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[Dobeman2000]

Started doing some research in this area since I just got some Rush slip ons.  Know I "should" be able to run them without any problem since they are just slip ons, but I don't want an popping on decelleration and I know that can happen.  So, my first stop was the Powercommander V.  Bought one of these from FuelMoto for my 05 Deluxe I had a few years ago and it worked great.  Jamie at FuelMoto said they will not be selling the Powercommander V for the Breakout due to the limited amount of space available, so if I went with a Dynojet product it would have to be the Power Vision which costs significantly more- nothing is permanantly attached-it flashes the ECM directly.  So, are any of the "modules" going to fit with the limited area with the Breakout?  I know Zo6_Pilot got the Cobra system.  The very expensive Thundermax unit would work I guess because it totally replaces the ECM, but that is about $1000 new.  So, I am really at a loss as to what will fit.  I am probably just going to have my dealer to a flash to update the ECM (don't know how much that costs).  What are the rest of you planning on?

[Nicky Pass]

I used the Power Vision with my Street Glide and it was easy as can be.  AND....with Fuel Moto, they give you lifetime support.....thats hard to beat!

[Z06_Pilot]

Dobeman,

you bring up an interesting issue.....fitment of the control module.  I assume you have pulled your seat by now....WOW, I'm not sure there is room under there for a postage stamp!  my control module is very small, but I'm still going to have to get very creative to get the unit to fit down in there somewhere !!

[Dobeman2000]

Yeah, I pulled it off and it is obviously small, but I still think a PCV would fit in there somehow- i think the wiring is more of an issue than the unit itself.  But if anyone out there has done any of this let us know how you have fared.

Dobeman,

you bring up an interesting issue.....fitment of the control module.  I assume you have pulled your seat by now....WOW, I'm not sure there is room under there for a postage stamp!  my control module is very small, but I'm still going to have to get very creative to get the unit to fit down in there somewhere !!

[grc]

Be careful when trying to shoehorn a module into a too small space.  Pressure on the case of the module, or the connectors, could cause a failure.  You also need room to dissipate heat.  Mounting something like a PCV or other add-on device that won't fit in the normal location might still be possible if you can find a remote location where it will fit and then come up with a wire harness extension (I imagine it would have to be made up custom).  Sounds like more work than it is likely to be worth.

This issue is another good argument for using one of the VCI units (TTS, SEPST, PV, etc) to change the map in the actual ECM versus using an add-on box.  Even the touring models are running out of room these days what with all the other crap stuffed under the seat and side covers.

Jerry

[cbdeluxe]

I am thinking of using the HD tuner, that way there is nothing to install. Is there any reason
why nobody else is considering this option?

[dlaws01]

Jerry has a very good point.  Why try to stuff some module under the seat when you don't have to.  Just make sure that whoever does the tune is experienced and familiar with which unit you decide to go with.  Unless you are doing other bigger engine mods, i.e. cams, pistons, etc., it should be fairly straight forward as you can only expect to squeeze out so much from just an ECM remap. JMHO.

[Dobeman2000]

this is probably what I am going to go with- going to talk to my local indy guy and see what he suggests.

I am thinking of using the HD tuner, that way there is nothing to install. Is there any reason
why nobody else is considering this option?

[Dobeman2000]

Looking at the TTS Mastertune- do the 2013 CVO's use Delphi ECM's?  If not then I

[Dobeman2000]

Looking at the TTS Mastertune- do the 2013 CVO's use Delphi ECM's?  If not then I guess I would have to go a different direction, since TTS units apparently only work with Delphi ECM's.

[Midnight Rider]

Yes, all HD bikes since '02 use Delphi ECM's.

My personal preference, in order, would be:

1.)  TTS Mastertune w/Cables
2.)  SEPRT  (NOT the street legal version...the Pro Tuner)

The TTS has more functionality, and is becoming a tuning device that many independent shops use.  The best advice I can give you is to first find a good tuner in your area, and find out which tuning device they prefer using.  If you will ask here on the site, someone will likely be able to recommend a good shop in your area that uses either of those devices (again, my preference being the TTS).  I personally am not a proponent of devices that piggyback, or that replace the ECM.  IMO, it is better to change the program in the stock ECM.  With the TTS, you can save a copy of the stock program so that you can always go back to it should the need arise.  Replacement ECM's give HD a really good excuse to deny warranty coverage.  It would be like buying a new computer from Dell, changing the motherboard out, then expect them to warranty the computer.

If it was me, I'd replace the entire exhaust system, then get a good tune and just ride it.  The difference over stock will be significant.

Technically, you might not need any tuner at all with just slip on mufflers.  However, even a stock bike can benefit from a good tune.

[Midnight Rider]

PS:  I see you live in Illinois.  I'm sure that someone here can recommend a good shop to get your bike properly tuned.

Be mindful of the fact that just because your local HD dealer has a Dyno does NOT mean they have anyone properly trained to use it.

Here is a list of TTS dealers:  http://www.mastertune.net/dealers.htm

There are several in your area.  Do some checking around and find out which shop has well trained people.

