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[concreteartist]

I also went with the fullsac cat less headpipe and 2 inch cores and factory packing on my 2012 FLHXSE3.  I like the sound.  At idle very little difference than stock but when you roll on the throttle it has a nice mellow sound.  Heat was significantly reduced but not totally eliminated.  I had noticed the same issue as you at the stoplight before I made the changes and think it is due to the heat causing the bike to shut the rear cylinder down.  If you try to release the clutch with the rear cylinder shut down it will obviously stall so you have to roll the throttle to return to normal isle mode.  The fullsac items are an easy install, even the programming was simple and I am very clumsy with computers.

[jdc916]

Just removing the CAT will make the exhaust note louder than bone stock..

 but I'm using the FULLSAC X-Pipe "C" version and the 1.75" baffles with the stock packing re-installed around the baffles. The exhaust note at idle will not bother anyone - when I accelerate strongly it bellows nicely (again not obnoxious IMHO) and at cruise it is deep and mellow without wearing you out. I can still hear the stereo system just fine and the wife and I can carry on a conversation while under way WITHOUT the headset thingies.

Thanks phato1 !  I was wondering about the stock packing material.   Whats the C version tho ?   I dont see that on their site.

Was also wondering if I could just reuse the stock mufflers. Still doing some research   but i'm leaning in this direction.

[jdc916]

The fullsac items are an easy install, even the programming was simple and I am very clumsy with computers.

Thanks concrete   I was wondering if this was a mod I could do.   I'm pretty mechanical, but as of now I don't even do the fluid changes.
That may change if I can pull this off though !

[grc]

One additional consideration for those who are thinking about removing the insulation from the stock muffler cans;  that stuff is not strictly for sound control, but also helps "insulate" the pretty chrome surface and reduce bluing and other heat related nasties.  I think if it were me I'd leave it alone.  If you decide after installing the new baffles that you want to remove it, it's not that tough to pop the baffles out and do so. 

Jerry

[Heatwave]

Do yourself a favor...leave the packing in after you replace the baffle. Without the packing the exhaust sound is very "harsh" and tinny. With the packing, the sound is deeper and more HD-like. Plus as others have said you'll have an increased risk of bluing the cans.

Also be careful when dremeling the weld spots to remove the stock baffles. If you're not paying close attention, its easy to cut through the chrome from the inside and/or overy heat it.

[Robmay]

I can speak for both the SEPST and the PowerVision since I've tuned extensively with both. Once you've made a change to the AFR table, the bike's ECM will follow only the values in the AFR table. The ECM has no ability to revert to any other AFR settings than what's in the cells for the table that is loaded to the bike.

If the AFRs are set to a ratio (or Lambda) that are within the closed loop mode for the factory O2 sensors, then the ECM will attempt to manage the VE values to achieve the AFR settings.

If your AFR cells are set to a richer cell # that makes the map go into "open loop", then the engine will get only the VEs settings that are in your VE tables. In other words, the ECM follows exactly what VEs are in the tables.

Either way, the ECM has no ability to change the AFR settings in the map you download into the bike.

From first hand experience I can state that an engine tuned with the Powervision's autotuning, will absolutely run cooler, provided the AFRs are made richer. (This is also true for any other tuner as well.) The advantage of the Powervision is that it provides a digital reading of engine temp while you are riding and stores 6 different maps on the bike. No other tuning device can provide this kind of real time data while you're riding. It also has the ability to easily change maps and then read the exact drop (or increase) in engine temp.

The real beauty of the PV is it's ability to autotune the map in open loop across the entire map using the factory O2 sensors to optimize both the performance and the engine operating temp without requiring a dyno.

I've used the PV's autotuning since it was released several months ago and it is without question the most significant engine tuning advancement (for the $) that has come to the market in a very long time. For the first time ever, an efi bike owner can now tune their bike's engine map using the STOCK O2 sensors across the ENTIRE range of RPMs/loads to optimize the performance of their bike without a Dyno. And then view the performance on the PV's screen while riding. It is the coolest tuning device on the market IMHO.

Please hear my heart on this, I understand exactly what you are saying, but this has not been my experience on each bike I have owned with TBW. This includes two cvo's with 110" motors as well as a 96" converted by the dealer to a 103".

I've had a stoich gauge on my bike after adjustments were made to the AFR. The gauge starts in the green and dials right back to the red within 100 miles. I have a friend who has used the same method with the same results.

I specifically put off spending the dyno money because I felt it would not help with the heat. As mentioned before, it runs much better (mostly) now since tuned but is still hot. For example, on a ride this past weekend with temps in the upper 60's and low 70's, my right calf was getting enough heat to make it uncomfortable. I had to keep adjusting my foot position to get some relief.  This was the same on my 2010 103" and my 2009 110". The only relief I get is when it is cold enough to wear my chaps or I remove the lowers altogether. Sometimes I can still feel it thru my chaps, but it is usually not uncomfortable. When it is colder out (50's and below) no problems at all.

