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[kick]

I got my cvo in the shop now because the one lifter took a chit , long story short , the dealer just called me and told me I hAve to pay extra to have the oil , that has metal shavings in replaced ,changed.shouldn't the warrant company pay for this also ?   

[grc]

I got my cvo in the shop now because the one lifter took a chit , long story short , the dealer just called me and told me I hAve to pay extra to have the oil , that has metal shavings in replaced ,changed.shouldn't the warrant company pay for this also ?   

Manufacturer's warranty would be yes.  ESP service contracts would depend on what the contract says.  Call the service contract customer service number and ask them directly, if you don't trust the dealer.

Btw, what else are they replacing other than the lifter and the oil?  If there is metal in the oil, there is metal throughout the engine.

Jerry

[FLH91]

What dealership is that??

[artanner1]

Rear lifter failed on mine and cracked the case...good luck

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Oil is not covered clutch brake pads its a wear item if a dealership took care of it then it was nice of them. Weird I know but oil is cheap compared to the rest of the deal. No reason you cannot drop off oil that you bought either 

[Unbalanced]

I hope they split your cases and cleaned the "Entire Motor" and Oil Cooler if you have one. 

[kick]

Lifters.  Cams, rods, etc all replaced , but not using hd parts , went with woods h7 cams , change the head pip to a jackpot XXX head pipe ,  I called them and talked to the service manager , they will cover all oil and filters ..

[kick]

And yes was the rear lifter that went and the bearing on the roll on the lifter also went and cut the cam up

[artanner1]

How many miles? 47,000 on mine

[kick]

17,000

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

All too common it seems.
Sad the moco doesn't have this in check.
Scott

[prodrag1320]

just replacing the parts & changing the oil is pretty scary,better hope they got all the debris out

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I worked in the dealership back when the T/C had cam bearing failures. You really do not want to know how many where full of metal that got a few new parts. oil filter and shipped down the road. HD warranty. 

[hrdtail78]

I would make sure they take off your pan or clean out your oil tank.  (what model bike)  It doesn't matter who is paying.  It needs to be done.  I do know if the dealer has to change your engine.  There is no warranty on the new one if they don't do this.

[kick]

2010 cvo street glide ..

[willyB]

Caught mine just in time at 22,000 miles. New GMR 577's and New S & S Lifters thanks to hrdtail78.

[willyB]

Here's the cam.

By the way, I'm sure you've seen me post this before but I really want people to see the problem and change out the lifters, at least, before they go KaBoom.

[FlaHeatWave]

My Dealer has never charged me for any fluids required during any Warranty or ESP work.

If there is metal in the oil, the motor should be thoroughly cleaned, otherwise it will come back apart soon... Depending on the remaining ESP you might not care

An easy check is to pull the Crank Position Sensor (one allen head bolt, the O-ring can be reused) if the CPS has any metal at all on it = Doom

[rottenroger]

Well it looks like I joined the ranks with lifter problems. I took mine in for an early 30k checkup because I was hearing a noise it doesn't normally make. I lost a lifter on one of my intake valves.
It wasted the cam and the oil pump. So they are going to flush everything install new cams (stock), different lifters none stock, upgraded cam plate with new oil pump. I have only 28k on the bike so the shop foreman it talking to Harley to see if they will help out. No warranty and no ESP.... can you say  ka ching. Anyway they are pulling the parts together and I should get the bike back next week. Installing new Metzeler ME 880 front and back new Lyndall rotors and pads up front and new pads in the back. may be I'll be good for few more 1000 miles

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

 Sorry to hear the issue's . HD  lifter is a poor quality item its that simple.

[artanner1]

Metal shavings in oil pan from lifter failure

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Seen it all too many times.

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

As you can see how important it is to remove pan and clean it. As well look above ( IE bottom side of trans case) the powder coat has a great way of trapping small particles of metal. Taking the time to thoroughly clean this entire area is very important.

