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[jdc916]

This has probably been discussed a million times but I need to post the issue again.
If you want / can direct me to the topic, that's cool.

2011 CVO Ultra    Runs too dang hot to enjoy the bike. Looking for a fairly inexpensive fix since $$$ are tight. I'd like to keep the stock pipes if possible.
I don't really want too much more noise. I had changed the pipes on my 08 and it got unbearable !
Can I go with just a tuner, or is that a waste of time if I dont at least get the cat out of the system ?

Also after sitting at a light, you have to gas it before letting out the clutch or it will stall.

Idea's / thoughts      it is completely stock at this point.

Thanks ! 
 

[Heatwave]

If you wanted the absolute cheapest approach for cooling your bike and not replacing a single stock component or even paying for a Dyno, then I would get a PowerVision (PV) with the new Autotuning software. Read here http://www.fuelmotousa.com/site/power-vision.html   and then talk to Jamie.

If you want to get the bike even cooler, replace the headpipe to eliminate the Cat, upgrade the mufflers to freer flowing, add the PV with a map from Jamie and you'll have both a cooler bike and a much more powerful bike.

If you really want some fun ($$$) and a cooler running bike, then get some high quality headwork, upgrade the throttlebody, injectors, cam and exhuast to a 2:1 PLUS a PV which will let you gather data for tuning the bike while you ride it, instead of wasting miles on a Dyno.

The good news with the PV is you will get a benefit from it with a stock bike and yet it will continously improve the bike's performance as you make upgrades without costing a single addition dime for the tuning.

[Midnight Rider]

Tested and proven by hundreds/thousands:  Fullsac X pipe, 1.75" Cores (you don't want it loud), and TTS Mastertune with the canned map provided by Steve at Fullsac.  Best bang for the buck, great customer service, and a quality product.

The only way to really get rid of the heat is to get the Cat out of the headpipe.  Even then, the 110 is just a hot motor, period.  The cat adds a LOT of heat though...

[Fired00d]

Tested and proven by hundreds/thousands:  Fullsac X pipe, 1.75" Cores (you don't want it loud), and TTS Mastertune with the canned map provided by Steve at Fullsac.  Best bang for the buck, great customer service, and a quality product.

The only way to really get rid of the heat is to get the Cat out of the headpipe.  Even then, the 110 is just a hot motor, period.  The cat adds a LOT of heat though...

Just to add one thing that wasn't mentioned since $$ was a concern. Fullsac (Steve) is a (Vendor) member of this site and offers members a discount. See this thread - Fullsac Performance.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Robmay]

This has probably been discussed a million times but I need to post the issue again.
If you want / can direct me to the topic, that's cool.

2011 CVO Ultra    Runs too dang hot to enjoy the bike. Looking for a fairly inexpensive fix since $$$ are tight. I'd like to keep the stock pipes if possible.
I don't really want too much more noise. I had changed the pipes on my 08 and it got unbearable !
Can I go with just a tuner, or is that a waste of time if I dont at least get the cat out of the system ?

Also after sitting at a light, you have to gas it before letting out the clutch or it will stall.

Idea's / thoughts      it is completely stock at this point.

Thanks ! 
 

There's not. There will be tons of info with corroborating experiences to the contrary but IME, after about 80-100 miles, the ECM takes it back to factory AS FAR AS AIR FUEL RATIO go. I have tried SEVERAL fuel management systems as well as professional dynos. They make it run much better, but not cooler. YMMV (but I doubt it).

[murphy]

You could get one of those little misty bottles from the dollar store and give yourself a spritz at every convenience.

[jdc916]

You could get one of those little misty bottles from the dollar store and give yourself a spritz at every convenience.

Thanks Murphy !


And thanks to all the others so far, Murphy's did make me laugh !

[Jswerve]

This has probably been discussed a million times but I need to post the issue again.
If you want / can direct me to the topic, that's cool.

2011 CVO Ultra    Runs too dang hot to enjoy the bike. Looking for a fairly inexpensive fix since $$$ are tight. I'd like to keep the stock pipes if possible.
I don't really want too much more noise. I had changed the pipes on my 08 and it got unbearable !
Can I go with just a tuner, or is that a waste of time if I dont at least get the cat out of the system ?

