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Author Topic: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG  (Read 43817 times)

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Twolanerider

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2011, 12:59:34 AM »

Once the ECM has returned you’ll have only to plug it in, bolt it in place and tidy up the new wiring with a few wire ties.  One suggestion here though.  Before bolting the ECM down tightly slide a long wire tie behind it.  Use that wire tie to secure the new interpreter module to the ECM. 
The new module comes with a glue pack to hold it to the ECM.  Under road vibration and given the minimal contact surface of the ribs on the top of the ECM the module potentially falling off and then dangling on its small wires can be avoided with a cheap wire tie.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2011, 01:00:39 AM »

First Run After Installation

The install docs describe a short calibration procedure for the oxygen sensors.  A supplemental sheet provided says this is no longer necessary.  My rear sensor was very slightly out of calibration though.  So it’s worth the 30 seconds it takes to check the calibration.  If an adjustment is necessary you’ve added only a few seconds to the overall installation.

Once the sensor calibrations are assured you start the bike and let it idle long enough to get to operating temperature.  That’s it; the entirety of the initial dial-in is done.  No maps to load and nothing else to tinker with.  No runs to collect data.  No hours spent slowly dialing in a vendor supplied map that was never terribly specific to your bike to begin with.  Just start the bike and ride it for a bit.  And never look back.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2011, 01:04:08 AM »

Summary

Summary will be a bit long.  I’m usually the skeptic.  It’s fun to be this pleased and impressed by a new product though.

This bike ran great before the EMS installation.  It runs better now.  It had a good tune before.  It’s been improved.  EMS has made the bike smoother with noticeably sharper throttle response.  It’s also much better behaved in cold weather.  But all that’s not the half of it.

This bike did have a good tune.  The bike ran great, pulled hard and pulled early.  It reported 120 hp and 120 ft pds of torque and got 35 mpg while doing so.  Not bad.  Many of you have ridden it.  I loved the way it ran.  So no real performance gains were expected.  



The goal here, and promise of the EMS product, is that starting from then building on the admittedly significant capabilities of the stock ECM that a more stable, more capable, more immediately adaptive and more efficient engine management platform is capable.  The stock maps are restrictive.  For environmental and other reasons.  The stock hardware isn’t fully exercised or used most efficiently.  Cracking the code on the stock ECM, building a map whose first goal is making the bike run well and combining that map with hardware and software additions whose purposes are to more fully and efficiently utilize the map and onboard systems suggests potential real improvement for engine management.  That suite of improvement is what got my interest.

Having said that no real performance gains were expected; some were had anyway.  In a few different ways both subtle and large.  The bike is a much smoother low speed performer now. The dyno tuned map appears in comparison to have been better optimized for time above 2800-3000 RPM.  It wasn’t bad before.  It’s just significantly more responsive now at lower and mid-range RPMs that are produced at lower throttle position settings (TPS).

The bike’s torque curve comes in sooner now.  That’s always good for a heavy bike.  The pull is also smoother between 2000 and 3200.  Before there was a noticeable spot where the bike seemed to catch its breath about 2800.  No longer.  It starts pulling now and just keeps going.  Evenly, smoothly and overall more strongly than it did before.

The bike initially starts and runs much better in cool temps.  Previously it felt like a carb’d bike when started at temps of 35 or so and below.  Now it’s smooth from moment one in temps that have been as low as 25.

Now the real kicker.  There is real performance improvement, an overall smoother running engine with sharper throttle response and an overall better riding experience out of a bike that already ran great to begin with.  And I went from 35 mpg to 45 mpg in the process.  So it is doing whatever it is doing much more efficiently.

A cool difference in the bike now is that with the simple Dayton Twin Tec scan tool that tool can be setup for use with wide band sensors and AFR monitoring.  Using it here on a “dumb” old 2005 bike that was never intended to have this capability the Twin Tec scanner plugged right in to the bike’s stock data port and now gives live AFR readings.  Readings that can be logged and studied for your amusement or other use.  

It was interesting to watch the EMS system “learn” the bike during its first minutes of idling after first start up.  Reviewing data logs over about 450 miles so far have further shown at least the basics of the adaptability the bike has now that it never had (couldn’t have had) before.

Engine management settings danced around for the first 20 miles or so the bike was ridden after install.  After that nearly zero new movement.  That is not to say AFR and other engine management settings are always static now.  Just that your “tune” is done after about 20 miles of riding.  Just riding.

Now rather than a straight 13.5:1 AFR, for example, you can see a given RPM at a TPS relative to a highway cruise speed be higher than the same RPM at a TPS that would be relative to accelerating to pass a truck or putt-putting through in-town traffic.  Its programming is now smart enough to vary and adapt to need and load  And it does this more quickly, efficiently and correctly than I’ve ever seen engine management on any other Harley system do this before.  

It really was cool to review the data logs.  The adaptive read of its own history and repopulation of the VE tables at each ride real time is probably what will avoid the “wandering” tune that some Twin Tec and Thundermax module users have experienced.  This gets beyond my homework and understanding of the system.  But it’s an ability of the EMS system that helps our experience each and every ride.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 01:10:12 AM by Twolanerider »
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Twolanerider

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2011, 01:04:59 AM »

Part II and done...


Load based engine management could easily be seen in real time with the bike on the dyno.  The engine management system is now an overall more responsive system.  The basic X-Y relationships of our old tuning maps aren’t limiting as they were before.  The entire run looks to be managed more expansively, efficiently and intelligently.