[grc]

After looking at how much debris winds up in the oil pan (which means it had to make its way from the other areas of the engine into the sump and through the scavenge side of the oil pump before it gets to the pan), just think how much similar debris is stuck to the inner surfaces of all those other castings as well as in the various bearings.  The only way, IMHO, to properly handle such failures is to strip the entire engine and clean and inspect everything.  Any bearing that is even slightly suspect should be changed.  But how often do you suppose the MoCo or the ESP folks really do this, versus just replacing a few obviously damaged parts and buttoning it up, hoping it lasts just long enough to get you out of warranty or to have the ESP expire?

Jerry

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

After looking at how much debris winds up in the oil pan (which means it had to make its way from the other areas of the engine into the sump and through the scavenge side of the oil pump before it gets to the pan), just think how much similar debris is stuck to the inner surfaces of all those other castings as well as in the various bearings.  The only way, IMHO, to properly handle such failures is to strip the entire engine and clean and inspect everything.  Any bearing that is even slightly suspect should be changed.  But how often do you suppose the MoCo or the ESP folks really do this, versus just replacing a few obviously damaged parts and buttoning it up, hoping it lasts just long enough to get you out of warranty or to have the ESP expire?

Jerry

Well ESP contracts vary but they always look to do as little as they can. I agree its a fix however if they wont step up you can explain to the end user that its extra to go the rest of the way or.. several oil changes int he next 500 miles. 

[RayG]

Well you heard it from the experts on splitting the cases and doing a thorough cleaning.  If they handed me the bike back without getting all the debris out it would be very hard to even think of taking a long trip.  There are enough issues with out having a ticking bomb that will most likely last until the warranty is up.  Actually I really wouldn't worry about my next trip because I would not even consider taking it home unless it was done right.  I know what I would do, but that is just me, others might handle it differently. 

[DrSpencer]

Is this lifter issue specific to 110 inch engines only?

Is a 2011 103" w/SE255's immune from this problem?

Thanks

[SBB]

Is this lifter issue specific to 110 inch engines only?No

Is a 2011 103" w/SE255's immune from this problem? No

Thanks

SBB

[Banana man]

My 9 year old 103 had the problem and the newer ones have the same problem so I don't think any of them are Immune from that. IMO better to just go in and change them before anything happens that would cause more damage in the future.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

You'd think that HD's engineering would be embarrassed as to these rampant issues?
Maybe it doesn't matter?
Scott

[chicoman]

Must not, they sell alot of these things. Maybe if we stop buying them they will improve

[artanner1]

As you can see how important it is to remove pan and clean it. As well look above ( IE bottom side of trans case) the powder coat has a great way of trapping small particles of metal. Taking the time to thoroughly clean this entire area is very important.

Man I'm glad I read this!!! you were right....In the oil passage top of transmission going to the oil pan I thought I had it clean, took a strong magnet and went all over the area, found small particles on the magnet...Thanks for sharing!!!

[Banana man]

You'd think that HD's engineering would be embarrassed as to these rampant issues?
Maybe it doesn't matter?
Scott

He said HD and Engineering in the same sentence.    HD engineering has been on a long vacation. In fact I think I heard they eliminated that department all together. 

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

I hear you, but when the T/C was being advertised when it was first coming to the market, the crank was touted as being able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, and had the ability to be more powerful than a speeding locomotive..............they were wrong on that as well...
Scott

[Banana man]

I hear you, but when the T/C was being advertised when it was first coming to the market, the crank was touted as being able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, and had the ability to be more powerful than a speeding locomotive..............they were wrong on that as well...
Scott

yes they were very wrong on that. As we all know the crank is one of the major weak points in that engine.

[grc]

The pressed cranks always had the potential to shift in use, especially hard use, but the big difference IMHO was when Harley made the change to the 2007 (2006 Dyna) crank and primary designs.  With the '99-'06 cranks, they typically came from Harley with .001 or less runout.  With the new design and tooling changes for 2007, that "straight from the factory" runout figure more than quadrupled.  So the crank was a piece of crap from the moment it was pressed together, before anyone even had a chance to use it hard.  And in typical Harley fashion, they haven't fixed the problem in the following seven years.

