Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Badger Mike]

Has anyone replaced their SE 110 with the S&S 111?  I'm interested in what your thoughts are.

[RayG]

Not familiar with the motor you listed but I did have an S&S 124" crate motor with the 66mm Throttle Hog installed last spring.  I have about 5K miles on it now.  There is some info on this site with a GMR install with the DYNO sheets.  Mine sheet is almost identical.  Not a kick ass motor but a good touring platform, runs so much cooler than the 110 I can't believe it's an air cooled motor.  If you need additional info let me know.

Ray G.

[Badger Mike]

Thanks, I'm moving forward with the 111, but I now it's very similar to the 124, just a shorter stroke, so that's good to know.

[ultrafxr]

Not familiar with the motor you listed but I did have an S&S 124" crate motor with the 66mm Throttle Hog installed last spring.  I have about 5K miles on it now.  There is some info on this site with a GMR install with the DYNO sheets.  Mine sheet is almost identical.  Not a kick ass motor but a good touring platform, runs so much cooler than the 110 I can't believe it's an air cooled motor.  If you need additional info let me know.

Ray G.

Where can I find info on the S&S 124" crate motor for 2007 & up twin cams?  On their website I can only see information for up to model year 2006.   

[FLH91]

Jerry, are you thinking about it for Jester??  That would be pretty cool! 

[ultrafxr]

Just planning ahead for the next failure, lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Para Bellum]

Just planning ahead for the next failure, lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That would be funny if it wasn't so true!

[RayG]

You will find more info on the S&S motors on the Star Racing web site.  Tel # 1-800-841-7827.  They sell the same motor along with the B2 heads and other high performance products.  I hope that helps. 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

You will save money by going through a S&S dealer in your area. The engines are the same thing as the early version only at this point made with SE cases. Or you may get the new S&S case for the engine. Front mount fine spline crank had to change.  I keep reading how its a star racing deal that is so far from correct its not funny. The engine is 100% S&S now a month ago it would have had HD cases now that they make there own its all S&S.

The 111 is another great engine and runs very well we have done many of those as well hp falls in to the 110 range tq is 120. Super smooth easy going engine. Cost on the 111 is in the 5300 range on the 124 you are looking at approx 6000. Local dealer may give better price or not cannot help you with that. Here is some info on the new S&S case

[RayG]

Steve,

I agree 100% on purchasing the motor from your S&S local dealer.  I was only suggesting looking at the Star Racing website for information on the crate motors.  I was following some old post the other day on another site and there was quite a bit of confusion on oil pumps, cams, heads and other items that were included on one motor vs another.  In no way was I suggesting going to a shop other than an S&S authorized dealer.  I'm going through warranty issues on my 124 crate at the moment.  It was one of your post with the attached DYNO and some info from Dewey that helped me decide on a 124" vs a 117" rebuild.  I have no regrets on going with the 124 but I miss the low RPM kick ass my 110 had.  The 124 seems like it could cruise @ 100 mph for hours on end.     

[ltank]

I have S&S V111 motor for 18 months with close to 30,000 miles with no problems at all. Made lots of 800 mile trips and one 3000 mile trip cruising the Smokey mtns ..Mine is Carb. Runs, Starts easily. Hauls Ass!Love it
Ltank

[Badger Mike]

Would different cams on the 124 give it a bit more grunt on the low end?  I would assume that you could order the 124 with whatever cams you want in it from the factory?  It also looks like the engine colors on the S&S motors don't match the Harley colors, meaning new clutch and tranny too?  Maybe that's recommended anyway with that big of a motor?

