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[Twolanerider]

Was ask question in PM and have no clue as to the answer.  Found it interesting so making it a public question.

Can a Power Commander V be used on pre-electronic throttle bikes?  And, if so, does its autotuning function require a change of the o2 sensors to wide band sensors?  Does the PC V have a new map format or will maps from a PC III work?

I could not find the thread but remember someone writing awhile back that PC V units could/were being used on older bikes.  I've never had one of the units in hand though so have no first hand data with which to answer the question.  A call to Dyna Tech earned only a response like "whatever it says on the website."

[Boatman]

Don-

I don't know the answer but Jamie at www.fuelmotousa.com   would know and is knowledgeable.


 

[Twolanerider]

Don-

I don't know the answer but Jamie at www.fuelmotousa.com   would know and is knowledgeable.


 

Thanks Bob.  I tried to call the dyno guru who is such a great Power Commander resource here locally but he's away a bit.  Not worth bugging anyone while travelling for.

Curiosity is annoying sometimes.  Got asked.  Didn't know.  Then realized it was intersting enough to find out anyway .

[Twolanerider]

That worked Bob.  Assuming FuelMoto is correct (and no reason to believe they're not) it's an almost direct swap.

Was told the PC V will directly replace the PC III.  ECM connections are the same so it's just unplug one and plug in the new one.  It would use wide band sensors for its autotuning function.

If anyone gets more interested FuelMoto said their costs for the units were $300 each for the PC V and the autotuning kit (which includes the sensors).

Only thing reported to be not a direct swap was the map.  Map formats different for PC III and PC V.  He did say the fields within the maps were comparable though.  So one could manually copy the data from the cells of one map to the cells of the other.  Wouldn't make a difference if you were starting from scratch.  But if you had a PC III map that was good for your bike it would be a better starting point.

Thanks Bob.  My curiosity for the day is satisfied. 

[Boatman]

Those folks have a fine reputation for supplying a map for your situation.  On the 09 FLHX, the PCV and their map works great with the SERG mufflers with 1.75" baffles and their air cleaner.   All I did was install the parts, unhook the O2 sensors and plug in the PC-V..  The hardest part was finding a place to stuff the PC-V wiring and plug.

Glad they were able to help you and a friend out.

[CR]

Don't forget to fork out the extra 300 for the autotune, will spare you all those dyno-hours in the future and you get to play with your bike's AFR's on your laptop. In the end (accepting the trims) it will provide you with the best map ever! (just installed it myself and for the moment it looks like the best thing since sliced bread, at least much better than Thundermax and SERT because you get PCV simplicity with sophisticated wide band sensors)

[Twolanerider]

Those folks have a fine reputation for supplying a map for your situation.  On the 09 FLHX, the PCV and their map works great with the SERG mufflers with 1.75" baffles and their air cleaner.   All I did was install the parts, unhook the O2 sensors and plug in the PC-V..  The hardest part was finding a place to stuff the PC-V wiring and plug.

Glad they were able to help you and a friend out.

It was a quick and productive five minutes on the phone.  He was quick and specific with an answer to any question I thought of. 

Turns out that a map conversion from the PC III to a PC 5 is a no-brain matter also.  Just for grins downloaded the PC 5 softway from DynoJet's website.  Turns out all the cells in the map are laid out the same way in each software.  So it's just a cut and paste from one program to the other.  The PC V had a column (or two) the PC III didn't have.  But it was small increments.  Nothing worse than averaging between the adjacent columns to fill in the blanks.  Took about two minutes to create a PC V map from a PC III map.

I've got no need for the PC V information or software.  Now I just really hope getting interested in the topic today does not haunt me long enough that I waste spend the $$$ to upgrade to an autotuning version to replace the perfectly functional PC III on the red bike.

[Twolanerider]

Don't forget to fork out the extra 300 for the autotune, will spare you all those dyno-hours in the future and you get to play with your bike's AFR's on your laptop. In the end (accepting the trims) it will provide you with the best map ever! (just installed it myself and for the moment it looks like the best thing since sliced bread, at least much better than Thundermax and SERT because you get PCV simplicity with sophisticated wide band sensors)

Did see today that the simplicity of the Power Commander's legacy packages is continued in the PC V software.  And that's nice; for most things.  Little dinks to timing or fuel couldn't be much simpler.  Sometimes, however, a little more than "simple" is actually a good thing.

Don't get me wrong.  I'm not knocking the Power Commander.  I'm a user and a fan.  But while I think Zippers as a company has some real issues (and an attitude that rates up there with scrotal mold) the controls and diagnistoc abilities available in their Thundermax software are nice if you have need of them.

[Fired00d]

It was a quick and productive five minutes on the phone.  He was quick and specific with an answer to any question I thought of. 

Turns out that a map conversion from the PC III to a PC 5 is a no-brain matter also.  Just for grins downloaded the PC 5 softway from DynoJet's website.  Turns out all the cells in the map are laid out the same way in each software.  So it's just a cut and paste from one program to the other.  The PC V had a column (or two) the PC III didn't have.  But it was small increments.  Nothing worse than averaging between the adjacent columns to fill in the blanks.  Took about two minutes to create a PC V map from a PC III map.

I've got no need for the PC V information or software.  Now I just really hope getting interested in the topic today does not haunt me long enough that I waste spend the $$$ to upgrade to an autotuning version to replace the perfectly functional PC III on the red bike.

Here let me help you out..... remember Z-I-P-P-E-R-S...... not saying there is any comparison between the two and their autotune features.... just that you've been down that "autotune" road before.


Now, how's that for helping you "not" spend any $$$

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Here let me help you out..... remember Z-I-P-P-E-R-S...... not saying there is any comparison between the two and their autotune features.... just that you've been down that "autotune" road before.


Now, how's that for helping you "not" spend any $$$

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

I know Gary.  The company was less fun to deal with than a root canal during a kidney stone.  As much as I (deservedly) knocked their efforts, the quality of the machining they provided, the quality of their efforts and honesty in providing and describing it and (less deservedly) a good portion of the nature of the consanguineous relationships of their parental units the Thundermax itself was something that did seem to have promise.

Granted, the hardware they provided me was so poorly matched that nothing was going to tune it.  It was an abortion waiting for a place to happen before it was birthed from its cardboard boxes.  The company's arrogant and apelike efforts at support were more directed at hiding their mistakes than making the software and ECM manage an unmanageable hardware package.  But with a little more maturity and the all important good basemap the Thundermax package looked to have some real promise.

[Fired00d]

....  But with a little more maturity and the all important good basemap the Thundermax package looked to have some real promise.

Operative word... "looked".

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Twolanerider]

Operative word... "looked".

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

amen

[CR]

One issue with the autotune kit from PCV. The widebandsensors are actually quite long and I had some difficulty installing the one on the back cylinder of my 2008 RK CVO, without ruining the wiring (maybe it is different from 2009 onwards?). They could have provided the kit with compact widebands from Bosch. Loosening the headers is the last thing you want to do when installing O2 sensors, next thing you know the exhaust is leaking and nothing works anymore.