Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[longlast]

   Believe the valve seals are not holding up as I'm having oil consumption.

I've been trying to find what size of v/v guide (if I need to replace them) are used  in the 07 ultra classic..is the v/v stem 5/16 or 7mm ? 

I know there was a head recall for the 07 and 08 touring but I don't know if my 07 was done I got it in 2010 and didn't know anything about the recall.
If the heads were changed would that explain the two  different guide sizes?

When I pull it down and find ill need new guides  i recall seeing something about upgrading the v/v guides with a longer guide.  if I recall that increased life spand of the guide (or something of that nature) any input on that maybe?

I've done a compression test and got 175 psi F (cold) and 165 psi R (cold)

The plugs are light gray.

So I'm hoping ive only got to replace the seals. If not what size removal and install tool would I need?  Cheers 🍻 All input appreciated

[Twolanerider]

No answers to any of the questions Pete (sorry about that) but after reading was curious about the oil use.  How much is going through it and when (or if) are you seeing smoke out the tailpipe?

[longlast]

No answers to any of the questions Pete (sorry about that) but after reading was curious about the oil use.  How much is going through it and when (or if) are you seeing smoke out the tailpipe?

Thanks Don,
To start I'm going to contact HD and see if my vin comes up on record that the heads were changed on this bike. The service bulletin (not sure if it'll open)

https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:7fa0a5c5-f577-3920-902c-a244f2f1e887

It used about half a litre in 750 miles. No smoke on start up, no smell of oil when stopping or sitting on idle No smoke.  I put a camra in the plug hole did notice the rear cylinder cross hatch was not as good as the front.

I'm going to have to get someone to follow me to see when it pushes blue.

I've done a fare bit of slow running  3rd,4th, and 5th. On back roads lugging may contribute to it .

I don't have or got very very little oil in the ccv can.

In a couple of days I'll do a leak down test ,.... pics of front cyl cross hatch,...second of rear cyl cross hatch , and pugs

[longlast]

Rear

[longlast]

Plugs

[Twolanerider]

Got it Pete.  While it's not an absolute guides or valve guide seals will often blow smoke worst at startup or on revving the engine.

Any chance it lost the approximately half quart (I'm stuck on Imperial since school is out [where I'm otherwise stuck on metric]) in the first 750 miles right after an oil change AND it was filled to the full mark?  It's not uncommon for these engines to have a "happy place" that's about a half quart low.  In any case the leak down test will tell you more.  That is the far more actionable information so good luck on finding something to guide what you'll need to do. 

[vetteman170]

Valve seals are the problem,had same issue on a 2005 TC

[longlast]

Leak Down Tester arrived today.

Tested the front and rear cylinders three times.  Each test reading held at 10% leak down and no higher on each test. The test was done with the motor cold.

I tend to agree with ,Vetteman,  it's looking like v/v seals.

Next thing is to remove the heads.

[Finster101]

I would enjoy what is left of my riding season if I were you.  Monitor the oil level and if you decide to do the guides and seals wait for the winter.  I am thinking in your location it isn't that far off.  A couple of months Maybe?  It will also give you a chence to see if it is the "happy level" situation.

[johnsachs]

If you have never replaced guides before, be careful. It's NOT a job for the inexperienced. You can do MAJOR damage removing, and also installing valve guides. . Longer guides?    Never heard of doing such a thing. Also, the MoCo black 5/16" viton seals, (18067-08) are the best in the business, and are the standard seals on the CVO engines.
If your bike is NOT a CVO, you have valves with 7 mm stems. They use "hat style" seals, which act as the valve spring seat also. Orange or teal color seals are the seals to use as replacements on them.
John

[longlast]

If you have never replaced guides before, be careful. It's NOT a job for the inexperienced. You can do MAJOR damage removing, and also installing valve guides. . Longer guides?    Never heard of doing such a thing. Also, the MoCo black 5/16" viton seals, (18067-08) are the best in the business, and are the standard seals on the CVO engines.
If your bike is NOT a CVO, you have valves with 7 mm stems. They use "hat style" seals, which act as the valve spring seat also. Orange or teal color seals are the seals to use as replacements on them.
John

Thanks John,  it is a CVO 2007 Ultra classic.  This link is the 2008 upgrade for all CVO valve guides (longer)

https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:08d34a43-9a05-3375-abdf-c9833784517f

In the pic are the seals I've got not sure about the little metal ones.

