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[05Train]

Spent a fun and informative day in the dyno booth with Dave (former owner of JD's Cycleworks) yesterday. We spent about 6 hours working on the tune. It's close, but not quite there yet. The initial numbers are 109hp/115tq. We feel there's a bit more to be had.

The componentry:

- CVO 110 motor
- Chisel air cleaner
- Andrews 57 cam
- .030 head gasket
- HPI 55mm throttle body
- Axtel oil bypass system
- Torrington cam bearing upgrade
- S&S Premium lifters
- S/E pushrods
- Jackpot coated X-pipe
- Full-size cross-under
- S/E Fatshotz mufflers w/closed caps

Random Musings:

- More throttle body noise from the cam than I expected. It's not horrible, and I suppose I'll get used to it.

- Top-end noise is nonexistent.

- There's a nasty dip in the torque curve at 3,000rpm. Dave's thinking that the flow is backing up due to the closed caps on the mufflers. I'll bring the open caps I have next week to see if that makes a difference.

- Dear God it's quiet. I was running 15 discs w/closed caps with the 255s in there. That was right at the limit of how loud I wanted. With 20 discs now it's far quieter than it was. I'm thinking that 10~12 discs and open caps might be the solution to the torque dip and maintain the quiet I want.

- There's been a lot of talk about proper O2 sensor placement on various head pipes.  Certain people have mentioned that the Jackpot has issues with placement and therefore presents tuning problems.  I'm happy to report that those people are wrong.  We checked the A/Fs with widebands in the 18mm bungs and with sniffers in the pipes, and the readings were identical.  Another myth busted.

- It runs well. Really well. It spools up quickly and smoothly without peakiness. Just a steady rush of energy pushing me back in the seat.


Overall, this is a great touring combination. Cylinder pressure is low, so it won't be fussy about fuel and it's easy on the crank. It's nice and quiet, so it won't wear me out on a 12-15 hour ride. No, it's not an insane powerhouse build, but that's fine. It's a fun, reliable, non-tempermental combination that'll get me down the road without sounding like WWIII.  I know I'm leaving power on the table with the mufflers, but I value my hearing more than a dyno sheet I can brag about.

More to come next weekend when we finish it up.

[sloride]

if your butt dyno is making you smile ...then you have got where you started out to go

[CVO2FIXUP]

Finally, some realistic dyno numbers from a build that "Most" people do.  Not like some charts on here, 130/140 with nothing but slip ons and a filter. what a joke.

  Thanx for sharing a true and honest build result. Cheers.

[05Train]

Finally, some realistic dyno numbers from a build that "Most" people do.  Not like some charts on here, 130/140 with nothing but slip ons and a filter. what a joke.

  Thanx for sharing a true and honest build result. Cheers.

Dave's the Real Deal when it comes to tuning and he doesn't run a happy dyno.

When the sheet's ready I'll post it.

[Snakebyte]

Looks like it's going to be a fun ride.
See if you can get a cheap flash drive for your tunner to download onto, and maybe post some of the before and after graphs.
When I got my tuned I ended up with over 50 runs. Each making adjustments here and there.

[cahdbiker]

05Train, what do you think is the biggest factor in getting the top end quiet. I am still living with the top end noise in my 09. It runs so well with the Fulsac stage one set up I don't want to change too much, but the top end noise drives me nuts. I want to make an appt. with my mechanic, and if there is any info I could supply him with that would be great. Thanks in advance. CAHDBIKER

Spent a fun and informative day in the dyno booth with Dave (former owner of JD's Cycleworks) yesterday. We spent about 6 hours working on the tune. It's close, but not quite there yet. The initial numbers are 109hp/115tq. We feel there's a bit more to be had.

The componentry:

- CVO 110 motor
- Chisel air cleaner
- Andrews 57 cam
- .030 head gasket
- HPI 55mm throttle body
- Axtel oil bypass system
- Torrington cam bearing upgrade
- S&S Premium lifters
- S/E pushrods
- Jackpot coated X-pipe
- Full-size cross-under
- S/E Fatshotz mufflers w/closed caps

Random Musings:

- More throttle body noise from the cam than I expected. It's not horrible, and I suppose I'll get used to it.

- Top-end noise is nonexistent.

- There's a nasty dip in the torque curve at 3,000rpm. Dave's thinking that the flow is backing up due to the closed caps on the mufflers. I'll bring the open caps I have next week to see if that makes a difference.

- Dear God it's quiet. I was running 15 discs w/closed caps with the 255s in there. That was right at the limit of how loud I wanted. With 20 discs now it's far quieter than it was. I'm thinking that 10~12 discs and open caps might be the solution to the torque dip and maintain the quiet I want.

- There's been a lot of talk about proper O2 sensor placement on various head pipes.  Certain people have mentioned that the Jackpot has issues with placement and therefore presents tuning problems.  I'm happy to report that those people are wrong.  We checked the A/Fs with widebands in the 18mm bungs and with sniffers in the pipes, and the readings were identical.  Another myth busted.

- It runs well. Really well. It spools up quickly and smoothly without peakiness. Just a steady rush of energy pushing me back in the seat.


Overall, this is a great touring combination. Cylinder pressure is low, so it won't be fussy about fuel and it's easy on the crank. It's nice and quiet, so it won't wear me out on a 12-15 hour ride. No, it's not an insane powerhouse build, but that's fine. It's a fun, reliable, non-tempermental combination that'll get me down the road without sounding like WWIII.  I know I'm leaving power on the table with the mufflers, but I value my hearing more than a dyno sheet I can brag about.

More to come next weekend when we finish it up.

