Topic: broken belt club (Read 8402 times)

Lever · « **on:** March 14, 2012, 11:28:00 AM »

new member as of today broke my belt this morning on my to work

RayG · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2012, 01:38:33 PM »

Was you belt an OEM? What kind of mileage on it? you need to supply more info to to be fully vested in the BBC. (Broken Belt Club)

Lever · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2012, 06:58:13 PM »

OK here is the info ... i was in 2nd gear moving along when i felt froggy and " twisted the throttle " rpm went up i thought a i missed 3rd gear so i shifted again and rpm still went up .... then i knew it wasn't good ....

i have approx 3,500 miles on belt which includes 2 dyno tunning
the belt manufacture is "Falcon " part # BDL spc-132-20

i have decided to installed another belt same brand etc

the break is a clean cut between cogs .... all cogs on belt look great ..no marks no chipping no uneven wear marks .. this kinda leaves me to think maybe a def. belt ?

spydglide · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2012, 07:05:29 PM »

Quote from: Lever on March 14, 2012, 06:58:13 PM

i have approx 3,500 miles on belt which includes 2 dyno tunning
the belt manufacture is "Falcon " part # BDL spc-132-20

i have decided to installed another belt same brand etc

the break is a clean cut between cogs .... all cogs on belt look great ..no marks no chipping no uneven wear marks .. this kinda leaves me to think maybe a def. belt ?

Why wouldn't you want to try a different belt then? spyder

Lever · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2012, 07:07:09 PM »

i dunno spyder what other brands are available for my bike ?

spydglide · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2012, 07:16:57 PM »

Quote from: Lever on March 14, 2012, 07:07:09 PM

i dunno spyder what other brands are available for my bike ?

Have you checked to see if Gates makes one? spyder

AXIL · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2012, 07:20:39 PM »

Your belt was probably too tight.

JCZ · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2012, 07:40:12 PM »

Was your belt guard on?

Removed mine on my 86 Heritage. They said the belt broke because I'd removed the belt guard and some rocks had gotten up in there and broke the belt.

Lever · « **Reply #8 on:** March 14, 2012, 10:13:53 PM »

belt guard was on ... don't know about rock theory, cause there is no mark or indentation on belt that would lead me to think a rock got in caught in belt ...

Ed Ramberger - One_Screamin_Eagle · « **Reply #9 on:** March 15, 2012, 10:29:03 PM »

Quote from: Lever on March 14, 2012, 06:58:13 PM

OK here is the info ... i was in 2nd gear moving along when i felt froggy and " twisted the throttle " rpm went up i thought a i missed 3rd gear so i shifted again and rpm still went up .... then i knew it wasn't good ....

i have approx 3,500 miles on belt which includes 2 dyno tunning
the belt manufacture is "Falcon " part # BDL spc-132-20

i have decided to installed another belt same brand etc

the break is a clean cut between cogs .... all cogs on belt look great ..no marks no chipping no uneven wear marks .. this kinda leaves me to think maybe a def. belt ?

Straight across breaks are usually due to running it too loose or back bending when trying to shortcut installation. Of course this assumes a quality belt from the get go.

RayG · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2012, 10:59:05 AM »

You went 500 miles farther than I did with the Falcon Belt. There is allot of info on different belts and how to modify your swingarm to accept an OEM rather that go with an inferior belt. I can only speak for myself here but I would not put another Falcon belt on my bike period. Hope your belt problems were a one time deal.

faceracer · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2012, 12:33:31 PM »

3500 miles on belt. how many on pullies? Face

Lever · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2012, 12:34:38 PM »

3,500 miles on front 7,300 on rear

King Glide · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2012, 08:03:05 PM »

When mine broke I put on a oem belt for a side car rig. $50 bucks more but it is thicker than the orig and handles more torque.

CVO2FIXUP · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2012, 09:27:18 PM »

Must be all that extra power your ride is making since the rebuild. Need to change to a 540 chain set up.

grc · « **Reply #15 on:** March 19, 2012, 11:54:49 AM »

While not proof of anything, just the fact that so many folks have reported very short life with the Falcon belts would lead me to suspect there is a manufacturing or design problem. And there is another possible reason, other than back bending or running a belt too tight, for a straight across clean break with no obvious physical damage. It's called a butt joint failure.

Jerry

faceracer · « **Reply #16 on:** March 19, 2012, 02:07:43 PM »

Quote from: Lever on March 16, 2012, 12:34:38 PM

3,500 miles on front 7,300 on rear

Well I highly doubt it is a puley issue if they are that new. I never heard of a belt breaking due to being too loose? That's what is great about the net. The other here have seen it. Let me just throw a few belt facts out I learned from a Gates Factory rep:

Never twist a poly-chain belt ( to store like done with fan belts)
Never hang a belt on a nail or screw.
Never bend a belt less than a 6" radius ( this can cause cords to break)
They should be store flat!

