Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[100HP]

   Ok, would somebody tell me why the CFR's are suppose to be so hard to tune. I now have a Fullsac X pipe, 2.25 cores and Woods TW-555 cams in a 2011 SESG. 101hp and 115tq. Oh, and I just added Fuel Moto's X-over pipe for the cross over.  I've read that they are hard to tune and not to use the X pipe with CFR's. I haven't seen where anyone says why. May have missed it.  I have a chance to purchase a set of black originals for 200.00. Guy doesn't like the looks.    Hillside, Doc, Steve, others??  Thanks

[jr1000yarder]

   Ok, would somebody tell me why the CFR's are suppose to be so hard to tune. I now have a Fullsac X pipe, 2.25 cores and Woods TW-555 cams in a 2011 SESG. 101hp and 115tq. Oh, and I just added Fuel Moto's X-over pipe for the cross over.  I've read that they are hard to tune and not to use the X pipe with CFR's. I haven't seen where anyone says why. May have missed it.  I have a chance to purchase a set of black originals for 200.00. Guy doesn't like the looks.    Hillside, Doc, Steve, others??  Thanks

They will tune but....

The early low rpm torque dip is horrible!!

I tried it and sold them within 200 miles. They sound awesome but you have to ask is it worth 650 for a better sound and loss of performance? 

Your $

Rich

[Doc 1]

   Ok, would somebody tell me why the CFR's are suppose to be so hard to tune. I now have a Fullsac X pipe, 2.25 cores and Woods TW-555 cams in a 2011 SESG. 101hp and 115tq. Oh, and I just added Fuel Moto's X-over pipe for the cross over.  I've read that they are hard to tune and not to use the X pipe with CFR's. I haven't seen where anyone says why. May have missed it.  I have a chance to purchase a set of black originals for 200.00. Guy doesn't like the looks.    Hillside, Doc, Steve, others??  Thanks

Numbers mean nothing.....it's wide open throttle and you're NOT riding there. There is VERY little back pressure from the CFR pipes and with out back pressure to fill the pipe with exhaust gases the 02 sensors won't get a proper reading.....this leads to drivability problems below 3500 rpms. With CFR mufflers you have to decide if you a great sounding bike or a bike that runs well......you can't have both in this case.
Doc

[100HP]

    Doc,  Thanks for the answer as to why??

[loop4re7]

I have dresser duals, CFR mufflers, power comander v with Fuel Moto map. Bike runs great sure don't notice any low end torque issues. Happy camper.

[Doc 1]

I have dresser duals, CFR mufflers, power comander v with Fuel Moto map. Bike runs great sure don't notice any low end torque issues. Happy camper.

You never rode a bike that was tuned well if you don't see any problems with the CFR's.......

[jr1000yarder]

You never rode a bike that was tuned well if you don't see any problems with the CFR's.......

X2

[loop4re7]

Been around long time, lots of bikes. Guess I'm just fat, dumb and happy.

[100HP]

   Doc, Wondering if adding a torque cone or head pipe  baffle would solve or help the low tq problem. Have you had any experience with Big City Thunder Products.  I know that this still would not be your recommendation but my curiosity is up.  Thanks

[Steve Cole]

One of the major things that people really seem to not understand is where are you really riding your bike. Let's for a moment toss out even knowing that a dyno sheet can be made and just go ride you bike as you normally would. Note what RPM range you normally ride in and how much throttle you give it. Take a piece of tape and wrap it around the grip on the inside edge of the grip by the run/stop switch. Draw a line on the tape that lines up with the top edge of the cutout for the run/stop switch. Now twist the throttle all the way open and draw another line on the tape with the cutout again. Now you have 0 and 100 so split the distance in half and draw another line which gets you 50, then split them in half again and you will end up with 0, 25,50,75 and 100. They may not be perfect but it doesn't need to be. Now when you ride you can see about how much throttle your giving it. Most will find that you ride 90% or more of the time at 2000 - 3500 RPM and 10 - 25% throttle. So ask yourself if that would not be the range that you would want most of your improvements in?

With the range you ride in most of the time identified, pick the parts to suit what you want. If your a racer for the track its going to be parts for 4500- 6500 @ WOT. For the most of us, low end torque will be the nicest riding bike around though. This is just why most of you like the feel of the bigger cubic inch engines.

[Doc 1]

   Doc, Wondering if adding a torque cone or head pipe  baffle would solve or help the low tq problem. Have you had any experience with Big City Thunder Products.  I know that this still would not be your recommendation but my curiosity is up.  Thanks

Torque cones will improve low end performance however they also kill top end performance (passing power). TheTQ cones will also alter the sound so now you have to ask yourself is the CFR pipes worth it at all.
Steve Cole is correct....the rpm's that the bike lives at is the worse area for the CFR's.....they are a BUST for performance but the sound is nice....your choice.
Loop4re7, I'm not calling you dumb.....I see this stuff every day and what I said isn't really my opinion..it's dyno proven. Sorry if I offended you.
Doc

[100HP]

  Thanks for the answers and information as to why. Will stick with current Fullsac system and forget the CFR's.. Now I know why he only wants 200.00 for them.

[Rio]

Doc pretty much replied to me with the same thoughts.  He's a super tuner and he knows.  I've abandoned the CFR route too, however I am looking into the Kerker Stouts which have a similar tone but not as loud?  I have the fullsac system now, just bored and i don't like the stock look. 

[elmobiker]

I have a 2012 CVO streetglide first tune and setup was Crusher mellows and x pipe with 57H cam, great power and low end torque 107 hp and 119 trq. and 50 mpg. But was so quite I would about kill it when ridding with other bikes at stop lights. Whet to the new CFR's x-pipe then, tried dresser duals really liked the sound but did loose that low end torque enough to notice. Installed the big city thunder baffles in the mufflers runs great sounds the same have not got it retuned my tuner moved. Also bought 2010 CVO street glide that had the CFR's and a tune done ran good no stumble at low end. Installed my x-pipe on it and the big city baffles sounds and runs great mpg is about 45 need to find a tuner again to see what the numbers say.

[HDGearHead]

I have a 2012 CVO streetglide first tune and setup was Crusher mellows and x pipe with 57H cam, great power and low end torque 107 hp and 119 trq. and 50 mpg. But was so quite I would about kill it when ridding with other bikes at stop lights. Whet to the new CFR's x-pipe then, tried dresser duals really liked the sound but did loose that low end torque enough to notice. Installed the big city thunder baffles in the mufflers runs great sounds the same have not got it retuned my tuner moved. Also bought 2010 CVO street glide that had the CFR's and a tune done ran good no stumble at low end. Installed my x-pipe on it and the big city baffles sounds and runs great mpg is about 45 need to find a tuner again to see what the numbers say.

You had me until you claimed 50 mpg....  I've never heard of or seen anything near that on any Harley touring bike. Even the 45mpg you later claimed is borderline magical IMHO.  You may want to check your speedometer calibration.

[Doc 1]

45 to 50 mpg can be reached however the bike is so lean it's burning up from the inside out.
Doc