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Author Topic: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?  (Read 15594 times)

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DrSpencer

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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2013, 04:30:05 PM »

I have Bitubo rear shocks & AK-20 up front on my Street Glide, both from Traxxion Dynamics. Can't imagine anything better for this application.
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2013, 09:37:51 PM »

Thank you very much for the information on the Bitubo WME.  I may give them a try for my CVO King.
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2013, 10:27:48 AM »

I've read all sorts of "I like this more than that one", but at the end of the day just about anything is better than the stock HD systems, like my 12" air shocks on my '09 SERG.

So my question is this, with everyone "testing and trying" several types of shocks from as many manufacturers, do any of these improve tire wear and help eliminate cupping?

In the car industry cupping is said to be cause mainly from bad shocks; that's a very general assumption that doesn't take into account the many other minor things that could cause cupping like tire balance etc.

I'm just wondering how much, if any, tire wear you guys are getting with Traxxion front/rear over stock HD setup.

Thanks and I do enjoy reading all the different reviews of the frontends and rear shocks.  I changed the oil to 10w racing front fork oil in my 12" air stockers and that made a good difference and then I got a good deal on Progressive 440's heavy springs and that was a bit better.  I'm still thinking about doing something more substantial maybe this winter.
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Dan

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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2013, 12:49:03 PM »

I don't think any shock or front end system will improve tire wear. Cupping can be cause by poor contact with the road surface, but in the case of our bikes, the cupping problems can be a defective tire. Also air pressure plays a part.  But, a good front suspension will keep the front tire from "skipping" across the road surface, as the suspension is better able to respond to irregularities in the pavement. That is just one of the things immediately noticed when installing something like the Traxxion AK-20 cartridges and a really good set of rear shocks. Putting heavier weight oil in the shocks/forks does nothing but make the suspension stiffer and in fact can make the tire contact problem worse, as the thicker oil has a harder time passing through whatever valves/orifices are in the shocks/front end and inhibiting response.  The stock HD forks contain an emulator, but that is light years different than a true cartridge.

On a scale of 1-10, with stock being 1 and something akin to Bitubo shocks being 10, I would say the 440 HD are a 3 or 4, at best.

I have yet to hear a single person on this site say that they feel that the money spent on quality suspension components was not well worth it and that they wish they had done so LONG ago.  It's one of those things that you just don't realize how BAD the stock stuff is until you have something to compare it to.  People think nothing of spending $2000 on cams, and other motor components to increase HP/TQ, but balk at the idea of spending that same amount on suspension to make the ride and handling significantly better.
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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2013, 04:51:09 PM »

I don't think any shock or front end system will improve tire wear. Cupping can be cause by poor contact with the road surface, but in the case of our bikes, the cupping problems can be a defective tire. Also air pressure plays a part.  But, a good front suspension will keep the front tire from "skipping" across the road surface, as the suspension is better able to respond to irregularities in the pavement. That is just one of the things immediately noticed when installing something like the Traxxion AK-20 cartridges and a really good set of rear shocks. Putting heavier weight oil in the shocks/forks does nothing but make the suspension stiffer and in fact can make the tire contact problem worse, as the thicker oil has a harder time passing through whatever valves/orifices are in the shocks/front end and inhibiting response.  The stock HD forks contain an emulator, but that is light years different than a true cartridge.

On a scale of 1-10, with stock being 1 and something akin to Bitubo shocks being 10, I would say the 440 HD are a 3 or 4, at best.

I have yet to hear a single person on this site say that they feel that the money spent on quality suspension components was not well worth it and that they wish they had done so LONG ago.  It's one of those things that you just don't realize how BAD the stock stuff is until you have something to compare it to.  People think nothing of spending $2000 on cams, and other motor components to increase HP/TQ, but balk at the idea of spending that same amount on suspension to make the ride and handling significantly better.
Well said thanks for sharing  :2vrolijk_21:
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2013, 05:21:41 PM »

I don't think any shock or front end system will improve tire wear. Cupping can be cause by poor contact with the road surface, but in the case of our bikes, the cupping problems can be a defective tire. Also air pressure plays a part.  But, a good front suspension will keep the front tire from "skipping" across the road surface, as the suspension is better able to respond to irregularities in the pavement. That is just one of the things immediately noticed when installing something like the Traxxion AK-20 cartridges and a really good set of rear shocks. Putting heavier weight oil in the shocks/forks does nothing but make the suspension stiffer and in fact can make the tire contact problem worse, as the thicker oil has a harder time passing through whatever valves/orifices are in the shocks/front end and inhibiting response.  The stock HD forks contain an emulator, but that is light years different than a true cartridge.

