Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Soot]

I am pissed at the fact that I am having to make mods to the bike that kind of defeat the whole point of buying a CVO (the bike that was supposed to be the ultimate). I am a bit disillusioned right now and regretting my decision to go with a CUSE8. I have taken 3 mid length rides (200+ miles) and paid the same price - sore lower back and numbing in both feet.

I have read many posts that talk about the bars (I have WO575's on order), and some ppl have had problems with the Hammock seat. Personally, the Hammock seat is a joke! You sit high and back and the support is lacking. I am considering going with a stock Ultra seat or even an 08 CVO heated seat. Point being that I am having to shell out more $$$ to make this bike rideable for me. Maybe the answer is to sell and accept that the fact that this bike is not a good fit for me. Wah wah wah. Sorry for bitching like a little girl but if anyone wants to chime in with some suggestions.......i'm all ears!

Soot

I never encountered these type of issues with my 2010 FLHTK...

[donald p]

 I agree as for the bars they suck.

[CowboyBagger]

I'm not sure what size person MOCO engineers these bikes for, but it's definitely not my size (5'11", 34" sleeve and inseam).  Every Harley I've had, the bars are too far forward and too low.  All the stock seats suck, the best was the stock seat on my FLHTK and the worst was on my FLHX.  I guess that's why the aftermarket companies do pretty well.  I'm currently running a Corbin seat and Yaffee bars on my FLHXSE3.  My wife is getting ready to change the bars and seat on her Breakout, but the aftermarket offerings are limited with this bike.

Cowboy

[Steve_G]

I am pissed at the fact that I am having to make mods to the bike that kind of defeat the whole point of buying a CVO (the bike that was supposed to be the ultimate). I am a bit disillusioned right now and regretting my decision to go with a CUSE8. I have taken 3 mid length rides (200+ miles) and paid the same price - sore lower back and numbing in both feet.

I have read many posts that talk about the bars (I have WO575's on order), and some ppl have had problems with the Hammock seat. Personally, the Hammock seat is a joke! You sit high and back and the support is lacking. I am considering going with a stock Ultra seat or even an 08 CVO heated seat. Point being that I am having to shell out more $$$ to make this bike rideable for me. Maybe the answer is to sell and accept that the fact that this bike is not a good fit for me. Wah wah wah. Sorry for bitching like a little girl but if anyone wants to chime in with some suggestions.......i'm all ears!


Soot

I never encountered these type of issues with my 2010 FLHTK...

Do you think it is a vibration issue? If not, the lack of support may be causing the lower back pain that can cause sciatica problems such as numbing in your legs and/or feet.
Seats are a personal fitment issue, so try before you buy.
Just my 2 cents.

[dooinit2u]

I would personally look at the 578 Wild 1 bars. A diifernt hand position than the 575's. Something to look at...

[Soot]

I'm not sure what size person MOCO engineers these bikes for, but it's definitely not my size (5'11", 34" sleeve and inseam).  Every Harley I've had, the bars are too far forward and too low.  All the stock seats suck, the best was the stock seat on my FLHTK and the worst was on my FLHX.  I guess that's why the aftermarket companies do pretty well.  I'm currently running a Corbin seat and Yaffee bars on my FLHXSE3.  My wife is getting ready to change the bars and seat on her Breakout, but the aftermarket offerings are limited with this bike.

Cowboy

++1 on the seat assessment Cowboy. The FLHTK does have an excellent seat while the FLHX is like getting a spinal tap with every pothole! MOCO must have a deal with the after market suppliers.....

[Twolanerider]

Some things like engine upgrades or (more importantly) the correction of the drivetrain's sometimes significant deficiencies you can't know after just kicking tires, sitting in the saddle and taking a significant test ride (you did that before shelling out $35k+ right?).  At least you can't know those things unless homework was done above and beyond the due diligence done at the dealership itself.  Homework like reading the histories shared here or other places.

Your issues (at least for now) are different.  They're also historic.  Saddle and bar feel you could get some feel for on a good test drive before purchase.  Those ergonomics are also things that anyone should count on perhaps having to do something with if they're going to ride much.  For as long as there have been riders the first thing that was often considered was loosening the clamps and adjusting the bars to a bike's new rider.  And that was when we were young and flexible and felt admitted no pain.  The first troika of things that often should be addressed is bar or bar position, saddle and windshield.

Personally I always start with the saddle.  Without that I can't know where the rest of me is going to be or at what height.  Once the body's location is determined any final adjustment or replacement to the bars can be done and a windshield height can be established.  Just expecting some generic "fit" from the assembly line to actually fit everyone is optimistic though.  Granted, Harley builds some cheap flimsy seats.  But that there is not one universal ergonomic fit isn't one of the things I can blame them for.

[VaEagle]

Sorry to read that you are having problems.
As mentioned above most things like bikes and cars etc. are built for a certain size and build person. If you fall outside the "norm" that they decide to design for then there is problems. As we have discovered in the past, H-D with Willie G has the mentality that a bike is a blank slate that you customize to make it your own. They fail to bring up that that means more money for them and less for us as well as garage space used up to store the factory parts. How many other bike or car companies come out with a 500 page parts catalog?
If you were an optimist you could say that H-D is trying to respond to customer complaints and make the bikes ride better with improved seats etc. If a pessimist you could say we are the test dummies for products that may make it to standard production bikes in the future.
I guess part of the reason we are the test dummies is the sales system, CVOs are so expensive and rare that we don't see many on the showroom floor and we definitely don't get a chance to get an extended test ride on a CVO. That makes us vulnerable to company PR and magazine write-ups to get our first impressions of these bikes.
Just my .02 but maybe the reason some of us are happy and others not so much depends on preconceived expectations.......If you think that a CVO is the ultimate motorcycle and nothing needs to be changed or improved on it then you may be disappointed. If on the other hand you look at a CVO as a next level bike compared to stock and it still may need changes to make it right for you then you accept things and just consider it as part of ownership.
Then you have the discussion of form over function. Harley owners seem hampered a little by trying to keep the look, feel and sound of a 1930s bike versus the latest in design and technology. Things like a comfortable seat can be affected by looks such as using a road zeppelin or a Russel's day long seat may be the most comfortable but most riders won't use one because of the looks factor.
I would guess that in order to get the best fit, you could accept the ideas from similar size riders that ride in a position similar to you. It may not help if the person suggesting parts has longer legs, arms or is heaver/lighter than you. Then is the person suggesting parts a bar hopper, long distance rider, performance handling rider or a poser who is concerned with looking cool?
Good luck with your search for a good ride!

[grc]

It is rather sad that after more than a hundred years we can still get a motorcycle any way we want it, as long as it's the way the factory decided to build it.  I can get power operated eight way adjustable seats, tilt and telescope steering wheels, power adjustable pedals, etc. on a car that costs less than not only a CVO, but less than a regular Harley.  But Harley sticks with one set of bars with hardly any adjustability, one seat, one set of pegs/floorboards, etc.  This is great for their bottom line, since most customers buy their modifications from the dealers who in turn buy the parts from Harley, but it is further proof IMHO that we as consumers are being severely screwed by these clowns.

I'm pretty sure Harley could come up with either a limited number of regular production options for things like bars and seats and windshields that could be ordered prior to the bike being assembled, or at least design bars with built in adjustability for height, angle, pullback, etc.  And while the older Touring bikes at least had a small amount of adjustability for the footboards, they did away with that in 2009.  If the height or angle of the footboard doesn't suit your feet and legs, I guess that's just tough doo doo.  See a surgeon and maybe he can alter your feet and legs to fit the Harley, because Harley sure isn't going to change how they do things to suit you.

It is probably a very good idea for anyone considering a new Harley these days to automatically add about $4k to the budget before signing on the dotted line.  First you need to pay the Harley tax (that's where you change the pipes and pay for a tuning device and tune), then you need to change the bars and the windshield.  Odds are pretty good you will eventually need to replace the seat as well, either because it doesn't fit you or it's uncomfortable, or in some cases because the quality is so poor the seams keep ripping out.  And this is all before you start doing the various and sundry appearance mods Harley riders are famous for, or adding of accessories above and beyond what comes standard.  Maybe I should add another grand or two to my earlier estimate of $4k.

Don't feel like the lone stranger Soot.  I think there are a whole lot of us who felt and feel the same way you do. 

Jerry

[Soot]

Thank you guys for putting something into perspective that I suspected all along but hoped it wouldn't be the case ( naive on my part) that there would be a need to modify to the individual. Unfortunately I got caught up in the hype of owning a CVO and didn't give due diligence where I should have. So as clear as I can see it i have two options:
1. Suck it up and make the necessary adjustments (ie. new bars; new seat and extend the floor boards) or
2. Take a hoof in the pills and sell the bike before shelling out more coin.

Has anyone else had problems with the hammock seat. I find the support just isn't there and I feel like I am positioned way up on the bike as opposed to being in the seat. Too be continued.........

[GregKhougaz]

Soot,   
You can sell your CVO take off parts.  Its not as bad as you seem to think. 

GK

[Twolanerider]

Thank you guys for putting something into perspective that I suspected all along but hoped it wouldn't be the case ( naive on my part) that there would be a need to modify to the individual. Unfortunately I got caught up in the hype of owning a CVO and didn't give due diligence where I should have. So as clear as I can see it i have two options:
1. Suck it up and make the necessary adjustments (ie. new bars; new seat and extend the floor boards) or
2. Take a hoof in the pills and sell the bike before shelling out more coin.

