Topic: Does oil cooler really help (Read 15181 times)

prstaples1911 · « **on:** May 19, 2013, 07:45:54 AM »

I live in St Louis. My bike regularly hits 250 degrees during my commute as measured by my oil temp dipstick . I find the bike so hot that I am considering trading it in on another bike or possibly getting a smaller displacement commuter bike like a Bonneville. Before spending that kind of money I thought I would spend the $400 in parts and labor on an HD oil cooler.

So I thought I would ask if anyone has experience with adding a cooler and if it makes a meaningful difference in dropping engine temps.

cpm83 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 19, 2013, 08:06:13 AM »

As you know, a traditional oil cooler only cools when the bike is moving. I recently installed a Jagg Fan Assisted oil cooler on my bike....in fact the photos of the softail on their website are of my bike. I was the first to install one of these and they asked for photos of the install. I don`t have hard numbers for oil temperature, but I feel like this system makes sense and can only help prolong the life of my oil and engine. Take a look at Jagg.com. I think it is around $500 and I installed it myself.

Charlie · « **Reply #2 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:06:56 AM »

Quote from: prstaples1911 on May 19, 2013, 07:45:54 AM

I live in St Louis. My bike regularly hits 250 degrees during my commute as measured by my oil temp dipstick . I find the bike so hot that I am considering trading it in on another bike or possibly getting a smaller displacement commuter bike like a Bonneville. Before spending that kind of money I thought I would spend the $400 in parts and labor on an HD oil cooler.

So I thought I would ask if anyone has experience with adding a cooler and if it makes a meaningful difference in dropping engine temps.

I Live out in Dubai and as you can imagine it gets pretty dam hot!
I installed the HD Premium Oil Cooler and the Wards Parts Werks Cylinder Head Cooling Fans!
My logic is when im moving the oil cooler should work and when im in stop and go traffic the fans should do their job!
very happy with the results, the bike has never once gone into safe mode since the mods were done,

A shot of the Fans!

Charlie · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:09:06 AM »

A shot of the Cooler and Fans on my Bike,

Charlie · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:12:42 AM »

With the above said, i am looking to make one more cooling mod!
Looking at adding the Jaggs Fan assisted Oil Cooler also! i want to run the Jagg in a loop with the HD Oil Cooler! if i can do that i will be happy i have all the angles covered!

prstaples1911 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:23:08 AM »

Quote from: Charlie on May 19, 2013, 09:12:42 AM

With the above said, i am looking to make one more cooling mod!
Looking at adding the Jaggs Fan assisted Oil Cooler also! i want to run the Jagg in a loop with the HD Oil Cooler! if i can do that i will be happy i have all the angles covered!

That sounds like a sound belt and suspenders approach. With that level of required cooling, I would think a V-Rod would have been a better approach. I will wait until my next customer appreciation day and see if I can get the HD component 20% off. It looks like the HD and Jagg units both hang outside the frame, rather than between the downtubes. I know this probably increases flow, but it is not as nicely integrated into the bike. I wonder if HD does not recommend or support a mount between the tubes.

Charlie · « **Reply #6 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:30:31 AM »

Quote from: prstaples1911 on May 19, 2013, 09:23:08 AM

That sounds like a sound belt and suspenders approach. With that level of required cooling, I would think a V-Rod would have been a better approach. I will wait until my next customer appreciation day and see if I can get the HD component 20% off. It looks like the HD and Jagg units both hang outside the frame, rather than between the downtubes. I know this probably increases flow, but it is not as nicely integrated into the bike. I wonder if HD does not recommend or support a mount between the tubes.

I am mad about cooling! here in Dubai the heat is extreme! 20c min in winter 50 C in summer! have seen days at 55 c in peak
The HD cooler is misleading! in the catalogue it says the central mounted cooler wont fit with ABS but the ABS system is hidden on the Convertible so its not a problem!

A shot of the HD fitted on my 2012 Convertible, between the downtubes!!