Also after sitting at a light, you have to gas it before letting out the clutch or it will stall.

Idea's / thoughts      it is completely stock at this point.

Thanks ! 
 

1. get rid of that worthless catalytic converter!

2. Get a tune.

3. Problem solved

[NYSport]

1. get rid of that worthless catalytic converter!

2. Get a tune.

3. Problem solved

Pretty much says it.  I used the full sac and a dyno tune.  Runs great and it's much cooler.  I kept the stock pipes and still has great power and sounds just about perfect for me.

[willyB]

Pretty much says it.  I used the full sac and a dyno tune.  Runs great and it's much cooler.  I kept the stock pipes and still has great power and sounds just about perfect for me.

cat less, tune and lose the lowers above 70 degrees

[Heatwave]

There's not. There will be tons of info with corroborating experiences to the contrary but IME, after about 80-100 miles, the ECM takes it back to factory AS FAR AS AIR FUEL RATIO go. I have tried SEVERAL fuel management systems as well as professional dynos. They make it run much better, but not cooler. YMMV (but I doubt it).

I can speak for both the SEPST and the PowerVision since I've tuned extensively with both. Once you've made a change to the AFR table, the bike's ECM will follow only the values in the AFR table. The ECM has no ability to revert to any other AFR settings than what's in the cells for the table that is loaded to the bike.

If the AFRs are set to a ratio (or Lambda) that are within the closed loop mode for the factory O2 sensors, then the ECM will attempt to manage the VE values to achieve the AFR settings.

If your AFR cells are set to a richer cell # that makes the map go into "open loop", then the engine will get only the VEs settings that are in your VE tables. In other words, the ECM follows exactly what VEs are in the tables.

Either way, the ECM has no ability to change the AFR settings in the map you download into the bike.

From first hand experience I can state that an engine tuned with the Powervision's autotuning, will absolutely run cooler, provided the AFRs are made richer. (This is also true for any other tuner as well.) The advantage of the Powervision is that it provides a digital reading of engine temp while you are riding and stores 6 different maps on the bike. No other tuning device can provide this kind of real time data while you're riding. It also has the ability to easily change maps and then read the exact drop (or increase) in engine temp.

The real beauty of the PV is it's ability to autotune the map in open loop across the entire map using the factory O2 sensors to optimize both the performance and the engine operating temp without requiring a dyno.

I've used the PV's autotuning since it was released several months ago and it is without question the most significant engine tuning advancement (for the $) that has come to the market in a very long time. For the first time ever, an efi bike owner can now tune their bike's engine map using the STOCK O2 sensors across the ENTIRE range of RPMs/loads to optimize the performance of their bike without a Dyno. And then view the performance on the PV's screen while riding. It is the coolest tuning device on the market IMHO.

[Jswerve]

I can speak for both the SEPST and the PowerVision since I've tuned extensively with both. Once you've made a change to the AFR table, the bike's ECM will follow only the values in the AFR table. The ECM has no ability to revert to any other AFR settings than what's in the cells for the table that is loaded to the bike.

If the AFRs are set to a ratio (or Lambda) that are within the closed loop mode for the factory O2 sensors, then the ECM will attempt to manage the VE values to achieve the AFR settings.

If your AFR cells are set to a richer cell # that makes the map go into "open loop", then the engine will get only the VEs settings that are in your VE tables. In other words, the ECM follows exactly what VEs are in the tables.

Either way, the ECM has no ability to change the AFR settings in the map you download into the bike.

From first hand experience I can state that an engine tuned with the Powervision's autotuning, will absolutely run cooler, provided the AFRs are made richer. (This is also true for any other tuner as well.) The advantage of the Powervision is that it provides a digital reading of engine temp while you are riding and stores 6 different maps on the bike. No other tuning device can provide this kind of real time data while you're riding. It also has the ability to easily change maps and then read the exact drop (or increase) in engine temp.

The real beauty of the PV is it's ability to autotune the map in open loop across the entire map using the factory O2 sensors to optimize both the performance and the engine operating temp without requiring a dyno.

