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[05Train]

"If yours isn't, then maybe you bought the wrong bike.  I hate to sound harsh, but seriously man, the forums are a lousy sample of Harley owners.  There are plenty of people who are more than happy to hop on their stock bike and ride serious miles without griping about it.  The forums bring out the whiners."

05train,

I don't consider myself to be a whiner and if the forum is such a lousy example of HD owners; why do you participate? This is my 40th year of riding and although I don't put 30,k+ miles on every year (mostly due to weather restrictions), I do know comfort from having to walk around for days on end with numbness in your feet from a seat or ergonomics that are sorrowfully lacking. I'm happy for you that your upgrades are minimal.

The forum is an opportunity for ppl to exchange ideas and get suggestions and perhaps bitch a little to a population of ppl that would understand what they are referring to. I still have the ability to distinguish between what is essential and what is for show.

I get the point that you are trying to make but maybe you came off a little "harsh" by slamming those that do participate on this forum and have a wealth of knowledge. Just sayin.

Yup, it comes off harsh.  It's not meant to be.

But sorry, it's not reasonable to expect that one motorcycle is going to fit everyone.  And it's downright silly to spend 40 grand on a bike, then complain that you can't ride it because it's too uncomfortable.  Either make the changes you need or sell the bike and get something that fits you.  The bike isn't the issue here, as the thousands of happy owners on stock bikes will attest to.  Harley's not the best selling bike in the country because they're uncomfortable torture machines.

I know when I buy a new bike, I need to budget for a new seat, new bars, and a new windshield.  I'm taller than average, so bikes aren't designed with me in mind.  Similarly, there's no such thing as a perfect seat for everyone.  The OP doesn't like his stock seat.  I have the same one, and it's fantastic for me.  Who's right? 

We both are.  And that's because everyone's built differently, and everyone likes different things.  Some people love looking through windshields, some don't.  Some people like hard seats, some like soft.  Some people like leaning forward to the bars, some like 20" apes.  Harley (and every other bike manufacturer) designs their ergos to a specific, median size.  If you're that size you're golden.  If not, you have to make the bike fit you, or you need to get a bike that fits you off the showroom floor.

But it's not Harley's fault the OP's not comfortable.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Yea, the stock bars suck, and so do most of the stock seats. I have replaced both on my bike.

But in the end, there are only two reasons we buy these ludicrously-expensive motorcycles with 100-year-old tractor technology...

1. So we don't have to ride a bike that looks and sounds like one of those giant bugs from Starship Troopers,

2. Chicks dig 'em! Except MY wife, of course... But that's another story...

Ken

[grc]

Folks can make all the excuses they want for the MoCo, but I still want to know if those same people also think it would be OK to have to buy new seats, new steering wheels, new pedals, and whatever else doesn't fit them on their new $30k automobile?  If the auto industry can adapt over the last hundred years, then I suggest Harley could do the same.  Can you make a product that will fit 100% of all possible customers?  Absolutely not.  But they should be able to do a heck of a lot better than they have.  The big difference in my opinion is the car industry has to compete for customers so they adapt to what customers want, whereas Harley expects their customers to adapt to what Harley wants to sell.

Jerry

[ultrarider123]

Soot, I've been following this a bit and thought I would input my two cents.  Never replaced the bars on any HD I've owned.  I'm 5'6" and the bars may have to be adjusted a bit but they all worked fine for me.  Seats, that's another story.  Had Corbin dual tour seats on my '94 FXSTC, my '95 and '97 FLHTCU and then got smart.  Don't get me wrong, put many a mile on the Corbin seats and really loved them but got tired of buying a new seat every time I got a new scooter.  Found and bought a good, quality sheepskin cover that's been on my stock seats from then on.  It's easy to clean, soft and let's air flow.  Have had the same cover for over 14 years now and still works great.  Won't leave home on a long trip without it.  Did a couple iron butt rides with it with no issues.  

If you are set on changing stuff, take the advice others have given and change/modify the seat/seating position first.  Then if you must, change the bars.

[North Georgia Hawg]

Folks can make all the excuses they want for the MoCo, but I still want to know if those same people also think it would be OK to have to buy new seats, new steering wheels, new pedals, and whatever else doesn't fit them on their new $30k automobile?  If the auto industry can adapt over the last hundred years, then I suggest Harley could do the same.  Can you make a product that will fit 100% of all possible customers?  Absolutely not.  But they should be able to do a heck of a lot better than they have.  The big difference in my opinion is the car industry has to compete for customers so they adapt to what customers want, whereas Harley expects their customers to adapt to what Harley wants to sell.

Jerry

Jerry - the MoCo's customers are always free to buy a bike from some other company if they so choose... but for whatever reason, many continue to buy Harleys. Therefore, by any market-driven measure, the MoCo IS meeting the demand of the market. Otherwise, they would be losing those customers to the metrics, BMW, etc... which they do not appear to be doing in any significant numbers.

Ken

[miker]

Ding, ding, ding.  

