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[jae30001]

Some Info before the Marelli / Carb to Delphi Swap

Alright.. I will just jump straight into it. I have a 2001 Road king. full SE kit. When i purchased it, I made the mistake thinking it was a CVO.. Unfortunately not. But it is defiantly a great bike Either way.  I just can't stand the Crude Magneti Marelli System.
I have a background of tuning most of my vehicles, and when you notice or feel small changes, the first thing i like to check is the Data Logs. With a marelli you get zero feedback.  It seems to be the 'Poke and Pray' Method.  So, it's time for a Delphi Swap. After I complete the Delphi swap, I will then be doing a Road Glide Conversion. That will Come after the Delphi Swap. Maybe i will keep it all in this thread. Unsure yet.

Also. I am in the middle of a Flip house. And unfortunately no garage. It will soon be on the market, and maybe ill get my garage then . So if you see...... "Rigged" "Mickey Mouse" looking photos.. please Concede and Proceed.   


With the magneti marelli.. We have 3 options really.. 1x Carb. 2x. Complete Custom like a megasquirt. or 3x. Do what harley did, upgrade the bike to a delphi.
In my opinion the best option is to do what harley did, Upgrade to the Delphi system. Having a 3D View of the engine vs 2D is huge. I also want o2 sensor control. Open loop / Closed Loop.
I thought about a ThunderMax.. However it seems they will soon be not supported and i didnt wanna go down that road. Plus i want Open Closed loop functions. and i'm sure other reasons I cant think of right now
I am hoping this will be a great tech article for anyone that wants to switch from a carb to EFI. Or Marelli to Delphi.  Not having to mess with Jet kits and being able to hit any elevation while riding a vintage is a big plus.

Now I am in no way an expert, and i want to say all the credit of the Magneti Marelli or Carb To Delphi Swap, Goes To Don. ( TWOLANERIDER) Without him, this would never have happened.  This will be a snapshot of the swap, so you will see many questions along the way. I will update the main thread at the end.



/*/*/*/*/*/*/*

Onto the real fun, The Delphi Swap:

/*/*/*/*/*/*/*

First thing's First. The parts list:

PARTS LIST:

2002-2005 Throttle Body
2004-2005 Main/Engine Wire Harness - 70233-04A
( If you have a front fairing you'll also need the interconnect harness ): 70232-04 if Electra Glide. - 70274-04 if Road Glide.
04-05 ECM(Engine Computer ): ( MAKE SURE YOU ORDER THE CORRECT ECM! )
04-05 Speedo Sensor: - 74430-00D
04-05 Delphi Ignition Coil: - 31743-01
04-05 Delphi Coil Bracket - 70348-02
04-05 Crank Pos Sensor : - 32707-01C
04+ Speedometer : - 67410-04A
04-05 EFI External Fuel LIne: - 62900-01D
04-05 EFI Fuel Check Valve Tube :- 62228-03
04-05 ECM Bracket: - 70348-02
04-05 Battery Tray: - 66281-02A
04-06 Complete Fuel Pump Unit : - 75127-06
** Depending on your situation, you may need a new Air Filter and Mount.

Some Information about TSM or TSSM ( Turn Signal Security Module )
*** If you have Key Fobs.. Or you want Security. You have.. a few options.. try to follow along.  If you Order a new TSSM & ECM Combo Already married.  You are set, just program your keys and your done.  If you want to only order a ECM, and marry your ECM and TSSM, you must follow the procedures.  Ill try to find a link.   
**** Now.. If you don't care about security. Just order a regular TSM and ECM. no marriage process, and no key fobs.

( ..:: NOTES ::.. )

I believe that is the full list, i will update it if needed, it's getting pretty late and the beers are getting few, must mean bed time is near.
If you plan to swap to a 2006 or 2007, all the parts must match that exact year. And a few more steps come into play.
There is also an option to upgrade the Charging system to the 3 phase system.
The Delphi ignition coil will need a custom fabbed bracket or some type of mounting ( you can use the newer bracket if you have it ).
You will also need to mount the insides of the side panels, ( ECM, Fuse boxes, etc ).  It's important for these items to  be properly secured, as close to factory as possible.

Also, Their may be shortcuts depending on your year, However. this swap will give you the full Data system between the harness, Speedo, TSSM, ECM, etc. Much  better to do the complete correct swap.
The main goal here, is to avoid a frankenstein. 

