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[EZRIDN]

[highlight]Stuff like this always casts a shadow on an otherwise fun event and gives the un-educated public more fuel to cast doubt upon anyone who rides.[/highlight]

CUSTER -- Six bikers affiliated with the Outlaws motorcycle gang were shot late Tuesday afternoon at Legion Lake in Custer State Park, possibly by members of a rival motorcycle gang, according to a spokeswoman for the state Attorney General's Office.

An unconfirmed report by KELO-TV indicated the Outlaws might have been shot by Hells Angels.

For more of this story, click on or type the URL below:

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2006/08/09/news/top/news01.txt

[ccr]

 

[J.J.]

Looks like they arrested two suspects.  

http://www.kotatv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5257654

[VAZHOG]

[DCFIREMANN]

[highlight]Stuff like this always casts a shadow on an otherwise fun event and gives the un-educated public more fuel to cast doubt upon anyone who rides.[/highlight]

CUSTER -- Six bikers affiliated with the Outlaws motorcycle gang were shot late Tuesday afternoon at Legion Lake in Custer State Park, possibly by members of a rival motorcycle gang, according to a spokeswoman for the state Attorney General's Office.

[highlight]An unconfirmed report by KELO-TV indicated the Outlaws might have been shot by Hells Angels.[/highlight]
For more of this story, click on or type the URL below:

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2006/08/09/news/top/news01.txt

And that would surprise who??? They have been at war for a good while.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Steve_G]

  Actually five Outlaw club members were shot.  Another was injured as he tried to escape the authorities.  I live 2 miles outside Custer State Park.  -Listened to the whole thing over about a four hour period on the scanner.  Several federal Marshals were brought in.  There's quite a bit more to the story, but I can't comment because of the public nature of this posting.  I have to play and sing outside the Gold Pan Saloon the next couple of days and don't need any grief.
Since it's been reported that about 450 Outlaws have rented a whole campground inside the park, I would expect there could be some retaliation.  At about the same time, a bike caught fire and burned up on the Custer game loop.    
  Also, I saw a watermelon Ultra SE on the news laying on it's side somewhere outside of Sturgis.  Seems that the rider or possibly another biker tried to do a U-turn on the highway and they collided.  One biker broke both arms plus other injuries.  I hope it isn't someone we all know from this web site.
  I just love the "rally"!  I haven't had so much fun since the pigs ate my little sister.   [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif] -Steve

    

[SPIDERMAN]

And that would surprise who??? They have been at war for a good while.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

    No surprises Dawg only sadness that the situation never changes. I know people on both sides of this aisle and one on one they are not that different than you and I. I have no idea why they do what they do - - hell I have no idea anymore why I spent 15 years of my life living that way either. The thing that bothers me the most is that in the old days, Sturgis,and Daytona were neutral. The was an unspoken rule that these feuds were put aside during the events. For whatever reason, Laconia was not. Laconia was a war zone in the old days and has actually improved hugely in the past few years. Maybe after this, Sturgis will see some sort of return to the old days of neutrality. I hope so. Too many people with no stake in things get caught in the crossfire of these feuds.

[DCFIREMANN]

 

[SPIDERMAN]

Forget Laughlin ?
                       chit Dawg, I was still flyin colors when that went down. Had no choice which side to be on as there were agreements in place. Ask me at MV to tell you how that went down. I still have nightmares over that weekend.

[DCFIREMANN]

Forget Laughlin ?
                  

[Fatboy]

Man we need to get Rodney King to make some of the ralleys. I can hear it now.
CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

You know "B" they are just like that bunch in the middle east. They have been fighting for ever.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

-----------------------------------------------------------
 In the Middle East they've been fighting due to Religious Beliefs. With the OMG's its constant battle over respect and "business" related issue's.
 Just finished reading a very good book called "Under and Alone" by William Queen an Undercover Agent for the ATF who ran with the Mongol's for about 2 years. I found it to be a very insightful look at the culture and mentality of these gangs. I know I learned a lot about street etiquette from the book and have been lucky in the past that when in the company of such parties that I never got hurt. Never tried to get too close though either.

[HUBBARD]

-----------------------------------------------------------
 In the Middle East they've been fighting due to Religious Beliefs. With the OMG's its constant battle over respect and "business" related issue's.
 Just finished reading a very good book called "Under and Alone" by William Queen an Undercover Agent for the ATF who ran with the Mongol's for about 2 years. I found it to be a very insightful look at the culture and mentality of these gangs. I know I learned a lot about street etiquette from the book and have been lucky in the past that when in the company of such parties that I never got hurt. Never tried to get to close though either.

[Fatboy]

Fatboy,
 

[MJZ]

I agree, good read

[DCFIREMANN]

Looks like I need to go and find this book. I hope it has lots of pictures!!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[erniezap]

Read the book in one sitting it was so good!  I recommend it to everyone (and yes, it has pictures).