Has anyone else had problems with the hammock seat. I find the support just isn't there and I feel like I am positioned way up on the bike as opposed to being in the seat. Too be continued.........

Harley generally offers such light and flimsy seats that I never expect them to be satisfactory.  Until 20 years or so ago there wasn't a large nationally available aftermarket that could be easily accessed for comparison so we dealt with local upholstery guys or "seat gurus."  But, if we wanted it to feel better, we did something.  Now it's easier.  Just know you're likely calling Corbin or Mustang or someone....

The adjustments you're talking about are part of the dialing in the bike to the rider.  They shouldn't be unexpected.  It's not a car with an adjustable column, tilt wheel and multi-positioned seat with lumbar and other adjustments.  It's a fixed seat and bars.  We may fit.  But most of us probably won't fit well.

Consider the basics.  Are you a distance rider or a local rider?  If not out for 500 mile days but instead bopping around town or occasionally doing a few hours on a weekend maybe you can avoid the expense and just live with it.  Though god help  you in that case if you ever do head out on a bike trip.

Do you really like the bike otherwise and is the extra cash ok to spend?  The latter really is a consideration because really good saddles can be expensive.  Bars are cheap to buy but if you're not doing the install yourself it's a multi-hour labor job for the dealership.  Hundreds of dollars for the installation.  If you really like the bike and the cost can be absorbed then dial the bike in to you and like it even more.  If, however, there's always going to be a sense of nagging frustration now (no matter how well the bike fits) then to hell with it.  No reason for something that should be a toy and a source of enjoyment to, instead, be something that will continually be under your skin.

[muddypaws]

The bike is not a one size fits all. I ride just shy of 30,000 mike a year on my 2012 and have no problem. Might be that I'm a poster biy for the size of person they design the bike for. I just so happy it's not falling apart like my 2009 that I don't notice the ride....

[dayne66]

Jus' so you know......the price of the bike is just the down payment...........

[110tHunDer]

 
I used to ride a $7,000 Kawasaki Concours.  Had to put bar risers and a different seat on it to be comfortable for me for the long haul (no floorboards! ).  Why should a $36,000 Harley be any different, other than the price of those mods increasing, accordingly?

[08SEUltra]

I have ridden 8-10 hour days on my 2012 with the hammock seat with zero discomfort. I think the seat is great. I am 5'11" and 195 lbs. pretty typical I guess.

[ultrafxr]

I too like the hammock seat and find it very comfortable. Sits differently than my 07 - definitely higher but don't find that a problem. Did change bars out for WO575s.

[CVO Brian]

Agree on 578 Bars or even 577 if your taller than 6'1. Im right at 6'0 and love the 578's. Had 12" Yaffe Bars on my last ride which I also loved but the Wild1 bars seemed to be better quality and way easier to install the wires through. Bars are a must to eliminate that lower neck/shoulder trap pain.

As far as the seat, I love the hammock that came with the bike. I was skeptical at first but talked to a couple guys who had some miles on them and once i put a couple thousand miles on that saddle it actually formed to my behind and no more dead butt after 200 miles. Give the seat one more chance after 2 to 3 K miles. The heated feature in the winter sure is nice.

Windshield? Well we can use the stock clear one or even the stock standard Ultra shield and take care of everything but this is just plain ugly. I kinda like the wind in my face in the summer so I go with the 4" stock SG shield dark smoke. I can see over it and its perfect. When it gets cold I put the Long Rider 9" recurve and I'm looking good and it blocks the wind. My wife likes the 15" clear stock shield because it blocks the wind from her as well and it doesnt mess up her pretty long black hair, but I'm good.

I agree with all the guys here, it is very disappointing to have to shell out more coin for this flagship just to be comfortable. I think they should have three comfort models based on height and length but then again re-sale would be a problem. 4k sounds about right if your not the proto typical Harley Engineer size 5'9 or 10" with 33" sleeve and 32" inseam cause thats what it seems like all touring bikes are made to.

[mannyr]

So    All I can at is I feel your pain. I traded a 2012 CVO Road Glide ( The Skunk) for my 2013 CVO FLHTCUSE8.  Boy do I regret it.  I already changed the handlebars to wild ones  WO578 and the seat to C@CSpourtour 2up seat.  I think I have the seat issue taken care of   I  just ordered a set of Buky Bars 14 inch that are being sent to me within a week. Also removed the lower fairings whiich helped.  I'm really working on making this bike work or me. After spending all that money. I  hope all my issues will be taken care of. I actually thought of trading it in and going back to a CVO  2013 Road Glide but I really would be biting the bullet financially.   Which unless I get it right will be  a possibility..  Anyone want to buy a  FLHTCUSE8  Orange bike?

[Soot]

  I'm grateful to all that took the time to offer up some suggestions and encouragement.

At 5'9"; 210lbs; with a 30" inseam and 32" reach - it definitely needs some tweeking with the fit. I am going to try a couple of different seats and see if that helps with the numbing (that's my biggest concern). I don't need a bar hopper or "ride around town" bike at that price. I have my 05 RK Custom for that.

Worse case scenario, I move it for whatever the market will bear (within reason) and see what 2014 has to offer. Thanks again guys -most appreciated. Wish I could offer you all a brewski for your time..

Soot

[05Train]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but here are the facts.....

There are literally hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of stock bikes out there with happy owners.  I personally know of well over a hundred people who happily ride stock motorcycles, many of them on Harleys.  Between the Mothership, the aftermarket suppliers, and these damned forums, we've all been conditioned to believe that there's something (or many things) very, very wrong with a stock bike.

There isn't.

You need to expect to do some comfort modifications on a bike, simply because the same bike is sold to everyone from 5'2" to 6'10' and 120 pounds to 400 pounds.  Or you can deal with what you have.

I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam, 205 pounds.  The stock seat is great; the best stock seat I've ever sat on.  It's no Corbin, but I can deal with it for the $800 savings.  I'll eventually do bars.....I budgeted that in with the cost of the bike.  Same with the windshield.  Same with the shocks and the butt-ugly TourPak hinges.

But truthfully, I could ride this bike dead-stock.  Sure, the mods make it more comfortable, but it's livable as-is.

If yours isn't, then maybe you bought the wrong bike.  I hate to sound harsh, but seriously man, the forums are a lousy sample of Harley owners.  There are plenty of people who are more than happy to hop on their stock bike and ride serious miles without griping about it.  The forums bring out the whiners.  No one comes here to post about their completely uneventful ride that was a nice way to spend 5 hours.

[Twolanerider]

  No one comes here to post about their completely uneventful ride that was a nice way to spend 5 hours.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?board=33.0

[FlaHeatWave]

My take on it;

The '05 SEEG is great out of the showroom! Plenty of power, great suspension / handling, high quality leather seat, rider backrest, chopped tourpak. My mods are minimal, radar detector, street glide mirrors, K&N. (<$500)

The '09 SERG, requires much more, exhaust system, chopped tourpak, SE Stage III, shocks, fork cartridges, areo management, are just some of the mods I feel that are necessary just to bring this bike to the level that the '05 is stock. I know, that I could have got an Ultra CVO RG that had the TP and lowers, but chose not to go that route. 'Will have spent close to $10k for mods on this bike, not including hot rodding the stereo. And the seat is still "pleather" on this one...

The MSRP on both these bikes were about the same

[110tHunDer]

My take on it;

The '05 SEEG is great out of the showroom! Plenty of power, great suspension / handling, high quality leather seat, rider backrest, chopped tourpak. My mods are minimal, radar detector, street glide mirrors, K&N. (<$500)

The '09 SERG, requires much more, exhaust system, chopped tourpak, SE Stage III, shocks, fork cartridges, areo management, are just some of the mods I feel that are necessary just to bring this bike to the level that the '05 is stock. I know, that I could have got an Ultra CVO RG that had the TP and lowers, but chose not to go that route. 'Will have spent close to $10k for mods on this bike, not including hot rodding the stereo. And the seat is still "pleather" on this one...

The MSRP on both these bikes were about the same

Too funny!  The SEEG board is FULL of people posting about their Zipper's 575 cam upgrades, their Corbin seats and their AK-20/Bitubo/Progressive suspension upgrades!

Just further proof that no one bike is perfect for everyone!

[05Train]

Too funny!  The SEEG board is FULL of people posting about their Zipper's 575 cam upgrades, their Corbin seats and their AK-20/Bitubo/Progressive suspension upgrades!

Just further proof that no one bike is perfect for everyone!

Yep, and there are 10 times as many CVO owners who aren't members of this forum who are perfectly happy with their stock bikes.

[110tHunDer]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but here are the facts.....

.... Between the Mothership, the aftermarket suppliers, and these damned forums, we've all been conditioned to believe that there's something (or many things) very, very wrong with a stock bike.

There isn't.

I had Ohlins on my Limited, decided to go with JRIs on the CVO.  The Ohlins totally transformed the ride of the bike, and I expect that the JRIs will do even better since they have an additional 22mm of stroke to them.

Except shocks? 

