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[grc]

Well, I rode the machine over to the dealer yesterday (noisy and clattering and the "new" service manager was the nicest service manager I've ever met! It was his first day on the job after coming from the automotive industry. Within a minute his top tech came out and started the bike. He shut it off right away. After a little conversation/debate about the problem the tech was so sure the it was the tensioner sitting between adjustment notches that he bet me lunch. I told him that if it was truly the tensioner I would buy him and the service manager lunch.

He took the bike in the shop and asked me to come along. He quickly pulled the primary cover off and described in detail how the tensioner operates. He then took the end of a screw driver handle and tapped the tensioner fairly hard. That's it! He even showed me where the slacked chain was hitting the inside of the primary cover. He put the cover on and filled the primary. He started it up and the noise was gone. He said he sees this normally at around 5,000 miles but has seen it as far as 15,000 miles.

I asked him if I should change to an adjustable tensioner and he said no, the auto adjusters are great and that the only issue he has seen are issue related to its first slack adjustment.

These were two top notch Harley service folks to buy lunch for.

So let me see if I've got this right.  The tensioner did not self adjust (which is what a self adjusting tensioner is supposed to do, correct?), but rather than replace it the customer should take it in so a tech can whack it with a screwdriver and proclaim it fixed?  Isn't that kind of like fixing your TV by smacking it with the palm of your hand? 

If this is a widespread problem, then obviously H-D still hasn't got the design right (they are currently on the -B revision level).  Smacking stuff with a screwdriver or hammer or anything else is not a valid answer.  What next, use a ball peen hammer if the lifters start making noise?


Jerry

[willyB]

Jerry,

I hear ya!

I was a little unconvinced until I sat at lunch with the tech and listened to him describe why and how often this occurs. He said since the new tensioners came out he has only come across 2 or 3 instances. He said when he ran into it the first time he spent about 40 hours disassembling and re-assembling the primary assembly before he found the problem. He said he reported this to Mother HD in some detail.

I should say the "whack" wasn't like punching someone in the jaw. I was probably a little agressive on the description. Tap/Knock is really more correct.

Granted the device should not need to be tweaked but it basically seemed to amount to the chain stretching to a point where it was not quite enough for the mechanism to self adjust.

I'm generally not easily convinced on engineering issues but I think this tech has quite carefully defined a resolution to a not too common issue. He said he has never seen anyone of them come back. I've seen this guy around the HD shops in town for probably 10-15 years and from what I hear he is one of the best in town.

I guess for now I trust this techs opinion. He really seemed to know his stuff. I didn't ask him but he sounded like he had an engineering degree.

[gmills]

I've seen too many of them adjust and make the chain as tight as a piano string. Not good for the bearings or the chain.
this is my next project real soon as soon as I can find someone with an edm maching to cut the slot. Not my invention but  taken (borrowed) from another site

[lammgrel]

Very Useful thread.  My 2012 FLHXSE3 has been making noise similar to the description here, clattering with the clutch disengaged, noticeable when engine is hot.  I took it to the local dealer once and of course it didn't make any noise when I got it there.  After a ~70 mile ride this week it was clattering quite noticeably when I got it home.  I've only got about 470 miles on it.

[Aussie]

Very Useful thread.  My 2012 FLHXSE3 has been making noise similar to the description here, clattering with the clutch disengaged, noticeable when engine is hot.  I took it to the local dealer once and of course it didn't make any noise when I got it there.  After a ~70 mile ride this week it was clattering quite noticeably when I got it home.  I've only got about 470 miles on it.

I had the same with my 08 Fatboy Custom, rattle in the primary, had we worried for a little while, so went to a dealer and explained what was going on, he got his stethascope out and had a listen and said sounds alright but would hurt to have a look at whats going on, also told me to twist the throttle (ride a bit harder) a bit so the tensioner would take up slack when primary chain is under load. Quietened it down a little.

Got a 2012 SG as well and put it in first gear, gear clunked in really hard and then I had a rattle sound in the primary when in neutral, pull clutch in and no rattle, so I went for a ride and nothing unusual, all was OK, got home and wasn't as bad although still a little rattle.
So I am thinking along the same lines it is the chain tension causing the rattle.

[Fxr4Rider]

So I have to ask? Is this "neutral rattle" something to be concerned about?

