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[hrdtail78]

I can take the tune you do, across all kpa with stock sensors and improve on it.

[JJAA]

Those suggesting he should pay for a professional dynotune are unfortunately providing very poor advice.
There's simply no professional tune that will perform any better on an almost completely stock bike than a solid custom map combined with the PowerVision autotuning capability.

+1

I had no particular skills in injection nore tuning.
Discovered this matter with the Powervision, at that time the feature 'autotune' did not exist yet.
Interesting Q&A and much help in the sticky thread in HD forum.
http://www.hdforums.com/forum/electrical-ignition-tuner-ecm-fuel-injection/617661-power-vision-information-thread-sticky-approved-by-admin.html

Later found friends in a local user group club meeting...
The french Dyno importator (?) was invited. He exactly said what Heatwave has !

[tweeter13]

Your going to get a bunch different answers on this one.  You should have picked your top 5 and put it up to a vote.  Lol.  My suggestion would be to ask some of your friends that you ride with ans see if they know someone that uses one of the devices that they might be able to show you how user friendly it would be for you and your skill level and what you are wanting to be able to do and how in depth you are willing to go if you do it yourself with a auto tune.  Jmo


Todd

[Steve Cole]

Think about what you want out of the bike now and what you might want later. If what you have now is all that is will ever get then many tuners will do the job. Some better some worse, but if you might be doing more upgrades down the road you want a tuner that can grow with your modifications instead of having to spend it over again later. Lots of opinions going to be posted but there is not any tuner on the market today that can do any better than TTS Mastertune product when it comes to tuning your bike today or down the road later.

[Heatwave]

Professional tunes have their place, but trust me, paying for a $300-800 pro dyno-tune is an utter waste of $ for a stock engine with only an exhaust change. Anyone suggesting a dynotune on a stock engine with a simple cat removal should be considered very suspect. SEPST and TTS are both equally competent tuning applications in the hands of a knowledgeable user. But both are limited in the ability to autotune. Powervision gives the user the ability to automatically tune across the entire map with stock 02 sensors. On top of that capability, you also get a complete set of guages that will allow you to view engine temp and other parameters without the addition of any other software and gauges since the PV comes with its own touchscreen. Something the other tuning applications do not include.

[hrdtail78]

That's why you pay the money to the the guy that has invested a lot of money into a being a tuner. Equipment, knowledge, all adds up. Not saying you can put a price on it, but I do understand the investment.  I eat, breath, sleep this stuff.  Household depends on it. The guy that spends $20,000 on a bike, and know he needs to know what a VE is?   I also  do 5000 mile services.   Some guys just want to start the bike and ride.

Can't see a "auto tune" device taking the place of a real tune.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

After more than 10 years of efi tuning, at least a half dozen professional dyno tunes on various bikes, extensive experience with SEPST tuner and extensive experience tuning my 110 with the Powervision, I can assure you there's no tuner on the market that can tune a bike across the entire rpm and KPa range using the stock 02 sensors other than the DynoJet Powervision. The OP is looking for a simple and economical way to tune a simple exhaust change with a CAT removed.

Those suggesting he should pay for a professional dynotune are unfortunately providing very poor advice. There's simply no professional tune that will perform any better on an almost completely stock bike than a solid custom map combined with the PowerVision autotuning capability.

I thought about how to post this a few times.. I will be straight forward.

You have made some extremely bold statements .. If you have the experience that you state then you should have no issues showing real world proof of your claims..

I would love to see the data logs and real afr logs and of course they would need to be back up logging at the same time to ensure that data is accurate

[Doc 1]

Save yourself alot of wasted money. Paying for a dyno with a simple exhaust change is an utter and complete waste of $. Get a Powervision, get a custom map that comes free with it, autotune using the Powervision and there's not a single chance that any professional tuner will tune the stock motor any better. PERIOD.  http://www.fuelmotousa.com/site/power-vision.html

After more than 10 years of efi tuning, at least a half dozen professional dyno tunes on various bikes, extensive experience with SEPST tuner and extensive experience tuning my 110 with the Powervision, I can assure you there's no tuner on the market that can tune a bike across the entire rpm and KPa range using the stock 02 sensors other than the DynoJet Powervision. The OP is looking for a simple and economical way to tune a simple exhaust change with a CAT removed.

Those suggesting he should pay for a professional dynotune are unfortunately providing very poor advice. There's simply no professional tune that will perform any better on an almost completely stock bike than a solid custom map combined with the PowerVision autotuning capability.

I don't want to stir the pot here, however there are some things I just can't let go by....this happens to be one of those times. Sorry to say but your advice is bad.....period. When you learn more about what the limits are on these tuners you mention and auto tune systems you will retract your advice.
It's all about data collection and these tuners you say are the best only record 2 frames a second....so wants that mean? good question....at idle you have 8 spark events per second, if your only recording 2 frames per second you missed 6 events at idle....how many more will it miss at 2500 rpm....how big does the holes become at 4000 rpm? The TTS is hitting close to 6 frames per second and that linked to one learning cell in every sixth cell fills the holes the data misses. TTS uses 26 learning cells through out the map....one tuner you mentioned here only uses 6 learning cells in a small area down low.
Believe me the more you learn about this tuning and the ECM the more you realize you have a LOT more to learn.
Doc

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Doc, I thought about going into all of that... glad you did.. 

[grc]

.....................................................................

Can't see a "auto tune" device taking the place of a real tune.