[Twolanerider]

My take on it;

The '05 SEEG is great out of the showroom! Plenty of power, great suspension / handling, high quality leather seat, rider backrest, chopped tourpak. My mods are minimal, radar detector, street glide mirrors, K&N. (<$500)

Can't agree at all.  I loved the 05 SEEG.  It was a great bike.  But the stock suspension sucked.  Those years old designed Showa air shocks sucked long before the SEEG and they still do.  The stock chopped pak looks great.  But you can't use it for much more than pizza.  Won't hold more than a half helmet.  And the seat... oh my god that seat was heinous.  Flimsy.  But worst was its nose.  The thing tried its best to create scrotal cleavage where it pushed up in places most guys don't want things pushing up.

The suspension was great; unless you rode something that actually didn't suck to compare it against and really no better.  The chopped tour pak looked great.  And so long as you never needed to carry much it was.  And the seat was indeed awesome; so long as your nuts were the size of peanuts.

[05Train]

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?board=33.0

The first five threads go back 3-1/2 weeks.  Compare that to how many new threads there are with people asking about pipes, seats, bars, fans, or something else they "need" to "fix" their bike.

Except shocks?  

I change stuff on my bikes.  I don't kid myself thinking that I have to.  I don't like the stock suspension.  I'm part of a tiny minority of owners who changes shocks.  

And I didn't purchase a nearly $40,000 motorcycle without knowing ahead of time what I wanted to change on it, nor do I regret the purchase one bit.  I'll ride my 30,000 miles a year with a smile on my face.

BTW, this isn't just a Harley thing.  Go on any car or motorcycle forum and you'll find the exact same thing.  J&P, Dennis Kirk, and all the other vendors just love these forums, because they get so many people whipped up to shell out money for farkles.

[Soot]

"If yours isn't, then maybe you bought the wrong bike.  I hate to sound harsh, but seriously man, the forums are a lousy sample of Harley owners.  There are plenty of people who are more than happy to hop on their stock bike and ride serious miles without griping about it.  The forums bring out the whiners."

05train,

I don't consider myself to be a whiner and if the forum is such a lousy example of HD owners; why do you participate? This is my 40th year of riding and although I don't put 30,k+ miles on every year (mostly due to weather restrictions), I do know comfort from having to walk around for days on end with numbness in your feet from a seat or ergonomics that are sorrowfully lacking. I'm happy for you that your upgrades are minimal.

The forum is an opportunity for ppl to exchange ideas and get suggestions and perhaps bitch a little to a population of ppl that would understand what they are referring to. I still have the ability to distinguish between what is essential and what is for show.

I get the point that you are trying to make but maybe you came off a little "harsh" by slamming those that do participate on this forum and have a wealth of knowledge. Just sayin.


Soot 

[timo482]

i cant stand the stock seats for very long [im large.......], i swear they are made for the models they use in there adds. its always been that way. most of the guys i know run essentially stone stock and only do mods for looks. pipes air cleaner etc - purely for looks and they never even notice if it makes more power or less.

i use a stock police seat - with the air bag replaced with a spring - perfect

and when i finally ran out of new take off stock air cleaners [i had several] i put on the se air cleaner copy with a k&n element.

in fact most of the harleys i have owned except for the 79 sportster ended up with a police seat, always the best for a long day.

to

[05Train]

"If yours isn't, then maybe you bought the wrong bike.  I hate to sound harsh, but seriously man, the forums are a lousy sample of Harley owners.  There are plenty of people who are more than happy to hop on their stock bike and ride serious miles without griping about it.  The forums bring out the whiners."

05train,

I don't consider myself to be a whiner and if the forum is such a lousy example of HD owners; why do you participate? This is my 40th year of riding and although I don't put 30,k+ miles on every year (mostly due to weather restrictions), I do know comfort from having to walk around for days on end with numbness in your feet from a seat or ergonomics that are sorrowfully lacking. I'm happy for you that your upgrades are minimal.

The forum is an opportunity for ppl to exchange ideas and get suggestions and perhaps bitch a little to a population of ppl that would understand what they are referring to. I still have the ability to distinguish between what is essential and what is for show.

I get the point that you are trying to make but maybe you came off a little "harsh" by slamming those that do participate on this forum and have a wealth of knowledge. Just sayin.

Yup, it comes off harsh.  It's not meant to be.

But sorry, it's not reasonable to expect that one motorcycle is going to fit everyone.  And it's downright silly to spend 40 grand on a bike, then complain that you can't ride it because it's too uncomfortable.  Either make the changes you need or sell the bike and get something that fits you.  The bike isn't the issue here, as the thousands of happy owners on stock bikes will attest to.  Harley's not the best selling bike in the country because they're uncomfortable torture machines.

I know when I buy a new bike, I need to budget for a new seat, new bars, and a new windshield.  I'm taller than average, so bikes aren't designed with me in mind.  Similarly, there's no such thing as a perfect seat for everyone.  The OP doesn't like his stock seat.  I have the same one, and it's fantastic for me.  Who's right? 

We both are.  And that's because everyone's built differently, and everyone likes different things.  Some people love looking through windshields, some don't.  Some people like hard seats, some like soft.  Some people like leaning forward to the bars, some like 20" apes.  Harley (and every other bike manufacturer) designs their ergos to a specific, median size.  If you're that size you're golden.  If not, you have to make the bike fit you, or you need to get a bike that fits you off the showroom floor.

But it's not Harley's fault the OP's not comfortable.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Yea, the stock bars suck, and so do most of the stock seats. I have replaced both on my bike.

But in the end, there are only two reasons we buy these ludicrously-expensive motorcycles with 100-year-old tractor technology...

1. So we don't have to ride a bike that looks and sounds like one of those giant bugs from Starship Troopers,

2. Chicks dig 'em! Except MY wife, of course... But that's another story...

Ken

[grc]

Folks can make all the excuses they want for the MoCo, but I still want to know if those same people also think it would be OK to have to buy new seats, new steering wheels, new pedals, and whatever else doesn't fit them on their new $30k automobile?  If the auto industry can adapt over the last hundred years, then I suggest Harley could do the same.  Can you make a product that will fit 100% of all possible customers?  Absolutely not.  But they should be able to do a heck of a lot better than they have.  The big difference in my opinion is the car industry has to compete for customers so they adapt to what customers want, whereas Harley expects their customers to adapt to what Harley wants to sell.

Jerry

[ultrarider123]

Soot, I've been following this a bit and thought I would input my two cents.  Never replaced the bars on any HD I've owned.  I'm 5'6" and the bars may have to be adjusted a bit but they all worked fine for me.  Seats, that's another story.  Had Corbin dual tour seats on my '94 FXSTC, my '95 and '97 FLHTCU and then got smart.  Don't get me wrong, put many a mile on the Corbin seats and really loved them but got tired of buying a new seat every time I got a new scooter.  Found and bought a good, quality sheepskin cover that's been on my stock seats from then on.  It's easy to clean, soft and let's air flow.  Have had the same cover for over 14 years now and still works great.  Won't leave home on a long trip without it.  Did a couple iron butt rides with it with no issues.  

If you are set on changing stuff, take the advice others have given and change/modify the seat/seating position first.  Then if you must, change the bars.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Folks can make all the excuses they want for the MoCo, but I still want to know if those same people also think it would be OK to have to buy new seats, new steering wheels, new pedals, and whatever else doesn't fit them on their new $30k automobile?  If the auto industry can adapt over the last hundred years, then I suggest Harley could do the same.  Can you make a product that will fit 100% of all possible customers?  Absolutely not.  But they should be able to do a heck of a lot better than they have.  The big difference in my opinion is the car industry has to compete for customers so they adapt to what customers want, whereas Harley expects their customers to adapt to what Harley wants to sell.

Jerry

Jerry - the MoCo's customers are always free to buy a bike from some other company if they so choose... but for whatever reason, many continue to buy Harleys. Therefore, by any market-driven measure, the MoCo IS meeting the demand of the market. Otherwise, they would be losing those customers to the metrics, BMW, etc... which they do not appear to be doing in any significant numbers.

Ken

[miker]

Ding, ding, ding.  

They say screw you...I say ok....I buy the bike and make how I want it....I just do it....have for decades.
If you but a bike and it fits you, great! That is awesome, you save money to ride it more.  
If you are happy with how it rides, friggin great! You save more beer money!
If you are happy with how it runs and it does not puke on you, even better! You save money, go play lotto cause you are a lucky sob...


That is all.

[miker]

Or buy a used one that some poor sob poured a chitpot of money into then got sick of riding...

[110tHunDer]

 
One of the best things about a Harley is that you CAN modify them to fit you and that there are so many vendors available for doing so.  And I disagree with the notion that there are scads of stock bikes out there.  If there are, they must all be locked in the garage.  I see very, very few stock bikes at any event I go to.  And if there were, in fact, only a small number of Internet forum membersodifying thief bikes, how could you possibly have all those options in a thriving aftermarket industry?

And I'm not sure I understand the comparisons of bikes to cages.  Apples and oranges.  Sorry, Jerry.
 

[05Train]

Folks can make all the excuses they want for the MoCo, but I still want to know if those same people also think it would be OK to have to buy new seats, new steering wheels, new pedals, and whatever else doesn't fit them on their new $30k automobile?  If the auto industry can adapt over the last hundred years, then I suggest Harley could do the same.  Can you make a product that will fit 100% of all possible customers?  Absolutely not.  But they should be able to do a heck of a lot better than they have.  The big difference in my opinion is the car industry has to compete for customers so they adapt to what customers want, whereas Harley expects their customers to adapt to what Harley wants to sell.

