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Author Topic: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation  (Read 14585 times)

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rdawg

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2013, 04:15:18 PM »

So, didn't the original poster, who is a police officer, state the opposite?  

From EGrunt - "I already knew that state law supersedes over DOT markings but I verified this as well with the CHP."

If I'm reading that correctly, it would turn out that all officers mentioned in this story (including the original poster) are confused as to how to apply the law.  Hmmmm...

Yes he did, not sure what CHP office gave him that info, but in my 29 years the CHP you get different answers depending on who you ask.  I would write a letter to the Commercial Veh Section in Sacramento and they will reply in writing.  Harley would not be selling these if they were illegal with out a disclaimer.
And they look pretty red to me? :2vrolijk_21:


« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 04:30:33 PM by rdawg »
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JCZ

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2013, 05:20:22 PM »

So, didn't the original poster, who is a police officer, state the opposite? 

From EGrunt - "I already knew that state law supersedes over DOT markings but I verified this as well with the CHP."

If I'm reading that correctly, it would turn out that all officers mentioned in this story (including the original poster) are confused as to how to apply the law.   Hmmmm...

"Officer's discreation" can be very broad and very vague.....depending on the officer.

In this thread we've had a CHP Officer and a California attorney post their views and interpretation.  Knowing both of these guys like I do, I don't think either would be accused of making hasty and irrational judgment by anybody.  They both make a convincing argument. 

I put a hell of a lot of miles on a 2010 SESG (has smoked lenses until the ignition is turned on) and I was stopped and wrote tickets more than once on that bike......however, it wasn't for smoked tail lights. Yer honor I submit.....



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JCZ

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2013, 05:22:38 PM »

Yes he did, not sure what CHP office gave him that info, but in my 29 years the CHP you get different answers depending on who you ask.  I would write a letter to the Commercial Veh Section in Sacramento and they will reply in writing.  Harley would not be selling these if they were illegal with out a disclaimer.
And they look pretty red to me? :2vrolijk_21:




Rich, I don't believe he indicated that it was CHP officers that stopped him, he just said "motor officers".  Sounds like LAPD. :nixweiss:


By the way.....that tail light looks very familiar! :huepfenlol2:   I sure hope those are some kind of reflection and not scratches. :nixweiss:
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rdawg

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2013, 05:41:13 PM »

Rich, I don't believe he indicated that it was CHP officers that stopped him, he just said "motor officers".  Sounds like LAPD. :nixweiss:


By the way.....that tail light looks very familiar! :huepfenlol2:   I sure hope those are some kind of reflection and not scratches. :nixweiss:

JC
Yes it is just a reflection.....and a little dirt....didnt know you had illegal lights on it though....
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Gettinold

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2013, 07:32:03 PM »

Sounds like its time to call Arnold Swartzenager! :huepfenlol2:
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dayne66

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2013, 07:38:28 PM »

Sounds like its time to call Arnold Swartzenager! :huepfenlol2:

...thought he wasn't gonna be back!
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EGrunt

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2013, 09:24:52 PM »

Thanks for all the comments and replies. The two officer's that stopped me, one from my agency and the other was a CHP officer. I spoke at length with two CHP Officer's (today not the one that stopped me) via phone up in Sacramento and locally at the Oceanside office. Both CHP Officer's stated the bike needed red tail lamp lens. However the Oceanside CHP Officer stated that it might need to go to court since it came from the factory. Both CHP Officer's agreed that state law in this case the California vehicle code supersedes DOT regulations. In other words, vehicles have to meet federal regulations but the state (in this case California) can add to the regulation but can not reduce it from the federal standard. The Officer from my agency just attended training specifically for motorcycles and they talked at length about lighting modifications. I think the problem is that the only motorcycle that I have seem with smoke tail lamps is the CVO street glide and road glide. I would believe that Harley would have done their home work on all legal requirements prior to releasing the bike. I hate to use the word assume but I think over the years we are use to seeing red tail lamps in both automobiles and motorcycles. There are vehicle being manufactured with clear tail lamps but there is still red in the lens, one vehicle I just saw today is the Toyota Prius, I would say 90% of the lens is clear and the lower portion is red. Here is another point, when reading the CVC section most would interpret the word tail lamp as the bulb that illuminates but when I Google Harley tail lamp pictures it shows nothing but lens and both CHP Officer's again agreed. We also talked about CVC 26101: 26101.  (a) A person shall not sell or offer for sale for use upon or as part of the equipment of a vehicle any device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of any lighting equipment, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device meets the provisions of Section 26104.(b) A person shall not use upon a vehicle, and a person shall not drive a vehicle upon a highway that has installed a device that is intended to modify the original design or performance of a lighting, safety glazing material, or other device, unless the modifying device complies with Section 26104.(c) This section does not apply to a taillamp or stop lamp in use on or prior to December 1, 1935, or to lamps installed on authorized emergency vehicles. Then I need to know if the tail lamps are compliant with CVC 26104: 26104(a) Every manufacturer who sells, offers for sale, or manufactures for use upon a vehicle devices subject to requirements established by the department shall, before the device is offered for sale, have laboratory test data showing compliance with such requirements. Tests may be conducted by the manufacturer.(b) The department may at any time request from the manufacturer a copy of the test data showing proof of compliance of any device with the requirements established by the department and additional evidence that due care was exercised in maintaining compliance during production. If the manufacturer fails to provide such proof of compliance within 30 days of notice from the department, the department may prohibit the sale of the device in this state until acceptable proof of compliance is received by the department. I am educating myself in this matter not only as a owner but for vehicle enforcement matters. I am going to talk with our Traffic Commissioner's to see if CVC 24600(e) deals with just the lighting bulb or the lens assembly as well.

