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Author Topic: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit  (Read 17200 times)

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mark

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2018, 10:08:42 AM »

I have to question a HD dealer that is presented with a bike stuck in limp mode and their “fix” is to just disable that feature.  This is akin to your car’s check engine light going off and the dealer’s fix is to put a piece of tape over the light.
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ultrarider123

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2018, 10:18:56 AM »

I have to question a HD dealer that is presented with a bike stuck in limp mode and their “fix” is to just disable that feature.  This is akin to your car’s check engine light going off and the dealer’s fix is to put a piece of tape over the light.

Exactly what I was thinking, Mark.  So you paid for a feature that isn't working and the fix is to disable it...problem solved?  Wow... :nixweiss:
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JaronCVO

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2018, 11:45:26 AM »

1. Listen to the "professionals" but don't automatically assume they actually know anything or are telling you the truth, especially if they are Harley dealership people.  The word professional only means they get paid for what they do, not that they are right or infallible.

2. If the bike goes into limp mode, pull over safely and check the diagnostic codes.  There is a big difference between limp mode and what happens when the engine is sumping.

3. EITMS does not normally affect anything but idle while the bike is sitting still.  If it really did kick in and cut off the rear cylinder while riding, there is something seriously wrong.  Don't just turn it off and keep on keeping on, get it fixed by a competent shop.  The one you left the bike at should have dug deeper and found out what was really wrong, not just turn off EITMS and declare it OK.

JMHO - Jerry

I agree with what you are saying to a point. My bike has the power vision, due to the fact I didn't bring the monitor with me on my trip, the dealership couldn't complete a full diagnostics. I been reading all about sumping issues, my bike was having all the same characteristics described: 50 percent power, really hot, weird burning oil smell, the oil even appeared low, the engine didn't sound normal.
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JaronCVO

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2018, 11:54:31 AM »

Exactly what I was thinking, Mark.  So you paid for a feature that isn't working and the fix is to disable it...problem solved?  Wow... :nixweiss:

The dealership couldn't diagnose the problem due to the aftermarket software on my bike because I didn't have the Power Vision monitor. The issue is resolved and it got me home. Now I just have to wait for the rain to stop and I can take the bike to my tuner. There are a lot of features on bikes that we pay for and take off, exhaust, factory speakers, handle bars, factory engine tuning... to name a few. For dyno runs, the parade idle gets in the way.
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ultrarider123

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2018, 01:03:18 PM »

The dealership couldn't diagnose the problem due to the aftermarket software on my bike because I didn't have the Power Vision monitor. The issue is resolved and it got me home. Now I just have to wait for the rain to stop and I can take the bike to my tuner. There are a lot of features on bikes that we pay for and take off, exhaust, factory speakers, handle bars, factory engine tuning... to name a few. For dyno runs, the parade idle gets in the way.

Very true, but that's the owner's choice to do so.  Repairs by disabling ain't kosher.  However, getting the thing home was important, too, so if disabling it temporarily so you could get it home worked, there you go.  Having the dealership say it's fixed by disabling would be the issue I'd have if it were mine.

I've got a questions for Jerry (grc).  Isn't the EITMS run through the bike ECM?  If they could get to the ECM program to deactivate the EITMS so Jaron could get home, what kept them from actually diagnosing the actual problem for him?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 01:05:30 PM by Haird »
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Unbalanced

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2018, 01:12:56 PM »

Something seems a little off -  the EITMS can be deactivated at the throttle grip manually or by the software currently available like PowerVision, TTS, Direct Link etc. and mother Harley’s Digital Tech

PowerVision doesn’t lock the ECM so unsure why they couldn’t either manually turn off EITMS or do any testing with the digital tech.   That part makes no sense.   Only TTS afaik locks any portion of the ECU.

The part about they couldn’t access the ECU for testing needs to be better understood.
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JaronCVO

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2018, 03:22:37 PM »

Something seems a little off -  the EITMS can be deactivated at the throttle grip manually or by the software currently available like PowerVision, TTS, Direct Link etc. and mother Harley’s Digital Tech

PowerVision doesn’t lock the ECM so unsure why they couldn’t either manually turn off EITMS or do any testing with the digital tech.   That part makes no sense.   Only TTS afaik locks any portion of the ECU.

The part about they couldn’t access the ECU for testing needs to be better understood.

Not sure why they couldn't or didn't want to troubleshoot someone else tune. But being a traveler, all they did was check all the machinery, check for metal shavings in the oil, compression on the pistons, listen to the oil pump, and whatever else they do. All checked out good, for some reason or another, the EITMS kicked on while riding and wouldn't turn off by itself. Being 700 miles from home, all I wanted to do was get her home without being stranded. I've lost confidence in the parade idle function and happy to have it disabled. At the end of the day, I'm rarely ever in traffic and I have been wanting the EITMS permanently disabled for a while.