So if pullies are good condition and belt was stored properly then unless you are seriously beating it like holeshoots and wheelies it sounds like a bad belt. The fact others had issues with this belt also makes me think they might not be a great product. Makes you ponder the question did you really save any money over a Harley Gates belt? Labor to change again, Aggravation, Time you can't ride your bike. Food for thought not trying to pick an open sore!......FACE

grc · « **Reply #17 on:** March 19, 2012, 02:40:24 PM »

Quote from: faceracer on March 19, 2012, 02:07:43 PM

Well I highly doubt it is a puley issue if they are that new. I never heard of a belt breaking due to being too loose? That's what is great about the net. The other here have seen it. Let me just throw a few belt facts out I learned from a Gates Factory rep:

Never twist a poly-chain belt ( to store like done with fan belts)
Never hang a belt on a nail or screw.
Never bend a belt less than a 6" radius ( this can cause cords to break)
They should be store flat!

So if pullies are good condition and belt was stored properly then unless you are seriously beating it like holeshoots and wheelies it sounds like a bad belt. The fact others had issues with this belt also makes me think they might not be a great product. Makes you ponder the question did you really save any money over a Harley Gates belt? Labor to change again, Aggravation, Time you can't ride your bike. Food for thought not trying to pick an open sore!......FACE

I don't think it was a question of price faceracer, but more a question of availability. Certain sizes are not available from H-D, so when changing belt size when doing a sprocket size change, people often have to look at other sources. The one that seems to be most common in the Harley aftermarket is Falcon. From all the bad press here and elsewhere, I'm guessing Falcon isn't the best choice for a late model Harley.

Steve at Fullsac has another thread running where he showed how to modify the swingarm to allow folks to run the stock Harley belt when changing trans sprockets. Maybe that's the way to approach the gearing change rather than depend on iffy quality belts.

Jerry

faceracer · « **Reply #18 on:** March 19, 2012, 03:02:39 PM »

makes me wonder if you could not order it direct from gates? I used to work on High speed packaging machinery and we used a dozen different sizes lengths and widths. I bet its a matter of contacting gates. I had a new gates belt take a black top rock and made a hole right thru the middle. It was a nearly new belt. I bought a hd emergency spare and put it in the saddlebag. That was in the mid 90's and I sold the bike in 07 with the same belt and around 40K miles on it. That was on my FXR which did get run hard!!!! Point being I think gates makes a Superior product? At least that's my experience! FACE

crunch29 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 19, 2012, 07:30:53 PM »

I just attended some belt training at work furnished by Gates. They told me if your belt breaks and it's straight across the width more than likely the belt was not tight enough. I believe he called that condition cupping. HD also owns the rights for the belts they have Gates provide. hey would not provide any detail other than that.

I'm not an expert by any means just pasing on some info I learned.

Crunch

ltank · « **Reply #20 on:** May 07, 2012, 08:02:30 PM »

Hi,
My belt is 12 years old. 2000 FXR4 CVO (1.5" wide belt). I now have a S&S V111 with 116 HP/122 TQ and I run it pretty good at times but
no wheelies or burnouts yet. My belt used to squeek when decelerating. Belt was a little loose, tightened and all good now. S&S Has a belt made by gates that has X3N carbon cord technology that is suppossed to be alot sstronger than the Aramid used by many manufactures. made in 1 1/2" and 1 1/8" wide in assorted tooth counts.
Ltank

BigLew · « **Reply #21 on:** May 09, 2012, 07:42:31 PM »

The belt is junk regardless how you ride. on my 2nd and a spare in the bag. I guess I'll get around to a fix soon.

BigLew

sleepybare · « **Reply #22 on:** May 09, 2012, 08:22:06 PM »

I have the same situation and a Gates belt is not available for my bike. It seems that Falcon is the only manufacturer which makes a 1 inch 135 tooth for the 2007 CVO. I am not concerned about the money to change the belt as much as I am about being stranded in the middle of no where with a broken part. I any one knows the part number for a belt in the correct size manufactured by Gates i would be thankful and inclined to change mine at the next service. I have also considered going to a larger 1 1/8 inch wide rear pulley and buying a S&S belt but I am not sure if it would fit or work..Any input from the experts here is appreciated, I do not want to modify my swing arm to make the stock belt work if there is a solution out there and I do not know what it is.....

smiley1049 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 09, 2012, 10:44:11 PM »