[Dobeman2000]

Thanks for the info.- nobody "close" to me (100 miles or so).  Going to call my local Indy guy.

PS:  I see you live in Illinois.  I'm sure that someone here can recommend a good shop to get your bike properly tuned.

Be mindful of the fact that just because your local HD dealer has a Dyno does NOT mean they have anyone properly trained to use it.

Here is a list of TTS dealers:  http://www.mastertune.net/dealers.htm

There are several in your area.  Do some checking around and find out which shop has well trained people.

[Z06_Pilot]

Jerry has a very good point.  Why try to stuff some module under the seat when you don't have to. 

so that you don't have to do a tune......

[skratch]

Yes, all HD bikes since '02 use Delphi ECM's.

My personal preference, in order, would be:

1.)  TTS Mastertune w/Cables
2.)  SEPRT  (NOT the street legal version...the Pro Tuner)

any reason why you left off the dynojet powervision?  it is not a piggyback module, and gives the enduser a lot of flexibility.  you can leave the unit hooked up and custom display a gauge package to monitor if you so choose.  it gives you the ability to pull and clear error codes, and it also has a basic autotune that requires no additional parts, or you can go pro with the autotune module.

[Midnight Rider]

I'm not familiar with it for one reason, so can't comment one way or the other.

[Z06_Pilot]

any reason why you left off the dynojet powervision?  it is not a piggyback module, and gives the enduser a lot of flexibility.  you can leave the unit hooked up and custom display a gauge package to monitor if you so choose.  it gives you the ability to pull and clear error codes, and it also has a basic autotune that requires no additional parts, or you can go pro with the autotune module.

To Ekim and others that mentioned the Power Vision.  I have never really looked into it since I assumed(incorrectly) that you had to use windows software and a laptop and track graphs, etc, to get a tune working properly on the bike.

I stand corrected in this regard and I really appreciate you folks mentioning it.  This looks very interesting to me.  i think I might be trying both the Cobra(since I already have it), and the Power Vision...what I like about it(some of this has already been mentioned):

1. no laptop or blasted Windows software needed to load a map onto the bike's ECU. 
2. You can bring down a canned load from DynaJet and load it onto the PV2 unit then right into the bike's ECU
3. it maintains a copy of the vanilla HD ECU load.  That way, for maintenance/warranty purposes, I can always revert back to factory if needed.
4. nothing to attach to the bike except a single cable from the handlebar module to the ECU
5. They have a autotune basic(comes standard with the unit) or Pro option(adds module and wide-band O2's) if I choose to have the unit autotune using stock narrow-band O2's
6. I don't have to find a place under the seat to mount a module as I would have to do with the Cobra...I can load the ECU and remove the connector if I choose to.

Finally, thanks for the tip on Fuel Moto.  I have heard good things about them.  I am going to order the PV2 from them.

Again, thanks a lot for bringing this unit to my attention.

[miker]

Put the cans on it and ride it, let the O2 sensors do their thing....

[Dobeman2000]

I would like to do this and probably will intially- but guessing that I will get quite a bit of popping on decceleration (wife's screamin eagle slip ons have a bit-not a big deal, but I don't like it either.  And on my bike I know I won't tolerate it.  So, will give it a try and see what happens.

Put the cans on it and ride it, let the O2 sensors do their thing....

[miker]

It may take a while for the ecm to return to stoch...make sure they are on snug, no leaky.

[Nicky Pass]

http://m.

It literally takes 2 minutes start to finish. Jamie from Fuel Moto is a genius when it comes to tuning!  If you are in Il, close to Chicago....Jim Egizio at Illinois Harley is a very good tuner using the SERT.

[Z06_Pilot]

http://m.

It literally takes 2 minutes start to finish. Jamie from Fuel Moto is a genius when it comes to tuning!  If you are in Il, close to Chicago....Jim Egizio at Illinois Harley is a very good tuner using the SERT.

I'm sold!  Also, I see that Fuel Moto is offering $150 trade-in on a fueler.  I can trade-in my POS  TV-3 auto tuner that I tried a year or so ago on my V-Rod, bringing the price of the Power Vision to $399....I'm really sold now 

[Nicky Pass]

I'm sold!  Also, I see that Fuel Moto is offering $150 trade-in on a fueler.  I can trade-in my POS  TV-3 auto tuner that I tried a year or so ago on my V-Rod, bringing the price of the Power Vision to $399....I'm really sold now 

Jamie's map will probably be with 90-95% perfect.

[Dobeman2000]

I looked at the power vision quickly-$499!!  Can it tune a number of bikes, or is it "married" to one ECM-it appears that it can tune any bike?  Also, talked to my local Indy guy and he said they just mount the PCV behind the fender- have done it many times and no problems- I didn't dicuss it with him, but what about the unit getting wet? 

[Nicky Pass]

I believe there was supposed to be a $100 "2nd bike code".  If you are looking for ease, you can't beat the Power Vision.  It is also a diagnostic code reader, and there is supposed to be update where you can tune on the fly also....

[grc]

The following was copied from the PC website FAQ:
-------------------------
How many motorcycles can I use the Power Vision on?