I think they need to just start selling rolling chassis and let customers install a good powertrain from other sources.

Jerry

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

2004 88"ers and 2007 96" engines seem to have been the worse, with the 2004's being 3-4-5X as bad, from our experience.
Scott

[charles05663]

2004 88"ers and 2007 96" engines seem to have been the worse, with the 2004's being 3-4-5X as bad, from our experience.
Scott

Maybe after they got the first 100 years under their belt they figured they could slack off.

 

[rottenroger]

Well the bike is out of the shop with new lifters, cams, adjustable push rods and the new upgraded cam plate. Harley motor Co would not help out on anything. 28k miles and the motor sh*t the bed. The dealer knocked 400 and change off the bill because I do most of my service through them.I'm not sure if I'm going to keep it or sell it and buy something more reliable. Really disappointed in the way Harley stands behind their signature product.

[Jswerve]

Well the bike is out of the shop with new lifters, cams, adjustable push rods and the new upgraded cam plate. Harley motor Co would not help out on anything. 28k miles and the motor sh*t the bed. The dealer knocked 400 and change off the bill because I do most of my service through them.I'm not sure if I'm going to keep it or sell it and buy something more reliable. Really disappointed in the way Harley stands behind their signature product.

You see you had 28k and Harley banks on the garage queens and bar hoppers only racking up 1-2k a riding season. You exceeded the designed use LOL. I have 21k on my '12. I already had a valve bend and it left me stranded 600 miles from home. Gotta love them HD's (Hardly Driven?)

[johnsachs]

You see you had 28k and Harley banks on the garage queens and bar hoppers only racking up 1-2k a riding season. You exceeded the designed use LOL. I have 21k on my '12. I already had a valve bend and it left me stranded 600 miles from home. Gotta love them HD's (Hardly Driven?)

Here you go Jesse.
Local shop dropped off a 2012 CVO 110" rear head with a similar problem like you had. Guide was much worse than yours.
This was what I found, guide broke in half in the guide bore, exhaust valve slightly bent.
John

[Jswerve]

Here you go Jesse.
Local shop dropped off a 2012 CVO 110" rear head with a similar problem like you had. Guide was much worse than yours.
This was what I found, guide broke in half in the guide bore, exhaust valve slightly bent.
John

Hey John that sucks. Glad we got those junk stock guides and Springs out of mine! Call you soon to catch up!

Jesse

[phato1]

Here you go Jesse.
Local shop dropped off a 2012 CVO 110" rear head with a similar problem like you had. Guide was much worse than yours.
This was what I found, guide broke in half in the guide bore, exhaust valve slightly bent.
John

How the He** does that happen Seem to me there isn't much an owner can do to prevent that, I'm sure not going to pull the cylinder heads to inspect them -- but I may borrow a borescope from work and go in through the spark plug hole -- ASAP.

  sorry 

[HD Street Performance]

Same here
This 110 only had 6k on the clock

[Jswerve]

How the He** does that happen Seem to me there isn't much an owner can do to prevent that, I'm sure not going to pull the cylinder heads to inspect them -- but I may borrow a borescope from work and go in through the spark plug hole -- ASAP.

  sorry 

I can tell you what i would do if i bought a new bike.  I'd have the heads, cams, and exhaust upgraded and a real tune done right after break in.

[phato1]

I can tell you what i would do if i bought a new bike.  I'd have the heads, cams, and exhaust upgraded and a real tune done right after break in.

Just seems a shame that we've come to expect this....And have to come up with a plan to correct it. I remember someone else suggesting that HD could sell us the bikes without powertrains sortta like a lower cost option then we could put in our own engine and tranny.....

[Jswerve]

Just seems a shame that we've come to expect this....And have to come up with a plan to correct it. I remember someone else suggesting that HD could sell us the bikes without powertrains sortta like a lower cost option then we could put in our own engine and tranny.....