That's a really poor example.  Are you going to buy a motorcycle with a seat that adjusts to accommodate a rider's height and inseam across a 2 foot range?  Probably not.  Are you going to buy a motorcycle (or feel safe on one) that has handlebars that are adjustable from cafe-racer low to air-out-the-pits high?  Probably not.

Harley's customer base demands nostalgic-looking motorcycles with legacy technology.  As such, we get what we get, and truthfully it's pretty impressive that they can make it work as well as they do. 

For an example of an "adapted" V-Twin bagger, look no further than the Vic Cross Country Tour.  It's an amazing (and amazingly comfortable) motorcycle, but people aren't beating Victory's doors down to buy one.

[blacktop]

I guess I'm in the minority here as I have never felt the need to replace a seat or handle bars on any of my previous 3 HDs and I've done several long trips. I'm 5'10 and so far so good on this new bike but have not done anything over 200 miles at one sitting - so still an unknown.

[JCZ]

I guess I'm in the minority here as I have never felt the need to replace a seat or handle bars on any of my previous 3 HDs and I've done several long trips. I'm 5'10 and so far so good on this new bike but have not done anything over 200 miles at one sitting - so still an unknown.

You're the one they're built for.  The rest of us are all odd sizes.   

[Midnight Rider]

The bottom line is that if you ride your bike for hours at a time touring, you are likely going to have to change some things to make it fit you better, regardless of brand.

The "thousands and thousands" of people out there who ride their bikes stock are not putting the kind of time in the saddle that some of the folks here do.  The average motorcycle is ridden about 2,000 miles per YEAR.  Granted, that's an average, but is a good indicator of what a LOT of people do with their bike....ride it on Sunday afternoons to a location in close proximity to their home.  Those folks don't even know if the bike actually fits them, the seat is comfortable, or the suspension is good/bad.

I'm  5'8" with a 32" sleeve and a 29" inseam.  I KNOW I'm not going to fit most bikes produced and will have to make it fit me.  If I was 5'10 or 11" with a 34" sleeve and a 32" inseam, I'd probably be good to go on a lot of bikes, as that seems to be the standard they build the bike around, and that's probably an average male in the USA.

[murphy]

The moco doesn't need to improve the designs, cause idiots like me will still buy the crap they put out then pay even more to buy stuff from them or someone else to improve it.

The thing is that there already is a market strategy to replace those of us who switch brands or refuse to buy genuine parts, lots of folks who own Japanese bikes now are chomping at the bit to get their first HD!

Jerry has a great point buy using a 30k car as reference, but I'll go a step further... my two cages have a collective total of just over 400k on them, one needed a 2k tranny a few years ago and the other needed an alternator and heater fan motor... how many HD owners can say that they have had to do NO engine work on their bikes?

I've had to tear the engine down three times and the primary once on my bike... what a joke!

[CowboyBagger]

If I was 5'10 or 11" with a 34" sleeve and a 32" inseam, I'd probably be good to go on a lot of bikes, as that seems to be the standard they build the bike around, and that's probably an average male in the USA.

I'm 5'11", 34" sleeve and 34" inseam and all the bars on every Harley that I've had are too low and too far forward.  The stock seats are not positioned bad, they are just very poor quality for long haul comfort.

Cowboy

[05Train]

Jerry has a great point buy using a 30k car as reference, but I'll go a step further... my two cages have a collective total of just over 400k on them, one needed a 2k tranny a few years ago and the other needed an alternator and heater fan motor... how many HD owners can say that they have had to do NO engine work on their bikes?

Do either of those cars have air-cooled engines, or crankshafts designed to make a certain exhaust noise?

Guys on Goldwings are going 2-300,000 miles without a rebuild, but the Harley faithful would never accept a modern engine like that.

[Twolanerider]

Do either of those cars have air-cooled engines, or crankshafts designed to make a certain exhaust noise?

Guys on Goldwings are going 2-300,000 miles without a rebuild, but the Harley faithful would never accept a modern engine like that.

Then, after more bikes than I can count over more years than I care to admit, I'm not one of the faithful.  If the Buddha rode by with his chubby butt happily jiggling to a bike's vibration and asked, "hey Don (he's the Buddha, he'd know my name), would you be cool if the engine sounded a little different but for that it ran great and was greatly reliable?"

Hells bells (pardon my language Buddha), of course I would.  The newer riders don't know the particulars of a "sound."  They may know the general tones they expect.  But a nice deep rumble will get them by.  And the older riders who have had to deal with repetitive expensive failures would (mostly) trade that annoyance and expense if modernity raised its head. 

Harley sales didn't go in the (comparative) dumper during the AMF days because they lost the sound.  The company nearly went under because they were selling crap.  Popular nostalgia and mythology notwithstanding it's not all about the potato potato potato.  We could appreciate something other than a root vegetable for the cost of these machines.

[Soot]

I think the whole point to this discussion has been a wake-up call for me and certainly for others if they haven' t reached that conclusion yet. I will say one thing though; I think that it's a bit misleading that the propaganda surrounding the CVO perpetuates the myth that it is the flagship or Cadillac if you will in the Harley Fleet. Had I been afforded the opportunity to test drive one for a couple of hours (not an unreasonable request considering the amount of cash outlay) I likely would have thought twice before jumping in so quickly. I'm not pissed at MOCO so much as I am at myself for not exercising due diligence.

05 Train makes some good points but I don't buy that thousands upon thousands of happy motoring rides have left their bikes stock and like Jerry or TwoLane pointed out, those that ride serious miles; want their bike to be comfortable or at least not cause them unnecessary pain as a result of poor ergonomics. Great for after-market supplier; dealers; and the MOCO but not so good in terms of buyer satisfaction and customer relations. Would I ever buy another CVO.........probably- but not without trying it out first. That's for damn sure (which in all likelihood would probably mean a pre-owned one).

Thanks to all who chimed in and offered something. That's how we learn!

Soot

[miker]

Kinda hard to sit on it in the showroom for 4 hours! 

Just me now, but I get sore and tired if the thing is was built of of silk riding on cotton candy ...just me.

Every bike I have had, I have had to futz around with...My truck has seat that are adjustable, steering too..

Some folks are a lot tougher than me...I do like the hydralic clutch/bigger motor/cruise/abs/yadayadayada/and enough chrome for me with these SE bikes...

Hang in there and ride the snot out of it.........in good health! Slainte! 

[dlaws01]

This has been very interesting with many well taken points of view from all sides. I like these kinds of threads.  The one thing that most of us can agree on is that the MOCO has been very successful at maintaining a loyal customer base during their history.  Will they be able to maintain it as new competition steps into the picture, Polaris, Indian, etc.?  It's easy to keep the lion's share of the market when there is little or no other options to choose from.  There will always be those that will defend H-D regardless of the quality of the products they sell. Heck, I know some people that would buy a dried up dog turd if it had the bar and shield logo on it.  I do believe that as H-D targets a younger, hipper crowd as we older farts start to hang up our "leathers", they will have to address the reality that customer loyalty isn't a given anymore.  As for the sound, yes it is a factor for many but have you ever heard a Ducati Diavel with aftermarket pipes on it?  Also, I have yet to hear any new H-D 110ci have the potato, potato, potato note that some have reference like the bike's from the 70's. However, I have enjoyed this thread!  

[miker]

Think HD stuff is expensive, try offshore fishing.........whooot, that'll clean your wallet out fast, don't ask...

[Twolanerider]

Think HD stuff is expensive, try offshore fishing.........whooot, that'll clean your wallet out fast, don't ask...

If use Sportster parts as bait what should a guy catch?

[miker]

Anything from young hipster to fresh divorcee to oldster re-rider or any easy sale for the good salesman...anyone's game with all the different sporties out there now...specially the ones with the heavy metal flake...

[05Train]

Then, after more bikes than I can count over more years than I care to admit, I'm not one of the faithful.  If the Buddha rode by with his chubby butt happily jiggling to a bike's vibration and asked, "hey Don (he's the Buddha, he'd know my name), would you be cool if the engine sounded a little different but for that it ran great and was greatly reliable?"

Hells bells (pardon my language Buddha), of course I would.  The newer riders don't know the particulars of a "sound."  They may know the general tones they expect.  But a nice deep rumble will get them by.  And the older riders who have had to deal with repetitive expensive failures would (mostly) trade that annoyance and expense if modernity raised its head. 

Harley sales didn't go in the (comparative) dumper during the AMF days because they lost the sound.  The company nearly went under because they were selling crap.  Popular nostalgia and mythology notwithstanding it's not all about the potato potato potato.  We could appreciate something other than a root vegetable for the cost of these machines.

I don't disagree with this.  It's why I replaced my Limited with BMWs, and why I was a signature away from replacing the BMW with a Vic.  I look forward to the day that Harley starts offering a non-nostalgic touring bike.  I'd happily buy an American touring machine that sound and rode like a Goldwing.

I think the whole point to this discussion has been a wake-up call for me and certainly for others if they haven' t reached that conclusion yet. I will say one thing though; I think that it's a bit misleading that the propaganda surrounding the CVO perpetuates the myth that it is the flagship or Cadillac if you will in the Harley Fleet. Had I been afforded the opportunity to test drive one for a couple of hours (not an unreasonable request considering the amount of cash outlay) I likely would have thought twice before jumping in so quickly. I'm not pissed at MOCO so much as I am at myself for not exercising due diligence.