( THE BUILD ):

First.. we had to get all the orders in.. eBay and amazon single handed, I received all my parts from. Took about 2 weeks of scouring. I'm not sure what happened to the 02-05 throttle bodies recently, but when i first started this project, i was deciding to go the 06 route.. and once a decided to land back to the 02-05.. all the throttle bodies listed on ebay were GONE. Yes.. i seen 10+ listed for as little as $30.. and now.. NONE. occasionally i will see that one crazy person show up with the $500 Throttle body.. of course that is a pass..  Mostly patience.. and you'll score the parts. unless you have a local harley salvage yard. that would be great to get a donor bike.

In total , i think i have spent $350 without the Fuel pump. I couldn't score one, so i paid the tax fee of $250. Brining my personal total to $600.

Picked up a TTS tuner, to tune the bike once complete..  I am not %100 sure how to resize these photos.. to make them smaller and clickable..  maybe i will figure it out and edit this.










​​​​​​​

[jae30001]

Parts Incoming 
Parts starting to roll in.  O fcouse filling up the kitchen and wife asking questions!

[jae30001]

I am Cleaning up and gasket matching to heads.  Some call this porting.  Note all the black area, that is what can be removed.  it is basically a wall that the air is hitting.

[jae30001]

Here is a photo of the black area removed.  I will still need to blend both sides, and polish the exhaust side.

[jae30001]

Yesterday, I removed some of the basic items from the bike.  I ordered a set of 2006 Heads, and began cleaning them up.  Gasket matching the ports basic stuff.  as listed above.

Today, The wife helped.  We got the bike down to the basics, removed the old wiring harness completely, and started to route the new harness to its living place.  Once its through the battery tray, and you get the Y in place under the tank, it seems to be home free.
The Cam position sensor gets cut, and left out as harley did away with it. 

Tomorrow will be connecting the Coil, CPS, and getting the new fuel tank guts put in!

Also for tomorrow Figuring out how to handle photos on here!

[jae30001]

Here is a shot of taking apart the fuel tank, getting ready to install the new fuel assembly.  Notice its getting dark, and my shaggy outside setup is not suite for it!

[jae30001]

Here is a photo of the marelli harness removed. Just missing the Throttle body to go with it.   Soon will be on ebay!

[jae30001]

Here is a little update on how the heads are looking

[Twolanerider]

When mentioning the harnesses in the parts list above the main harness for Road King is different than the main harness that would be needed for a Road Glide or Electra Glide.

And......

And I don't want to be a buzz kill here; but how badly in that tank lining delaminating?

[jae30001]

you caught that too!.  I will empty the tank and look into it further tomorrow.  is that common?  how bad is "too bad"?

[jae30001]

while I have it apart.  figured a great time to knock out the handle bar bushings.   they were definitely cooked.

[jae30001]

Something Don pointed out that's extremely important.   after the 2001 era Harley ditched the old school "Circuit Breaker".  Shown in the photo.  new style uses the large 40amp fuse. not pictured 

[jae30001]

when you get a speedometer. make sure you get the lock ring included.  as the older speedo is thicker

[jae30001]

Throttle Body is out!  adjustment on the new throttle body will definitely be needed.  wot gets me about %75

[jae30001]

s&s Cam Plate.  Andrews gears and chain.

[jae30001]

baker 6 speed

[jae30001]

sorry for the bad photo.  roller rockers.

[dayne66]

This thread is bookmarked as I hope to find a '99 SE RG to put collector plates on and drive all year.


Thanks!

[jae30001]

okay if you are able to get the coil with a bracket.  I found if you slightly vend the open end of the bracket inwardm it's able to fit in between the tank mounts.  now we will find out later if this fitment works good or not

[jae30001]

throttle body in place.  connections in place.  still need to tuck the harness after I finish

[jae30001]

you can see the new crank position sensor in place.  the old harness uses a 3ft long position sensor wire.  the new harness has the length in the harness side. so the sensor only has a 6" wire with connector.

sensor installed.  old one being removed

[jae30001]

here is the routing of the new harness crank sensor wire.  old one will be removed.

[jae30001]

some advice for your guys doing this.. try and have an empty fuel tank.  don't be silly like me.. and "Fill R' Up".  handling that sucked. haha . 