Honestly i would like that option. I agree it is sad.

[HD Street Performance]

I am in the same boat with my new 13 CVO
Clatters to beat hell.
"NORMAL" my ass. Sure I can fix it but why would I. I bought a new bike to ride not fix.
Well I guess if they all do that it is considered normal.
Somebody should give the MOCO a lesson in Critical Thinking.

[Unbalanced]

I am in the same boat with my new 13 CVO
Clatters to beat hell.
"NORMAL" my ass. Sure I can fix it but why would I. I bought a new bike to ride not fix.
Well I guess if they all do that it is considered normal.
Somebody should give the MOCO a lesson in Critical Thinking.

Dewey your nominated    

[twinotter]

  How about you stop buying the POS!!!!!  Tell HD why you will not buy their POS!!!!
Tell your friends not to buy their latest POS!!  If 100,000 bikes didn't get sold this coming year, and they (HD) knew they didn't sell because you have now refused to accept the junk they are pawning, I think they'd either step or go bankrupt!!
Tell them you are going to buy an Indian!! Maybe that would shake them up.
As things stand now, I personally wouldn't even consider a new HD of ANY type!! I would consider a new Indian Scout tho.   Buffalo

[Jswerve]

  How about you stop buying the POS!!!!!  Tell HD why you will not buy their POS!!!!
Tell your friends not to buy their latest POS!!  If 100,000 bikes didn't get sold this coming year, and they (HD) knew they didn't sell because you have now refused to accept the junk they are pawning, I think they'd either step or go bankrupt!!
Tell them you are going to buy an Indian!! Maybe that would shake them up.
As things stand now, I personally wouldn't even consider a new HD of ANY type!! I would consider a new Indian Scout tho.   Buffalo

Not a single bike on the market catches my eye like my HD and until one does I'm stuck.

[Trapperdog]

Not a single bike on the market catches my eye like my HD and until one does I'm stuck.

Once you've had the motor apart a few more times, replaced the comp a few more times, etc. all on your dime, Your eye begins to wonder

[Jswerve]

Once you've had the motor apart a few more times, replaced the comp a few more times, etc. all on your dime, Your eye begins to wonder

I hear what you are saying but you need to remember it's not just my eyes it's my wife's as well and she won't even bat an eye at another brand.

Jesse

[Chains]

Just seems a shame that we've come to expect this....And have to come up with a plan to correct it. I remember someone else suggesting that HD could sell us the bikes without powertrains sortta like a lower cost option then we could put in our own engine and tranny.....

Not only expect it, we have been trained to accept it and pay for the rebuild ourselves. Looks like mother Harley has done an excellant job of brain washing its followers. 

[Jswerve]

Not only expect it, we have been trained to accept it and pay for the rebuild ourselves. Looks like mother Harley has done an excellant job of brain washing its followers. 

Damn I get it from HD and Jerry Jones 

[HD Street Performance]

Dewey your nominated

Harry I am Don not Dewey
And in retrospect I have to say the MOCO must really have their critical thinking skills in order considering they have raised the bar beyond traditional philosophy (or lowered the depending on what seat you are in buyer or seller).

1. Build mediocre and they will come
2. Build mediocre and they will spend more with us to fix them, sometimes even on the initial purchase and we will call that "customizing" or "accessorizing". Roll add-ons into a finance purchase if possible
3. If in doubt on a new product release it anyway and beta test on the public
4. If a problem arises use every effort to patch the root cause or ignore issues that are not imminently dangerous
5. Train your dealers to browbeat customers into believing the issues with their bike are "normal" and weasel out of settling drivetrain issues whenever possible
6. Customer service moto: The answer is "NO" first then lets' talk about or negotiate a possible "YES"

The good:
I love every aspect of the style and the fit and finish is good.