[joez28ss]

verry good book!! thanks Fatboy

i have been riding severial years boy im glad i never ran across any of thees bad dudes.

 [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]
joez28ss

[JCZ]

There's a hard back photo essay type book out called "Rebels With A Cause" by Gail DeMarco and they have a couple pictures of the club (from the LA area) in there.  The guy that wrote that book is probably in it.

By the way.......about page 107.......a couple pages on yours truely.

[CVOwner]

Theyre killing each other, who cares?

[Fired00d]

Theyre killing each other, who cares?

I do, one of us could be an innocent bystander. [smiley=nixweiss.gif] If they were to meet out in the middle of the Badlands with no one else around I to may not be concerned, but since I frequent some rallies/events that they may be at it does concern me.

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[Steve_G]

The two suspects arrested are able to get out on a $5 million bail.

[Fatboy]

Theyre killing each other, who cares?

---------------------------------------------------------------

 Glad to see you have such a strong moral compass...........NOT!  

[naitram]

Theyre killing each other, who cares?

we should all care, in the eyes of many they are no different from us. as D00d pointed out this happened at a rally, we all go to rallies. and many in a cage would put them and us into the catagory of biker with no distinction to colors/affilations/independent

[cuthbertss]

we should all care, in the eyes of many they are no different from us. as D00d pointed out this happened at a rally, we all go to rallies. and many in a cage would put them and us into the catagory of biker with no distinction to colors/affilations/independent

well said....  furthermore this casts a cloud over every event..... without getting into specifics... I am weighing whether or not to go to a large rally this weekend.  The "security" for the event is provided by colors wearing 1%ers.  additionally, there is a lot of discussion about this site being a potential site for retribution from the events at Custer State Park.

This event is nominally a salute to veterans.... but im not sure even the slightest chance of getting caught in a cross fire between d**kheads is worth the risk.

[EZRIDN]

we should all care, in the eyes of many they are no different from us. as D00d pointed out this happened at a rally, we all go to rallies. and many in a cage would put them and us into the catagory of biker with no distinction to colors/affilations/independent

This goes back to my original post....[highlight]Stuff like this always casts a shadow on an otherwise fun event and gives the un-educated public more fuel to cast doubt upon anyone who rides. [/highlight]

Non-riders see these kinds of activities in the headlines and make a generalization that we are all just a bunch of motorcycle riding thugs not worthy of sharing the air...hence, they don't care about sharing the road with us either.

As far as attending future/other events, my advice to anyone is the same as that which I have told my kids for years while they were growing up...."Always remember, the best way out of a bad situation is to not allow yourself to get into a bad situation in the first place."

[RedFXR2]

I would agree that the public at large tends to make generalizations about riders based on stuff like the recent events at Sturgis.  That's a bad thing.

The "security" for the event is provided by colors wearing 1%ers.

[cuthbertss]

I would agree that the public at large tends to make generalizations about riders based on stuff like the recent events at Sturgis.

[RJ749]

Found this on the web, looks like Mel Gibson was cast for a role in the upcoming movie based on the book.

No telling where it goes after his DUI in Malibu I guess.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0383026/fullcredits

[cuthbertss]

should make for an excellent flick

[HUBBARD]

  I've known quite a few 1%er's in years gone by, and know a handful, today.  Some were scum, some were, and are, alright, in my book.  Some were, and are Veterans.  That may be the connection.  I, personally, would not let an Event's choice of security, be the deciding factor in my attendance there.  If I attend an event, and I see "Patches", are there for the duration, as opposed to just passing through, I make it a priority to have the "difference", with me.  I also keep my distance.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD  

[TheVgirl]

...and I see "Patches", are there for the duration, as opposed to just passing through, I make it a priority to have the "difference", with me.  I also keep my distance.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD  

"Colors," not "patches!"   There endeth the lesson.  -V

[SPIDERMAN]

"Colors," not "patches!"

[TheVgirl]

HOG members wear "patches."  Club members display "colors."

[JCZ]

"Colors," not "patches!"

[cuthbertss]

JC
Amen to that

[HUBBARD]

HOG members wear "patches."

[Fatboy]

Hub,

 Did you get the book yet? I could send you my copy if you like.

Fatboy

[joez28ss]

so when i get my new CVO patch do that mean we are a gang?


 [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]
joez28ss

[HUBBARD]

Hub,

 Did you get the book yet? I could send you my copy if you like.

Fatboy

Fatboy,
  Just flat ain't had time to get it!  Leavin' early in the Morning for Madison, WI.  Race Saturday Nite.  Flying J mapquest had me going through Ohio on 33, but I've decided to go to Louisville, Indianapolis, bypass Chicago, and over.  I'll try get me one, when I return.  Thanks.  Later--HUBBARD

[RedFXR2]

The "security" for the event is provided by [highlight]colors wearing 1%ers[/highlight].

