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CVO Technical => Wheels/Tires/Suspension/Brakes => Topic started by: longlast on May 08, 2020, 08:17:17 AM
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Didn't expect it to go as easy as it was going changing the the brake pads.
All went well with the rear pad change and the right hand front pads change.
Now the left hand caliper top fastener is seized and the 12 point head is f@#@ed. I'm also changing the stock fasteners over to stainless. As the lower fastener in the pic
Any one had this ? Any ideas how to proceed?
I've tried putting other sockets on with no luck the head just rounds off more.
I'm thinking I'll have to remove the wheel and cut the head off the bolt then pull the caliper off then remove the stud bolt and hope it won't snap off in the caliper.
Any suggestion then pulling the wheel,...not that it's a big deal pulling the wheel it's more of a nuisance
Any other suggestions welcome
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You could treat it like any other stripped screw... lots of methods. Because it's torqued on pretty well, maybe take an angle grinder with a cutting wheel and make a slit on the head so you can back it out with a flathead screwdriver bit? Kind of an awkward angle... it'd make sure to cover all your paint and chrome. At least you won't have to remove the wheel. Good luck!
Cheers
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For the bolt holding the caliper to the fork leg, correct?
Grab it with a big vice grips and give it a whack with a hammer.
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You could treat it like any other stripped screw... lots of methods. Because it's torqued on pretty well, maybe take an angle grinder with a cutting wheel and make a slit on the head so you can back it out with a flathead screwdriver bit? Kind of an awkward angle... it'd make sure to cover all your paint and chrome. At least you won't have to remove the wheel. Good luck!
Cheers
Was thinking that (cutting with an angle grinder. I've given it some good sharp hits to try and shock it .
I got an under size socket on it by waking if on with a 2lb hammer but no joy.
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For the bolt holding the caliper to the fork leg, correct?
Grab it with a big vice grips and give it a whack with a hammer.
That's correct :2vrolijk_21:
All my attempts are failing >:( grinder looking more and more like the answer
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penetrant on the back multiple wacks with a hammer. spray it and let it soak and do it again. then vise grips or most auto parts stores have stripped bolt extractor sockets
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penetrant on the back multiple wacks with a hammer. spray it and let it soak and do it again. then vise grips or most auto parts stores have stripped bolt extractor sockets
:2vrolijk_21: stripped bolt extractor socket maybe a solution
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There's not much thread into the aluminum caliper. A bit of PBlaster and either vise grips or specialty tool should break that loose. I'd personally hold off on the grinder a bit longer.
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There's not much thread into the aluminum caliper. A bit of PBlaster and either vise grips or specialty tool should break that loose. I'd personally hold off on the grinder a bit longer.
I agree I'll be exhausting all the position first.
I'll see if I can get a stripped bolt head socket. There are tools out there for grabbing hold of these rounded off bolt heads
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Im sure you know but just in case, dont get penetrant on pads on other side, and clean penetrant off of rotor with degreaser prior to reassembly.
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Any chance that with the lower caliper bolt removed you could rock the caliper itself back and forth enough for the bolt to break loose? Might need the wheel and rotor off to gain enough space to move it much. Still potentially worth a shot before getting too dramatic in other ways that might be more destructive.
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Im sure you know but just in case, dont get penetrant on pads on other side, and clean penetrant off of rotor with degreaser prior to reassembly.
Thanks for the reminder :2vrolijk_21: things can easily be over looked when you get rapped up in another issues
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Any chance that with the lower caliper bolt removed you could rock the caliper itself back and forth enough for the bolt to break loose? Might need the wheel and rotor off to gain enough space to move it much. Still potentially worth a shot before getting too dramatic in other ways that might be more destructive.
That a good idea Don, that may work if like you say there's room for it to swing. Trying to avoid pulling the wheel but if I have to like I've said it's not that big a deal to pull
I'll give it a try tomorrow I've shut it down for today.
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I actually had that happen a few years ago while helping out a friend. Went to Discount Auto and got a stripped bolt tool. It slipped over the head then had a "Cam" that tightened up against itself as you applied force with a strong arm. Soaked with PB before we left to get tool and it came right out, without much force actually.
Now anytime I need to do this job I have a couple new Snap-On brand sockets that are only for this operation.
Good luck.
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I would get a big center punch & give it a couple a good hits.
Then try a small pipe wrench with a pull pipe over the pipe wrench.
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;D success :orange:
I couldn't leave it till tomorrow.
I took a 3/8" 12 point socket hammered it onto the bolt head, then with an extension in the socket to hold it steady I put my 18" pipe wrench on the socket.
It took some pull but it did crack loose and I got it out with out it snapping. I'll be ordering up new bolts
That one bolt was well over the 28/38fb torque spec.
Thanks for all your input
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When assembling I would use some never seize & torque to specs.