I do not have any experience with the tuner you mentioned so maybe that is the difference. I have experience with 3 others though and for some to say change the pipes, get a tuner and a tune or dyno and it all goes away....that has not been my experience.

Rob

[Heatwave]

Please hear my heart on this, I understand exactly what you are saying, but this has not been my experience on each bike I have owned with TBW. This includes two cvo's with 110" motors as well as a 96" converted by the dealer to a 103".

I've had a stoich gauge on my bike after adjustments were made to the AFR. The gauge starts in the green and dials right back to the red within 100 miles. I have a friend who has used the same method with the same results.

I specifically put off spending the dyno money because I felt it would not help with the heat. As mentioned before, it runs much better (mostly) now since tuned but is still hot. For example, on a ride this past weekend with temps in the upper 60's and low 70's, my right calf was getting enough heat to make it uncomfortable. I had to keep adjusting my foot position to get some relief.  This was the same on my 2010 103" and my 2009 110". The only relief I get is when it is cold enough to wear my chaps or I remove the lowers altogether. Sometimes I can still feel it thru my chaps, but it is usually not uncomfortable. When it is colder out (50's and below) no problems at all.

I do not have any experience with the tuner you mentioned so maybe that is the difference. I have experience with 3 others though and for some to say change the pipes, get a tuner and a tune or dyno and it all goes away....that has not been my experience.

Rob

Thanks for sharing your perspective. One of the things that's really helpful about the PowerVision is that it eliminates annecdotal findings like trying to compare what one person felt as heat on their leg compared to someone else's bike. Its factual and irrefutable. The tuner has the ability to store 6 different ECM maps "on-board". It also provides a display screen that can be attractively attached to your dash/handlebar that shows in both realtime and recorded what your engine's temp is as seen by the ECM. So instead of trying to evaluate the heat on your leg and whether it is hotter or cooler, you can actually compare the engine's temps on the same day, under similar riding conditions and compare it to a different map you have on the PV. You can stop for a quick 1 minute break, change over the map on the road (no laptop needed), and then continue the ride and see the actual engine temps while you're riding.

No other tuner can do this. And in addition to this capability, you can place the PV in autotune mode. Go for a ride. After collecting data (using the PV) under various riding conditions for the way you ride, you can then have the PV update your map to optimize the engines performance against richer conditions that the user can set for a cooler running bike. It works, its real and IMO it has made all other tuning approaches obselete. And it achieves all of this (for efi bikes) with the stock O2 sensors across the entire range of the engine's map. And the cost is comparable to most other tuning options that don't offer a digitial display or the auto-tuning feature. The only capability its doesn't offer is generating HP & Tq #s for bragging rights. You'll still need a dyno if that matters to you.

But from a tuning perspective to optimize performance and cool a bike's engine, it simply can't be beat IMO.

[Jswerve]

Thanks for sharing your perspective. One of the things that's really helpful about the PowerVision is that it eliminates annecdotal findings like trying to compare what one person felt as heat on their leg compared to someone else's bike. Its factual and irrefutable. The tuner has the ability to store 6 different ECM maps "on-board". It also provides a display screen that can be attractively attached to your dash/handlebar that shows in both realtime and recorded what your engine's temp is as seen by the ECM. So instead of trying to evaluate the heat on your leg and whether it is hotter or cooler, you can actually compare the engine's temps on the same day, under similar riding conditions and compare it to a different map you have on the PV. You can stop for a quick 1 minute break, change over the map on the road (no laptop needed), and then continue the ride and see the actual engine temps while you're riding.

No other tuner can do this. And in addition to this capability, you can place the PV in autotune mode. Go for a ride. After collecting data (using the PV) under various riding conditions for the way you ride, you can then have the PV update your map to optimize the engines performance against richer conditions that the user can set for a cooler running bike. It works, its real and IMO it has made all other tuning approaches obselete. And it achieves all of this (for efi bikes) with the stock O2 sensors across the entire range of the engine's map. And the cost is comparable to most other tuning options that don't offer a digitial display or the auto-tuning feature. The only capability its doesn't offer is generating HP & Tq #s for bragging rights. You'll still need a dyno if that matters to you.

But from a tuning perspective to optimize performance and cool a bike's engine, it simply can't be beat IMO.

Well said thanks for sharing!

[Robmay]

Heatwave,

That sounds incredible! All I care about is drive-abilty. All I get from a dyno is my AFR line. I couldn't care less about numbers, just want it to feel right TO ME.


I'll check that tuner out more closely.

Thanks.

[Heatwave]

Heatwave,

That sounds incredible! All I care about is drive-abilty. All I get from a dyno is my AFR line. I couldn't care less about numbers, just want it to feel right TO ME.


I'll check that tuner out more closely.

Thanks.