05 Train makes some good points but I don't buy that thousands upon thousands of happy motoring rides have left their bikes stock and like Jerry or TwoLane pointed out, those that ride serious miles; want their bike to be comfortable or at least not cause them unnecessary pain as a result of poor ergonomics. Great for after-market supplier; dealers; and the MOCO but not so good in terms of buyer satisfaction and customer relations. Would I ever buy another CVO.........probably- but not without trying it out first. That's for damn sure (which in all likelihood would probably mean a pre-owned one).

Thanks to all who chimed in and offered something. That's how we learn!

I'm always shocked when I hear that dealers don't offer long test rides.  When I bought the Beemer, I did a 3 hour test ride first.  I wouldn't buy a bike I couldn't take for a decent spin.

But remember, the ergonomics are poor to you, not overall.  Of the hundred or so guys in my regular riding group, the vast majority of them are riding on the stock seat with stock bars.  I think they're nuts, but these guys all log serious miles and are happy doing so.

Be happy that there are so many options out there.  With the factory and aftermarket stuff out there, you can literally make any Harley fit anyone......For a price.

[Twolanerider]

I'd happily buy an American touring machine that sound and rode like a Goldwing.

Unfortunately (not for me but the MoCo) I came to a somewhat similar conclusion (i.e., no more MoCo) quite some time ago.  Too great a lack of effort toward supporting end users, too much arrogance from the dealerships and too weak a product and I'd had enough.  The last new Harley I bought was the 05 and it will be the last unless and until the company shows not just an instance but a continued trend of overall improvement.  Not improvement on the P&L or with the stock report but with the end users and the equipment itself.  

If I had to get something new today it'd be a Wing.  More equipment and more well integrated equipment for less money.  It'd be a no brainer.  Fortunately, even though I work slow, I can work on my own so the existing bikes can continue to serve me well and do so economically.  

In fact might have stumbled on to something with the Road King project that got finished last year.  If one has the time to collect parts over an extended period to build their (probably second) bike its' a LOT cheaper to build a CVO-esque or better tricked out bike to your own specs and fit doing it once rather than starting with a generic bike off the flower and having the redundancies involved in then tearing it apart doing the common improvements.

[05Train]

True about building your own.  That said, there is a substantial difference in resale between an Ultra that's gussied up and a CVO Ultra.   If that's important to you. 

Though I'm very happy with my new bike, I can't count how many times I've said, "jeez, not again"!

Like when the stereo died this weekend.

[KenK]

I think the whole point to this discussion has been a wake-up call for me and certainly for others if they haven' t reached that conclusion yet. I will say one thing though; I think that it's a bit misleading that the propaganda surrounding the CVO perpetuates the myth that it is the flagship or Cadillac if you will in the Harley Fleet. Had I been afforded the opportunity to test drive one for a couple of hours (not an unreasonable request considering the amount of cash outlay) I likely would have thought twice before jumping in so quickly. I'm not pissed at MOCO so much as I am at myself for not exercising due diligence.

05 Train makes some good points but I don't buy that thousands upon thousands of happy motoring rides have left their bikes stock and like Jerry or TwoLane pointed out, those that ride serious miles; want their bike to be comfortable or at least not cause them unnecessary pain as a result of poor ergonomics. Great for after-market supplier; dealers; and the MOCO but not so good in terms of buyer satisfaction and customer relations. Would I ever buy another CVO.........probably- but not without trying it out first. That's for damn sure (which in all likelihood would probably mean a pre-owned one).

Thanks to all who chimed in and offered something. That's how we learn!

Soot

Well I glad I am not the only one that feels this way-I bought the same bike and your Spot on Soot! I would of never bought it if they let me take for a good test drive .....to me the 110 is not an upgrade -not for a cruiser -it runs to dang hot and is noisy. Do not get me wrong for a bar hopper its great -for a all day ride ...no thanks   

[Twolanerider]

True about building your own.  That said, there is a substantial difference in resale between an Ultra that's gussied up and a CVO Ultra.   If that's important to you. 

Though I'm very happy with my new bike, I can't count how many times I've said, "jeez, not again"!

Like when the stereo died this weekend.

Amen to that brother.  Annoyances, well, they just annoy the hell out of us.  And with resale pitted against MSRP and not against how much you've added the CVO bike is going to have a higher resale.  The question that leaves with many here is would they add enough of the difference in parts to justify the greater expenditure up front and just get the CVO bike.  Since many here are too damn dumb to leave the machines alone the answer often is that they're money ahead to start with the CVO platform; even if they then add more on top of that.  We're a sick bunch of people.

[grc]

I think I did a very poor job in an earlier post explaining exactly what I think H-D should do.  When I mentioned the things the auto industry did to improve comfort and ergonomics for their customers, I was just trying to illustrate the point that some manufacturer's actually think about and act on those things.  I didn't really expect Harley to offer eight way adjustable seats.  On the other hand, adjustable windshields are offered by more than one motorcycle company, so I can't understand why Harley can't do that.  And I had a Honda back in the 1980's that had individually adjustable handlebars, so I would think that even the engineering school dropouts in Milwaukee could have come up with something in the intervening thirty years if management actually cared about such things.

As for the seat issues, I have a very simple answer that Harley could use to let customers chose seats that fit them.  They currently offer Reach seats, Tallboy seats, and of course the standard seats.  So if we assume they could never figure out how to make an adjustable seat, perhaps they could offer a simple option to have the dealer install one of the three available seats at the time of delivery at no additional charge.  This would help eliminate the huge inventory of seats collecting dust in basements and garages and sheds all across the country, and would save the average Harley rider about $300-$400.  Once again, this is not a new concept, it's been used in my old industry for things like audio systems.  We offered what was called the radio prep package, whereby we built the car or truck with all the wiring and speakers installed but didn't install a head unit.  The dealerships had an inventory of all the optional choices on hand, and at the time of sale the customer could choose the radio he wanted and the dealership would just connect the wires and slip it in place.  There is absolutely no reason why a company like Harley couldn't do the same thing with something like a seat.

Anyhow, I haven't seen any evidence so far that management at Harley really cares about making things easier and less expensive for the customers.  But if they have a change of heart, and if they happen to read this post, they are welcome to use my idea.

I apologize if my many mentions of how we did it in the auto industry bothers anyone.  I just figure they are somewhat related industries, and Harley has already borrowed many components and production/marketing ideas from the auto industry, so why not look at a few of the other customer friendly things as well.

Jerry

[Fired00d]

Amen to that brother.  Annoyances, well, they just annoy the hell out of us.  And with resale pitted against MSRP and not against how much you've added the CVO bike is going to have a higher resale.  The question that leaves with many here is would they add enough of the difference in parts to justify the greater expenditure up front and just get the CVO bike.  Since many here are too damn dumb to leave the machines alone the answer often is that they're money ahead to start with the CVO platform; even if they then add more on top of that.  We're a sick bunch of people.

The sick (and anal) of us even have spreadsheets w/all accessories purchased, and maintenance done on bike. Oh... wait... I just thought of something .... my accessory spreadsheet doesn't include the price of installation of those parts that weren't done by me.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[05Train]

Couple of things....

- Adjustable bars and windscreens would bone up the look of the bike.  The Road Glide still isn't accepted by many as a "real" Harley.  Look at all the crap the V-Rod and Sporty guys get.  If I ran the company, I'd do what Triumph has done.....Maintain the nostalgia lines for the purists (though I'd dramatically simplify them; Ultra, Road King, Heritage, Custom Springer, Street Bob, Superglide....keep the Sporty's separate), and offer modern bikes for people like me, and the vast number of people who won't consider a Harley due to the old tech or the noise.

- Harley ought to have one of each model on the floor as a demo.  Everything else stays in the crate without bars, a seat, or a windshield (where applicable).  You ride the demo, then get fitted for the comfort stuff.  Your bike is bolted together with what you want. 

- I spent well over the $12,000 price difference between an FLHTK and a CVO Ultra. At the end of the day, it was nothing more special than a pimped-out Limited.

- With all that said, Harley's awfully successful doing things they way they do them.  In the process, they've done us a HUGE favor in protecting our resale value.  It was appalling the depreciation the Beemer took when I traded it in, compared to what I had to pay for a year old CVO (and I got a good deal on the bike).

[OlDog]

i'll apologize right off the start, I did not read all the posts.
If the CVO was a true factory custom, shouldn't we be able to order exactly the bars, seat, windshield's etc. when we purchase or at least get a stripped down bike and have the dealer attach the "custom" parts we want at the MSRP or so price?
Just sayin'

[FlaHeatWave]

I won't go into how long I've been owning/riding Harleys and other motorcycles, or how many motorcycles I have ridden. I will state that I have 5-1k mile days under my belt (and many more >700mi.) on the '05 SEEG.

'Was just posting earlier "My take on it" and got bashed for things like the seat, suspension, and Chopped Tour Pak (the bashing on the CTP really cracked me up~imagine what would have been written if I liked the Razor Tour Pak??) As we wear our helmets when we are travelling, the "Ball & Chain" & I, have not missed the other 3"-4" on our (many) month long motorcycle adventures. (even the F-250 would not hold all the shoes that she wants to take)

As far as handlebars go; I have never even thought about changing the handlebars on any of my bikes (other than adjustment).