On a scale of 1-10, with stock being 1 and something akin to Bitubo shocks being 10, I would say the 440 HD are a 3 or 4, at best.

I have yet to hear a single person on this site say that they feel that the money spent on quality suspension components was not well worth it and that they wish they had done so LONG ago.  It's one of those things that you just don't realize how BAD the stock stuff is until you have something to compare it to.  People think nothing of spending $2000 on cams, and other motor components to increase HP/TQ, but balk at the idea of spending that same amount on suspension to make the ride and handling significantly better.

Thanks for the information and observation from your experience.

The 10w oil did make the bike "feel" better because of all the bottoming out when riding two up.  And as far as the 440's go, they were a great deal and I could afford to give them a try.  You're right, they were maybe a 20% to 30% improvement to the bike.

But I'm guessing installing either the HD front cartridge kits or the Progressive Monotubes would get me in the 7 to 9 range on your scale of 1 stock and 10 Traxxion.

I can be aggressive when riding, but with the wife riding most of the time we prefer to ride slower and enjoy the view etc.  My wife commented that when I traded in my 15k mile '08 SERK for the '09 SERG, that she noticed me running faster in the corners and leaning more.  I do not try to do that, but there obviously is a big difference between the '08 and '09 frames, one of the main reasons I traded up.  Oh I also feel in love with the arse end when I saw the '09 SERG in Rapid City in '08 Sturgis.  I guess I might have traded up regargless of the frame, but since my wife loved the SERK and dislikes the SERG, it had to be the frame and other improvements that I traded up for...  ;D  ;D  ;D

As far as rationalizing the cost of engine versus chassis upgrades and $$$$'s, I'll share my own thoughts on this.

In my mind changing chassis items is hard to get past becuase the MOCO should have made it right in the first place.  But engine improvements, read more torque and hp, is a voluntary thing that really doesn't need to be done and it's something you want to do, not have to do.

I know, that sounds totally backasswards, but in my mind it makes since.  If I were to want more power I would not hesitate to do it, but for my current riding style and the wife, I'm happy with my warmed over TTS/2" Fullsac upgrade.  I'll also say that the totally stock '09 SERG outperformed my '08 SERK with V&H Oval slipons, SE-AC and PCIII and quick dyno.  So "wanting" a bit more rumble and less heat was an easier choice than doing the chassis upgrades.  But I'll probably bite the bullet and do the chassis modes this winter, but it's hard to break loose the money for something that I should have to do.

Thanks again on the input and sharing your experience on the subject.
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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2013, 09:05:29 PM »


But I'm guessing installing either the HD front cartridge kits or the Progressive Monotubes would get me in the 7 to 9 range on your scale of 1 stock and 10 Traxxion.

Here is my 10 cents on this.  On my 09 SERG I upgraded the front with Progressive Monotubes, biggest improvement I ever did to the bike.  The rear was upgraded to progressive 940's.  The bike handled better, and rode better.  In 2011 my wife got a new street glide, before we took delivery I had the progressive 940's put on the rear and HD's new front cartridge kit.  Much improved over stock.

My take on the two front ends, stock a 1, HD cartridge a 5 or 6 and the Monotubes would be a 7 or 8 on the 1 to 10 scale, and for the money I would say Monotubes are about the best buy.

My 13 will be getting Monotubes up front.  Not sure about the rear, looking for something better than the 940's.