You won't be disappointed. The PV, now with auto-tuning, let's any efi bike owner squeeze the most of their bike's engine and components for a perfectly smooth running bike that maximizes performance for the given components of the engine and exhaust. The beauty is, that if you change any components, the PV can retune the engine's map and it won't cost you a dime and no lost time/$ on a dyno. Just enjoy the ride while auto-tuning, update the map with the data collected (the update can be done on the road in a matter of a few minutes, if you want), reload the new map and ride away with an updated map that's perfectly matched to your new components. Its a beautiful thing IMO.

[Heatwave]

I presently use the SE Super Tuner however, I think you've sold me on the diversity and cost savings of the auto tuning PV. Does anyone know if there are any problems reflashing, downloading and replacing the Super Tuner with the PV?

No problem at all. I actually had the SEPST first. You could take 1 of 2 approaches. If you like the map you're currently running on from the SEPST, once you have the PV connected, you can just download the map already on the ECM and begin autotuning from your SEPST map as a base map.

The other approach when purchasing from Fuelmoto is that they provide you with free maps that are already tuned for your engine and exhaust configuration.  In this case, you would download the map on the ECM that was created using the SEPST, however the map you would reload to the bike would be the custom map from Fuelmoto. From there you would autotune the map they provide to finetune and match up the map to the way you ride.

Its a pretty straight forward approach. In fact, any map currently on the ECM (regardless of whether it was from the factory or created by any other tuning software) can be uploaded into the PV and saved, auto-tuned or replaced with a map from Fuelmoto.

[phato1]

Thanks phato1 !  I was wondering about the stock packing material.   Whats the C version tho ?   I dont see that on their site.

Was also wondering if I could just reuse the stock mufflers. Still doing some research   but i'm leaning in this direction.

The C version came out last spring. If I remember correctly it was originally intended for use on engines bigger than the 110 - like the 120R or those 110's that had more extensive mods done - when/if you call FULLSAC ask Alice about it.

You could use your stock mufflers if you like just make sure the map you load with whatever tuner you use accounts for the mufflers effects, on the exhaust gas flow and backpressure. I'm no expert using the tuners and manipulating AFR tables and such - others here know much more than I do. I like the TTS purchased from FULLSAC with the package they developed and Steve's' map he sends is spot on and it was easy to use. But as mentioned there are several other options available.

Keep in mind an air cooled engine the size of these 110's is going to generate heat and the exhaust mods will alleviate alot of what you and the passenger feel - but not all of it

[jdc916]

..........

Keep in mind an air cooled engine the size of these 110's is going to generate heat and the exhaust mods will alleviate alot of what you and the passenger feel - but not all of it

Thanks again..........   I realize this motor will generate heat and i'm not trying to get rid of it completely. I am trying to make it more bearable to ride. Even the Service Mgr at the dealership tells me I have to do something. I'll be calling the folks at Fullsac next week !

[Robmay]

Another hot ride yesterday. High around 80F here. At times the heat was okay, then on my right calf, then my right thigh, then my right calf and thigh, then my left and right calf and thigh!

I was thinking that if I had some of those leather lowers I would have pulled over on the way home and removed them. I just happened to speak to a friend who works at a dealership and told him about my ride. I mentioned the leather lowers but that I was concerned about them rubbing the chrome on the engine guard. He said IHE that was not the case. He told me he was going to send me a pair and to try them out and let me know what I think! Sweet!

I just feel that this would be the best option for me and where I live. It seems that not only ambient temps and humidity play a part in when I where I feel the heat, but also if the wind is blowing and which direction! (Seriously).

There are times that when we ride the day temps can be pretty hot and then the night temps way cooler (colder). More so for you folks where you actually have 4 seasons each year. Therefore i think it would be advantageous for myself to leave them off during warmer times and pull over and slap them on when the temps drop or it starts to rain if i need more protection.

I'm not saying the fuel tuner mentioned doesn't do what it said, but I'm getting tired of chasing the rabbit down the hole. 

[Midnight Rider]

I think everyone must have different sensitivities to the heat these motors put out.  All I've done is the Fullsac, 2" cores, and the TTS canned map.  From stock, it is significantly cooler than stock.  If a part of my leg gets hot sometimes, it's the right inner part of my thigh, but even then it's not unbearable.  I leave my lowers on year round, and still have the heat deflectors on.  Middle Alabama is 76 degrees today and 90% humidity, and in the spring/summer, we normally have temps in the 80-95 degree range, sometimes hotter. And always humid.  I do not like it above 90 degrees here, as every time I stop for a couple of minutes in traffic, I start sweating like a prostitute in Church.  And even going down the road, it's like you're being hit in the body with a giant hair dryer on high.  And I just won't ride period if it's above 95 degrees, unless I'm on a trip or something.

Rob, I understand what you're saying, so that's why I say we must be really different in how the heat of the engine feels to our bodies.  And you'd never ride in Florida if you didn't ride at temps above 90 degrees...