[jae30001]

also.  remember if you previously has this rig running.. you will have positive pressure in the fuel feed line. as it uses one way valves.

be careful if you plan to cut this line pictured

[jae30001]

the fuel connection from the pump assembly will land here.

you'll be replacing the lines with your new setup

[jae30001]

I made a short mistake on the part number for the intake fuel line.  from what I just learned from Don.  Harley had 2 sizes.  and 00-02 have the smaller of the two.  I'll try to edit the main post for updated part I for ation.


when removing the fuel pump assembly and then installing the new assembly with the new fuel line, be careful because this pump goes in ONE WAY. if you think Jinga is tough. you'll struggle here 

once you get her aligned sideways upside  down and the. in place. it's a breeze. .

new pump assembly installed.   the second quick connect fittings. you may remove and install a plug.  I will add the part number to the main thread. Don has it. thanks again Don!!!!!!

[jae30001]

also a great tip from Don.  very good practice to replace the fuel assembly screws with new screws.  only a few bucks.  they have seals on each screw.  really worth it. 

[jae30001]

OKay so remember, doing this swap The circuit breaker located within the battery box gets Deleted.  It will not be used anymore.  The Wire Circled in BLUE goes to your regulator ( Your Regulator has two wires GROUND AND +), the + will need spliced together to the regulator wire from the harness. Its a red wire with a black round connector. Both wires have the same size wire gauge. The 2nd wire from the regulator goes to ground, pictured circled in the bottom yellow circle.   The wire in GREEN will go to your positive terminal (I believe. DON correct me if i'm wrong).    I will attach a finished Photo tomorrow.

[jae30001]

This is pretty much the Entire Magneti Marelli System.  Everything that makes the entire system up. and everything you will be swapping out if you did the project.  This might be easier to get a perspective of what's involved.

[jae30001]

Cant remember if i posted this.  Try and order a Speedo with a Bracket.  As you can see the older and generation newer styles are different.  The older version is much thicker. as seen here

[jae30001]

Installing the new speedo into a Road King is a breeze.  Pop it from the bracket and your home free.  Obviously other Models will be different as you will be working inside the Fairing.  I do use a fairing currently, but only for the radio and speakers.

[jae30001]

I think i forgot to add this photo.  This shows how the throttle cables get connected to the new throttle body.  Dont forget to adjust it.

[jae30001]

These are the Fuel tank mounting screw Gaskets.    Notice the old one verses the new ones in my hand.  It's only $10 for the screw set, and better to replace them while you are in there.

[jae30001]

In my situation, I ordered the 2006 year Fuel pump, as i was going to go the 2006 route ( All parts must be from 2006 when using a 06, 07, or 08 model ).  The 08 also requires handle bar wire harness to be replaced, among other things.  Since i really got held up on the 06 harness, i ended up going 2005.  Considering i already purchased the 2006 Fuel pump, I had the convert the connector to match the 05 to 06 pump. 

*Notice the connector on the top, is from the previous years. 

[jae30001]

Putting everything basic back together, routing and mounting everything in place.

[jae30001]

I ran out of single connectors, so i used this for the regulator wire.  Soldered and Shrink wrapped on both ends.  it will be covered with wire loom.  This is the Red regulator wire running from the regulator to the battery area, that you wire into the new harness.

[jae30001]

After finishing the build ( minus side covers and touring pack ). I had a crank no start.  Boy was that fun. Thank you @TwoLaneRider for guiding me to the fix!

[jae30001]

Turned out to be something silly on my part.  I ordered a "2006 Touring ECM" From ebay.  Turns out.. the ECM was from a VROD!..  After I ordered a new ECM and TSSM Combo ( Already Married ).  She fired right up.     

.....Well except for the  issue of mixing up the spark plug wires!     

Make sure you get those right too! oh, and make sure you order the correct ECM!      

[jae30001]

I also want to ad.

 If you have Key Fobs for security your bike has a TSSM.  And if you don't order an ECM TSSM married Combo, you will have to marry your TSSM ( Turn SIgnal Security Module ) to your new ECM.  ( your keys will stay programmed to the TSSM )

However, if you order a new ECM and TSSM Combo.. you will need to program your FOBS to the new TSSM.   

OR..

you can skip the Keyfobs.. and the security and just get a TSM module, rather than a TSSM.   

** Photo is the TSSM

[jae30001]

Something i forgot to ad to the main post.. and unfortunately i am not able to edit the post!  You will need to figure something out for the air intake depending which one you have.  If you already have a Filter you could just order a back plate from ebay for a few bucks.  I just ordered the Arlen Ness Big Sucker Air cleaner Kit. 