Until the 09 bike, I had never put money in suspension, just into the motor.  Now I know better.  I improve the suspension too.  Heck on my wifes last two bikes the 11 and the 13 suspension is all we did.
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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2013, 10:37:59 PM »

I installed the rear Bitubo's today on my 2012 Road Glide Custom. Previous to this my upgrades are a S&S 124", Baker HD throwout bearing and Street Door, Evolution Industries Diamond Terminator Stage 1 49 tooth clutch, Baker Attitude Adjuster primary chain tensioner, TTS MasterTune tuned by me, Traxxion Dynamics AK-20's and now the new Bitubo's. I will be changing some things aesthetically and ergonomically soon as well as a set of custom wheels and floating rotors. The suspension upgrades are phenomenal! I installed adjuster fork caps on both sides for the AK-20's and changing the settings makes a huge difference in the handling and ride of the bike. You can set them soft to really soak up the bumps and still have excellent control or you can set them a little firmer for an unparallelled sport suspension. I am so happy with the improvement that I signed up to be a dealer and we will be offering these upgrades as a service in the shop. There's kinda a lot to installing the AK-20's and not something I would necessarily recommend for a novice mechanic but it is by far the best riding HD I have ever experienced and I ride a lot of bikes! Im very happy with the quality and improved ride! Heres a couple of pictures of what I installed today.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 10:04:53 AM by Fired00d »
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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2013, 10:39:41 PM »

Sorry its sideways. Here's another. If someone knows how to fix the photo being sideways I would appreciate it if you would please do that.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 10:06:33 AM by Fired00d »
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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2013, 10:41:13 PM »

Another...
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DrSpencer

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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2013, 11:47:00 PM »

2011 Street Glide.

Put on Progressive Monotubes up front & HD Premiums in the rear, great improvement over stock.

Upgraded to AK-20 up front & Bitubos in the rear, another quantum leap forward over the above setup.

Thanks

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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2013, 10:07:09 AM »

Sorry its sideways. Here's another. If someone knows how to fix the photo being sideways I would appreciate it if you would please do that.
Fixed. :2vrolijk_21:

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« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 10:08:41 AM by Fired00d »
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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2013, 10:19:19 AM »

Independent_1: What model Bitubo's are those? How do you like the ride with them?
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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2013, 04:51:13 PM »

Thank you Fired00d.
I dont have a lot of miles on the Bitubo's yet but in the five minute ride I have on them I can already tell the bike handles better and soaks up the bumps better. The AK-20's were a huge improvement and I opted for the adjustment on the fork caps for both rebound and compression and I can say I really impressed with how big a difference there is with a small adjustment. IT goes from really firm to really soft and even the soft setting doesnt have the nose dive the stock had and I had SE fork oil in the OE setup to help with the dreaded front end dive. Even bigger improvement yet is when you ride two up. The bike feels so much better running down the highway 2 up and I cant even put it into words. On the AK-20's however I highly recommend taking them to a professional shop to install these. It is not something I would recommend to a novice mechanic. Special tools are required as well as modification to the stock fork tubes and some grinding or use of a lathe is required to install the AK-20's. Dan att Traxxion Dynamics says they had two identical bikes at the shop there. One got a set of the Bitubo's and the other got a set of the leading competitors shocks and the difference in ride quality is unbelievable. They let several guys ride both bikes and every rider said the Bitubo bike was leaps and bounds ahead of the other bike. If you have further questions, Im more than happy to help. I am fairly new to this forum and although I have tuned one bike form this forum with great results and a happy customer, I dont feel like Ive been able to contribute much here. Im glad to finally feel like Ive contributed some pictures that guys seem to be interested in. Just let me know if I can help!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 06:20:07 PM by Fired00d »
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Re: '13 CVORK - Stock Shocks Gotta Go: BiTubo's, Öhlins...?
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2013, 07:46:00 PM »

I am a new dealer and installer for their products. Maybe he just thought since different weight ranges of folks would be trying out the new shocks on this bike the extra adjustability might be better? Just a guess, I'm not sure why he suggested the others. These are nearly double in price also. Could that be the difference? Whatever the case, I'd be interested in hearing why.
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