Dont you already have the larger belt on the 07

quote author=sleepybare link=topic=72021.msg1016205#msg1016205 date=1336609326]
I have the same situation and a Gates belt is not available for my bike. It seems that Falcon is the only manufacturer which makes a 1 inch 135 tooth for the 2007 CVO. I am not concerned about the money to change the belt as much as I am about being stranded in the middle of no where with a broken part. I any one knows the part number for a belt in the correct size manufactured by Gates i would be thankful and inclined to change mine at the next service. I have also considered going to a larger 1 1/8 inch wide rear pulley and buying a S&S belt but I am not sure if it would fit or work..Any input from the experts here is appreciated, I do not want to modify my swing arm to make the stock belt work if there is a solution out there and I do not know what it is.....
[/quote]

sleepybare · « **Reply #24 on:** May 10, 2012, 12:26:45 PM »

Not according to my service manager who is convinced it is a 1 inch belt. If it were an 1 1/8 inch I would have a couple of options. If he is wrong I would like to know. I have installed the Tri-glide pulley on the front so there is absolutely room for the belt to grow in width. The issue seems to be the rear pulley width. So to the experts out there, is the rear pully on a 2007 CVO Ultra capable of using a wider belt or am I married to the 1 inch belt as my dealership states. Any additional input in this area is valuable for future decisions..thanks

grc · « **Reply #25 on:** May 10, 2012, 01:40:39 PM »

You don't need a service manager to tell you how wide your belt is, get a tape measure or other scale and measure it. A one inch belt will measure one inch across. It really is that simple.

btw, all belts were changed to the current one inch wide version for the 2007 model year.

Jerry

smiley1049 · « **Reply #26 on:** May 10, 2012, 06:09:50 PM »

The belt number I used is 40056-07 that i used on my 07 CVO Ultra
I have the belt it is used in good condition was on the old bike for 10 thousand miles
Belt Number shows that it is a good part #
136T belt
Why are you looking for a belt that is 2 teeth shorter you should only need 1 shorter

RayG · « **Reply #27 on:** May 10, 2012, 06:28:36 PM »

Why are you replacing a 137 T for the 2007/2008 for a Falcon 135 T? You can get an 136T OEM belt which will fine for the 30t conversion. I had the 135T Falcon for a very short time, wouldn't put another on if it was free.

sleepybare · « **Reply #28 on:** May 10, 2012, 07:24:16 PM »

this is great information, I can get a 1 inch 136 tooth gates belt through HD. Maybe its my ignorance but I thought a 136 tooth belt would be to long for the 30 tooth gear change but if it works I will be very happy. Thats why I belong to this site, lots of good information for the person who does not know....your input is greatly appreciated

sadunbar · « **Reply #29 on:** May 10, 2012, 07:49:00 PM »

Quote from: sleepybare on May 10, 2012, 07:24:16 PM

this is great information, I can get a 1 inch 136 tooth gates belt through HD. Maybe its my ignorance but I thought a 136 tooth belt would be to long for the 30 tooth gear change but if it works I will be very happy. Thats why I belong to this site, lots of good information for the person who does not know....your input is greatly appreciated

This is the MOCO OEM 136 tooth belt that works fine on an 07 with the 30 tooth gear change. Surdyke offers a great price...

40056-07
BELT, SECONDARY DRIVE, 136T, 1 INCH WIDE

http://www.surdyke.com/AdvPartInfo.asp?PartNumber=40056-07

ltank · « **Reply #30 on:** May 10, 2012, 07:56:57 PM »

Is there a list of belt sizes that Harley uses. Belt widths and tooth counts. There were so many changes with different models. Does anyone know the part numbers for a
65 tooth 1 1/8" pulley or a 70 tooth 1 1/8" pulley. lastly a Harley 1 1/8" 135 or 136 tooth belt? When doing custom work it makes for a big headache and lots of research.
Thanks Guys,
Ltank

RayG · « **Reply #31 on:** May 11, 2012, 04:54:32 PM »

It seems to be a simple enough issue that should have a number of possible solutions. After my Falcon belt broke last July 4th just heading out for a weekend of riding I have since read everything I could plus contacted sprocket manufactures for choppers and customs for possible replacements. Like many others I was looking for a Gates or better quality belt & sprocket combination would be available in wider widths to give us some extra insurance. We all know the Tri-Glide solves the wider front sprocket but I was not successfull in locating a wider belt and rear sprocket combination. I have been real carefull not to put to much strain on the belt and to be honest it defeated the original purpose for me which was to lower the gearing and have the low end grunt when getting on it. There is a local guy that went to a chain drive on his 117" Hillside built Roadglide. He has the dragster mentality and has gone through a number of belts in quick fashion. I believe he broke 3 belts in one week of doing holeshots etc. If the belt was located on the other side it would make life alot easier.

This belt topic has been beat to death with some interesting ideas, from swingarm modifications to a chain drive. With all the problems that members from this site have discussed and solved it just seems that a better solution would have surfaced to improve the 30T mods.