Happy to hear you got it out! :drummer:
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Nothin like a good ol' pipe wrench. Glad you got it out.
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;D success :orange:
I couldn't leave it till tomorrow.
Dude! Aren't you glad you got a garage now?!?! :drink:
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Dude! Aren't you glad you got a garage now?!?! :drink:
No words can describe it,...only actions can :orange: :huepfenjump3: :mango: :bananarock: :apple: :carrot: :jalapeno: :cucumber: :pineapple: :pepper: :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: :drink: :drink: :drink: 😄
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;D success :orange:
I couldn't leave it till tomorrow.
I took a 3/8" 12 point socket hammered it onto the bolt head, then with an extension in the socket to hold it steady I put my 18" pipe wrench on the socket.
It took some pull but it did crack loose and I got it out with out it snapping. I'll be ordering up new bolts
That one bolt was well over the 28/38fb torque spec.
Thanks for all your input
Good job, could have been a lot worse
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Hi Pete,
Glad to see you got that bolt out without any further damage, looking at the photo, looks to me that someone has been a bit liberal with the thread locker, I would run a thread chaser through the leg bracket bolt hole just to be on the safe side, myself I do not put any thread locker on those, as they are easy to check for tightness and I have never had one come loose.
Hope you and yours are all keeping safe.
Trippy.
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Hi Mark,
Thanks mate, we're doing well and staying home other then the local shop for the smalls and each fortnight to the larger shop for the bigger shopping.
Hope all's well at your end and staying safe.
Thanks for the input.
yes I've have already run a tap down the threads the top bolts are a 1.25 thread 10x80mm bolt the bottom one are 10x40mm.
This is the fronts first pad renewal at 27k (I use engine braking a lot) . I've ordered up Titanium Hex Drilled Head Flange Bolts (as in the pic) with some copper grease (anti sieze) on the treads then after i torque them up I got stainless wire to wire the bolts I know then I'll not have any further trouble or them possibly coming lose.
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Drilled safety bolts on a street bike that's regularly maintained isn't something I'd ever have thought much about. Until about four or five weeks ago. Was 10 miles from home on my old FXR at the end of a 150 mile ride. Going through a roundabout suddenly had no front brakes. Front caliper fell off; just hanging there on the hydraulic line. It was a short but urgent "pucker" moment.
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Drilled safety bolts on a street bike that's regularly maintained isn't something I'd ever have thought much about. Until about four or five weeks ago. Was 10 miles from home on my old FXR at the end of a 150 mile ride. Going through a roundabout suddenly had no front brakes. Front caliper fell off; just hanging there on the hydraulic line. It was a short but urgent "pucker" moment.
Harley's like helicopters... safety bolts/wire ain't a bad thing. Oh... and I'd be talking to the guy that worked on your bike last... wait... would that be like "voices in your head? :nixweiss: :rolleyes3: :argue: :D :D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
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Harley's like helicopters... safety bolts/wire ain't a bad thing. Oh... and I'd be talking to the guy that worked on your bike last... wait... would that be like "voices in your head? :nixweiss: :rolleyes3: :argue: :D :D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Trust me Gary. Later that night I stood in front of the mirror and gave that guy a very dirty look!
I'd upgraded the front brakes on that bike two years before. PM caliper and bracket. Wish I knew which one came loose first. I'm assuming the lower. It was the bolts that hold the bracket to the leg. But there was no warning. Brake, brake, brake, oops, no brakes at all.
It's been 40-ish years since I rode a bike that didn't have a front brake. That bike was built that way though. My feet and hands had to quickly remember some new habits for the few miles (all in town) home.
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Drilled safety bolts on a street bike that's regularly maintained isn't something I'd ever have thought much about. Until about four or five weeks ago. Was 10 miles from home on my old FXR at the end of a 150 mile ride. Going through a roundabout suddenly had no front brakes. Front caliper fell off; just hanging there on the hydraulic line. It was a short but urgent "pucker" moment.
I'll bet that was :o an urgent moment for a clean pair of shorts ::)
Because of this bolt having siezed up I'm putting copper (anti seize) grease on the new bolt threads so I went with the wire bolts.
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Titanium bolts with safety wire, eh? Seems a bit overkill but that should eliminate the possibility of those bolts loosening up.
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I'll bet that was :o an urgent moment for a clean pair of shorts ::)
Because of this bolt having siezed up I'm putting copper (anti seize) grease on the new bolt threads so I went with the wire bolts.
Amen to that mate. Fortunately my right foot reacted more quickly than my head.
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Titanium bolts with safety wire, eh? Seems a bit overkill but that should eliminate the possibility of those bolts loosening up.