Anyway, I'm not here to diagnose why the EITMS kicked on. I'm sharing my experience so if it happens to you, you know to check the EITMS to see if it's enabled while riding. My bike didn't have any lights on the dash or any indication that something was off. The characteristics are all the same with oil sumping with the exception of smoke from the exhaust. There is a youtube video on how to disable the EITMS if you run into the same problem. One of my club brothers blew his engine (2017 stage 4) the same day coming from Houston to AZ. They say he kept going when his bike went into limp mode or running on 50 percent power.
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skiindean

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2018, 02:07:56 AM »

My 2018 FLHXS Stage 4 w/1600+ miles sumped over the weekend. Never even heard of “sumping”. Now I know too much about it. Was on highway, started running rough, lost power, engine braking, didn’t sound or feel right, 1 3/4 quarts low...the day before it was full which made no sense. Same exact story as everyone else. My dealer picked it up Tuesday. The bike was bought end of August 2017, I now know about the SB 1450 7th revision from 11-15-17. Bike was at dealer for 4 months for all the fit mods I need as a left leg BK amputee. Got it back in January, I do ride year round. I couldn’t be happier with these guys, excellent dealer, phenomenal service department, takes great care of me. I’m the guy from the 3-8-09 Accident thread on this forums Rider Down area. Confidence in my dealer is 1000% all ways around. Hoping Harley makes it right on their end too. Fingers crossed.
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dstel61

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2018, 06:54:44 AM »

well I guess I am now a member of this unfortunate club. Last weekend I was "going hard" and noticed crazy heart coming out of the motor. When I stopped and checked the oil it didn't even register on the dipstick (no lights were on). I put in a quart and a half and then bike ran at about 50% power. I was out in the desert so I made it to the small town of Borrego Springs and called the dealer. They did come get me which was cool since I was over 100 miles away and then called me a couple days later and told me it sumped and motor trashed. I have a great relationship with this dealer (hopefully will be saying that after this is over) and only good news is they will let me do the stage 4 when they fix and just pay diff in parts. I got the bike in Oct 17 and the stage 4 was not available at the time.
Thank God I have a 2nd bike to ride while this "project" goes on. Who knows how long and who I will end up fighting with before I am back in the wind on this bike. Hate the thought of having to break in another fricking motor. The under 3000 rpm deal is complete torture to me!
This unfortunately is the 3rd motor I have trashed in the last 3 years. With JC retired and moved away I can't even blame him for this one...
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dstel61

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2018, 07:02:12 AM »

Bought a 2018 CVO StreetGlide from Boston HD on June 29th
after 400mi the bike experienced a 50% power loss after riding on the highway for an hour
the situation corrected itself when the bike cooled
Dealer looked at the bike and said nothing was wrong.
Installed a stage 4 kit and the problem came back again
Also the power fades when the motor warms up on the highway
Now I am getting a high pitched screeching noise from the motor under full throttle when the motor is hot .

I know the motor is sumping yet the dealer refuses to do the proper fix
Anyone have a similar issue ?
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grc

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2018, 08:22:07 AM »

Bought a 2018 CVO StreetGlide from Boston HD on June 29th
after 400mi the bike experienced a 50% power loss after riding on the highway for an hour
the situation corrected itself when the bike cooled
Dealer looked at the bike and said nothing was wrong.
Installed a stage 4 kit and the problem came back again
Also the power fades when the motor warms up on the highway
Now I am getting a high pitched screeching noise from the motor under full throttle when the motor is hot .

I know the motor is sumping yet the dealer refuses to do the proper fix
Anyone have a similar issue ?

Have you contacted H-D Corporate yet, and if no why not?  Everything you mentioned is abnormal, unacceptable, and a pretty sure sign that engine will soon be toast.  Your dealership is either incompetent or  :nixweiss:.

Jerry
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laylonlor

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2018, 06:30:40 PM »

any 19's havin problem yet?, i fixing to get one, hope all is well in harley land :nixweiss:
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kojak

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2018, 05:21:28 PM »

There is a good series of articles in the current issue of American Iron that talks about the stage 3/4 sumping issues for some of the CVO M8's and the other less common issue of the transmission fluid migrating into the primary.
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kojak
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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2018, 08:08:45 AM »

There is a good series of articles in the current issue of American Iron that talks about the stage 3/4 sumping issues for some of the CVO M8's and the other less common issue of the transmission fluid migrating into the primary.
Sure is the last two issues have been covering it.  Very interesting. 
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kojak

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Re: M8 sumpping problems stage 4 kit
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2018, 06:01:57 PM »

Sure is the last two issues have been covering it.  Very interesting.
Yup, with the Euro 4 standards going in, they are giving the old pushrod engine another year or two before it goes away.
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kojak
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