Thermodyne · « **Reply #7 on:** May 19, 2013, 09:40:00 AM »

Your money would be better spent on a set of cooling fans for the heads. The oil is being heated in the heads. It carries some of the heat away, but is a poor conductor of heat. And while an oil cooler is not a bad thing to have, you should address the source of the heat first. Take a look at the head fans offered by Wards, they will keep your oil temps down by keeping the heads cool. They cost less than a good oil cooler and they are easy and quick to install. My 11 103 came with an oil cooler, and I still saw the same temps that your are reporting, and even a little more in traffic. Thing is, after building heat in traffic, the oil temps took forever and a day to come back down once I got moving. And the normal temps were in the 220 range, even when it was cool out. The MoCo coolers don't flow oil till it reaches 180f, by which time the temps seem to be beyond the coolers ability to manage.

I went with the Wards fans this just a couple of weeks ago. Fans and a 160f tstat for the oil cooler. Wish I had done it two years ago.

prstaples1911 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 19, 2013, 12:55:36 PM »

So I don't want to stir up any trouble, but if the engine needs an oil cooler (or at least would be better with it), why did HD not fit one at the factory for a few extra bucks on a $30k motorcycle. At the risk of getting philosophical, where is the over-engineering that I see from folks like BMW. Just because it does not meltdown, doesn't mean it shouldn't have had one. I noticed the touring models have them.

Charlie · « **Reply #9 on:** May 19, 2013, 01:05:58 PM »

Quote from: prstaples1911 on May 19, 2013, 12:55:36 PM

So I don't want to stir up any trouble, but if the engine needs an oil cooler (or at least would be better with it), why did HD not fit one at the factory for a few extra bucks on a $30k motorcycle. At the risk of getting philosophical, where is the over-engineering that I see from folks like BMW. Just because it does not meltdown, doesn't mean it shouldn't have had one. I noticed the touring models have them.

No Excuse!!!! All about the extra $$$, as soon as i picked up my Convertible the dealer said "you should get a Oil Cooler Fitted"

Midnight Rider · « **Reply #10 on:** May 19, 2013, 01:16:28 PM »

Quote from: prstaples1911 on May 19, 2013, 12:55:36 PM

So I don't want to stir up any trouble, but if the engine needs an oil cooler (or at least would be better with it), why did HD not fit one at the factory for a few extra bucks on a $30k motorcycle. At the risk of getting philosophical, where is the over-engineering that I see from folks like BMW. Just because it does not meltdown, doesn't mean it shouldn't have had one. I noticed the touring models have them.

Is this your first Harley? HD does not put anything on their bikes that they feel is not absolutely necessary to sell it. That includes CVO bikes. They know that most riders are going to put the oil cooler on and the dealer can make money off of the purchase and installation. Pretty simple. SHOULD they put it on there....YES! But they don't, so your choice is to do it yourself or not.

However, an oil cooler, while helping the oil stay a bit cooler, will do very little at reducing the heat you feel while riding or sitting at a red light. Much of the heat you are feeling is coming off the catalytic converter and exhaust system. A good exhaust system and tune will help that. A 110" air cooled motor is HOT, and on a HD it is exposed, and you're sitting on top of it.

Harley is known for style and tradition. Form over function. If you're looking for state of the art engineering and R&D, you're looking at the wrong manufacturer of motorcycles. They are what they are. If you want it to run a bit cooler, you're simply going to have to spend some more money. No if's, and's, or but's.

prstaples1911 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 19, 2013, 01:28:57 PM »

Agreed on all accounts. At the suggestion of forum members I replaced the stock exhaust with a set of V&H staggered Big Shots and bought a PCV with richer map. That helped a little, but the bike still runs hot. I will start with an oil cooler as it appears to be a reasonable first step and cannot hurt.

Charlie · « **Reply #12 on:** May 19, 2013, 01:34:49 PM »

Quote from: prstaples1911 on May 19, 2013, 01:28:57 PM

Agreed on all accounts. At the suggestion of forum members I replaced the stock exhaust with a set of V&H staggered Big Shots and bought a PCV with richer map. That helped a little, but the bike still runs hot. I will start with an oil cooler as it appears to be a reasonable first step and cannot hurt.