Yeah I know ;D,...when I was looking (I like the look of the bolt head) the price wasn't bad they're chrome they'll look good on the calipers they won't rust and like I mentioned I'll be anti seizing the threads "ie" why I went with the safety wire now there will be no concern of them seizing up again
Hans,..the method to my madness :D
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Never seize and proper torque :confused5:
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Never seize and proper torque :confused5:
^^ NOT good band names. Just sayin'.
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This is really the first time in over 20 years of Harley wrenching and riding that I've heard of these particular bolts either becoming frozen or loosening. Doesn't seem to be a regular problem, but obviously both do happen.
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This is really the first time in over 20 years of Harley wrenching and riding that I've heard of these particular bolts either becoming frozen or loosening. Doesn't seem to be a regular problem, but obviously both do happen.
I've had them seem worryingly tight; but they still broke loose. Never before had one choose to come apart though. It went back together with Loctite so let's hope the pads outlive me!
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Never seize and proper torque :confused5:
I'm using the Never Seize because the calipers are of a softer material then obviously the bolts are and there's definitely been
corrosion taking place(I believe it's called "Galvanic corrosion")
I had a good look at the threads on the caliper and the last threads in the hole that you can see from the back side of the caliper,..about 3 threads are not in the best of shape "pic show the end threads on the bolt,..damage caused by "Galvanic corrosion" in turn seized the bolt.
So it's a little dab will do me on the Never Seize and it's because I'm Never Seizing the threads I'm using safty wire bolts;D
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It is possible to use both anti-sieze and locktite on that bolt. Put a dab of anti-sieze on the end of the female threads and a couple drops of locktite blue in the middle of the body of the bolts and be done with it.
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My comment was geared towards proper torque yield is typically spec’d with clean dry threads.
Any foreign substance on the threads, grease, oil, anti seize, loctite etc has to be taken into consideration.
I'm using the Never Seize because the calipers are of a softer material then obviously the bolts are and there's definitely been
corrosion taking place(I believe it's called "Galvanic corrosion")
I had a good look at the threads on the caliper and the last threads in the hole that you can see from the back side of the caliper,..about 3 threads are not in the best of shape "pic show the end threads on the bolt,..damage caused by "Galvanic corrosion" in turn seized the bolt.
So it's a little dab will do me on the Never Seize and it's because I'm Never Seizing the threads I'm using safty wire bolts;D
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My comment was geared towards proper torque yield is typically spec’d with clean dry threads.
Any foreign substance on the threads, grease, oil, anti seize, loctite etc has to be taken into consideration.
Oh I agree on the torque yield values are set on none contaminated threads (dry). In this case the torque for the mounting fasteners are 28/38 ft-lb being dry.
I'll be putting a torque of 33ft-lb not really too worried about thread bending in the caliper holes at 33ft-lb with a shot of Never Seize and safety wire will ensure them not coming loose.
I just trying to reduce any further galvanic corrosion to take place I plan on having this bike for quite some time to come yet
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Cadmium plated bolts are used with aluminum because they are right next to each other on the galvanic chart so there's a low potential of voltage between the two.
Aluminum and titanium are about as far apart as you can get on the chart so there is a high voltage potential for galvanic corrosion. This combination is worse than aluminum against stainless steel.
Most titanium bolts should be coated as the aluminum is with anodizing most of the time. If while torquing, the threads break through the plating you can end up with corrosion. Might be what happened to your caliper bolt.
There are several different types of anti-sieze. One specifically for aluminum. The copper anti-sieze is designed for stainless steel and is highly conductive. You can look this up on the internet.
One of the advantages of blue Loctite like 243 is it also acts as a sealant. If you fully coat the threads and wipe off the excess after torquing you will have good retention and help prevent galvanic corrosion. Most of us grew up using 242 Loctite but when you use it on stainless and or aluminum, you should use their primer to ensure it cures. It also cures with heat so being so close to the rotors the heat from braking may do the trick.
You can read about this in their technical data sheets. I do not work for them but just work in an industry where we have to take great care in material selection, compatibility, and which chemicals we use.
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Good info :2vrolijk_21:
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One of the advantages of blue Loctite like 243 is it also acts as a sealant. If you fully coat the threads and wipe off the excess after torquing you will have good retention and help prevent galvanic corrosion. Most of us grew up using 242 Loctite but when you use it on stainless and or aluminum, you should use their primer to ensure it cures. It also cures with heat so being so close to the rotors the heat from braking may do the trick.
That's good info indeed, Jim. I've always used both 242 and 243 but thought the only advantage of 243 is where surfaces had oil contamination. I know better now! :-)
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I should clarify that both 242 and 243 can seal the threads. The problem is if you use enough to coat all the threads you have to be a little careful because a standard nut is only so thick whereas in the caliper the thread engagement may be much longer which may make it difficult to remove in the future. You're on your own if you use red Loctite.