[RayG]

The answer is yes there is a cam available that will give it more grunt at low RPM's, but I don't know if they will have it installed while maintaining the warranty.  I don't have my paperwork in front of me but I believe they come with a 640 but the 625 and maybe a small bump in compression would give it some real low end performance.  I would talk with some vendors on this site that have installed the S&S version you want.  Who knows maybe you will find a vendor that has a little pull at S&S for a cam change while maintaining the one year warranty.  My 08 was all granite & the new 124 is black.  It's not really a big deal as there are many options such as chrome packages to cover some areas.  I installed a chrome inner primary so that covered one side for color matching.  I think Steve from GMR posted that removing the tranny and having it powder coated black was not a big deal.  If I need some tranny work in the future I will consider having the Baker oil pan and & the tranny match the motor.  My choice was easy I wanted a non OEM motor so I didn't have to worry about crank run out, lifters etc.  I was in a position where I had to do something.  I would look at the S&S web site to locate a dealer near you or pick one you like if you are having it installed and go from there.  I think you are going to see a lot more S&S motors find there way into HD chassis in the near future.  I have said it before but the difference in heat is absolutely amazing, and that may mean a longer life.         

[Badger Mike]

Thanks Ray,  I'm in the same situation here, need a new motor, and want to go S&S, but nothing seems to match up without addional mods.  I was hoping to just drop the 124 in and go, but concerned about matching colors up and other component failures like the tranny and clutch.

It's a short riding season here in WI, so was hing to get going on this soon.

[RayG]

Would it help you if I sent you some photos?   When it stops raining I plan to wash the bike as it got nasty the last time I was out.  After that I can take some specific shots if you think they will help.  The black motor won't even matter on the left side if you put the chrome inner primary or the HD chrome inner chrome bolt on cover.  The starter is black so that looks OK, it's only where the tranny bolts on to the block and the oil pan (right side).  Your pan will not show as much as mine because of the shape of the Baker +1 oil pan.  I saw a bike with some chrome covers that would just about cover the whole area.  You may have to look through the parts catalog for the chrome pieces required.   I was concerned at first but the pluses out weighed the minuses, but you have to do what is right for you.  Once I'm moving I only care about the quiet powerful motor. 

I ride two up quite a bit and had a interesting ride the other day.  I was turning off of a mountain road onto a 50 MPH road when a BMW1200GS prevented me from passing.  He was all leathered up toe to toe and was tucked in and fighting for every ounce of power when my wife & I went by him.  Having a Road King I didn't dare look down at my speedometer, but we were going about as fast as I ever had.  I didn't intend to go that fast I just got caught up in the moment.  Wife just said are we good for the day now! The BMW owner just shook his head in disbelief.  He was probably use to walking by older Harleys.  It would be like driving a new high performance Mustang when an older VW pulls out to pass while you are helpless to do a thing but watch.   Don't have many good day's but that was one of them!     

[Unbalanced]

Would different cams on the 124 give it a bit more grunt on the low end?  I would assume that you could order the 124 with whatever cams you want in it from the factory?  It also looks like the engine colors on the S&S motors don't match the Harley colors, meaning new clutch and tranny too?  Maybe that's recommended anyway with that big of a motor?

If you have a stock 124 and want low end grunt and quickness you might consider the 585 cam for it.   As long as you stay around the 10.8 to 11 to 1 you should have no issues with PMS on the bike.   With Sach's headwork and the 585 they make 135-142 torque and 122-126 hp and are right at 10.8-11 :1 with NO PMS.   Both are installed with EZ start cams and run fantastic one in a softail and the other in an ultra.   Upgrade of the clutch was needed in both bikes, and they went with the S&S clutch package.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I have the LOW COMP 124 getting ready for tune now.. Can post up once done if you want to see the numbers

[ultrafxr]

I have the LOW COMP 124 getting ready for tune now.. Can post up once done if you want to see the numbers

So what do you use as a base map for a starting point when tuning one of the S&S motors?  Everything I've seen with SERT/TTS refers to moco oem motors.   

[Badger Mike]

Ray,

I would love some pictures! 

Thank you.

Mike

[RayG]

Mike,  I will try to get them out to you as soon as I can.  I received your PM and hope you get all the info you need to make a decision.  It's raining again but I did get her washed!

[Badger Mike]

Thanks, I'm going up to the shop this afternoon after work to dig into options a bit more.  I would really like to get some riding in before the weather turns here.