[jae30001]

Everything is going back together smooth!  Once i have her fully set back up, i will start the tuning process.  Although i must say she already Run, Starts, and Feels better!!    ( Yes i drove with no seat, really touched my inner... Iron Butt... )

[jae30001]

Has anyone else done this project?  Anything fun to add?   Any questions? THanks.

[Twolanerider]

Jason, so glad to see you have the bike running.  That's a significant change you've made.  You can now tune her to far more engine capability than the old Marelli system could have ever reached and you don't have worry about obsolete Marelli parts.  You could have just hung a carburetor on it but, like you, I like the FI and you certainly learned a hell of a lot more about your bike.  Well done Bro!

[Twolanerider]

Man, seeing pics of your bike is a blast from the past for me too.  I had a 2000 that was the same bike.  Had it until late 2004 when I got the red 05 SEEG.  I always really loved the looks of leather bags on the RK Classics.

[jae30001]

Jason, so glad to see you have the bike running.  That's a significant change you've made.  You can now tune her to far more engine capability than the old Marelli system could have ever reached and you don't have worry about obsolete Marelli parts.  You could have just hung a carburetor on it but, like you, I like the FI and you certainly learned a hell of a lot more about your bike.  Well done Bro!

Thanks man, and ultimately thanks to your help!    Your absolutely right and it's "falling in love with the bike all over again"!  That was a massive learning curve, and extremely fun.  There's just something about Tuning your own FI system that brings clarity to the whole bike. 

[jae30001]

Got the Bungs welded onto the exhaust.  Twinscan and TTS bothi installed.  ( Both USB's are in the saddle bag, I can just pop the side cover to swap connections, I have thought about using a Y splitter To leave both connected at once, not sure if that would cause disruptions ). Got the O2s Ordered, and have the widebands installed, Going to try and figure out how to scan with Twinscan, and program with TTS.  I have been trying to find the correct Excel Sheets, unfortunately none of them are correct! the cells are off 14x21.

[jae30001]

o2 Switching Sensors are in.  Along with wiring and pin Sensors.  Time to add Narrowband Switching SEnsors onto the bike, and flash a newer file with o2s

[Twolanerider]

This all has the odor of progress .

[jae30001]

The bike as it sits.. it runs awesome! Generally speaking, i still need to dial in the tune.  it was extremely lean, i dialed that in manually.. Which.. im not sure why as the o2 sensors came in and the bike needs flashed again haha.... as they say idle hands are the devils hands. 

So. I started to build the Wiring harness for the o2 sensors.  Now i must say, you can use the default connector that comes with the o2 sensor, and just find a male end.. But honestly.. i have used those and they are junk when it comes to weather and abuse.  Delphi connectors are always the way to go.  You can grab them from amazon.

[jae30001]

Here is the old connector in the background.  also i prefer to get the delphi connectors with the barrel compression pins.

[jae30001]

If you need to disassemble a connector, there are plastic stoppers inside, simply push them down, to release the crimped wire.

[jae30001]

Accessory harness .  I ordered 2 pin and 4. 

[jae30001]

Here is my finished harness for the oxygen sensors.  I just need to installed them on the bike, and route the wiring.  And ofcourse, open the PCM harness up, and stick the pin in.

[jae30001]

Just a reminder.. If you do Not want to go with adding oxygen sensors ( o2 ), all you need is a tune and your done.  Otherwise, continue on

[Twolanerider]

Really good to see all the continuing progress.  When you get done you're going to have the newest 2001 Road King there is!

[jae30001]

Really good to see all the continuing progress.  When you get done you're going to have the newest 2001 Road King there is!

haha thanks man.  I have been searching everywhere for those ECM pins.. Finally decided to call the local Harley dealer that never has anything other than $200 brakes.. andd Bingo  they had 8x Terminals in stock.  Going to head there grab those, and get these o2s installed with a flash and start tuning.. once again lol.   

[Twolanerider]

And it sooooooooooooo sucks to have to stop when you're in the zone and making progress just becuase you don't have some STOOOPID wire terminal.  I've bought a few old random junk harnesses for cheap over the years just so I can have stuff to cut up when it might be convenient.  Cause there ain't no damned parts store open at 2am on a Saturday morning when you're a few beers in AND in a zone.

[jae30001]

EXactly!!!!  I remember about 10-15 years ago, the local CarQuest was open 247.   Only one around with hours like that.  Now your lucky if they are open until 7.  With this dang covid, even worse!.