Apologies for the poor spelling, spell check is taking the day off today!

timo482 · « **Reply #32 on:** May 11, 2012, 06:07:24 PM »

im sure it would be possible to have a pully machined.

to

RayG · « **Reply #33 on:** May 12, 2012, 09:36:15 AM »

Yes one can be machined but the cost quoted for my fitment was beyond what I would ever think of paying. Wish I was a machinist at times.

ltank · « **Reply #34 on:** May 14, 2012, 08:22:39 PM »

I was looking at the Gates site about different belts and pulleys. Here are some confusing info. It has various drawings. Standard 14mm pulley vs HTD 14mm pulleys.
How do you know if you got the correct pulley to correct belt even if both are 14 mm?

? I did not understand it. You guys take a look and maybe give me some insight.
When I see pulleys on line they dont say. Not even Andrews when I bout a 30 tooth pulley. FXR 5 speed and plan to run Sportster 68 tooth 1 1/8" pulley and 11/8" belt.
http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=3117&location_id=3881

WARNING: When designing belt drives for new applications with PowerGrip® GT®2 Power Ratings, do not use HTD® Sprocket Systems. HTD Sprockets/Bushings may not handle the increased torque loads and damage to the sprocket and/or bushing may occur. Only use PowerGrip GT2 Sprockets for new designs.

REPLACEMENT NOTE: When replacing an existing HTD belt running in an HTD Sprocket. Gates recommends PowerGrip HTD belts for 5 mm pitch sprockets and PowerGrip GT2 belts for 8 mm and 14mm pitch sprockets.

Ltank

North Star · « **Reply #35 on:** May 14, 2012, 09:17:03 PM »

I can't believe nobody has picked up the phone and called Gates to explain the issue that everyone has been discussing for months, and see what they have to say. I'd say ask what's the differences between the belt they mfg for HD, and the Poly Chain? I'd ask their opinion on why belts are breaking, albeit (possibly) from different manufacturers. And, see if they will sell directly any other versions they make that may be more suited to the pulley swap.

Before someone says, "why don't I?", I lost interest in doing this mod due to the fact I feel no performance mod is worth lowering the reliablity factor.

ltank · « **Reply #36 on:** May 15, 2012, 11:02:45 AM »

I emailed Gates and their reply was the following. from Mr. BRENT OMAN Manager Product Application Engineering

"The HD belts are Poly Chain belts, with a Carbon tensile member. The Carbon used in the HD belts are different than in our standard industrial Poly Chain GT Carbon belts.
The HD belts are HTD tooth profile, as are the HD sprocket grooves. We don't carry any replacement line of motorcycle belts through Gates, and instead sell to that market entirely through Harley Davidson or any of the various aftermarket parts houses.
Hope this helps - any questions, please let me know."

Seems to me that you should only use HD belts on HD pulleys that use the HTD tooth profile to be sure. Gates maked HD belts. HD belts can only be bought through HD,
Gates does make other belts for other copanies that can be used on Harleys but I don't know the compatability issues.

Ltank

captdave221 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 02, 2012, 12:24:30 PM »

Well I have a falcon belt and I am do to receive a PC-139-1 139T-1 INCH WIDE 14MM POLYCHAIN BELT on Monday. I have a friend with a 120 motor running the Falcon ans it has not broke yet !!! I guess I'll try the PC-139-1 139T-1 INCH WIDE 14MM POLYCHAIN on my 120 and see which lasts the longest. i have a 2011 Ultra with a 120 and he has a 2010 Street Glide. Will post results as miles are acquired. LOL

mcdonaldroadcapt · « **Reply #38 on:** June 03, 2012, 09:19:14 AM »

I have 30,000 on the belt of my 2008 SE Ultra pushing two 225X65X15 tires on a trike conversion with no problems. Have always maintained proper adjustment per book. Also, my 2000 Heritage Springer built to 95 CI has 40,000 miles on the belt and still in excellent shape. I think that maintaining adjustment is the key.

dayne66 · « **Reply #39 on:** June 03, 2012, 09:26:08 AM »

Had 45,000 miles on the '08 Ultra....before picking up a 3/8" x 1" bolt and having it embedded in the center of the belt. After starting to hear a ticking sound related to speed, drove another couple hundred kms to work and 1000kms home to my garage, where closer inspection revealed the issue. Replaced belt and dressed pullies...all was good 'til the day I traded it in.

ltank · « **Reply #40 on:** June 04, 2012, 12:37:07 PM »

Did the 3/8" x 1" bolt come loose from your Bike to cause this? Did you have a lower belt guard protecti ng the belt / pulley? Curious.
Ltank

dayne66 · « **Reply #41 on:** June 04, 2012, 12:49:32 PM »

Bolt was not from bike....was a regular zinc bolt. All guards were in place. Just bad luck.

Author Topic: broken belt club (Read 8402 times)