I've used the PV's autotuning since it was released several months ago and it is without question the most significant engine tuning advancement (for the $) that has come to the market in a very long time. For the first time ever, an efi bike owner can now tune their bike's engine map using the STOCK O2 sensors across the ENTIRE range of RPMs/loads to optimize the performance of their bike without a Dyno. And then view the performance on the PV's screen while riding. It is the coolest tuning device on the market IMHO.

Thank you for taking the time to explain that very informative. I have the Power Vision and I have only so far used it to install a preloaded map that Fuelmoto provided when I made the purchase(it runs super). I have not used the autotune function yet but I would really like to once the weather gets back to nice.

[phato1]

Tested and proven by hundreds/thousands:  Fullsac X pipe, 1.75" Cores (you don't want it loud), and TTS Mastertune with the canned map provided by Steve at Fullsac.  Best bang for the buck, great customer service, and a quality product.

The only way to really get rid of the heat is to get the Cat out of the headpipe.  Even then, the 110 is just a hot motor, period.  The cat adds a LOT of heat though...

+1
Using this setup on my FLHTCUSE6 and loving it, and the cost was around 1100 bucks for all the needed parts with a couple hours labor in the garage on a rainy - or cold day this time of year. You will find a lot of us here using the Fullsac systems to get rid of the CAT and the associated heat.

[Heatwave]

Thank you for taking the time to explain that very informative. I have the Power Vision and I have only so far used it to install a preloaded map that Fuelmoto provided when I made the purchase(it runs super). I have not used the autotune function yet but I would really like to once the weather gets back to nice.

Once you start using the autotune feature, you'll be able to lower the temp of the stock setup without spending another dime. Once you've lowered the AFRs in your engine map, the temps will come down further. Replacing the head pipe with a non-cat pipe combined with freer flowing mufflers will lower the temps even further. You'll be thrilled with the performance and cooler running engine as you learn more about the PV's capabilities and begin auto-tuning. Good luck.

[murphy]

The misty spritzer bottle is way cheaper than a tune, and you can keep it if you sell the bike!

[King Glide]

The easiest way to cool it is take the lowers off, it's the cheapest too.

[Fatboy]

The misty spritzer bottle is way cheaper than a tune, and you can keep it if you sell the bike!

Or we could all just skip the misty spritzer bottler move to Canada and leave the entire process to Mother Nature. 

While there we could also tap into Murph's liqour cabinet to help chill further if needed.

[Jswerve]

The easiest way to cool it is take the lowers off, it's the cheapest too.

I'm not taking off my speakers!!!

[timo482]

you could install a FL-XIED-10 its 100 bux - will richen the mixture just a bit - cool the engine - easy to remove when you take it to the dealer.

designed specifically to cool stone stock bikes. no computer, no big bux, no modifications

to

[blacktop]

Tested and proven by hundreds/thousands:  Fullsac X pipe, 1.75" Cores (you don't want it loud), and TTS Mastertune with the canned map provided by Steve at Fullsac.  Best bang for the buck, great customer service, and a quality product.

The only way to really get rid of the heat is to get the Cat out of the headpipe.  Even then, the 110 is just a hot motor, period.  The cat adds a LOT of heat though...

Would the bike be any louder if one used the 1.75" Fullsac cores and removed the cat? I don't want it any louder than stock but would like to get rid of the heat from the cat.

[grc]

The best way to eliminate the heat from a Harley is to turn the ignition switch counterclockwise until things become very quiet.  This method is guaranteed to work every time.

Jerry

[xsdbs]

I'm not taking off my speakers!!!

I removed the vent doors from my lowers, keep the speakers, get more (cooling) air...

[Heatwave]

Would the bike be any louder if one used the 1.75" Fullsac cores and removed the cat? I don't want it any louder than stock but would like to get rid of the heat from the cat.

I had the FullSac 2" and 2.25" cores in my stock mufflers before going to a D&D FatCat with Performance cores and a ghost pipe. The 2.25" core was only slightly louder than the 2" so I would guess the 2" is only slightly louder than 1.75". If you're keeping the engine stock, then the 1.75" would be a nice modest upgrade with a freer flowing exhaust and only a very minimal increase in volume. My recommendation if you're planning to upgrade the muffler cores is to invest in an upgraded headpipe (without a Cat) and then store your stock Cat headpipe should the government decide to invade your privacy further and check the inside of your exhaust header. If they do, at least you could swap back to the stock headpipe.

