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Author Topic: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed  (Read 24767 times)

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04cvodan

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2012, 05:22:05 PM »

I bought the Bike in March and had "my Buddy" do the oil change thinking he knew what he was doing, He works on metric and was in need of some money so i thought that he would know that unlike Honda the trans has it own oil so i don't think he changed it and it burned up, no drips in the garage, Anyway today's up date, HD gave me two prices $3400 for a five speed installed and $4200 for a six speed installed. Still need to check on the Ebay Baker DD6 $2495, with free install so 1st question what eles will i need to order because if i go up to Daytona ( about 4 hours north)
I can't get delayed? grrrrrrr sometimes I'm to stupid to be this old
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Twolanerider

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2012, 05:34:45 PM »

I bought the Bike in March and had "my Buddy" do the oil change thinking he knew what he was doing, He works on metric and was in need of some money so i thought that he would know that unlike Honda the trans has it own oil so i don't think he changed it and it burned up, no drips in the garage, Anyway today's up date, HD gave me two prices $3400 for a five speed installed and $4200 for a six speed installed. Still need to check on the Ebay Baker DD6 $2495, with free install so 1st question what eles will i need to order because if i go up to Daytona ( about 4 hours north)
I can't get delayed? grrrrrrr sometimes I'm to stupid to be this old

Sorry but the tranny wouldn't "burn up" or otherwise fail just because it didn't get a fluid change.  The same grade gear oils work in automotive manual transmissions or third members for, all too often, tens if not hundreds of thousands of miles.  Our service intervals on the bikes are the result of an abundance of caution more than any real need when it comes to transmission fluid.  If the failure was in any related to the service he drained it and didn't refill.  Otherwise it "just broke."  It can happen.  It's up for the user to decide how likely that is in his own set of circumstances.
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04cvodan

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2012, 05:47:13 PM »

Well I would'nt call it burned up but fourth is make funky noise and sometimes third makes the noise to. Really did'nt effect preformance just a wicked noise
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grc

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2012, 08:03:16 PM »


I understand that you have two Harley dealers there that are both under the same ownership and management, so telling you to just go to another dealer isn't much help.  However, since I assume you have the ESP, were you aware that you don't have to go to the dealer for ESP service?  There are a lot of independent shops that are also authorized to perform ESP repairs.  If I were you, and thought there was even the most remote possibility that the dealership was trying to screw me over, I'd call the ESP company myself and ask them directly about coverage and a recommended shop.  The prices those guys are quoting you are ridiculous, btw. 


Jerry
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04cvodan

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2012, 08:25:17 PM »

Jerry is it me or is that just for the case and not the gears, and yes i have been grabbing my ankles when ever i talk with Naples HD
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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2012, 10:13:41 PM »


According to my source the bare housing is only around $400 ($397.49 MSRP) for the stock trans.  The complete trans I highlighted is the housing and the gear set already assembled.  You would reuse your sidecover and oil pan, and probably a few other pieces, but the big stuff is included in the trans assembly.  Of course, availability might be a little iffy, since it's not a current part.  I guess you could call a couple places and inquire.


Jerry
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mrmagloo

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2012, 01:26:23 AM »

Chit, I've got my stock 5spd gearset I'll sell reasonably. Where in the heck did these bozo's come up with that quote?  Must be related to the Rossmeyers?

I doubt there is anything wrong with the housing.
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Cvostu

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2012, 07:07:56 AM »

I have a 5 speed gear set from my 04 if anyone can use. I would sell it reasonably also.
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porthole

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2012, 10:06:20 AM »

Warranty Company saying neglect, so now HD saying 3400 out of the box just looking at my options. Can i just pull and replace or do i have to "open her up"?


I think my first action would to the warranty company - "prove I failed to maintain my trans"

You ran it with no oil for 5000 miles? It will have evidence of overheated components. Did the dealer measure the measly 20-24 ounces of fluid that comes out of the trans when you drain it?
And shame on your dealer for even raising a flag on this.

I think my first question though is, who is the warranty company? Is it the Harley program purchased from Harley through a dealer or is it an aftermarket program that the dealer is selling that has no affiliation with Harley?

Just some thoughts to ponder.
You could just have the trans rebuilt stock.
If you go with the SE 6 speed gear set there are mods done to he trans case that are irreversible, e.g. you have to grind away portions of the case that are needed for the stock gear set.
You will end up with a 6 speed that has no increased value for trade in (up to you if that is  important). That also means you end up with one of the many just about useless 5 speed gear sets that are laying around.
There are probably a couple dozen of us that have those 5 speed sets in our garage/basements.