[05Train]

05Train, what do you think is the biggest factor in getting the top end quiet. I am still living with the top end noise in my 09. It runs so well with the Fulsac stage one set up I don't want to change too much, but the top end noise drives me nuts. I want to make an appt. with my mechanic, and if there is any info I could supply him with that would be great. Thanks in advance. CAHDBIKER

Everything I've read regarding the Axtel system leads me to believe that's a big factor in this.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Everything I've read regarding the Axtel system leads me to believe that's a big factor in this.

Stock 110 valve spring issue is nothing new, as well the low quality stock lifter. Sorry but after installing a few of the Axtell bypass kits that customers requested and brought us.

 I will say this.  An increase in oil PSI hot at idle. and maybe a 1-2 psi increase at cruise. but with out a true mechanical gauge could not be 100% on that. So if you think that is going to correct mechanical issues in your engine feel free to buy it.  Or if you want to correct the real issue that is creating the noise well then I am sure that will work out better for you in the end.

The 57 cam can make some noise at higher RPM but since the cam does not make any power in that area I would not see any reason to spin the motor that hard anyways. It has a great tq curve and once Dave gets it dialed in I am sure you will be very happy.

As for the FBW you are right the 57 does end up creating a ton of "cluck"  you are not the first to state that. One guy I  has pulled his 57 for that reason. He posted that up a few months ago.  Looking forward to seeing the end result.

[cahdbiker]

Thanks to all for the input. CAHDBIKER

[Steve Cole]

- There's been a lot of talk about proper O2 sensor placement on various head pipes.  Certain people have mentioned that the Jackpot has issues with placement and therefore presents tuning problems.  I'm happy to report that those people are wrong.  We checked the A/Fs with widebands in the 18mm bungs and with sniffers in the pipes, and the readings were identical.  Another myth busted.

While you may think it's a myth, it is anything but. They have an issue on several I have seen and worked with below 2500 RPM. Some even in the higher RPM but it depends on the build combination. While Dave is a great tuner and a personal friend of mine I would be interested in what test was really done down in this area, as I know very well what he can and cannot do. As long as your happy with it that's all that really counts

[TorqueInc]

Stock 110 valve spring issue is nothing new, as well the low quality stock lifter. Sorry but after installing a few of the Axtell bypass kits that customers requested and brought us.

 I will say this.  An increase in oil PSI hot at idle. and maybe a 1-2 psi increase at cruise. but with out a true mechanical gauge could not be 100% on that. So if you think that is going to correct mechanical issues in your engine feel free to buy it.  Or if you want to correct the real issue that is creating the noise well then I am sure that will work out better for you in the end.

The 57 cam can make some noise at higher RPM but since the cam does not make any power in that area I would not see any reason to spin the motor that hard anyways. It has a great tq curve and once Dave gets it dialed in I am sure you will be very happy.

As for the FBW you are right the 57 does end up creating a ton of "cluck"  you are not the first to state that. One guy I  has pulled his 57 for that reason. He posted that up a few months ago.  Looking forward to seeing the end result.

  I am not 100% sold on the bypass from axtell (I am going to try one) I have talked to three separate people in the last week about using the baisley springs and what Dan has to say about the plunger not sealing and the spring having the wrong tension.....and that is something that I think needs addressed.

   The next time my cam cover is off ill be adding a dual tensioner from Zippers.

[05Train]

While you may think it's a myth, it is anything but. They have an issue on several I have seen and worked with below 2500 RPM. Some even in the higher RPM but it depends on the build combination. While Dave is a great tuner and a personal friend of mine I would be interested in what test was really done down in this area, as I know very well what he can and cannot do. As long as your happy with it that's all that really counts

In other words, am I going to believe you (someone who never misses an opportunity to trash Jackpot and Fuel Moto) or my lying eyes?

Sorry Steve, but given your track record on this and other forums, you have zero credibility when it comes to discussing this.  You've chosen to take the low road too many times.

[Steve Cole]

In other words, am I going to believe you (someone who never misses an opportunity to trash Jackpot and Fuel Moto) or my lying eyes?

Sorry Steve, but given your track record on this and other forums, you have zero credibility when it comes to discussing this.  You've chosen to take the low road too many times.

My track record as you call it, is just fine. I call it the way I see it and do not sugar coat it. Right is right and wrong is still wrong and the O2 position used by FuelMoto is still just as wrong today as it has been all along. If and when they fix it I will be glad to say so regardless of what you may think as it's the customers who end up with the problems from it.

[05Train]

My track record as you call it, is just fine. I call it the way I see it and do not sugar coat it. Right is right and wrong is still wrong and the O2 position used by FuelMoto is still just as wrong today as it has been all along. If and when they fix it I will be glad to say so regardless of what you may think as it's the customers who end up with the problems from it.

If you say so Steve.  I'm sure you're just as right about this as you were about the PV leaving a trace in the ECM (which is to say, not right at all).

It kind of proves my point though since you've gone out of your way to post in this thread just to badmouth another company's product. 

[Steve Cole]

Look you can keep digging this hole deeper if you like but rest assured the O2 location is wrong on the pipe discussed and the PV does leave a trace in the ECM. You may not like it but it is the way it is. You might want to give Dave a call too, as we talked this morning about what he found when testing and tuning your bike.

What I do not understand is why you want to twist this into something it's not. This is not about my feelings for FuelMoto or anyone else. It is about weather or not a product works properly, in this case as in others it did not, at least according to Dave your tuner and the testing he did on your bike. You brought this up and I've just responded, you've made a false statement about a myth that isn't a myth, but a fact, and Dave's own testing on your bike showed the same results according to him.