[Jswerve]

I removed the vent doors from my lowers, keep the speakers, get more (cooling) air...

Yeah that I don't mind 

[ultrafxr]

I have the Fullsac 1.75" cores on my '07 cuse2 and they are definitely louder than stock . . . but not nearly as loud as the D&D Fat Cats I had previously (even with their 'quiet baffle.')  I use earplugs all the time so the Fullsacs are not at all objectionable but they do bark when you get on it.  A friend has the 2" Fullsacs and they are much louder than the 1.75" imo . . . and too loud for me.

[georgw221]

Would the bike be any louder if one used the 1.75" Fullsac cores and removed the cat? I don't want it any louder than stock but would like to get rid of the heat from the cat.

If you want it Not any LOUDER than Stock and COOLER,,Try

1.Cycleshack's New Headpipe
2.Supertrapp Fatshots 
3.PV

[North Georgia Hawg]

Did you know that every new Harley sold in Canada comes with a standard snow shovel and chains for the tires? And did you know that the entire country of Canada has at least 6 feet of snow every month of the year and some places in Canada have 100 feet of snow?

Oh, forgot to mention that we all live in igloos and it is always at least -40 below.....

Well, that about covers the cooling issues!

No one has mentioned cams in this thread yet. Getting ride of the AWFUL SE 255 cams with all of their early-on compression due to their very short intake duration (211) will allow the bike to run noticeably cooler, by improving the breathing and reducing the cranking pressure.

I used to run the Andrews 54H cams (238/238) when I had the Fullsac X-Pipe and 2" baffles (GREAT setup!), and now I run SE 259e cams with the Drago's S/C/S-4 2-1 pipe because the big Drago's pipe really needs the long duration (246/250) of these cams. This setup is LOUD... and I mean VERY LOUD! Just low growling tones tho... no tinny high-frequency noise.

Now that the Andrews 57H cams are out, those would be great with the X-pipe, too.

Ken

[grc]

Yup, part of the problem is indeed created by the emission friendly cams.  On the other side of the coin, the stock cams pull very well from very low rpm, which is kind of nice with a 900 pound bagger.

Jerry

[Fatboy]

Did you know that every new Harley sold in Canada comes with a standard snow shovel and chains for the tires? And did you know that the entire country of Canada has at least 6 feet of snow every month of the year and some places in Canada have 100 feet of snow?

Oh, forgot to mention that we all live in igloos and it is always at least -40 below.....

Not my day obviously missed my Gold Key by 1 model year, the two story Igloo we put up over New Years is down to a single story with a droopy ceiling and now I find I've missed out my MOCO shovel and chains by less then 100 miles as the crow fly's........     

[phato1]

Would the bike be any louder if one used the 1.75" Fullsac cores and removed the cat? I don't want it any louder than stock but would like to get rid of the heat from the cat.

Just removing the CAT will make the exhaust note louder than bone stock..

 but I'm using the FULLSAC X-Pipe "C" version and the 1.75" baffles with the stock packing re-installed around the baffles. The exhaust note at idle will not bother anyone - when I accelerate strongly it bellows nicely (again not obnoxious IMHO) and at cruise it is deep and mellow without wearing you out. I can still hear the stereo system just fine and the wife and I can carry on a conversation while under way WITHOUT the headset thingies.

[concreteartist]

I also went with the fullsac cat less headpipe and 2 inch cores and factory packing on my 2012 FLHXSE3.  I like the sound.  At idle very little difference than stock but when you roll on the throttle it has a nice mellow sound.  Heat was significantly reduced but not totally eliminated.  I had noticed the same issue as you at the stoplight before I made the changes and think it is due to the heat causing the bike to shut the rear cylinder down.  If you try to release the clutch with the rear cylinder shut down it will obviously stall so you have to roll the throttle to return to normal isle mode.  The fullsac items are an easy install, even the programming was simple and I am very clumsy with computers.