On a positive note I love the bike
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 10:15:01 AM by EGrunt »
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rdawg

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2013, 10:19:11 PM »

Egrunt
I think you will find that the red section on the bottom of the Prius Lamp assembly is a red reflector as well as the sides to comply with 24607 and 24608 VC. 
26101 doesn't apply as these lamps in question have not been modified from their original design / manufacture.  I have only seen the amber ones in the European market, as amber tail lamps on these model years would be a violation in CA.


Good luck in your search and enjoy your new bike!
Rich
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EGrunt

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2013, 10:08:44 AM »

I see vehicles all up and down the state with clear lenses or smoked lenses but they all still light up red when the brakes are applied or the lights turned on.  EGrunt, if you don't mind sharing with us.....what area were you stopped in and was it the same agency that stopped you both times?

I was stopped in San Diego County, the first time was in Oceanside (local PD)and the second time I was in city of San Diego exiting the 163 by the CHP. I work with the guy in Oceanside and since I have been on vacation for the past two weeks no one knew I purchased a new bike. I thought the CHP officer was pulling me over for playing the stereo to loud.
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SocalRGC

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2013, 11:00:50 AM »

Lexus has made the RX330 since 05, I think? The SUV has completely clear taillights no reflector at all.
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CVOStreetglide

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2013, 12:55:20 PM »

Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't a lamp with a smoked lens still glow red when the red LED's or bulbs are activated?  And aren't the tail lamps always illuminated whenever the ignition is powered?  I think someone has gotten carried away in their interpretation of that regulation.  Admittedly the ones I've looked at on Harley's aren't terribly bright even at night, but they do look red to me.  Perhaps the problem comes from the requirement that they be visible from 1000 feet away.  In my experience they aren't all that visible from 100 feet away.

I would suggest that you refer anyone wanting to cite you to the Harley-Davidson Motor Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and the NHTSA.  Supposedly the vehicle met all Federal and State motor vehicle regulations when it was sold, and if some individual LEO's want to start some chit they need to start it at the source, not with the end user.  If a state wants to play jackass after the fact, they need to see about forcing the MoCo to retrofit all those illegal bikes they certified were legal when they sold them in that state.  I'm willing to bet it won't happen, and Federal regulations will trump an outdated state reg.

I personally prefer to maximize visibility with good old fashioned red lenses and bright bulbs, versus the currently trendy stealth approach of smoked lenses.  I was amazed that the Federal government allowed this.  I wasn't amazed that Harley would reduce visibility and safety in the name of style though.

Jerry


+1  :2vrolijk_21:     I would ask your dealer to contact the Motor Company and bring them up to date on the issue. Or, write a letter to the Motor Company and ask for their resolution.

If it's not resolved they have a big recall to do.

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JCZ

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2013, 04:17:11 PM »

JC
Yes it is just a reflection.....and a little dirt....didnt know you had illegal lights on it though....

They weren't illegal until I sold it to a CHP Officer.  :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2013, 04:48:17 PM »

          This is bizarre!!!
Leave it up to the liberal left coast, I am a cop ( 17 years ), and I have NEVER heard of state trumping Feds on motor vehicle laws. On top of all of that, like mentioned in thread, there are currently a bunch of cars being sold that would not be compliant in California. I still have my first car (1979 Pontiac Trans Am) first factory car with smoked tail lights, in 34 years I got stopped ( more times than I like to admit ), but never a problem with tail lights.
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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2013, 05:28:22 PM »


I certainly hope no one is taking this thread seriously and actually worrying about having to modify their bike to avoid a ticket.  All you have here is another case of individual officers "interpreting" a law incorrectly, for whatever reason.  The bike is certified to meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, including standard 108 which covers all exterior lighting.  Case closed.  If you still have doubts, I'd suggest consulting someone higher up the food chain who actually understands the Federal and State relationship when it comes to motor vehicle standards.  Try your state attorney general's office, or contact the DOT or NHTSA.  If you want to have some fun, call the Harley Customer Disservice number and throw this issue in their lap.   

Jerry
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JCZ

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Re: 2013 smoked tail lamps in California, vehicle code violation
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2013, 05:55:10 PM »

I'm with you (and apparently a number of others here) Jerry.....I think it's a non issue.

But I can't say I wouldn't like to see somebody get a ticket for it and let the courts settle it if they are teaching officers to go after this kind of thing.

Rich, have you heard of any training regarding this for the CHP or is it just local agencies getting a bit over zealous like they did for awhile with exhaust?
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Never trade the thrills of living for the security of existence.  Remember...it's the journey, not the destination!

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