 The Power Vision will only be able to tune one motorcycle (flash it as many times as you like). It can be connected to other motorcycles to monitor / log data, check and clear DTC’s (diagnostic trouble codes), and reset adaptive learning.
-------------------------

Jerry
 

[Z06_Pilot]

I looked at the power vision quickly-$499!!  Can it tune a number of bikes, or is it "married" to one ECM-it appears that it can tune any bike?  Also, talked to my local Indy guy and he said they just mount the PCV behind the fender- have done it many times and no problems- I didn't dicuss it with him, but what about the unit getting wet? 

You can find it cheaper than $499 at Dennis Kirk.  Regarding moisture.  It's sealed to be moisture resistent.  They explained to me, it would be fine if you are caught in the rain coming home, but don't wash your bike with it on.  Remember, the Power Vision module is actually a display, so I wouldn't think you would try to stow it somewhere on the bike.  Just remove it if you are not interested in mounting in on the handlebars, I would think.

Also, I'm not sure about it being married to a single bike.  I know the HD SERT is(or it was when I was looking at them about 3 years ago).

I have been conversing with both Fuel Moto and Dyna Jet today, and wow, are they helpful!!  Been giving me loads of information.  I sent my old TV-3 fueler today to Fuel Moto and as soon as they post my $150 credit for the trade-in, I will be buying the Power Vision...no if's ands or but's about it...

The user reviews I have found online from several sources are glowing about the product, and more importantly to me, the support...

[skratch]

I looked at the power vision quickly-$499!!  Can it tune a number of bikes, or is it "married" to one ECM-it appears that it can tune any bike?  Also, talked to my local Indy guy and he said they just mount the PCV behind the fender- have done it many times and no problems- I didn't dicuss it with him, but what about the unit getting wet?  

I believe there was supposed to be a $100 "2nd bike code".  If you are looking for ease, you can't beat the Power Vision.  It is also a diagnostic code reader, and there is supposed to be update where you can tune on the fly also....

the powervision is like the sert in that it is married to your bike.  unlike the sert, however, you can get additional licenses to tune multiple bikes.  they are $199 each from dynojet.  the powervision will allow you to switch between the 2 licenses 'on the fly', but if you do have a third bike, you would have to switch to it's license via computer.  so if you're on the road, 2 bikes would be able to be tuned, but not a third (or more).  however, any one of the bikes would be able to use the powervision as a gauge set or code reader.  even a bike that does not have a license.  a lot like to obdII scanners you buy from autozone.  you just won't be able to flash a tune to all the bikes.  but i wouldn't be doing that while on the road anyway.

and yes, it can be found cheaper elsewhere.  but part of what you are paying for is the great support you'll get from fuelmoto.  try to get a map from dennis kirk.....  yes, dynojet does have some canned maps, but the fuelmoto maps are developed in house and proven on the dyno.  thats gotta be worth a few bucks.

[Dobeman2000]

 A lot of good info. here- I will probably go with either a PCV mounted behind the fender or a powervision.  As many of you have said, I know Fuel Moto has a great reputation for customer service.  When I had my PCV on my 05 Deluxe they were very helpful and that bike ran without a hiccup for the 3 years I had it.  The powervision is just significantly more $, and I am a set it and forget it person when it comes to something like this.  Although I guess I could adjust it easily if the system needed some fine tuning.  I'll keep reading and thinking.  I also know I can use a SERT, but I don't like having to go to the dealer unless I absolutely have to- get raped on labor, might as well get the powervision instead of a SERT.

UPDATE:  Spoke with Dynojet about the Power Vision for the Breakout- the rep I dealt with said there are no current maps for it, but if one of us gets the stock calibration and sends it in to them with the components we have added then they can provide a map for it, and then we use the unit to "fine tune" from there.  I am nervous about the fine tuning part, but that is hopefully where Jamie at FuelMoto will help out and let me know what I have to do in order to make things right, or maybe the map itself they provide will be good enough.  All those tables and charts scare me.

[Robin Keegan]

"Spoke with Dynojet about the Power Vision for the Breakout- the rep I dealt with said there are no current maps for it, but if one of us gets the stock calibration and sends it in to them with the components we have added then they can provide a map for it, and then we use the unit to "fine tune" from there."

I'm a bit surprised by this comment.  Whilst they may not have heard of a 'Breakout' before, the engine is a Screamin Eagle 110 unit which has been around for quite a while now so I would think that maps are available?

Just for interest, the ECM on my 2011 CVO Softail Convertible was remapped using a HD Supertuner at a specialist shop using a dyno resulting in an 18% increase in horse power and a 27% increase in torque over the standard factory fit.

[Z06_Pilot]

I did send my factory ECU map to the guys at DynoJet.  A couple of hours later they sent me back a modified version to account for the V/H slip-ons I have.

With all the snow, no chance to ride!  Plan is to try out this map, and then run the built-in auto tune to get it dialed in perfectly.

I agree it is strange they have no selection in the map area for a 110 motor/CVO of any year or model.....I don't get it either....

I'm not too worried about it though.  Based on the rave reviews I have seen everywhere for the PV and the support I have received up til now, I'm happy I went with this fueler....