[jdc916]

Just removing the CAT will make the exhaust note louder than bone stock..

 but I'm using the FULLSAC X-Pipe "C" version and the 1.75" baffles with the stock packing re-installed around the baffles. The exhaust note at idle will not bother anyone - when I accelerate strongly it bellows nicely (again not obnoxious IMHO) and at cruise it is deep and mellow without wearing you out. I can still hear the stereo system just fine and the wife and I can carry on a conversation while under way WITHOUT the headset thingies.

Thanks phato1 !  I was wondering about the stock packing material.   Whats the C version tho ?   I dont see that on their site.

Was also wondering if I could just reuse the stock mufflers. Still doing some research   but i'm leaning in this direction.

[jdc916]

The fullsac items are an easy install, even the programming was simple and I am very clumsy with computers.

Thanks concrete   I was wondering if this was a mod I could do.   I'm pretty mechanical, but as of now I don't even do the fluid changes.
That may change if I can pull this off though !

[grc]

One additional consideration for those who are thinking about removing the insulation from the stock muffler cans;  that stuff is not strictly for sound control, but also helps "insulate" the pretty chrome surface and reduce bluing and other heat related nasties.  I think if it were me I'd leave it alone.  If you decide after installing the new baffles that you want to remove it, it's not that tough to pop the baffles out and do so. 

Jerry

[Heatwave]

Do yourself a favor...leave the packing in after you replace the baffle. Without the packing the exhaust sound is very "harsh" and tinny. With the packing, the sound is deeper and more HD-like. Plus as others have said you'll have an increased risk of bluing the cans.

Also be careful when dremeling the weld spots to remove the stock baffles. If you're not paying close attention, its easy to cut through the chrome from the inside and/or overy heat it.

[Robmay]

I can speak for both the SEPST and the PowerVision since I've tuned extensively with both. Once you've made a change to the AFR table, the bike's ECM will follow only the values in the AFR table. The ECM has no ability to revert to any other AFR settings than what's in the cells for the table that is loaded to the bike.

If the AFRs are set to a ratio (or Lambda) that are within the closed loop mode for the factory O2 sensors, then the ECM will attempt to manage the VE values to achieve the AFR settings.

If your AFR cells are set to a richer cell # that makes the map go into "open loop", then the engine will get only the VEs settings that are in your VE tables. In other words, the ECM follows exactly what VEs are in the tables.

Either way, the ECM has no ability to change the AFR settings in the map you download into the bike.

From first hand experience I can state that an engine tuned with the Powervision's autotuning, will absolutely run cooler, provided the AFRs are made richer. (This is also true for any other tuner as well.) The advantage of the Powervision is that it provides a digital reading of engine temp while you are riding and stores 6 different maps on the bike. No other tuning device can provide this kind of real time data while you're riding. It also has the ability to easily change maps and then read the exact drop (or increase) in engine temp.

The real beauty of the PV is it's ability to autotune the map in open loop across the entire map using the factory O2 sensors to optimize both the performance and the engine operating temp without requiring a dyno.

I've used the PV's autotuning since it was released several months ago and it is without question the most significant engine tuning advancement (for the $) that has come to the market in a very long time. For the first time ever, an efi bike owner can now tune their bike's engine map using the STOCK O2 sensors across the ENTIRE range of RPMs/loads to optimize the performance of their bike without a Dyno. And then view the performance on the PV's screen while riding. It is the coolest tuning device on the market IMHO.

Please hear my heart on this, I understand exactly what you are saying, but this has not been my experience on each bike I have owned with TBW. This includes two cvo's with 110" motors as well as a 96" converted by the dealer to a 103".

I've had a stoich gauge on my bike after adjustments were made to the AFR. The gauge starts in the green and dials right back to the red within 100 miles. I have a friend who has used the same method with the same results.

I specifically put off spending the dyno money because I felt it would not help with the heat. As mentioned before, it runs much better (mostly) now since tuned but is still hot. For example, on a ride this past weekend with temps in the upper 60's and low 70's, my right calf was getting enough heat to make it uncomfortable. I had to keep adjusting my foot position to get some relief.  This was the same on my 2010 103" and my 2009 110". The only relief I get is when it is cold enough to wear my chaps or I remove the lowers altogether. Sometimes I can still feel it thru my chaps, but it is usually not uncomfortable. When it is colder out (50's and below) no problems at all.