I think we all understood that nobody was talking about security being provided by HOG members.

Certainly there is a huge difference between flying colors and wearing patches.

I still maintain that I can't understand why any legitimate event would hire colors-flying 1%ers, particularly in light of recent events, as security.

If nothing else, it would seem to me that this would be announcing to their enemies where they will be and when, so who wants to shoot who first?  And who could get caught in the crossfire?

[HUBBARD]

HOG members wear "patches."

[Midnight Rider]

The key statement here is "keep your distance", which if/when I'm at an event and see any recognizable people wearing "colors" or three piece "patches", I will be heading in the opposite direction, or find somewhere else to be.  I'm about 2/3 of the way through the book...some scarey chit.

[BLM777]

I think we all understood that nobody was talking about security being provided by HOG members.

Certainly there is a huge difference between flying colors and wearing patches.

I still maintain that I can't understand why any [highlight]legitimate event[/highlight] would hire colors-flying 1%ers, particularly in light of recent events, as security.

If nothing else, it would seem to me that this would be announcing to their enemies where they will be and when, so who wants to shoot who first?

[ccr]

[highlight]I'm a HOG Member[/highlight].

[SPIDERMAN]

so when i get my new CVO patch do that mean we are a gang?


 [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]
joez28ss

Now that's funny chit. One thing outlaw bikers hate is being referred to as a " Gang "

[BK]

I got to get the book.

[MJZ]

Legitimate is the operative word from a viewpoint of liability.

[BLM777]

For the same reason companies put Rev. Jesse Jackson on their boards or in consulting positions. The Rev. comes to you and says he is going to call a press conference at your front door or you can by his "friendship" and advice to correct the evils your company is doing.
As a promoter I hear one particular evil group is going to disrupt my event or I can hire their sevices to avoid this problem. It is called legal blackmail and the rev. Jesse Jackson did not invent it, only perfected it and brought it to a international level. Ask many of the top 400. I know when I was with IBM, they paid the Rev. for consulting sevices.

Exactly right Mark.  Had the occassion to meet a retired HD dealer who was placed in that position by a well known MC that provided "security" for a major event sponsored by his shop. Attendance dropped by 50% while the "old ladies" and their shoplifting crews set the clothing inventory back about 20k.  Got a kick out of your JJ comparison.  Didn't know about IBM, but was aware of a reported 7 figure number from Toyota to avoid the wreck.  Bad chit regardless of who's doing it.

[TheVgirl]

The key statement here is "keep your distance", which if/when I'm at an event and see any recognizable people wearing "colors" or three piece "patches", I will be heading in the opposite direction, or find somewhere else to be.  I'm about 2/3 of the way through the book...some scarey chit.

My info didn't come out of a book and I'm not claiming to be an authority!  And yea, it's probably a good idea for you to keep your distance if you're at a rally and you start seeing a display of colors!  And when they start assembling themselves at quarter-hour positions....RUN LIKE HELL!!!  Most of the time, clubs operate without being in the public eye.  There are MANY recognized clubs and typically show respect to fellow "patch holders."  Most MCs will send out an invitation to a club event to all recognized clubs in their COC.  And yes, there are rival clubs!  That didn't start with HA and Outlaws!  It didn't start with bikers!  (The HA have the notoriety because they are the oldest club and the Outlaws have the influence because they are the biggest.)  Regardless, most members think of their mc as their FAMILY.  To some, this is their ONLY family!  Problems occur when someone messes with the family.  It doesn't make their actions RIGHT, by any stretch of the imagination!  However, it does make it a little more understandable.  No one knew what the Hatfields and McCoys were fighting over for all those years!  They just knew their families had always hated each other and kept up the fued out of LOYALTY!

[Fatboy]

so when i get my new CVO patch do that mean we are a gang?


 [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]
joez28ss

---------------------------------------------------

Joe,

 Good point!

[TheVgirl]

Who was it who said, "You can fix just about any problem if you throw enough money at it?"  

[naitram]

My info didn't come out of a book and I'm not claiming to be an authority!

[MJZ]

Who was it who said, "You can fix just about any problem if you throw enough money at it?"

[SPIDERMAN]

Who was it who said, "You can fix just about any problem if you throw enough money at it?"

[joez28ss]

so you mean i need 3 CVO patches 1top 1bottem 1center then i can be a gang. OOPS i mean M C !!!

ps. hope i have enough room on my vest.


 [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]
joez28ss

[TheVgirl]

Neil,
Here's the stats I quoted after the Virginia incident:

The Outlaws Motorcycle Club is the largest motorcycle club in the World, with over 350 chapters and 3,500 members spanning the globe from the United States through, Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand to Thiland. The pagan's have 400 members nation wide.

