmission housing in this manner, the Main Drive Gear must thrust horizontally to the right, and with extreme force. If it was possible for the Belt Sprocket fastener to continue drawing the sprocket and MDG together, the MDG would be pulled to the left, not the right.

FWIW, copout’s issue has been put to bed, but my interest in this thread is not with who did what and when, but to offer a little pushback to the assertion that applying excessive torque to the Belt Sprocket fastener will break the transmission housing as pictured; from that perspective this thing is just getting started.

Of course, DJkak is correct...  More had to have transpired than is known.   



That being said, I am glad that copout's issue is fully resolved to his satisfaction.

[porthole]

Don,

Do you think Duane might see this post?

He might 

Discussions I had with a fairly reputable indy that some here might know, I believe the failure on my case was excessive friction between the bearing and the shaft.
I think it may even have had red loctite on the shaft.

When pressing the shaft out with the pictured tools you are using the bearing, while seated in the case, as a support. So all the pressure on the shaft is transmitted from shaft - to inner race - to bearings - to outer race - to case land.

There is not enough meat in the case to support this kind of pressure. The trick seems to be to heat up the bearing first, to help the bearing separate form the shaft.