The Bad:
The drivetrain, all inclusive
A poor support network

Things have changed considerably from the early 90s when the bikes were quality and you waited to get one. When the MOCO had issues they held back deliveries and went after the production system to improve efficiency and improve quality, a good thing for all.
Problem however is if a little is good then a lot more must be that much better. Fallacy!
The consumer lost on this iteration and here we sit. MOCO has record sales, higher profit per unit, lean manufacturing, and lower headcount (jobs) due to automation. Why change anything? A person smarter than me would buy their stock not their products.

[ultrafxr]

Harry I am Don not Dewey
And in retrospect I have to say the MOCO must really have their critical thinking skills in order considering they have raised the bar beyond traditional philosophy (or lowered the depending on what seat you are in buyer or seller).

1. Build mediocre and they will come
2. Build mediocre and they will spend more with us to fix them, sometimes even on the initial purchase and we will call that "customizing" or "accessorizing". Roll add-ons into a finance purchase if possible
3. If in doubt on a new product release it anyway and beta test on the public
4. If a problem arises use every effort to patch the root cause or ignore issues that are not imminently dangerous
5. Train your dealers to browbeat customers into believing the issues with their bike are "normal" and weasel out of settling drivetrain issues whenever possible
6. Customer service moto: The answer is "NO" first then lets' talk about or negotiate a possible "YES"

The good:
I love every aspect of the style and the fit and finish is good.

The Bad:
The drivetrain, all inclusive
A poor support network

Things have changed considerably from the early 90s when the bikes were quality and you waited to get one. When the MOCO had issues they held back deliveries and went after the production system to improve efficiency and improve quality, a good thing for all.
Problem however is if a little is good then a lot more must be that much better. Fallacy!
The consumer lost on this iteration and here we sit. MOCO has record sales, higher profit per unit, lean manufacturing, and lower headcount (jobs) due to automation. Why change anything? A person smarter than me would buy their stock not their products.

I do own some of their stock but unfortunately not enough that the gains come anywhere near paying the 'harley tax!'   

[Rooster]

I can tell you what i would do if i bought a new bike.  I'd have the heads, cams, and exhaust upgraded and a real tune done right after break in.

I tried that in 2007 and it backfired.

[HILLSIDECYCLE.COM]

Here you go Jesse.
Local shop dropped off a 2012 CVO 110" rear head with a similar problem like you had. Guide was much worse than yours.
This was what I found, guide broke in half in the guide bore, exhaust valve slightly bent.
John

John,
Seen the same here, actually in an 88".
Valve was bent like a pretzel.
Scott

[Jswerve]

I tried that in 2007 and it backfired.

Maybe I'll just by a convertible roadster 

[SBB]

Maybe I'll just by a convertible roadster 

They make a Polaris Slingshot in your color.

 

SBB

[Snuff™]

Here's mine after a bent valve.  Riding home from Sturgis this past weekend, 585 miles from home.  Getting on On-Ramp in 3rd gear ~4500RPM when pop, pop, and died.  Bike is 13 months old w/ 9,771 miles.

[grc]

Be careful posting all these "negative" comments; the Pollyanna's and Kool-Aid drinkers might come after you.  We all know that all of these reports of lousy quality and reliability are just the products of a negative mindset from a teeny tiny minority, while the truth is that the vast majority are enjoying a perfect experience with their perfect Harley motorcycles and perfect Harley service at the wonderful Harley dealerships.  Think positive thoughts, and trust in the Deity otherwise known as the MoCo, and things will be wonderful.  You just have to believe (and of course drink the Kool-Aid). Everything else is just a figment of your imagination.

Jerry

[Fired00d]

Be careful posting all these "negative" comments; the Pollyanna's and Kool-Aid drinkers might come after you.  We all know that all of these reports of lousy quality and reliability are just the products of a negative mindset from a teeny tiny minority, while the truth is that the vast majority are enjoying a perfect experience with their perfect Harley motorcycles and perfect Harley service at the wonderful Harley dealerships.  Think positive thoughts, and trust in the Deity otherwise known as the MoCo, and things will be wonderful.  You just have to believe (and of course drink the Kool-Aid). Everything else is just a figment of your imagination.