I do not have any experience with the tuner you mentioned so maybe that is the difference. I have experience with 3 others though and for some to say change the pipes, get a tuner and a tune or dyno and it all goes away....that has not been my experience.

Rob

[Heatwave]

Please hear my heart on this, I understand exactly what you are saying, but this has not been my experience on each bike I have owned with TBW. This includes two cvo's with 110" motors as well as a 96" converted by the dealer to a 103".

I've had a stoich gauge on my bike after adjustments were made to the AFR. The gauge starts in the green and dials right back to the red within 100 miles. I have a friend who has used the same method with the same results.

I specifically put off spending the dyno money because I felt it would not help with the heat. As mentioned before, it runs much better (mostly) now since tuned but is still hot. For example, on a ride this past weekend with temps in the upper 60's and low 70's, my right calf was getting enough heat to make it uncomfortable. I had to keep adjusting my foot position to get some relief.  This was the same on my 2010 103" and my 2009 110". The only relief I get is when it is cold enough to wear my chaps or I remove the lowers altogether. Sometimes I can still feel it thru my chaps, but it is usually not uncomfortable. When it is colder out (50's and below) no problems at all.

I do not have any experience with the tuner you mentioned so maybe that is the difference. I have experience with 3 others though and for some to say change the pipes, get a tuner and a tune or dyno and it all goes away....that has not been my experience.

Rob

Thanks for sharing your perspective. One of the things that's really helpful about the PowerVision is that it eliminates annecdotal findings like trying to compare what one person felt as heat on their leg compared to someone else's bike. Its factual and irrefutable. The tuner has the ability to store 6 different ECM maps "on-board". It also provides a display screen that can be attractively attached to your dash/handlebar that shows in both realtime and recorded what your engine's temp is as seen by the ECM. So instead of trying to evaluate the heat on your leg and whether it is hotter or cooler, you can actually compare the engine's temps on the same day, under similar riding conditions and compare it to a different map you have on the PV. You can stop for a quick 1 minute break, change over the map on the road (no laptop needed), and then continue the ride and see the actual engine temps while you're riding.

No other tuner can do this. And in addition to this capability, you can place the PV in autotune mode. Go for a ride. After collecting data (using the PV) under various riding conditions for the way you ride, you can then have the PV update your map to optimize the engines performance against richer conditions that the user can set for a cooler running bike. It works, its real and IMO it has made all other tuning approaches obselete. And it achieves all of this (for efi bikes) with the stock O2 sensors across the entire range of the engine's map. And the cost is comparable to most other tuning options that don't offer a digitial display or the auto-tuning feature. The only capability its doesn't offer is generating HP & Tq #s for bragging rights. You'll still need a dyno if that matters to you.

But from a tuning perspective to optimize performance and cool a bike's engine, it simply can't be beat IMO.

[Jswerve]

Thanks for sharing your perspective. One of the things that's really helpful about the PowerVision is that it eliminates annecdotal findings like trying to compare what one person felt as heat on their leg compared to someone else's bike. Its factual and irrefutable. The tuner has the ability to store 6 different ECM maps "on-board". It also provides a display screen that can be attractively attached to your dash/handlebar that shows in both realtime and recorded what your engine's temp is as seen by the ECM. So instead of trying to evaluate the heat on your leg and whether it is hotter or cooler, you can actually compare the engine's temps on the same day, under similar riding conditions and compare it to a different map you have on the PV. You can stop for a quick 1 minute break, change over the map on the road (no laptop needed), and then continue the ride and see the actual engine temps while you're riding.

No other tuner can do this. And in addition to this capability, you can place the PV in autotune mode. Go for a ride. After collecting data (using the PV) under various riding conditions for the way you ride, you can then have the PV update your map to optimize the engines performance against richer conditions that the user can set for a cooler running bike. It works, its real and IMO it has made all other tuning approaches obselete. And it achieves all of this (for efi bikes) with the stock O2 sensors across the entire range of the engine's map. And the cost is comparable to most other tuning options that don't offer a digitial display or the auto-tuning feature. The only capability its doesn't offer is generating HP & Tq #s for bragging rights. You'll still need a dyno if that matters to you.