As far as suspension;I have owned / ridden enough bikes that I know what I prefer.

As far the seat on the '05 SEEG goes; I was just remarking that it was a high quality (firm, like I prefer) leather piece and not the "pleather" (soft) as on the '09 SERG (which I will probably modify/replace someday)

'Have just been sharing my take on things, not putting anybody down, and just commiserating with the OP about buying a SE bike and then having to spend a bunch of $$$ on it for one reason or another. I do feel that comfort on a touring bike is a primary safety concern, as if you are uncomfortable, you are distracted, and one needs focus to travel safely.

Harley and the aftermarket have made personalization of these bikes a Billion $ business. I'm all for all the plug and play choices / options out there, since when I bought my first Harley, the MoCo didn't even have a P&A catalogue and the Drag book was about 4 pages.   

As far as ergonomics; I am 6'4" (maxed the Marine PT the first time I took it) Nobody that has ever met me, has ever accused me of having small nuts... (only A$$ Clowns behind a keyboard)

[FlaHeatWave]

i'll apologize right off the start, I did not read all the posts.
If the CVO was a true factory custom, shouldn't we be able to order exactly the bars, seat, windshield's etc. when we purchase or at least get a stripped down bike and have the dealer attach the "custom" parts we want at the MSRP or so price?
Just sayin'

I agree, it would be great to have an option list like the US automakers had in the '60s, but even they don't do that anymore, nobody does, all they offer are "option packages" and the CVOs are really just "option packages".
The difference between "factory custom" and "custom".

[Twolanerider]

I won't go into how long I've been owning/riding Harleys and other motorcycles, or how many motorcycles I have ridden. I will state that I have 5-1k mile days under my belt (and many more >700mi.) on the '05 SEEG.

'Was just posting earlier "My take on it" and got bashed for things like the seat, suspension, and Chopped Tour Pak (the bashing on the CTP really cracked me up~imagine what would have been written if I liked the Razor Tour Pak??) As we wear our helmets when we are travelling, the "Ball & Chain" & I, have not missed the other 3"-4" on our (many) month long motorcycle adventures. (even the F-250 would not hold all the shoes that she wants to take)

As far as handlebars go; I have never even thought about changing the handlebars on any of my bikes (other than adjustment).

As far as suspension;I have owned / ridden enough bikes that I know what I prefer.

As far the seat on the '05 SEEG goes; I was just remarking that it was a high quality (firm, like I prefer) leather piece and not the "pleather" (soft) as on the '09 SERG (which I will probably modify/replace someday)

'Have just been sharing my take on things, not putting anybody down, and just commiserating with the OP about buying a SE bike and then having to spend a bunch of $$$ on it for one reason or another. I do feel that comfort on a touring bike is a primary safety concern, as if you are uncomfortable, you are distracted, and one needs focus to travel safely.

Harley and the aftermarket have made personalization of these bikes a Billion $ business. I'm all for all the plug and play choices / options out there, since when I bought my first Harley, the MoCo didn't even have a P&A catalogue and the Drag book was about 4 pages.  

As far as ergonomics; I am 6'4" (maxed the Marine PT the first time I took it) Nobody that has ever met me, has ever accused me of having small nuts... (only A$$ Clowns behind a keyboard)

That would be me you thought was bashing was you.  Trust me, you were being quite happily talked with rather than being "bashed" or ridiculed.  Disagreement isn't ridicule (unless you take it that way, but that's not on me).  Were I really trashing you in some way I'd have been a lot more direct.  

You're right, the Razor tour pak is way more half assed than the chopped pak.  Make it 1/8th assed.  It not only isn't functional it looks bad too.  The rest may or may not be distinctions without a difference since the difference is in the ass of the rider (not dependent on nut size).  Personally my take is that the stock suspension sucked; especially compared to really good suspension once it's installed.  Night and day difference.  You've got no idea how much time the front wheel is off the ground until suddenly it's not anymore.  

That 05's saddle was a nice looking piece.  But, for me, a saddle has to work well before it has to look good.  It's not a great saddle unless it does both. It can't be good if it's only cosmetically good with decent materials.  And that thing just didn't.  When they were new what the saddle's nose tried to do for the boys being what a push up bra does for the women wasn't a notion particular to me.  Having discussed this with my nuts many times they agreed completely.

Sorry you were offended by the curb racing and the chat.  Nuance can easily be lost in non-verbal communication.  Take it for truth though my friend, if I think you're a stupid jarhead sumbeach with pretensions toward being a Neanderthal's father and its mother rather than just disagreeing in a friendly bike chat you'll know it.

Otherwise, it's all good .

[Soot]

I'm pleased to see that my orig post has prompted some good dialogue on this matter. More importantly, I hope that someone from the MOCO has someone that actually takes the time to read these offerings (assuming that they give a rat's ass about what the buying public thinks). 5Train raised a good point that there should be a demo of the major models in the showroom and not perpetuate the myth. But it All boils down to $$$$.

I also agree that the they should do the initial installs of seat, bars and windshield at the dealer level after you have been properly fit for your size. I know I'm being optimistic but maybe some good will come out of a bad experience.


Soot

[Jerry/MD]

I must be an odd-ball. The seat on my 2011 FLTRUSE is the most comfortable stock seat I've experienced...and my handlebars fit me perfectly.

Sorry to hear about your issues Soot. Hopefully you will find the magic combination sooner rather than later...which would translate into less $$$ out of your pocket. As others have stated (especially grc), Harley makes a ton of money off those accessories. I guess they are banking on more uncomfortable customers like you, and less immediately satisfied ones like me. Good Luck.

Jerry

[Cosmic Charlie]

I like all these GOOD suggestions that Moco Could / Should do !!!

And they could become reality if MoCO Could Charge MORE  $$$  for them -  otherwise fugetaboutit

That is what MoCo is in business for - BOTTOM LINE (but heck - who ain't)

and the Dealers are totally in bed with MoCo  (MoCo = Mother Cash Cow)

jus reminding ya'all    "MoCo don't want your opinions or tears - just your Green Backs"

In America the Dollar is King (and sadly nice guys (and nice Dealers) often finish last in the $ department)

Like most everything else in life - ya make the best with the hand your dealt (the bike you bought)

No One Twisted Your Arm To Buy It

btw - I have no complaints on my bike (& nobody cares to hear them if I did)

It is what it is - and that's pretty dam decent - Thank You Willy

[JoeSDE]

WOW! So much to say about this after 35 plus years on a Harley. My impression of most of the Harley riders I've been involved with bought bikes with the intention of modifying them. The CVO guys are some the biggest modifiers of them all. Enough said on why new bikes fit or don't fit, but if the OP's feet tingle after riding for moderate periods, I would be looking at medical issues in addition to the seat. I also have found that distance riding is no different than sustained physical activity, you need to work up gradually and build up endurance. The price of the bike has no bearing on modifications IMHO. Joined an Audi forum recently after buying an S4, and was stunned at the level of mods going on with these 50-60 thousand dollars. They are all the same type of things the bike guys are doing; suspension, ECM performance chips, exhaust systems, and tires. The perception is totally different, however. They want to mod. I made the decision to go with an FLHTK instead of a CVO because I knew I was going to make so many changes. I may not get the resale value of a CVO, but the fun of building it was what I enjoyed. The bike would be just as good stock, but it's the added pleasure of the enhancements the make it better. OK, so I drink the kool-aid, but if I wanted something else I'd buy it. OP, break it in some, demo some seats and don't feel so guilty because you spent the money. Believe me, life is way too short. Thanks for listening.         JoeS

[Soot]

Thanks for writing in Joe. I too had an FLHTK and did a chitload of mods...really had no intention of selling it but a neighbour made an offer I couldn't turn down (guess he's got the last laugh now..lol). I strongly suspect that my issue is with the seating and as many others (smarter than me) have previously eluded to in this post- positioning is key. I don't fit the Hammock seat and I also suspect that the widened positioning of the thighs is pressing on some nerve group that is causing the numb feet. I plan to demo a couple of different seats and go from there. Love the bike otherwise!

Soot

[110tHunDer]

 
Maybe it is as simple as putting a Limited seat on your SEUC?

[charles05663]

On the 2009 SERG the seat was defective from the factory and was a safety issue.  Due to the poor construction and design (or lack there of) the front of the seat would detach from the tank due to the flex in the seat.  This happened numerous times to me while driving.  MoCo replace the original seat with the same defective model and it continued to happen.  MoCo's "fix" was to create two little bumpers to keep the seat from flexing so much; half assed at best.

I suspect that MoCo's counts on the buyers replacing a vast majority of the seats, windshields, etc. and does so to boost their bottom-line.  I frankly can careless about the shareholders; I think too many companies care more about what Wall Street thinks then their customers.  I care more about the quality of the product and lack of US production of their parts.  If there is an American aftermarket item, even if costs me twice as much, I will buy it instead of the crap MoCo sells.