Jerry

Puff, puff, pass.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Jswerve]

Here's mine after a bent valve.  Riding home from Sturgis this past weekend, 585 miles from home.  Getting on On-Ramp in 3rd gear ~4500RPM when pop, pop, and died.

That is EXACTLY how mine failed, getting on the on ramp accelerating! Only I was 600 miles LOL. WOW!

[rottenroger]

Seriously considering selling ours and buying a Victory and a tractor for the property. Nothing spins me up worse than being played. Harley doesn't stand behind their signature product, and from all I've read they have known about the issues and continue to produce this crab without fixing it. The bent exhaust valve problem due to substandard valve guides allowing syn oil to leak by and gum up the valve shaft. This same is issue is causing lifter failures. I try to buy American as much as I can, but it becoming harder to find good quality American products from Corporate America. Not just a problem with Harley. For my part I don't live and die to ride a Harley. I ride to ride. I rode the hell out of my previous Jap bikes without these kind of problems. Don't get me wrong I really like my bike just not the problems it has and will continue to have unless I invest in some other motor. The rolling chassis idea is a good one. May be they could offer a motor option something else just not theirs.  Done done done.    By the way if you have heard anything bad about Victory product lets me know. From what I've read they are more reliable than Harley motors. Just not as pretty

[Jswerve]

Seriously considering selling ours and buying a Victory and a tractor for the property. Nothing spins me up worse than being played. Harley doesn't stand behind their signature product, and from all I've read they have known about the issues and continue to produce this crab without fixing it. The bent exhaust valve problem due to substandard valve guides allowing syn oil to leak by and gum up the valve shaft. This same is issue is causing lifter failures. I try to buy American as much as I can, but it becoming harder to find good quality American products from Corporate America. Not just a problem with Harley. For my part I don't live and die to ride a Harley. I ride to ride. I rode the hell out of my previous Jap bikes without these kind of problems. Don't get me wrong I really like my bike just not the problems it has and will continue to have unless I invest in some other motor. The rolling chassis idea is a good one. May be they could offer a motor option something else just not theirs.  Done done done.    By the way if you have heard anything bad about Victory product lets me know. From what I've read they are more reliable than Harley motors. Just not as pretty

I live in Iowa and Victory is assembled in Spirit Lake. I know when you tour the plant you will notice a lot parts on the line aren't from the USA just like Harley. A guy at work just bought a '14 Cross Country. He previously rode Honda VTX1300's. Looking forward to see how it holds up. He rolls up 10-12k a riding season.

This same guy at work was riding with a friend out to Sturgis this year. His friend had a 3 month old '14 SG. The bottom end blew up by Sioux Falls, SD. Not sure how it happened he didn't know the details. It happened on Saturday, he didn't get to Sturgis until Wednesday!

[twinotter]

Seriously considering selling ours and buying a Victory and a tractor for the property. Nothing spins me up worse than being played. Harley doesn't stand behind their signature product, and from all I've read they have known about the issues and continue to produce this crab without fixing it. The bent exhaust valve problem due to substandard valve guides allowing syn oil to leak by and gum up the valve shaft. This same is issue is causing lifter failures. I try to buy American as much as I can, but it becoming harder to find good quality American products from Corporate America. Not just a problem with Harley. For my part I don't live and die to ride a Harley. I ride to ride. I rode the hell out of my previous Jap bikes without these kind of problems. Don't get me wrong I really like my bike just not the problems it has and will continue to have unless I invest in some other motor. The rolling chassis idea is a good one. May be they could offer a motor option something else just not theirs.  Done done done.    By the way if you have heard anything bad about Victory product lets me know. From what I've read they are more reliable than Harley motors. Just not as pretty

  If you really like the bike, swap out the HD crap for a S&S 111, problems gone!! Just sayin' Buffalo