I plan on getting this oil issue sorted out ASAP . I'm planning on riding up country to Scotland (don't want oil concerns on my mind)

Once the heads are off I'll know if the guides need attention.  I've spoken to a fella has a HD head rebuild shop he charges 120. 00 per head overhaul.
May not need guides then I'll do the seals.
According to the leak down test valves and rings are within limits.   Cheers 🍻

[trippy]

Hi Pete,
How you doing, just a note of caution, Twin cams specifically  07`s on-wards, can have an issue of carbonizing , even to the point of crumbling, of the exhaust valve guides, do to the lean running conditions and high temps, had mine changed out for bronze guides, just a thought, ride safe mate.

[johnsachs]

Your picture of the seal on the right, is a standard seal for 7 mm equipped valves used on the later Harley Davidson standard NON-CVO heads. They WON'T work on CVO guides.  The part # I listed, 18067-08 is for  CVO  heads with 5/16" valve stems, and stock factory CVO valve guides. Your picture on the left is also for a 5/16" valve, with .420" guide tops. NO WHERE as good as the part # I listed, and won't fit a CVO guide top. It's offered also, with a .530" guide top, for heads so equipped.
John

[longlast]

Hi Pete,
How you doing, just a note of caution, Twin cams specifically  07`s on-wards, can have an issue of carbonizing , even to the point of crumbling, of the exhaust valve guides, do to the lean running conditions and high temps, had mine changed out for bronze guides, just a thought, ride safe mate.

Hi Mark,  got no complaints other then this issue,  hope things are good at your end.
On Saturday I rode an 1 hour and a half  to the fella I'm taking the heads too, he's Alex at (Fast Lane Head Works) Lincolnshire, He's a one man show and he's  got a nice setup. We had a good chat and he said he'll be using bronze guides in the heads.

I stumbled across a Service Bulletin covering the replacement of 07 and 08 CVO heads. I'll be checking tomorrow with HD to see if there's any record of mine being done in the first 6k of me owning the bike. I do know that this  motor has been handled within its first 6k miles
Link of the Bulletin,...   may have already posted

https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:c3ce555b-9c7e-3599-a1ad-8889873eeffa

[longlast]

Your picture of the seal on the right, is a standard seal for 7 mm equipped valves used on the later Harley Davidson standard NON-CVO heads. They WON'T work on CVO guides.  The part # I listed, 18067-08 is for  CVO  heads with 5/16" valve stems, and stock factory CVO valve guides. Your picture on the left is also for a 5/16" valve, with .420" guide tops. NO WHERE as good as the part # I listed, and won't fit a CVO guide top. It's offered also, with a .530" guide top, for heads so equipped.
John

Thanks John,  I showed the fella I'm having do the heads and he said exactly what you have said.  Those seals came in a gasket kit labelled for a  07 ultra CVO .   

[longlast]

A bit of new input I found out today.  Both heads had been changed through the HD Service Bulletin

Would anyone know what was changed with the heads?

[longlast]

Could anyone tell me (can't  seem to find what I need) what the min and max valve stem to valve guide clearance is  on the 110 07 ultra classic.

Cheers 

[johnsachs]

I rarely ever use stock guides. BRONZE guides, either AV&V or Kibblewhite, go into 99 % of the heads I work on. Intake: I hone the I.D. to + .001" .Exhaust: I hone to + .002". Check valve stem diameter, as some brands differ from others.
John

[longlast]

I found the Q. On clearances

All the guides to v/v stems clearances are within spec's.

There's one exhaust seat that I believe was not installed correctly.  The seat is shallow on one side of it  the v/v stem and guide are in spec's max clearance on exhaust is 0.0762mm / 0.003"  I'm at 0.0237mm / 0.002" .
The seats "but the tne exhaust "  all lapped in on the money to the valves,..right in the middle of the 45° valve angle

Now I need to replace the exhaust seat.  Any suggestions on going about removing the seat from the head without involving a machine shop.
I've on order some freeze in a spray can,  (step down from liquid nitrogen)  see if I can shrink it out?