But from a tuning perspective to optimize performance and cool a bike's engine, it simply can't be beat IMO.

Well said thanks for sharing!

[Robmay]

Heatwave,

That sounds incredible! All I care about is drive-abilty. All I get from a dyno is my AFR line. I couldn't care less about numbers, just want it to feel right TO ME.


I'll check that tuner out more closely.

Thanks.

[Heatwave]

Heatwave,

That sounds incredible! All I care about is drive-abilty. All I get from a dyno is my AFR line. I couldn't care less about numbers, just want it to feel right TO ME.


I'll check that tuner out more closely.

Thanks.

You won't be disappointed. The PV, now with auto-tuning, let's any efi bike owner squeeze the most of their bike's engine and components for a perfectly smooth running bike that maximizes performance for the given components of the engine and exhaust. The beauty is, that if you change any components, the PV can retune the engine's map and it won't cost you a dime and no lost time/$ on a dyno. Just enjoy the ride while auto-tuning, update the map with the data collected (the update can be done on the road in a matter of a few minutes, if you want), reload the new map and ride away with an updated map that's perfectly matched to your new components. Its a beautiful thing IMO.

[Heatwave]

I presently use the SE Super Tuner however, I think you've sold me on the diversity and cost savings of the auto tuning PV. Does anyone know if there are any problems reflashing, downloading and replacing the Super Tuner with the PV?

No problem at all. I actually had the SEPST first. You could take 1 of 2 approaches. If you like the map you're currently running on from the SEPST, once you have the PV connected, you can just download the map already on the ECM and begin autotuning from your SEPST map as a base map.

The other approach when purchasing from Fuelmoto is that they provide you with free maps that are already tuned for your engine and exhaust configuration.  In this case, you would download the map on the ECM that was created using the SEPST, however the map you would reload to the bike would be the custom map from Fuelmoto. From there you would autotune the map they provide to finetune and match up the map to the way you ride.

Its a pretty straight forward approach. In fact, any map currently on the ECM (regardless of whether it was from the factory or created by any other tuning software) can be uploaded into the PV and saved, auto-tuned or replaced with a map from Fuelmoto.

[phato1]

Thanks phato1 !  I was wondering about the stock packing material.   Whats the C version tho ?   I dont see that on their site.

Was also wondering if I could just reuse the stock mufflers. Still doing some research   but i'm leaning in this direction.

The C version came out last spring. If I remember correctly it was originally intended for use on engines bigger than the 110 - like the 120R or those 110's that had more extensive mods done - when/if you call FULLSAC ask Alice about it.

You could use your stock mufflers if you like just make sure the map you load with whatever tuner you use accounts for the mufflers effects, on the exhaust gas flow and backpressure. I'm no expert using the tuners and manipulating AFR tables and such - others here know much more than I do. I like the TTS purchased from FULLSAC with the package they developed and Steve's' map he sends is spot on and it was easy to use. But as mentioned there are several other options available.

Keep in mind an air cooled engine the size of these 110's is going to generate heat and the exhaust mods will alleviate alot of what you and the passenger feel - but not all of it

[jdc916]

..........

Keep in mind an air cooled engine the size of these 110's is going to generate heat and the exhaust mods will alleviate alot of what you and the passenger feel - but not all of it

Thanks again..........   I realize this motor will generate heat and i'm not trying to get rid of it completely. I am trying to make it more bearable to ride. Even the Service Mgr at the dealership tells me I have to do something. I'll be calling the folks at Fullsac next week !

[Robmay]

Another hot ride yesterday. High around 80F here. At times the heat was okay, then on my right calf, then my right thigh, then my right calf and thigh, then my left and right calf and thigh!

I was thinking that if I had some of those leather lowers I would have pulled over on the way home and removed them. I just happened to speak to a friend who works at a dealership and told him about my ride. I mentioned the leather lowers but that I was concerned about them rubbing the chrome on the engine guard. He said IHE that was not the case. He told me he was going to send me a pair and to try them out and let me know what I think! Sweet!