They say screw you...I say ok....I buy the bike and make how I want it....I just do it....have for decades.
If you but a bike and it fits you, great! That is awesome, you save money to ride it more.  
If you are happy with how it rides, friggin great! You save more beer money!
If you are happy with how it runs and it does not puke on you, even better! You save money, go play lotto cause you are a lucky sob...


That is all.

[miker]

Or buy a used one that some poor sob poured a chitpot of money into then got sick of riding...

[110tHunDer]

 
One of the best things about a Harley is that you CAN modify them to fit you and that there are so many vendors available for doing so.  And I disagree with the notion that there are scads of stock bikes out there.  If there are, they must all be locked in the garage.  I see very, very few stock bikes at any event I go to.  And if there were, in fact, only a small number of Internet forum membersodifying thief bikes, how could you possibly have all those options in a thriving aftermarket industry?

And I'm not sure I understand the comparisons of bikes to cages.  Apples and oranges.  Sorry, Jerry.
 

[05Train]

Folks can make all the excuses they want for the MoCo, but I still want to know if those same people also think it would be OK to have to buy new seats, new steering wheels, new pedals, and whatever else doesn't fit them on their new $30k automobile?  If the auto industry can adapt over the last hundred years, then I suggest Harley could do the same.  Can you make a product that will fit 100% of all possible customers?  Absolutely not.  But they should be able to do a heck of a lot better than they have.  The big difference in my opinion is the car industry has to compete for customers so they adapt to what customers want, whereas Harley expects their customers to adapt to what Harley wants to sell.

That's a really poor example.  Are you going to buy a motorcycle with a seat that adjusts to accommodate a rider's height and inseam across a 2 foot range?  Probably not.  Are you going to buy a motorcycle (or feel safe on one) that has handlebars that are adjustable from cafe-racer low to air-out-the-pits high?  Probably not.

Harley's customer base demands nostalgic-looking motorcycles with legacy technology.  As such, we get what we get, and truthfully it's pretty impressive that they can make it work as well as they do. 

For an example of an "adapted" V-Twin bagger, look no further than the Vic Cross Country Tour.  It's an amazing (and amazingly comfortable) motorcycle, but people aren't beating Victory's doors down to buy one.

[blacktop]

I guess I'm in the minority here as I have never felt the need to replace a seat or handle bars on any of my previous 3 HDs and I've done several long trips. I'm 5'10 and so far so good on this new bike but have not done anything over 200 miles at one sitting - so still an unknown.

[JCZ]

I guess I'm in the minority here as I have never felt the need to replace a seat or handle bars on any of my previous 3 HDs and I've done several long trips. I'm 5'10 and so far so good on this new bike but have not done anything over 200 miles at one sitting - so still an unknown.

You're the one they're built for.  The rest of us are all odd sizes.   

[Midnight Rider]

The bottom line is that if you ride your bike for hours at a time touring, you are likely going to have to change some things to make it fit you better, regardless of brand.

The "thousands and thousands" of people out there who ride their bikes stock are not putting the kind of time in the saddle that some of the folks here do.  The average motorcycle is ridden about 2,000 miles per YEAR.  Granted, that's an average, but is a good indicator of what a LOT of people do with their bike....ride it on Sunday afternoons to a location in close proximity to their home.  Those folks don't even know if the bike actually fits them, the seat is comfortable, or the suspension is good/bad.

I'm  5'8" with a 32" sleeve and a 29" inseam.  I KNOW I'm not going to fit most bikes produced and will have to make it fit me.  If I was 5'10 or 11" with a 34" sleeve and a 32" inseam, I'd probably be good to go on a lot of bikes, as that seems to be the standard they build the bike around, and that's probably an average male in the USA.

[murphy]

The moco doesn't need to improve the designs, cause idiots like me will still buy the crap they put out then pay even more to buy stuff from them or someone else to improve it.

The thing is that there already is a market strategy to replace those of us who switch brands or refuse to buy genuine parts, lots of folks who own Japanese bikes now are chomping at the bit to get their first HD!

Jerry has a great point buy using a 30k car as reference, but I'll go a step further... my two cages have a collective total of just over 400k on them, one needed a 2k tranny a few years ago and the other needed an alternator and heater fan motor... how many HD owners can say that they have had to do NO engine work on their bikes?

I've had to tear the engine down three times and the primary once on my bike... what a joke!

[CowboyBagger]

If I was 5'10 or 11" with a 34" sleeve and a 32" inseam, I'd probably be good to go on a lot of bikes, as that seems to be the standard they build the bike around, and that's probably an average male in the USA.

I'm 5'11", 34" sleeve and 34" inseam and all the bars on every Harley that I've had are too low and too far forward.  The stock seats are not positioned bad, they are just very poor quality for long haul comfort.

Cowboy

[05Train]

Jerry has a great point buy using a 30k car as reference, but I'll go a step further... my two cages have a collective total of just over 400k on them, one needed a 2k tranny a few years ago and the other needed an alternator and heater fan motor... how many HD owners can say that they have had to do NO engine work on their bikes?

Do either of those cars have air-cooled engines, or crankshafts designed to make a certain exhaust noise?

Guys on Goldwings are going 2-300,000 miles without a rebuild, but the Harley faithful would never accept a modern engine like that.