[Badger Mike]

So, have decided to put in a S&S 124 in the bike, now the problem of matching it up with the rest of the bike!  The damn colors don't match with the black S&S motor and the CVO grey parts

I can go with a DD7 Baker drive train, then what to do on the clutch side?  Why are things never easy

[LC110]

Paint or buy a black trans case and transplant your parts. Shouldn't be to tuff to work around and not have to spend to much more money.
I hope your build goes well, should be a great bike when your done.

[Badger Mike]

I looked at buying a new black case, it's $1,500!  Most likely will just gut the HD one and powder coat it, then put in the Baker DD7.

[RayG]

Since you are in Wisconsin your winters are on the long side, and that should give you the time needed to remove the tranny and the oil pan to have them color matched.  That should not cost that much at all.  I would have done it but it was getting close to riding season and like you our winters are long.  I trust you got the photos I sent?  I may stop at the local shop and have one of the parts guys do a search for me to check for coverage availability.  Quite a few guys have replaced the granite motor with the SE 120 so we find something that covers the right side.  If I find something I'll let you know.  I don't know how hot your 110 ran but mine was an oven on steroids, the S&S is unbelievably night & day.  Not so much heat, noise and the mid range is outstanding.  I do believe there will be more joining our ranks unless they make the 139 or the 145 available to fit our frames.  What a sickness!  Keep us posted on your progress, what exhaust are you going with? 

[Badger Mike]

Thanks Ray,

I didn't get the pictures, I'll check my SPAM folder, maybe they got caught up in there.  Ordered the 124 today, as well as the tranny.  We're trying to get S&S to powdercoat the tranney case for us to match the motor, otherwise will get close with another powder coater in Milwaukee.  My mechanic found a chrome primary cover to replace the granite for a couple hundred, so we should be good there.  The oil pan will be the only non-matching part at this point, but we can work on that over the winter.

Looks like I'll have a used 110 for sale on the site soon

[ltank]

Baker does not endorse the DD6 or DD7 for high HP/TQ Motors. They will not honour warranty in some cases. They recommend the Over Drive transmission.

[Badger Mike]

I talked to Baker today and they have no problems with their warranty and the 124. 

I have all the parts except for the motor, that should come later this week.  Then it's go time!

[JamesButler]

Realizing this thread's been dormant for 10 months, but I'm looking for an update.  How are the DD7 and the 124T working together?  Also, what cam and anything else you want to add?

[prodrag1320]

If you have a stock 124 and want low end grunt and quickness you might consider the 585 cam for it.   As long as you stay around the 10.8 to 11 to 1 you should have no issues with PMS on the bike.   With Sach's headwork and the 585 they make 135-142 torque and 122-126 hp and are right at 10.8-11 :1 with NO PMS.   Both are installed with EZ start cams and run fantastic one in a softail and the other in an ultra.   Upgrade of the clutch was needed in both bikes, and they went with the S&S clutch package.

we do a fair amount of lower compression (10.5-1)124"`s with 585 cams,VERY nice set up,around 130/135 on past builds (we`re doing a B motor for a guy in California right now)

[Badger Mike]

The DD7 and 124 are now working well together.  Dynojet came back with a fix to the problem of the 7th gear cruise issue.  I've also replaced the stock clutch basket and replaced it with a 46 tooth billet clutch basket and a 30 tooth engine sprocket.  No more Compensator!

While I lost some top end in the process, 0-100 is an unbelievable ride!

[Rooster]

Are you using the Evo Industries 30t sprocket? I tried that a few years back and just got horrible vibrations and had to put in the HD unit. Through town it was fine but over 50 not good.

[Badger Mike]

Not sure where my mechanic got the sprocket from, someone out of CA.  I'm really impressed with the low end torque, but a bit dissapointed in the loss of speed.  Reminds me of what I used to do to snowmobiles when we raced them, to get more hole shot and more power out of the corners.

I have not gotten enough highway time on the bike yet to see how I like that part.  It is married with a S&S 124, so there's plent of motor there, and I don't normally drive over 100 mph, so I'm hoping it will all be good. 