If your worried about the stop and go traffic it would be more prudent to start with the Cylinder Cooling Fans with Thermal switch from Wards Parts Werks! it made the biggest difference IMO and i have done both!!

grc · « **Reply #13 on:** May 19, 2013, 02:02:07 PM »

I agree with Terry (Midnight Rider). If you want top notch engineering and a priority on function, you bought the wrong brand. Harley manages to make huge profits selling "style" and "tradition", so they see no need to offer state of the art function. Besides, the average Harley customer rides less than a couple thousand miles a year, so the bikes don't have to be very good to last long enough to get them out of the short two year warranty. Oh, btw, they do install a so-so oil cooler on Touring models at the factory, but not the Dyna's or Softails.

If you aren't seeing oil temperatures higher than 250°F in the tank, you don't really need an oil cooler. The Twin Cam engine design calls for a normal operating oil temperature of 230°F at a standard ambient air temp (approximately 70°F). And you don't want an excessively low oil temperature, since the oil must get hot enough to drive off the water and fuel that collects in the oil due to the natural operation of the engine. If you decide to install a cooler, get one with a thermostat so you don't have to worry about overcooling in cool weather conditions.

We get a lot of discussions on the site about heat, and many folks fail to differentiate between the temperature of the actual parts, and the heat felt by the rider (comfort). An oil cooler can help extend the life of the oil and reduce the amount of heat induced viscosity loss, but it won't do a thing about how hot the rider or passenger gets. For that matter, those engine fans that blow on the heads also won't keep the rider and passenger cooler. They will help maintain a more consistent temp of the heads, which is a good thing and a sort of mechanical insurance policy. That's one reason why a good water cooled engine can be set up with tighter tolerances and can last much longer than an air cooled engine, "consistent operating temperatures".

Jerry

Jasray · « **Reply #14 on:** May 19, 2013, 06:29:11 PM »

Excellent points by GRC and Midnight Rider, IMHO I completely agree.

Charlie · « **Reply #15 on:** May 29, 2013, 08:25:49 AM »

Has anyone tried the Jims Forceflow Cooling Fan yet?

Sk8convict · « **Reply #16 on:** May 29, 2013, 12:10:29 PM »

I ride a 2011 cvo softail convertible and my rides a 2012 cvo softail convertible.
We installed a standard Harley oil cooler on my bike and there is a HUGE difference in the heat
/ rider comfort. My bike is a whole lot cooler than hers.
So yes it does make a difference.

Charlie · « **Reply #17 on:** May 30, 2013, 11:06:55 AM »

Quote from: Sk8convict on May 29, 2013, 12:10:29 PM

I ride a 2011 cvo softail convertible and my rides a 2012 cvo softail convertible.
We installed a standard Harley oil cooler on my bike and there is a HUGE difference in the heat
/ rider comfort. My bike is a whole lot cooler than hers.
So yes it does make a difference.

Did you just go for the Cooler or did you also go for the Engine Cooling Fans?

miker · « **Reply #18 on:** May 30, 2013, 11:10:40 AM »

For that kinda money, I want my beers kept cold...yikes!

Disclosure: I have no fans....

Sk8convict · « **Reply #19 on:** June 03, 2013, 11:00:06 AM »

No fans. Just the cooler.

Lever · « **Reply #20 on:** June 11, 2013, 10:20:27 PM »

here is the link for the pics of my bike with jags softail fan oil cooler and the oem hd cooler and the werks fan assisted
<div style="width:480px;text-align:right;"><embed width="480" height="360" src="http://pic2.pbsrc.com/flash/rss_slideshow.swf" flashvars="rssFeed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeed209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb296%2FLever03%2Ffeed.rss" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" /><a href="javascript:void(0);" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_geturs.gif" style="border:none;" />[/url]<a href="http://s209.photobucket.com/user/Lever03/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_viewall.gif" style="border:none;" alt="Lever03's album on Photobucket" />[/url]</div>

Charlie · « **Reply #21 on:** June 11, 2013, 11:13:34 PM »

