Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[smiley1049]

Put the shoe on the other foot and you bought the bike what wood you want?

[Mr. Wizard]

Business Ethics 101 would suggest that the buyer of the 2010 be informed of the situation and the "married" tuner be part of the sale or offered as a deal "sweetener" or for additional funds.  NOT providing this information could actually void a sale and possibly place the seller in some legal jeopardy, especially if the seller is a licensed dealer. If the buyer is informed, and does not want the part, he needs to sign a waiver.  That said, if it were me, the part is an integral part of the OS and would be included.

Regarding Charles question, stock maps are easily "flashed" to original by any Harley dealer, but that would only make sense if the bike was returned to original condition.  But ekim's question is a good one, although to remain consistent, I would say (as the seller) the tuner goes with the bike and it would be ekim's responsibility to buy a new PV unit for the new bike and his wife's.  

We all have bought and sold stuff, I think we can agree that "honesty and fairness" are things we all expect in a deal for something we are buying. The guy we are selling something to, deserves the same.

OWL

OWL... that's a great post

I just got screwed with a classic car purchase that was totally misrepresented by the seller. Took it to my shop and found lies stamped all over the car. The end result was the seller offered my money back in full plus anything I had extra in it. I'm still debating.

When buying a bike or a car it is always buyer beware. I don't agree with that but have had many conversations with guys looking to tune their bike with a TTS just to find all sorts of backyard antics with the motor.

Not giving the TTS (or any tuner married to the bike) just isn't right in my book. That's not disclosure. I've sold bikes that had a Dual TTS and offered to drop the price so he could order one or I would just take his money and buy another TTS for my needs. Being upfront isn't a risk. Being honest is always the correct path.

If not mistaking... the MT8 is the one that locks the ECM. The MT7 and earlier doesn't so it can be flashed with any tuner or Dig-Tech. The MT8 calibration is the culprit and there are many great reasons why the MT8 is the way it is. I can't argue with technical advances. I think everyone knows I'm a TTS junkie.

[charles05663]

Regarding Charles question, stock maps are easily "flashed" to original by any Harley dealer, but that would only make sense if the bike was returned to original condition.  But ekim's question is a good one, although to remain consistent, I would say (as the seller) the tuner goes with the bike and it would be ekim's responsibility to buy a new PV unit for the new bike and his wife's.  

The downside of having a dealer reflash the ECM is your bike will be flagged.  With the increased scruntiny that is happening at MoCo and the extended warranty writers it might give them reason to deny a claim.  I know that this is a 2010 and maybe out of MoCo warranty.

In Vermont they are starting to track this sort of stuff with cars for "environmental" reasons and I suspect that bikes will follow.

 

[TIMINATOR]

Two issues here: I always offer everything that I have with/for the bike that I sell, I let the buyer know that he can pick and choose what he wants for what ever price we can negotiate. His decision. I have and will have other bikes, so extra parts for me is not a problem, I can use them for trading stock too. THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE TO ME IS: I will NEVER buy any computer/tuner from anyone for any reason that will be married to the bike! They are selling their product for what they feel is a fair price, and probably a competitive price too. Other manufacturers can sell their unmarried products for a similar cost, so I FEEL that marrying a product to a specific bike is greed and nothing more. I swap pipes, seats, bars, and other parts between my bikes, and plan to do the same with newer or other bikes and parts that I may own (I like and own several Deuces). Its my choice, I PAID for those parts! Would you buy a seat, bars, pipes, bags, carburetor, windshield or anything else for your ride that, once installed could never be removed without destroying it? Of course not! How about a television, stereo, DVD, satellite receiver? Maybe it could be married to your address, you unplug it and its junk! As long as people will buy stuff from those manufacturers, they will keep doing it to you, because you let them. I CHOOSE NOT TO! Free country, kinda. Make your own decision. If you buy one specific tune for one bike, that's different. That's what you paid for.  P.S. I have an expensive Deuce tuner married to an extra computer, (it came with one of my Deuces) I can swap it into any of my Deuces.  TIMINATOR

[TIMINATOR]

Before any manufacturers jump in here, why don't you offer your product either married or open for different prices? Let the consumer decide if you are greedy! Why not? That would require a disclosure before purchase! I have not seen any tuner that prominently discloses the fact that the product is worthless if you decide to get a different bike and put this one back to stock before the sale, or if your bikes computer dies and you need to replace it, you need to also replace the tuner at your cost.          Let the B.S. begin!  TIMINATOR

[owl893]

that would be nice, but I think that even if you paid more for a "multiple installation" tuner the manufacturer's would realize a loss.  Tuner modules would become the "Napster" of the motorcycle world, sad but true.