 

[Bigfoot16]

I had a few issues when I bought mine, this is my first bagger after a few Heritage Softails.  I'm 6'4" with 36" inseam, 37" sleeves, and a size 16 boot, so I expect to make adjustments to any bike I purchase.  I was not happy with the feel of the stock bars so I changed them.  True, these bikes are a lot of money, but I always add a ton of chrome other things, which to me is half the fun of owning a Harley.  Since there is not much more chrome needed on the stock bike, I didn't think buying bars to make it more comfortable was that bad..  After the bars were put on, the bike felt much better and I could not be happier with my first bagger. Make it fit and enjoy it

[Montanakid]

For me/us the stock seats on both the 03 Fatboy and now the 2010 SESG, were only good for an hour or 1.5 at best before things that don't need to be numb were going numb, hence the changing to Corbin.I actually did the Yaffee bars due to looks but enjoy the ride also, I upgraded suspension for comfort as like with any other company now a days they install the cheapest products in order to meet their profit margins.
What bothers me the most is, the windshields should be one item that could be adjusted per customer, I'm running a 6" now instead of the stock 4" and IMHO that should be an item that the dealers could swap out at no charge as of course we are mostly all different sizes.And then to add so many chrome goodies as stock on the CVO, I think they should have done the front motor mounts in chrome instead of the lousy pot metal ones they throw in as an after thought.

[Jswerve]

I am pissed at the fact that I am having to make mods to the bike that kind of defeat the whole point of buying a CVO (the bike that was supposed to be the ultimate). I am a bit disillusioned right now and regretting my decision to go with a CUSE8. I have taken 3 mid length rides (200+ miles) and paid the same price - sore lower back and numbing in both feet.

I have read many posts that talk about the bars (I have WO575's on order), and some ppl have had problems with the Hammock seat. Personally, the Hammock seat is a joke! You sit high and back and the support is lacking. I am considering going with a stock Ultra seat or even an 08 CVO heated seat. Point being that I am having to shell out more $$$ to make this bike rideable for me. Maybe the answer is to sell and accept that the fact that this bike is not a good fit for me. Wah wah wah. Sorry for bitching like a little girl but if anyone wants to chime in with some suggestions.......i'm all ears!

Soot

I never encountered these type of issues with my 2010 FLHTK...

Who said you wouldn't have to do any mods after the purchase that's just plain silly lol. We are all kinds of different shapes and sizes. It is VERY rare you hop on ANY bike and the bars, seat, etc fit you to a T. I suggest buying a base model if that bothers you. I have had to buy a seat and installed different handlebars, exhaust, tuner, etc.

[2k]

After a very hard, up a mountain 10 mi pull, the guys I ride with, who are WFO when safety allows, my right hand was completely asleep. As we neared the top I was a little scared I would have to let off and get left. Sure, they would wait on me at the top but with snickers & catcalls (why do I ride with a bunch of A'holes.....oh, that's right they're my friends). Now back to the topic.........one thing I'm not going to do is look for a problem with the scooter.

[dlaws01]

. Now back to the topic.........one thing I'm not going to do is look for a problem with the scooter.



Why?  What wrong with you? 

[Soot]

   Funny how things just have a way of sorting themselves out sometimes...

1 week ago today on Father's Day, I had my first motorcycle accident in 40 years of riding. The bike sustained superficial, cosmetic damage and I ended up with a fractured ankle. I would have to say that I was damned lucky - it could have been so much worse. I had sent my seat to Alligator Bob to have the hammock seat slimmed down and was using a reach demo seat from the dealer. The seating position felt great and then this.

I was travelling westbound on a rural highway and met up with a vehicle that was eastbound on a very tight  90 degree corner. I ended up smacking into the car's rear door and kept it upright for another 50-60' until I was able to come to a complete stop and then gently laid her over on the right side engine guard. (See attached pic).

In any event, you know when you reach that point that you and the bike just aren't a good fit....well I am at the point with this bike. I'm sure that it will be great for someone and give them many years of excellent riding....just not me. I am going to get it repaired back to showroom standard and offer it up for sale. PM me if you or someone you know is interested. I am likely going to go back to riding an FLHTK.

it's been an interesting forum - you guys have offered up some good information and I appreciate it.

Take care
Soot

[JoeSDE]

Karma

[Soot]

Karma

Explain yourself! Are you saying that I caused someone else to have an accident in the past ? That's ludicrous....

[JoeSDE]

Of course not. How would you even think that. Just meant maybe you and this bike just weren't meant to be together. FLHTK is a fine ride. Be safe and best wishes on a speedy recovery.    JoeS

[dlaws01]

Explain yourself! Are you saying that I caused someone else to have an accident in the past ? That's ludicrous....

Maybe in a past life, early 1900's when you got your first H-D.  Remember?

[Soot]

Of course not. How would you even think that. Just meant maybe you and this bike just weren't meant to be together. FLHTK is a fine ride. Be safe and best wishes on a speedy recovery.    JoeS

At first i kinda thought that's what you meant but wasn't sure. I think you might be right....sometimes there's just a poor fit and you know it's time to pass it on to someone else. Thanks for the recovery wishes. Ride Safe!

Mike (soot)

[Soot]

Maybe in a past life, early 1900's when you got your first H-D.  Remember?

Early 1900's I would have likely been riding a Thor or an Indian..... maybe that's the problem - I was meant to buy an Indian Chief lol! just kidding

Soot

[mightywarlock]

Just wondering,

How tall are you?

I am 5'6", and had an '07 Ultra that I was completely comfortable on for the last 7 years, and traded it in for the new '13 CVO Ultra, and I have been having all sorts of comfort issues regarding fit so far, from the bars to the seat height to foot position, etc...
I put my Progressive 940 shocks on which were supposed to lower the bike an inch or so, but don't really feel like it has, and the bars/seat position has made my right hand/fingers go numb.  Noticed it riding home from the dealer the very first ride.
Issues with trying to find a comfortable backrest position and just general fit...
I was planning on trying the Reach seat this weekend actually, and the dealer lowered my bars just a little bit which helped slightly, but I feel your pain, and know, it is typically just a matter of time and money before getting the right parts together to make the bike fit ME.

my old bike was a monster and rode really rough, and this new CVO is smooth as anything, but I do miss the old bike very much, and am having a hard time adjusting to the new one...
 

[Soot]

Reply to Warlock: 5'9"

Fit is paramount and such a critical component to a happy ownership!

[mrmagloo]

Regarding ergo's, as others have mentioned, everyone is different and the MOCO probably has the mathematical overall average pretty well covered. While someone could certainly look at developing some degree of adjustability, the reality is, that's pretty tough when thinking about the bar heights, for example.

The point is, once you get a feel for where YOU personally differ from this 'norm', whatever that might be, then you pretty well know upfront what you will probably need to adjust on a new bike - same or similar model.  For instance, I'm 5'10" with ~33" reach, ~31" inseam, so while the seat and seatback are usually fine, I have switched to the reach bars, which are a little bit taller and pull back a bit too.  That and adjusting the highway pegs a bit makes it perfect.

That known, when I get ready to buy a new one, at the last round of negotiations, I stick in the requirement that they swap the bars or anything else I know I'll need to fit me.  Typically, they will handle those demands pretty readily to clinch a deal, at a much lower cost than you will face after delivery.

Obviously, if you are moving to a totally different model, you owe it to yourself to rent perhaps the Non-CVO version for a day or two to get a feel for where the fit isn't quite optimal.

My .02 fwiw.

[Soot]

Your 2cts are valid Mr. Magloo. Thanks for yor input!

[hep0950]

It would be nice if you could order the bike with what you wanted, but how would you know? It would be nice if they would give you a choice on bars, seats and windshields when you buy one, but not very cost effective, I guess. Myself, I have a 2012 Ultra CVO and don't have a real problem with the bars or seat. First time I didn't have to change out the seat. Like someone said, you can not make a bike to satisfy everyone. You change it to make it your own. Things like seats, bars, and windshields are personal preferences and will not fit everyone. It would be nice to see what size rider they set their bikes up for.

[Soot]

It would be nice if you could order the bike with what you wanted, but how would you know? It would be nice if they would give you a choice on bars, seats and windshields when you buy one, but not very cost effective, I guess. Myself, I have a 2012 Ultra CVO and don't have a real problem with the bars or seat. First time I didn't have to change out the seat. Like someone said, you can not make a bike to satisfy everyone. You change it to make it your own. Things like seats, bars, and windshields are personal preferences and will not fit everyone. It would be nice to see what size rider they set their bikes up for.

For sure! I'll ask them when I tour the plant in August!

[mightywarlock]

I got news for you...

I took out the Demo Reach seat yesterday, and am not surprised you crashed your bike with it on!!

It sucks big time!
It pushed me forward way too far, and while allowing me to get more flat footed, also made me very uncomfortable with the foot controls to the point of not feeling safe with this seat on the bike...so I rode few a short while, and then went right back to the dealer to give it back to them.

Today, a friend of mine gave me his Stock seat off of his '11 Road Glide (He upgraded to the Hammock seat) and I just put it on my bike, and I have to say, I think I like the regular Ultra Classic style stock seat!  It pushes me forward and down to where I am now Flat footed, and not nearly as forward as the reach seat.  This is just from sitting on it in the garage, but I think I will like it better than the Hammock seat, which made me feel way too high up on the bike.

Just food for thought.  maybe you should ask your dealer to try a regular stock seat on the bike before selling it.

[North Georgia Hawg]

 Funny how things just have a way of sorting themselves out sometimes...