Quote from: Lever on June 11, 2013, 10:20:27 PM

here is the link for the pics of my bike with jags softail fan oil cooler and the oem hd cooler and the werks fan assisted
<div style="width:480px;text-align:right;"><embed width="480" height="360" src="http://pic2.pbsrc.com/flash/rss_slideshow.swf" flashvars="rssFeed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeed209.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fbb296%2FLever03%2Ffeed.rss" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" /><a href="javascript:void(0);" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_geturs.gif" style="border:none;" />[/url]<a href="http://s209.photobucket.com/user/Lever03/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_viewall.gif" style="border:none;" alt="Lever03's album on Photobucket" />[/url]</div>

Hi Lever,
I have been trying for about half an hour and cant get into your photos!
Any chance of putting a couple on the forum?
How was the intall? any problems?
Are you happy with it?
Cheers,
Charlie

0815error · « **Reply #22 on:** June 12, 2013, 06:08:55 AM »

I think this ist the missing link from Lever

http://s209.photobucket.com/user/Lever03/media/06112013361.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Lever · « **Reply #23 on:** June 12, 2013, 06:51:53 AM »

yep that's it .. thank you for fixing it ... Charlie love the cooler no problems with it just got back from vacation bike was flawless

Charlie · « **Reply #24 on:** June 12, 2013, 10:08:36 AM »

Quote from: Lever on June 12, 2013, 06:51:53 AM

yep that's it .. thank you for fixing it ... Charlie love the cooler no problems with it just got back from vacation bike was flawless

Hey Lever, Thanks for the update,
Couple of questions before I order mine!
Are the hoses on the Jags the same diameter as the HD? Want to go braided on the whole set up!
Did you use the HD or Jags oil filter adaptor?
Wear did you get your back rest from?!!
Thanks,
Charlie

Lever · « **Reply #25 on:** June 12, 2013, 08:23:37 PM »

hey Charlie the back rest is part of the ultimate seat . I did used the jagg oil filter adaptor, my indy had to make a 2nd adaptor
...I need to get my oil change very shortly hopefully next week or maybe this Saturday
I need to take some good pics so that I can show you what we done , as far as the hose's go I think they are same size

thanks Lever

Lever · « **Reply #26 on:** June 13, 2013, 09:00:33 PM »

hey Charlie have my apt for this saturday for fluids change so I will take pics and post them later Saturday

thanks lever

Charlie · « **Reply #27 on:** June 13, 2013, 09:30:16 PM »

Quote from: Lever on June 13, 2013, 09:00:33 PM

hey Charlie have my apt for this saturday for fluids change so I will take pics and post them later Saturday

thanks lever

Cheers Lever

Nutdriverss · « **Reply #28 on:** June 13, 2013, 09:55:20 PM »

Yes if your moving.

Charlie · « **Reply #29 on:** June 13, 2013, 10:09:19 PM »

Quote from: Lever on June 13, 2013, 09:00:33 PM

hey Charlie have my apt for this saturday for fluids change so I will take pics and post them later Saturday

thanks lever

Hey Lever,
Any chance you could give me a list of everything I need from Jag for the install!
Don't want to miss anything when I get it shipped over to Dubai,
Cheers,
Charlie

MikeV · « **Reply #30 on:** June 14, 2013, 12:22:10 AM »

+1 for the Wards Parts Werks fans. I just did a 400 mile weekend ride and some of that was in typical NYC choke point traffic getting in and out of the city. I normally dread that part of the ride as the ConV heats up quickly in summertime stop and go traffic. Once that starts parade mode is not enough to keep it cool and you either have to stop or start splitting lanes to keep the bike moving. Well these fans made an incredible difference - the bike has not gone into parade mode since the install. I chose the chrome version and they look great. I had planned on adding an oil cooler as well but with the way the bike ran with the fans, it's just not needed anymore.

Jason has engineered a great product and worth a second look if your ride has the typical 110 heat issues and you haven't done anything yet to address it yet.