OWL

[skratch]

in the case of the powervision, it is not junk once it is 'removed' from the bike.  true, it is married to the ecm, but it does not lock out the ecm from any other tuner, and you can purchase an additional license to use it on another bike for less than half the cost of a new tuner.  in my case, it's kind of moot because i traded the bike in to the dealer, not a private sale. the bike was dynotuned for the specific components that i had on it and if purchased by an individual and he wanted to 'retune' it, he could purchase whatever tuning device he wished and it would work fine.  but if it had been a private sale, i would have let the buyer know that it had been tuned with the pv and that i was keeping the unit.

i disagree with timinator that it is 'greed' that motivates the mfgs to lock the device to the ecm.  if that wasn't the case, you'd have people buying one tuning device, then tuning all their friends bikes with it.  i think dynojet has a good balance though.  you can buy the unit, and then purchase additional tuning licenses for a deep discount.

[Steve Cole]

Just for the record  Mastertune has always offered and still offers the ability to tune more than one bike, in it's unit, so what Dynojet has done is not something new or they have thought up. The units are different but it goes much deeper that that. For those of you not wanting to buy a product married to the bike that's fine, it a free country. Our position is really pretty simple, if your going to sell the bike, sell the tuner with it OR put the stock tune back in it so it can be tuned with ANY tuning device the new owner wants to use, it's just that simple. Covers everything people could want to do but the marketing hype gets twisted just about every-way possible trying to mislead people about it being locked.

[skratch]

i hope you weren't thinking that i was making a slam on your tuner steve.  i really have no experience with the tts, so i would not presume to tell people one tuner is better than another. 

the point i was making was that the bike was tuned for the components that it was sold with.  if the new buyer wanted to change components, then he would be responsible for tuning the bike for the new components and could basically use whatever tuning method he chose.  much like it would be with a 'stock' bike, only in this instance, stock included a high flow ac, and v&h twin slash exhaust.....

[Steve Cole]

No, just wanted to make sure people understood that things are not what some want them to believe they are. Each and every Mastertune owner can put his bike back to its original configuration anytime they wish, with the mastertune product. Some would like you to believe that is not the case and Powervision is no different in that respect. While both products get there different, they BOTH get there, none the less. Both products will allow the user to save and restore the original calibration. Now if that user does not follow the instructions that then becomes there problem and we at TTS Mastertune can still help the user out. I cannot speak for what Powervision may or maynot do.

[Midnight Rider]

It's simply not right to sell someone a bike that has been tuned with whatever device and not include the device in the sale...that should be taken into account when determining the asking price.  It is part of the bike, and required for the bike to operate properly if the owner decides he/she wants to make any changes in the future.  I also make the buyer fully aware of the potential warranty issues because of any changes I have made to the bike so that they are a fully informed buyer.

I not only include the tuner, but all cables required for connection, and I both e-mail the file(s) to the owner, and put copies on a CD that is included with the owner's manual.  I also feel it is my responsibility as the seller to tell the buyer about any and all changes I have made to the bike, offer any take off parts, and offer any extraneous parts like service manuals, rain covers, etc to the buyer for a reasonable price, not new prices for the same item.  If they choose not to purchase those additional items, I will then sell them after the fact.

But a tuner is NOT extraneous, and I could not live with myself knowing that at some point the new owner might be in for a big surprise.

[WFP]

X2

Any bike sold by me included what ever tuner was done even when traded in.  If you remove a tuner before sale and the bike was road tested by the buyer without the tuner then buyer beware....especially if the bike ran like ch!t

/Bill

It's simply not right to sell someone a bike that has been tuned with whatever device and not include the device in the sale...that should be taken into account when determining the asking price.  It is part of the bike, and required for the bike to operate properly if the owner decides he/she wants to make any changes in the future......

[Steve Cole]

Well there is at least a few of you guys that agree with the way I feel what should be done! When you built the bike with "x" parts to do what you want. If selling it with the parts still there the new buyer should get it all, but that for some reason seems to be in the minority opinion for a lot of people. We as a company need to make sure that we can help in all the cases and we can, and do. My personal opinion is just that and not always the company policy.