If you go with the the Baker DD6 you always have the option of putting the stock 5 spd gear set back in if and when you go to trade in the bike (although not in your case unless you buy someone's used set). Then you will have the satisfaction that you are not losing on the trade but end up with a 6 speed gear set that you may never sell. Although, just as there will always be a market for older bikes, there will always be a market for parts. And in this case, my guess is that there is a potentially bigger market for a drop in 6 speed.

The Baker option also gives you the option of different comp sprockets sizes. You can go with the standard set which will keep your overall ratio (and 1st) close to what you have now, with the addition of a DD 6th you can drop the comp sprocket down 1 or 2 steps, effectively lowering (higher numerically) the overall ratio.

The DD6 will give you about a 400 rpm drop in 6th, 1 size down gives you about a 200 rpm drop and 2 steps gives about 0 rpm change in 6th.

After a year of using mine I dropped one size. The 200 rpm drop in 6th is nice but I like the overall ratio now better. It is better suited for the way I ride in the mountains. Prior to to the change I was constantly hunting for the right gear in the 2-3-4 range. After the drop I found I was much closer to the rpm range I wanted to be in to match my "comfort" speed.

But, back to the first question, who is the warranty company. And before you spend any money I would strongly suggest you research and read the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, literally an act of congress, that protects consumers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act

It is incumbent on the warranty company to prove you failed in maintenance, not the other way around. It is this same law the does not require you to use the services of a selling dealer or to even keep receipts of maintenance.


Been there and done all that, on both sides of the equation.

And don't worry about pissing off the dealer, sounds like you should be looking for a new dealer anyway.
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porthole

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2012, 10:15:02 AM »

If you do have to pay, sounds like a trip to Deb's Garage might be in order. That is an excellent price for an installed trans.
EasternPC (eBay) sells the kit for 2295, free shipping, and then it has to be installed.
At $2500 installed it sounds like they are making very little on the parts markup but covering labor. Either way a good deal giving the options.

One more benefit you get with the DD6, because the comp sprocket is changed with this kit, you get better starter torque when starting up the bike.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2012, 11:04:41 AM »


But, back to the first question, who is the warranty company. And before you spend any money I would strongly suggest you research and read the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act, literally an act of congress, that protects consumers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act

It is incumbent on the warranty company to prove you failed in maintenance, not the other way around. It is this same law the does not require you to use the services of a selling dealer or to even keep receipts of maintenance.

MMWA applies to manufacturer's original warranties.  After the fact servcice contracts can and do have their own terms.
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porthole

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2012, 11:54:06 AM »

MMWA applies to manufacturer's original warranties.  After the fact servcice contracts can and do have their own terms.

I beleive that depends on who what where and how.

If the ESP, warranty, service contract, whatever it is called is the Harley branded item, then it is covered.
State laws also come itno play. NJ for all it's faults has some pretty strong insurance and banking regulations.


    A "service contract" is different from a warranty because service contracts do not affirm the quality or workmanship of a consumer product. A service contract is a written instrument in which a supplier agrees to perform, over a fixed period or for a specified duration, services relating to the maintenance or repair, or both, of a consumer product. Agreements that meet the statutory definition of service contracts, but are sold and regulated under state law as contracts of insurance, do not come under the Act's provisions.
    Disclaimer or Limitation of Implied Warranties when a service contract is sold:

Sellers of consumer products who make service contracts on their products are prohibited under the Act from disclaiming or limiting implied warranties. (Remember also that sellers who extend written warranties on consumer products cannot disclaim implied warranties, regardless of whether they make service contracts on their products.) However, sellers of consumer products that merely sell service contracts as agents of service contract companies and do not themselves extend written warranties can disclaim implied warranties on the products they sell.


But, I think I have now steered away form the original question far enough  :nixweiss:


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mrmagloo

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2012, 12:45:22 AM »

Another thought regarding installing the Baker DD6 gearset is, Baker generally offers decent install deals at the major shows. At least then, you know it's installed by knowledgable folks.
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Cvostu

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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2012, 07:39:11 AM »

I've see Baker at daytona a few times doing installs also.  Make sure to contact them for an appointment.    I'm sure they can get it done faster than anyone else too.  I was out on mine last night.  Nothing beats a Baker.  :2vrolijk_21:
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Re: Can I replace stock 5 speed with a six speed
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2012, 08:59:45 AM »

Just curious, what makes a Baker better than an SE-6?
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