MikeV

Lever · « **Reply #31 on:** June 15, 2013, 05:26:47 PM »

hey Charlie ...had to reschedule apt due to rain so it will be this Wednesday the 19th till I can post pics and get all the info for ya

Charlie · « **Reply #32 on:** June 15, 2013, 09:37:39 PM »

Quote from: Lever on June 15, 2013, 05:26:47 PM

hey Charlie ...had to reschedule apt due to rain so it will be this Wednesday the 19th till I can post pics and get all the info for ya

Hey Lever,
No worries, thanks for your efforts,

Lever · « **Reply #33 on:** June 23, 2013, 09:33:42 PM »

Oil filter housing pic

Charlie · « **Reply #34 on:** June 23, 2013, 09:43:43 PM »

Quote from: Lever on June 23, 2013, 09:33:42 PM

Oil filter housing pic

Come on Lever! you can do better than that with a camera!

Lever · « **Reply #35 on:** June 24, 2013, 09:48:56 AM »

yea i know charlie forgot camera...takin with cell phone ... let me try again this week

Charlie · « **Reply #36 on:** June 24, 2013, 10:28:59 AM »

Quote from: Lever on June 24, 2013, 09:48:56 AM

yea i know charlie forgot camera...takin with cell phone ... let me try again this week

Cheers Lever

prstaples1911 · « **Reply #37 on:** July 04, 2013, 12:25:36 PM »

I am having the oil cooler installed Saturday. I am told the model that mounts between the down tubes (model number 26157-07 ) is being discontinued. Most likely due to ABS becoming standard on Softails next year. That is my guess. I wanted to confirm that others installed this model with success. Also, the clutch cable looks like it will be routed directly behind the cooler. I am concerned that the heat from the cooler will harm the fluid in the line. Any experience with that from someone who had the oil cooler installed this way.

Thanks,

Paul

Lever · « **Reply #38 on:** July 04, 2013, 12:38:37 PM »

I have it on my bike no problems

RCFlyer · « **Reply #39 on:** July 04, 2013, 11:16:11 PM »

If you have about 5 beers the picture comes in clearly. Seriously, I have an HD cooler and it works quite well. I'm in upstate NY and the temperatures have been in the upper 80's. My bike still runs cool. I don't think my oil temperature has ever gone over 235. I know it's not as hot as other places, but I did notice a difference after installing it. Also a richer fuel mixture helps keep the engine temperature down.

05Train · « **Reply #40 on:** July 04, 2013, 11:50:35 PM »

I'll dissent.

The Mothership sells the same bike, with the same ECM programming, with the same warranty, in Alaska as it does in Arizona. If it came with a cooler, it needs it. If it didn't, it doesn't. If you add power, it probably does. Run synthetic oil, which is more resistant to thermal breakdown, change it every 5,000 miles, and don't worry about it.

FWIW, an oil cooler is still acting as a heat exchanger, though not as efficiently, when you're not moving.

Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

Mr. Warlock · « **Reply #41 on:** July 05, 2013, 06:02:41 AM »

Quote from: 05train on July 04, 2013, 11:50:35 PM

I'll dissent.

The Mothership sells the same bike, with the same ECM programming, with the same warranty, in Alaska as it does in Arizona. If it came with a cooler, it needs it. If it didn't, it doesn't. If you add power, it probably does. Run synthetic oil, which is more resistant to thermal breakdown, change it every 5,000 miles, and don't worry about it.

FWIW, an oil cooler is still acting as a heat exchanger, though not as efficiently, when you're not moving.

Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

I'll disagree with this one. ALL 110's should have an oil cooler - period. Many buyers don't want to change everything to lower temps or add performance, they just want to ride. All the touring 110's have an oil cooler and the softails with the same motor don't. The added weight of the touring bikes, imo, does not justify the softails getting screwed out of the cooler. The math only adds up correctly at HD corporate.

05Train · « **Reply #42 on:** July 05, 2013, 11:09:32 AM »

Quote from: Mr. Warlock on July 05, 2013, 06:02:41 AM

I'll disagree with this one. ALL 110's should have an oil cooler - period. Many buyers don't want to change everything to lower temps or add performance, they just want to ride. All the touring 110's have an oil cooler and the softails with the same motor don't. The added weight of the touring bikes, imo, does not justify the softails getting screwed out of the cooler. The math only adds up correctly at HD corporate.