Good News. Landed the wire terminals. Got her wired up   

 

[jae30001]

Wired up a delphi connector with the correct ECM pins on the end.  ( Give yourself more space in-between the sheathing than i did.  It got pretty tight.

[jae30001]

Here is a shot of the connector rear. Notice those little clips on the outside, you'll have to simply pop those off. and cut the zip tie. Then your home free.
There are little plugs blocking the holes you need.
TERMINAL #8 == FRONT o2 SENSOR WIRE.
TERMINAL #23 == REAR o2 SENSOR WIRE
TERMINAL #26 = Sensor Ground wire ( this may have a wire just splice into it )

[jae30001]

Notice in this photo, i removed that clear plastic cover with a screw driver. This made pulling the pins through the connector easier. I HIGHLY recommend 20 AWG wire for this connection. My 18 was fat and JUST FIT.

[jae30001]

As i mentioned terminal #26 the ground was already taken,,, so i spliced into it.

[jae30001]

Connector closed up
You can see the clear cover easy in this photo.  I used shrink wrap, sheathing... and tape. oh. and zipties.

[jae30001]

Dont forget anti seize on those threads!

[jae30001]

Front o2 wire harness in its home spot.

[jae30001]

Zip Tie and she looks clean

[jae30001]

And here we have the finished product. ( as far as o2 sensors installed and pinned to the ECM )

o2 sensors are installed! ( Please excuse the PCM and the mess under the right side cover), i have been trying to fabricate a perfect fitting peice of metal, but she keeps coming out wrong, as i keep adding things. I will update when i finish it.

Anyways, here she is. ready for a tune!

[jae30001]

Now.. as for the tuning.. TTS manual stated.. "you need a 176 Calibration file".  After staring at that sentence for hours, and searching around.. it seems ANY 176 file will work.. which covers multiple bikes from many years.. say.. 2006-2009.. actually it may run 2006-2011 for the safe range, Just do not quote me on that.  I found a suitable file from the 2007 year category from the TTS library. 

Thing to keep in mind.. and make sure you change. "ECM Constants"  Displacement size, injector size, etc.  I also copied over every table from my previous tune as a starting point.  And this my friends.. gave me a MAP to start out with.

I will report back, after i get a few logs, and make a few changes.

[Twolanerider]

Dont forget anti seize on those threads!

And read the bottle on the anti-seize that's used.  Some versions are not appropriate for the sensors.

[jae30001]

*** Some more info on the tuning part ****
I will upload the original TUNE file, and my tuned/Changed file just incase it is able to help anyone. 

     Being the narrow bands can only measure that "narrow band" of 14.1-15.  I feel its better to dial the entire VE table in, using the "band" the sensors are able to measure  (14.67).    So to get a good tune:  I set the entire AFR table to 14.6, Tuned the entire VE table until i got within %5.  Then Smoothed it.  Then set the AFR table back to where i wanted it ( in your case stock ).  That should pretty much get you exactly where you want.  If you follow this method, don't forget to zero out any adders or decel tables.

[jae30001]

So i was tuning, and could not figure out the wild readings.. until i realized the o2 sensors were installed backwards! Yep.. it happens  ..  Put the front to the front, rear to the rear, and she has been running amazing.  I have been using vtune for about 500 miles now.  And still dialing her in.

She feels like a whole new bike.  Extremely quicker, and sounds very healthy.    I don't get that lean feeling at higher RPMs, or the RICH feelings at low rpm climbs.  I am very happy with the outcome of the swap.  Highly recommend it to anyone with a carb or marelli.

[Twolanerider]

So i was tuning, and could not figure out the wild readings.. until i realized the o2 sensors were installed backwards! Yep.. it happens  ..  Put the front to the front, rear to the rear, and she has been running amazing.  I have been using vtune for about 500 miles now.  And still dialing her in.

She feels like a whole new bike.  Extremely quicker, and sounds very healthy.    I don't get that lean feeling at higher RPMs, or the RICH feelings at low rpm climbs.  I am very happy with the outcome of the swap.  Highly recommend it to anyone with a carb or marelli.

Ooops  .

I don't think that would compensate for having the plug wires on backwards!

Now you're making great progress.  If you're finding/feeling more in the tune than you ever did before I still bet with all you described already in that engine that it was built more than the old Marelli ECM could be tuned for.  You may finally be dialing what the engine can actually do.