I just feel that this would be the best option for me and where I live. It seems that not only ambient temps and humidity play a part in when I where I feel the heat, but also if the wind is blowing and which direction! (Seriously).

There are times that when we ride the day temps can be pretty hot and then the night temps way cooler (colder). More so for you folks where you actually have 4 seasons each year. Therefore i think it would be advantageous for myself to leave them off during warmer times and pull over and slap them on when the temps drop or it starts to rain if i need more protection.

I'm not saying the fuel tuner mentioned doesn't do what it said, but I'm getting tired of chasing the rabbit down the hole. 

[Midnight Rider]

I think everyone must have different sensitivities to the heat these motors put out.  All I've done is the Fullsac, 2" cores, and the TTS canned map.  From stock, it is significantly cooler than stock.  If a part of my leg gets hot sometimes, it's the right inner part of my thigh, but even then it's not unbearable.  I leave my lowers on year round, and still have the heat deflectors on.  Middle Alabama is 76 degrees today and 90% humidity, and in the spring/summer, we normally have temps in the 80-95 degree range, sometimes hotter. And always humid.  I do not like it above 90 degrees here, as every time I stop for a couple of minutes in traffic, I start sweating like a prostitute in Church.  And even going down the road, it's like you're being hit in the body with a giant hair dryer on high.  And I just won't ride period if it's above 95 degrees, unless I'm on a trip or something.

Rob, I understand what you're saying, so that's why I say we must be really different in how the heat of the engine feels to our bodies.  And you'd never ride in Florida if you didn't ride at temps above 90 degrees...

[hdaliaconis]

Others have posted this but one more time, remove the cat one way or another and get it tuned with one of the tuners that adjust the VE tables.  It makes all the difference.  Just my opinion.

[Robmay]

I think everyone must have different sensitivities to the heat these motors put out.  All I've done is the Fullsac, 2" cores, and the TTS canned map.  From stock, it is significantly cooler than stock.  If a part of my leg gets hot sometimes, it's the right inner part of my thigh, but even then it's not unbearable.  I leave my lowers on year round, and still have the heat deflectors on.  Middle Alabama is 76 degrees today and 90% humidity, and in the spring/summer, we normally have temps in the 80-95 degree range, sometimes hotter. And always humid.  I do not like it above 90 degrees here, as every time I stop for a couple of minutes in traffic, I start sweating like a prostitute in Church.  And even going down the road, it's like you're being hit in the body with a giant hair dryer on high.  And I just won't ride period if it's above 95 degrees, unless I'm on a trip or something.

Rob, I understand what you're saying, so that's why I say we must be really different in how the heat of the engine feels to our bodies.  And you'd never ride in Florida if you didn't ride at temps above 90 degrees...

To me, hot is hot. If on a ride, your leg gets "warm" enough you have to move it as its uncomfortable...to me....that would be a heat issue. I've used the exact same setup you mentioned, as I said earlier, run better - yes. Fix my heat issue - no.

Maybe it's just me but I feel like an air cooled engine needs, well.... air to cool it. Or, maybe I'm just a pussy. 

[jwalker793]

I have Fullsac Stage 1 which did reduce heat significantly. In an attempt to further reduce heat, I have replaced stock oil cooler with a Jagg oil cooler (10-row low mount w/o fan assist, oil adapter, K&P oil filter) and I am in the process of installing a Jims ForceFlow cylinder head cooler. Will see if this combination eliminates the heat issue.

[hdaliaconis]

As long as you are sitting right over a large air cooled engine there will be heat.  The cops wear heavy duty outer pants with insulated underwear winter and summer.  Insulates your legs from the heat.  Give it a try.

[Fullsac Performance]

As long as you are sitting right over a large air cooled engine there will be heat.  The cops wear heavy duty outer pants with insulated underwear winter and summer.  Insulates your legs from the heat.  Give it a try.

That's a very accurate summary of the situation.

SG

[Boatman]

That's a very accurate summary of the situation.

SG

My feelings too.   I guess no one has ever opened their car/truck hood after driving when 90 degrees out to feel the heat.