[ltank]

I have a V111 with over 45,000 miles and not a single problem (carb). Smoothe, starts easy, has good power, accelleration,
585 cam sounds great and has good street and highway manners. Rode through the Smokies of Tennesse and NC on a 2800
mile trip. I love the motor. Performace should be same as mine.

[Unbalanced]

Not sure where my mechanic got the sprocket from, someone out of CA.  I'm really impressed with the low end torque, but a bit dissapointed in the loss of speed.  Reminds me of what I used to do to snowmobiles when we raced them, to get more hole shot and more power out of the corners.

I have not gotten enough highway time on the bike yet to see how I like that part.  It is married with a S&S 124, so there's plent of motor there, and I don't normally drive over 100 mph, so I'm hoping it will all be good.

Badger Mike,

I have the lower gearing in my 04 and the 02 without, its not the same as the newer bikes but not that far off either.   The 04 is a bit quicker out of the hole and downlow with the 3:37 gearing, but overall not that much quicker than the 124 with 3:15 gearing.  Managing the power to the ground is the bigger problem that you find with the big motors that produce, but I wanted to try it.  The place where I find the most increase is with the speed shifter from Dynojet allowing the R's to stay high and keep more in the power without having to pull in the clutch as it shuts down the injectors and saves the mashing of the tranny.   I have it tied to a zero'd out power commander 5.   Increases the fun factor quite a bit.

[Badger Mike]

agreed, the speed shifter is amazing.  My son has one on his Kawasaki and it's unbelievable.  I frankly was more concerned with getting a clutch basket that would hold up to the upgraded 124 and Barnett Clutch system.  I also have a Baker DD7 on the bike, direct gear seemed to be the way to go as long as we were changing  everything up.  We'll see how I like it, but for now it's a ton of power to the rear wheel when you need it

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I am just about ready to bolt a new 111 into a bike. I hope to have the OD6 and 111 in place by end of the day.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

The DD7 and 124 are now working well together.  Dynojet came back with a fix to the problem of the 7th gear cruise issue.  I've also replaced the stock clutch basket and replaced it with a 46 tooth billet clutch basket and a 30 tooth engine sprocket.  No more Compensator!

While I lost some top end in the process, 0-100 is an unbelievable ride!

With a Wood 9F, or T-Man 662-2, you have that big punch down low, and it rips it out the back as well, set at 11.0-11.2 cr.
Dan Thayer tuned one of our 124/.585/OE HD castings, modified/58mm hog/true duals to 129/137 at 180 ccp.
Have a 111 in here now huffing oil at only about 1200 miles on it.
Found oil control rails were only about .100" stagger if that................so far.
Scott

[Ridgerunr]

Being the 111" is a square motor (4.125X4.125) I know it would be an excellent tourer. I had a S&S (evo) 100" (4X4) in a batwing bagger...suuper smooth. I'm thinking with the right compression a 24D in a 111" would be awesome. 

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

They are smooth, but they ain't no barn-burner.

[ltank]

The 111 are Touring motors with very good performance. Got 45,000 on mine without a singe problem. You will not get that from a race motor on the streets and highways.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Race engines belong on the race track.
Scott

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

The 111 are Touring motors with very good performance. Got 45,000 on mine without a singe problem.

   

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

They are smooth, but they ain't no barn-burner.

Yep.

[ltank]

The 585 cam has good power that does not beat up the valve train that needs a valve job every 25,000 miles. Roller Rockers not required either.  I really Love mine a lot. Still using
Original lifters.

[FlaHeatWave]

The DD7 and 124 are now working well together.  Dynojet came back with a fix to the problem of the 7th gear cruise issue.  I've also replaced the stock clutch basket and replaced it with a 46 tooth billet clutch basket and a 30 tooth engine sprocket.  No more Compensator!

While I lost some top end in the process, 0-100 is an unbelievable ride!

Let us know how you like that solid sprocket when you get some miles on it???