If someone didn’t have a good tune to begin with their improvement would be more striking than mine.  If someone were doing an engine build and simply wanted to know the new build was ready to run immediately the EMS package seems an ideal solution.  The same seems true for anyone in a shop environment who doesn’t have a dyno.  The range of engine builds one could now do in house and make a full service build ready to roll out the door at completion would be significantly expanded.

For a guy at home in his garage like me, however, who just wants a great tune without the hassles, who is interested in a system for a Harley that is finally modern and capable, and provides all this easily without a single ride for data logging, without a single bit of software review or without a single spin on the dyno this is a no brainer.  

With the locals knowing the bike lift and a willingness to play reside in my garage I’ve gone through the tuning experience with the TTS package, Thundermaxes, Power Commanders and the Daytona Twin Tec ECMs.  

All can take either considerable time riding the bike and dialing things in or time, travel and expense for dyno tuning that may or may not be well done.  That same “may or may not be well done” is also the case for the canned maps that come with the aftermarket packages.  They rarely specifically match your build and you’re still at the mercy of the tuner who made them.  Some are good, some aren’t, and if the bike runs “ok” you really never know what you’re leaving on the table.  

Have done the TTS package, for example, on two different bikes.  Spent more time each time just familiarizing myself with the software enough to get started than it took to completely install the EMS package.  It then took several more hours of boring tedious riding to dial the bikes in enough to get them close.  With the EMS package the hardware was installed and I was done.  The before and after comparison to what was a good running bike to begin with prove I was done in good order with a well tuned and efficiently running bike too.

The same comparisons hold true for Thundermax or Power Commander.  Just removed a Power Commander I was completely happy with until it got glitchy and have the Marelli to Thundermax conversion on the old 2000 SERG.  They’re all competent products.  They really are.  But they’re not this easy.  And honestly I don’t think end results will regularly be as good.  With considerable time, effort and/or expense you might tune with them to run as well.  But it'll never be this easy.

I am usually the skeptic.  The first to doubt vendor promises and overblown product descriptions.  This thing just works though.  If you’re someone who enjoys the “process” of the monotonous hours necessary to dial in a TTS, Thundermax or other tuning package by all means don’t let my experience dissuade you.  We each have our own types of enjoyment.  If, however, you’re like me and just want it to work, well and immediately, and do so easily with literally near zero time in the effort the EMS package has to be a strong consideration.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 01:13:19 AM by Twolanerider »
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FNGw/08SERK

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2011, 09:18:55 AM »

Thanks for the write-up Don  :2vrolijk_21:  :2vrolijk_21:
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sadunbar

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2011, 09:27:55 AM »

Don,

How did the fuel mileage compare after the Rev Perf. EMS kit installation?

Scott
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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2011, 09:34:29 AM »

Great stuff Twolaner. 
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ultrafxr

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Don's install of Rev Per EMS
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2011, 09:42:25 AM »

Don, just read through your essay on this project and the results.  Most impressive - both the product and your write up.  So good in fact that I did not want to 'reply' to your post but rather start a new one to comment.  I would suggest you have the mods lock down your post so we can save it for future reference and if need be you can update it.

Regards,

Jerry
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erniezap

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2011, 10:13:35 AM »

Hey Don, great write up, and I am glad to see that you are having the same results that I had when I took off the Daytona Twin Tech and installed the RevPerf!  The difference in throttle response, idle, and low rpm's are pretty amazing, and make the bike a lot more fun to ride!
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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2011, 10:49:28 AM »

Awesome write up Don!  That's we want to hear right there!  Glad to hear you are enjoying the product.

Brian
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Twolanerider

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2011, 11:46:08 AM »

Don,

How did the fuel mileage compare after the Rev Perf. EMS kit installation?

Scott

It got better Scott.  Had been told that the majority of the bike's "learning" would happen in the first 20 miles or so.  The Twin Tec logs pretty closely supported that.  So I waited to top the tank off until it had about 50 miles on it. 

After that had about 260 miles on it before spinning on the dyno.  Filled up just before climbing on the wheel.  Over that span the bike got 45 mpg.  Before I averaged about 35 mpg. 

I never complained about 35 mpg.  That was perfectly satisfactory given the power the engine made and how I ride.  But I'm also not complaining about a more than 20% increase for an hour's work that also made the bike run a bit better in the process.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2011, 11:47:46 AM »

Hey Don, great write up, and I am glad to see that you are having the same results that I had when I took off the Daytona Twin Tech and installed the RevPerf!  The difference in throttle response, idle, and low rpm's are pretty amazing, and make the bike a lot more fun to ride!

Thanks Ernie.  I was interested to begin with.  Yours and Jim's experience with your bike certainly made the choice feel even safer though.
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Twolanerider

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2011, 11:51:05 AM »

Awesome write up Don!  That's we want to hear right there!  Glad to hear you are enjoying the product.

Brian

Thanks Brian.  Once again thanks also for all the time you and Andrew were willing to take with a newbie customer as I bent your ears about the package.  We run in to too many vendors who act like they do us a favor by allowing us to be their customer.  It's feels good on those rare occasions when we again find a shop that actually gives a damn and is interested. 
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Twolanerider

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Re: Don's install of Rev Per EMS
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2011, 11:59:14 AM »

Thanks Jerry.  Just glad if it's helpful to someone.  Hasn't been a reason for one of those detailed install threads for quite awhile.  Was funny that the write up and photos took probably three times longer than the install would have by itself :huepfenlol2: .
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cvobiker

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Re: Install of the Revolution Performance EMS Tuning Kit on the 05 SEEG
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2011, 12:08:19 PM »

WOW,,,,all that work in your write up deserves a free trial,, good job   :2vrolijk_21: :2vrolijk_21: I hope Bryan took care of you    ;)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 12:11:30 PM by cvobiker »
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