Not going there with the (run a weld bead around the seat) idea
Do new seats come already at the 45° ,...any one know

[longlast]

Little clean up

[johnsachs]

The seat inserts I use have NO angles on them. Some I weld out,  and others I machine out. 
John

[longlast]

The seat inserts I use have NO angles on them. Some I weld out,  and others I machine out. 
John

Thanks John,
                            I had the v/vs faced at a machine shop (45°) intake and exhaust they still have a good margin left on them especially the intake  v/v. Then after lapping  3 were showing good seating one exhaust (in the pic) was only making contact 3/4 s of the v/v face.

Anyway I took the heads to a fella that's going to cut out the exhaust seat insert a new seat (and like you said the seat's inserts are blank) then face it . He did a vacuum test on the ones I had lapped they were in the medium range so he's going to seat all the v/vs to 100% vacuum seal.

That will be the heads issue sorted.   Should have them back in a couple/ few days.

Cheers for ll the input, has helped a lot. 

[johnsachs]

Have your guy cut the 3 stock seats to get rid of the factory PROUD 45 degree angle on the stock seat inserts. He should also shoot for equal installed heights, on all the valves so the chambers should CC the same .  FYI - Average 110" CVO factory chamber volume is 95 cc. 
John 

[longlast]

Have your guy cut the 3 stock seats to get rid of the factory PROUD 45 degree angle on the stock seat inserts. He should also shoot for equal installed heights, on all the valves so the chambers should CC the same .  FYI - Average 110" CVO factory chamber volume is 95 cc. 
John

Alex Emailed me saying the heads  are done and he did the remaining seats and are now all at 100% vacuum. (Not sure if he cut or just lapped the other  seats)

I'm seeing him on Thursday I'll  check with him on the v/v heights then.

   Cheers  for the info John, 

[longlast]

           On another note,......

     I got this bike in 2010  its only by doing these heads I've  done some research on them cause thing weren't adding up with info I've got on the 07 ultra classic. 
I called my HD service I gave them the vin number to check on anything that had been done to the bike.,They came back to me and said it had a recall for the rear head gasket replacement.  Then HD came out with a (customers choice)  service bulletin to  replace the 110 1800cc at no expense to the customer if they so which too. They said the head were changed  in Wales (the shop has since closed) the work was done  on the 15th Dec 2009.

So these are not the original head.

Also at the same time the other owner had the pistons changed (WHY) anyone's guess.   They put in smaller ring size pistons.

I got 1.2, 1.2, 2.5,mm 0.47, 0.47, 0.98 for replacement rings for my 07 110 1800cc touring  (Hastings Rings)

But what's in there are 1.09, 1.09, 3.mm =  043, 043, 0.118 rings  making them a special order.

The good news is the cylinders are in good shape and there's no (zero)  scuff marks at all on the pistons from  cylinder wall contact.

[longlast]

    Another issue,..

I removed the pistons for cleaning and for easier ring install and found the front wrist pin bush had turned in the rod it's a fit on the pin. I was able to remove it by hand ✋️ the rear is tight in the rod also a good fit on the pin.

Q. Is there a tool for removing/installing these wrist pin bushings without having to remove the rods and using a press?

Q 2. I've tried to find these 110 motor bushings in HD catalog but all I'm seeing are the tubular type,...mine are bevelled.

Would anyone know the part number for these bushings? 

[longlast]

Got wrist pin bushings machined up .

Glade I caught theses bushings when I did.

As the bushings are tapered when they turn in the conrod bore the wider part of the brushing  will turn till it contacts the narrow part of the piston  then will prevent the piston from rocking on the wrist pin as it travels up and down .

Once the bush is in the conrod then I will shape it to the rod .

[longlast]

.

[longlast]

It took a while but back up and rolling again. 

[HD Street Performance]

Clever work. Most would have taken the motor out and have the crank fixed by others. In the UK no clue who. A lot of times I change the rods to the older full compliment versions which I have take-offs and rebalance the crank for those. Best of luck.

[longlast]

Clever work. Most would have taken the motor out and have the crank fixed by others. In the UK no clue who. A lot of times I change the rods to the older full compliment versions which I have take-offs and rebalance the crank for those. Best of luck.

Cheers it took a bit of doing but it all worked out.

This is the new bushings cut and fitted in the rods

Motor's running smoothly  1,300 miles on it now no issues