1 week ago today on Father's Day, I had my first motorcycle accident in 40 years of riding. The bike sustained superficial, cosmetic damage and I ended up with a fractured ankle. I would have to say that I was damned lucky - it could have been so much worse. I had sent my seat to Alligator Bob to have the hammock seat slimmed down and was using a reach demo seat from the dealer. The seating position felt great and then this.

I was travelling westbound on a rural highway and met up with a vehicle that was eastbound on a very tight  90 degree corner. I ended up smacking into the car's rear door and kept it upright for another 50-60' until I was able to come to a complete stop and then gently laid her over on the right side engine guard. (See attached pic).

In any event, you know when you reach that point that you and the bike just aren't a good fit....well I am at the point with this bike. I'm sure that it will be great for someone and give them many years of excellent riding....just not me. I am going to get it repaired back to showroom standard and offer it up for sale. PM me if you or someone you know is interested. I am likely going to go back to riding an FLHTK.

it's been an interesting forum - you guys have offered up some good information and I appreciate it.

Take care
Soot

Soot - first, I want to say that I was really sad to read about your accident, and I wish you a speedy recovery. Looks like you were able to minimize the damage to YOU first, and the bike second. Bikes are a lot easier to fix than are people! Glad you weren't any more seriously injured - but any injury is bad.

Reading this thread got me to thinking about why one bike, such a Limited, would "fit" you, whereas another bike, like your CUSE8, would not. They are exactly the same bike - except for the seat, the 110" engine vs the 103" engine, the wheels, and all of the CVO chrome doodads.

I am 5'9" with a 30" inseam and a 33" reach. Simply finding the right seat for you would help immensely, I think. No need to sell the CVO and take the financial hit.

When I bought the Honey Badger, I made LOTS of mods - starting with the seat. You think the Hammock is bad - try riding on the thin, useless little stock pan on the FLHXSE3! I tried a Reach - no good - put me WAY too far forward and super-cramped. Luckily I didn't have an accident as you did. I returned the Reach.

Then I tried a Hammock that I bought on here - no good at ALL for me - I sat way too high, and the BSR position was way too low in relation to the rider. The neck was too wide for me too, and my boys didn't like it. I hated the Hammock. Luckily, I was able to sell it someone on here for what I paid for it.

Then I found a beautiful Corbin DualTour on here with orange and silver flame stitching. The seller couldn't sell it, I guess because of the orange flames. The look was perfect for the Honey Badger tho... so I bought it, along with rider and passenger backrests and the matching TP backrest, for $400. I got lucky... It would have cost 3 times that if I had bought it new from Corbin. I was also able to sell the stock seat and sissy bar for the same $400 to someone ELSE on here. So in effect,  I was able to upgrade from suck-ass thin stock seat to a Corbin custom leather DualTour for $0.

The only problem with the DualTour is that it sucks for a BSR. The rear seat is narrow, and slopes forward - making the passenger slide forward into the rider backrest. Not good. SO, I bought a nice Mustang Super Touring Wide Vintage seat with the integrated rider back rest, along with a matching Mustang TP backrest. Good for me and perfect for a BSR... Nice and wide and comfy for both of us! Those two items new set me back about $850 tho... Yikes! Gotta keep Momma happy tho... even tho she rarely rides BSR with me... preferring to ride her nimble little Ninja 650 scooter herself.

I use the Corbin when riding solo without the TP on, and the Mustang when riding two-up with the TP. I prefer the Corbin for me on long rides because it is so firm - but the Mustang is fine for me, too.

As far as bars, that's an endless discussion. I hated the stock bars, so I went with the Wild One Chubbys 575 bars. They are MUCH better than the stock bars. That was before the WO 578 bars came out, tho. If I were replacing bars today, I might go with the 578 bars - even tho I would probably need to get longer clutch and brake lines. The 578s look and feel awesome, but I am OK with the 575s I have.

Anyway, think on it before you sell your CUSE8... It all starts with the right seat, as has been said in this thread... then, the bars. That may be all you need...

Sorry for the dissertation here. Good luck in whatever you choose to do, and always Ride Safe!

Ken

[ridefar]

Hey brother, I feel your pain! I have been convinced for years that Harley could give you the bike for free and still make money off you by selling you all the stuff required to fix all the deficiencies.

[Soot]

Warlock - good point. I did feel rather close up.......especially whe I saw that car door swinging out in front of me!!

Ken: I was reading the stats you listed and I thought holy chit that's me to a tee- 5'9"; 30" inseam and a 33/34 reach. I may follow your suggestions once the bike has been fixed and I heal up. Thanks for the wishes.

Ridefar: what an interesting concept - get the bike free then pay for everything else. 

[2k]

 Funny how things just have a way of sorting themselves out sometimes...

1 week ago today on Father's Day, I had my first motorcycle accident in 40 years of riding. The bike sustained superficial, cosmetic damage and I ended up with a fractured ankle. I would have to say that I was damned lucky - it could have been so much worse. I had sent my seat to Alligator Bob to have the hammock seat slimmed down and was using a reach demo seat from the dealer. The seating position felt great and then this.

I was travelling westbound on a rural highway and met up with a vehicle that was eastbound on a very tight  90 degree corner. I ended up smacking into the car's rear door and kept it upright for another 50-60' until I was able to come to a complete stop and then gently laid her over on the right side engine guard. (See attached pic).

In any event, you know when you reach that point that you and the bike just aren't a good fit....well I am at the point with this bike. I'm sure that it will be great for someone and give them many years of excellent riding....just not me. I am going to get it repaired back to showroom standard and offer it up for sale. PM me if you or someone you know is interested. I am likely going to go back to riding an FLHTK.

it's been an interesting forum - you guys have offered up some good information and I appreciate it.

Take care
Soot

Giving up your cuse8 is one thing, leaving the forum is another. I, for one, have enjoyed your presence & post. Don't leave!!

[Soot]

Thanks 2KSoftail...your comments are most appreciated. I just naturally assumed that if you no longer owned a CVO that taking yourself off the Forum would be the polite thing to do. However, I am not done with this CVO saga as yet.......stay tuned - to be continued....lol.

Soot

p.s. to those of you that have commented in one way or another, I want you to know that it has been very much appreciated. I am always learning on this site. Amazing!! 

[TinSpinner]

Giving up your cuse8 is one thing, leaving the forum is another. I, for one, have enjoyed your presence & post. Don't leave!!

Ditto that! I've been following this thread since the beginning and can relate to some of the issues Soot has had with his new ride. It is frustrating to spend what we spend on a CVO and then budget another $4K or so to make it "right". I have some of the same complaints about my 2013 SEUC, the seat primarily, then the bars, but I am addressing each of those to find the perfect combination for me. I'm into it too far to let those relatively minor details spoil my enjoyment of this bike. That is part of the heritage with these bikes, and a lot of autos/trucks/houses/apartments, is that we can and do personalize each and every one of them to fit our riding style, our personality, our taste, and our stature. In a perfect world we would all be the same size and a manufacturer could make one product that would actually fit all of us. I think that would be a boring world personally, I like diversity and appreciate the tweaks that each individual makes to his rides, his habitat, his choice of attire, everything that makes us unique.

Don't give up on a great bike, Soot, just because it doesn't fit you out of the box. There are plenty of options that will add to your enjoyment; yes, you will have to spend a few bucks to get there but far less than you will lose if you try to unload it at this point. We would all enjoy hearing about what you've done to make this machine work for you.  Maybe you will find something and share with us so that we all can benefit. That is what I enjoy the most about this forum and I am sure a lot of the members will concur. Your choice though...

[SHRK2TH]

Maybe MOCO needs to come up with a custom build to order for CVO's.  I too with a 2012 CVO "SkunK", change the seat and bars.
Disappointed, not really but I see where you guys are coming from.  The above is just a thought to offer that the other competitive manufactures may not.

[Bigfoot16]

Don't give up Soot... I'm still getting use to mine, I almost took it back the first week to get another Heritage, but I know when I finally get comfortable I will be happy I did....  They are truly awesome bikes, hang in there. 

[mrmagloo]

It would be nice if you could order the bike with what you wanted, but how would you know? It would be nice if they would give you a choice on bars, seats and windshields when you buy one, but not very cost effective, I guess. Myself, I have a 2012 Ultra CVO and don't have a real problem with the bars or seat. First time I didn't have to change out the seat. Like someone said, you can not make a bike to satisfy everyone. You change it to make it your own. Things like seats, bars, and windshields are personal preferences and will not fit everyone. It would be nice to see what size rider they set their bikes up for.

Alot of dealers, at least in the Chicago area have a Harley fitment display thingie.  Where you can try different seat and handlebar combo's, and check leg reach.  This includes a floor with three height levels with 1" increments.  I've never messed with it, but I have seen them at a few places.

[Soot]

I'm back!!!  Not quite riding yet but soon ( another couple of weeks).

Traded the Ultra in for a SeRK!


Soot

[Soot]

Can hardly wait to be able to ride !!

[phato1]

Good for you! That king sure looks sweet 

Heal up some more so you can ride.

[BUCKNUT GREG]

Can hardly wait to be able to ride !!

Soot, I made the same move in May.  Don't regret it one bit.  The King is so nimble and light it is just so fun to ride.
Didn't even change the exhaust system as for my many other bikes I've had.  Good luck on the new ride and hope you
enjoy it as much as I have.

[HogDude]

Can hardly wait to be able to ride !!

Enjoy ! !

[brwk]

Congrats!!!!!  Beautiful bike.