I finally got out today and put the first 35 miles on the odometer.

This rattle freaked me out!

Same deal :  hot and in neutral, it like a bunch of marbles flopping around. Pull in the clutch and no noise.

Should I be concerned? Or give it a few hundred miles?

[Fxr4Rider]

So I have to ask? Is this "neutral rattle" something to be concerned about?

I finally got out today and put the first 35 miles on the odometer.

This rattle freaked me out!

Same deal :  hot and in neutral, it like a bunch of marbles flopping around. Pull in the clutch and no noise.

Should I be concerned? Or give it a few hundred miles?

I think I may have answered my own question. It is a self adjusting tensioner. And we have to keep the the rpms low and not drive it like it stole for the first 50 miles. I may have hit the panic button to soon.
I will sit down be patient and not panic next time. I just hope the rattle settles down!

[dlaws01]

What would you consider normal? And how much in relationship to the amount of fine particles stuck to the magnetic plug?
After a few fluid changes the magnetic plug, shouldn't it be almost clean.

Normal would be any size particle that is too small to have a part number on it.   

[moscooter]

 
You provide an answer to a (problem) and it seems to escape many with the problem.

 

[sadunbar]

Harley issued an official explanation of why primary's now rattle....

It's normal...   




see attached pdf...

[Smitty2u]

Harley issued an official explanation of why primary's now rattle....

It's normal...   




see attached pdf...

If that's not an effort to dodge responsibility, I don't know what is....

[grc]

If that's not an effort to dodge responsibility, I don't know what is....

They are more famous than most for claiming everything is "normal".  The biggest problem in my mind is how they and their dealers use that term for so many things they lose all credibility.  They get away with it for something that is in fact OK, so they take advantage and use it every time they don't know how to fix it or don't want to spend a buck to fix it or just prefer to blow folks off for whatever reason.  It's like the little guy constantly crying wolf.  Pretty soon knowledgeable folks stop believing anything they say.

The problem could be fixed with tighter tolerances.  Tighter tolerances cost money when you don't have great process controls and inherently accurate processes to begin with.  So obviously they are taking the easy and cheap approach versus spending some money to eliminate a customer irritant.  Not exactly customer driven, but there again people keep accepting this sort of thing and buying another one, so who's to say Harley is wrong?


Jerry

[dlaws01]

Well, it's finally happened to me. At just over 14K on the speedo and I'm hearing a noise from the primary on start up.  Sounds almost like the tensioner is too loose and that I can hear the chain sliding across it or something. It's not a metallic or pinging sound as some here have described and it seems to diminish as it get warmer and will disappear altogether when I engage the clutch. Can't hear it when in gear, only when stopped and in neutral.  I've always kinda babied it and have rarely seen tach over 3500 rpm. I had read here that maybe if I "got on it" and wound it out some that it might ratchet up the tensioner and help so I tried that out.  When I am in any gear running at approximately 2500 rpm and throttle it quickly to 3000-3300 rpm, I'm hearing a squealing or chirping type noise that last only for a couple of seconds then goes away, like it's only happening under a load.  I haven't drained the primary oil yet to see if I have any metal or other particles in there.  I've got the extended service plan but I'm really reluctant to let the local bozos at the dealer open it up yet.  I'm sad.    Any ideas?

[dlaws01]

Bike in shop at dealer.  I'm at the mercy of who knows what?  I'll post what the outcome is when I find out.  No matter which way, on warranty or my dime, it's coming out of the shop with the SE comp.  Now if you don't mind, I'm going to have a drink.   

[dlaws01]

When I dropped my bike off at the dealer, the service writer started it and agreed that there was some unusual sounds coming from the primary side.  Today when I called to check on their progress I'm told . . . ( now I know that most of you guys already know what I was told )  . . . that the tech has listened to it and ridden it and everything is NORMAL!  He tried to tell me that these 110's all make that noise and it wasn't unusual at all.  I asked them if they didn't find it "unusual" that it didn't make this noise for over 14K miles and just started doing it? So far, they have done nothing at all but listen to it! Nobody has removed the outer primary and looked at anything!  I'm really frustrated and PO'd that I cannot get proper service performed on my bike. This is the same dealer I bought it from new in 08.  Does anybody know of any recourse that can be taken when the dealer refuses to acknowledge there is a problem, other than getting a lawyer?