Can you document engine damage to CVO Softails due to a lack of a cooler? If not, what do you base your "should" on? The company that builds and warrants that engine disagrees with you.

Not that the MoCo is without fault, just saying that they have a hefty financial stake in not paying out warranty claims.

Jasray · « **Reply #43 on:** July 05, 2013, 04:15:26 PM »

Agree with Warlock on this one, the bike should have a cooler. I love my bike but would never take as firm a stand as 05train defending MoCo engineering.
Fortunately they get most things right, but they have certainly missed a few steps through the years.

JB

05Train · « **Reply #44 on:** July 05, 2013, 09:21:20 PM »

I hate that it sounds like I'm defending the MoCo, but the fact remains that these engines were designed to be air cooled. 90% of the "heat" threads you read are people who expect their bike motor to act like their car motor. They aren't the same.

There are several companies who make a pile of money scaring riders into obsessing about engine and oil temperature. Good for them, I guess. But with all the various Harley forums out there, when was the last time anyone posted anything about their motor failing due to heat? In almost 10 years of reading, I've never heard of a single one.

For me, I'll just ride the bike and change the oil every 5,000 miles. I've done UOA, and without fail, every report shows that I could have gone longer with no negative effects.

But if someone is dead-set on adding a cooler to a stock bike, then more power to them. It certainly won't hurt anything as long as the oil gets up to operating temperature.

Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

Charlie · « **Reply #45 on:** July 08, 2013, 10:13:50 PM »

I'm a 100% with Warlock on this one!

How do they justify the need to put one (Oil Cooler) on the touring models and not the Softails!

Also!!! they sell an engine cooling parade fan! are they saying we need it or not!

SBB · « **Reply #46 on:** July 08, 2013, 11:00:57 PM »

Quote from: 05train on July 04, 2013, 11:50:35 PM

Sent from my iPad, probably while I'm pooping.

Interesting,
Per above you probably post while your pooping.
After reading some of your expert advice on dogs, TBW, oil coolers, CCT's, Frogg Toggs, EBC HH pads, Progressive Shocks, Dyna beads, Road Glides, tire air pressure, I have to wonder how full of poop you really are?
No, never mind, I'm sure you will enlighten us if we wait.

SBB

Sent from my desktop, but not while Glaring any of the bikes.

110tHunDer · « **Reply #47 on:** July 08, 2013, 11:13:49 PM »

Quote from: 110tHunDer on July 02, 2013, 10:58:52 AM

Haven't you gotten tired of that yet?

I guess not!

sadunbar · « **Reply #48 on:** July 09, 2013, 12:26:16 AM »

Quote from: SBB on July 08, 2013, 11:00:57 PM

Interesting,
Per above you probably post while your pooping.
After reading some of your expert advice on dogs, TBW, oil coolers, CCT's, Frogg Toggs, EBC HH pads, Progressive Shocks, Dyna beads, Road Glides, tire air pressure, I have to wonder how full of poop you really are?
No, never mind, I'm sure you will enlighten us if we wait.

SBB

Sent from my desktop, but not while Glaring any of the bikes.

What are you trying to say, Chip?

Oh wait, I get it....

05Train · « **Reply #49 on:** July 09, 2013, 05:13:42 AM »

Quote from: SBB on July 08, 2013, 11:00:57 PM

Interesting,
Per above you probably post while your pooping.
After reading some of your expert advice on dogs, TBW, oil coolers, CCT's, Frogg Toggs, EBC HH pads, Progressive Shocks, Dyna beads, Road Glides, tire air pressure, I have to wonder how full of poop you really are?
No, never mind, I'm sure you will enlighten us if we wait.

SBB

Sent from my desktop, but not while Glaring any of the bikes.

Pithy.

Sorry, I do my own research and don't run with the herd. You don't like my opinions, don't try them. The best you've used is the best you know.

But if the best use of time you have is to post stalk me after your last attack was locked, that says a ton more about you than me.

Have a great day!

Author Topic: Does oil cooler really help (Read 15181 times)