I don't know for sure, and I'm sure it's a matter of opinion.  If you really want to know the stats on either, you could ask your local or maybe the COC in your state.  Both are growing in numbers again.  

[TheVgirl]

so you mean i need 3 CVO patches 1top 1bottem 1center then i can be a gang. OOPS i mean M C !!!

ps. hope i have enough room on my vest.


 [smiley=banana.gif] [smiley=banana.gif]
joez28ss

Not exactly!   On the top of the back of the vest is the NAME, and the bottom is the Charter's location. These are called rockers. The center is the logo or insignia and the small square with MC stands for Motorcycle Club.  THEN you have to get approval or acceptance by the COC (Confederation of Clubs) to be a recognized club.  I don't think we'd qualify!!!!   If we did, CVOHARLEY would definitely have the nicest rides!!!!   However, I'm not sure I could hang with the big boys!  And I'm not anybody's property so I sure as hell won't be wearing anybody's colors!!    PLUS "club business stays within the club!"  WHO ARE WE KIDDING!!!   We can't buy a new turn signal bulb without broadcasting it across the world!!!!!

Joe, I think we're OUT!!!!   I'll stick with SITE member!!!!!!

[HUBBARD]

My info didn't come out of a book and I'm not claiming to be an authority!

[HUBBARD]

Me too!

[HUBBARD]

Now that's funny chit. One thing outlaw bikers hate is being referred to as a " Gang "

[SPIDERMAN]

Touche Hubbard, not a bad retort, but no where near as vitriolic as you used to throw at me awhile back. Are you mellowing a bit ? I do so hope not as one of the things I first enjoyed about this site was your very pointed rebuttals to the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune sometimes sent your way. And you didn't even add in one of those neat little finger flippin gremlins at the end. Damn.
    But you know my jest was also aimed to a degree at those who usurp the ending to your posts. Multiple targets as it were you know olde chap. But it's all in good fun or at least I mean it as such. As to the public part ? Whatever would I say in a PM to you about ,as you say such a weak little jab?  " Dear Mr. Hubbard, are you a man of the cloth ? Why do you use words like endeth in your sign off ? " LOL

Keep on keepin on Hubbard, you are one of a kind !  

Adios
      

[MJZ]

There's a hard back photo essay type book out called "Rebels With A Cause" by Gail DeMarco and they have a couple pictures of the club (from the LA area) in there.

[JCZ]

It is pages 104 & 105. Lookin' good J.C., I'm impressed. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]
BTW, did you keep the [highlight]86 Heritage from then on[/highlight], as you said you would probably in 1994? I'll bet that bike is a distant memory.

Definately a distant memory......back before the SEEG, two Ultra Classics and a couple other short term bikes.  

For what it's worth.......in the written page......only one sentence on their came out of my mouth and only one from Kathleen......the other is all taken out of context and turned around to say just about whatever they wanted it to. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]  Now I can see why celebrities get so upset about stuff taken out of context and twisted.

[bdas2]

 [smiley=banana.gif]

You guys are talking about reading the book "Under and Alone"  great book I was around at the time and can relate to it.  If you liked that book read this one next
"Hells Angels" by Hunter S. Thompson  also undercover it's good...then pick up the book "The Wild Ones" it's about the boozefighters, the first club formed. I though all these books were great.........Enjoy

[MJZ]

[smiley=banana.gif]

You guys are talking about reading the book "Under and Alone"

[MJZ]

Definately a distant memory......back before the SEEG, two Ultra Classics and a couple other short term bikes.

[Fired00d]

Since we have a celeb. on site, it should be shared: [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

That is a blast down memory lane. Thanks for sharing. [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

 [smiley=pumpkin.gif]
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 [smiley=fireman.gif]

[ccr]

Since we have a celeb. on site, it should be shared: [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Thanks MJZ for scanning that picture in and sharing with us that don't have the book. I have been living in this area for more than two years now, and have not found my way to the library to get a card yet.  To see this excerpt of the book, I might just have to force myself to make it hapen.  

Great photo.   [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[naitram]

-----------------------------------------------------------
 In the Middle East they've been fighting due to Religious Beliefs. With the OMG's its constant battle over respect and "business" related issue's.
 Just finished reading a very good book called "Under and Alone" by William Queen an Undercover Agent for the ATF who ran with the Mongol's for about 2 years. I found it to be a very insightful look at the culture and mentality of these gangs. I know I learned a lot about street etiquette from the book and have been lucky in the past that when in the company of such parties that I never got hurt. Never tried to get too close though either.

[JCZ]

Since we have a celeb. on site, it should be shared: [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

Not a celeb.......just one of the guys.  I'm also in the book "Milwaukee 2003, The Year In Pictures" and in the movie "Rescue Me" (just as an extra.....but it was a lot of fun).

[killjoy]

"Colors," not "patches!"