    I agree wholeheartedly.  IMHO the entire "Auto Tune" deal is more marketing than science, and of course we all know how susceptible the Harley market is to marketing hype.  These are the same folks who spend hundreds or thousands on "pretty" oil filters that only filter big chunks, on spark plug wires or spark plugs that claim to add 10 horsepower, on fuel additives that claim to do everything but grow hair and whiten teeth, etc.

What the so-called auto tune devices are good for is maintaining the tune.  The difference is that the stock systems use narrow band sensors and the aftermarket folks use wide band sensors that allow for a wider range of mixture setttings.  But both systems still have to start out with a good base map (the initial "tune"), they don't create one out of thin air no matter what the advertisers may imply.  And forcing the ECM to constantly make corrections of up to 20%, like some of these systems do when the base map isn't a good match, really isn't a great way to do things.

JMHO - Jerry

[grc]

Now for the other part of the equation that tends to get overlooked in all the hype.  Just how important is it for the typical rider of a lightly modified Harley to have the "best possible" tune?  I realize that many have that macho thing working where they think it is important that their bike make more power than the guys they hang out with, but when we are talking about folks who just want to change the pipes and ride like normal people I think a lot of this advice to go with the highest dollar solution is misguided.  Good driveability is all many of us want, not bragging rights or stop light gran prix racing.  We really shouldn't have to pay $900 to get that.

Jerry

[sadunbar]

Now for the other part of the equation that tends to get overlooked in all the hype.  Just how important is it for the typical rider of a lightly modified Harley to have the "best possible" tune?  I realize that many have that macho thing working where they think it is important that their bike make more power than the guys they hang out with, but when we are talking about folks who just want to change the pipes and ride like normal people I think a lot of this advice to go with the highest dollar solution is misguided.  Good driveability is all many of us want, not bragging rights or stop light gran prix racing.  We really shouldn't have to pay $900 to get that.
Jerry

 

Absolutely right, Jerry!  For those who want bragging rights and every last ounce of performance, there are solutions out there for them.  And plenty of opportunities to spend money.

But the majority simply want a nice running bike -  efficient, reduced heat and with improved driveability.  There are plenty of tuning devices out there that can accomplish this goal without breaking the bank.   What gets lost sometimes, is that more important than the actual tuning device, is the skill of the tuner.  I'll take a skilled tuner over any particular tuning device every time.  And while "auto tune" is a nice fantasy, again, I'll take a skilled tuner, and let him chose the device...

All the debates between tuning vendors as to which specific tuning product is more capable of pulling every ounce of performance out of a motor combination tend to end up the same.  Each proponent unwavering in their support of a particular product.  And usually plenty of uneccesary emotion and rudeness along the way.

[Heatwave]

I thought about how to post this a few times.. I will be straight forward.

You have made some extremely bold statements .. If you have the experience that you state then you should have no issues showing real world proof of your claims..

I would love to see the data logs and real afr logs and of course they would need to be back up logging at the same time to ensure that data is accurate

My statements are not bold. They are either statements of fact (such as my experiences, that the PV is the only autotuner that tunes across the full map with stock 02 sensors) or statements of opinion and generally I'm clear when my statements are opinion. They come with a money back guarantee. I owe no more evidence to anyone than has been provided by anyone else posting to the forum.

As stated earlier, Dyno tuning has its place but even that place will become more limited with time. I understand that many tuners have significant investments in equipment, software and training. I have just tuned my EFI 700hp 502SC boat engine and have paid for professional tuning on multiple efi bike builds so I'm a supporter of pro-tuning in the right situations. In most cases the performance results from my dyno-tunes have been excellent. But technology advances. With the exception of professional racers almost no one tunes their efi car engine on a dyno.

The day will come when maximizing performance of a bike engine will definitely not require a dyno, $500 and a pro to do what can be done more economically and with greater sophistication with software and algorithyms.

In the interim, dyno's and pro's do an excellent job optimizing builds that are siginficantly different from stock. But having experienced both extensively, the autotuning capabilities of the PV, I believe (my opinion) have now matched or exceeded the map files for my bike that were done by a pro. This is my opinion and mine alone when comparing top end performance, smoothness across the entire map and low end performance (2300-3000).

For the guy that's making an exhaust swap, I stand by my opinion that the PV autotuning capability will match or exceed any manually adjusted dyno tuned map. Unless you can share your own experience with autotuning using the PV, then I'm afraid any opinions about dynotuning vs PV autotuning are somewhat one-sided and suspect. There's a reason why Dynojet, the maker of the dynos used by almost every pro-tuner, are the developer's and maker's of the PowerVision. They clearly know where the market is heading.

[Fattbaggernknox]

Talking to the guy doing the tune is great advice.  Be careful of "autotune". It's very misleading.  There isn't a real one on the market. More to it than just mapping fuel.  Take the cat out it will breath better and rev faster. Spark needs adjusted also.

For what you got going. I would sell you a direct link key for $250 and tune for $425.  You can't get an "autotune" for that. Good luck.

I was sure one had to be a VENDOR to post items or services such as this on our forum???

[IRISHSE]

Well again thank you for all the responses and sorry to create the controversy that seems to be created on these boards when questions like this are asked.

Correct I'm looking for a tuner that will adjust for the lean conditions the EPA makes Harley use to pass as well as compensate for the CAT being removed on stock exhaust.  I'm not looking for a drag bike reason I bought a touring bike.  I just want the motor to run as efficiently as it can which I know it's not doing that now.

None of my friends have the 110 motor most have the 96 motor so I can't get any real advise from people I ride with.  Was hoping there was a easy answer without spending tons of wasted money. 

Mainly looking for what works without having to spend tons of money on tuning.  Figured as long as the 110 motor has been out someone has already done that.