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[helimd]

Anybody looking for a good deal on a low mileage, 2010 CVO Softail Convertible?  I'm done.  Yesterday, I happened to see an old friend of mine in a plumbing supply house.  He was hobbling quite badly and looked terrible.  After the opening hello's were out of the way, I asked him what happened.  Having an idea that his Road Glide was involved, he proceeded to show me his right leg.  With probably 10, or more, scars visible, he told me about being center-punched by a teen-aged girl at a major intersection here in Oklahoma City.  The girl was texting, blew through a red light, and destroyed my friend's RG.  Sadly, his long-time girlfriend was killed, and he spent the next several months recovering.

The cage driver had no insurance, dead-beat parents, and absolutely no means to pay off any judgments that would ever be levied against her.  My friend is now stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills, a ruined life, and the knowledge that this little bitch is getting off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist. 

I don't know about any of you guys, but since the invention of cell phones and texting, I have come closer to being killed by cagers than I did in the first 40 years of my riding motorcycles.  I'm finished, tired of having my head mounted on the proverbial swivel, trying to avoid these idiots.  Maybe Mr. Trump will introduce legislation that will mandate the death penalty for those found to be using their phone while driving. 

Good luck out there and be safe.

[mr_magoo]

It is a lot more dangerous out there these days,  I think 1 in 5 people are on there cell phone that I see on my way home in heavy traffic every day.  It's getting to the point that I don't feel like riding much in town.

[RayG]

That's a tough call to make, but I completely understand.  I don't think there is a person who puts on some decent mileage on there bike that hasn't had a number of close calls. 

A few years ago on July 4th I broke a belt 4.5 miles from home.  My wife and I each heavy boots which gave us some blisters walking home.  I was pissing & moaning all the way back.  Picked up the bike with the trailer and was sitting down to rest after the ordeal only to hear that a guy about 8 miles from where I live just got home from vacation and while his family was unpacking he went for some take out food on his bike.  Some young girl from out of State dropped her cell phone and while trying to retrieve it crossed the centerline and hit the rider head on.  He didn't pass away from the hit, it was being pinned under the car and scraped against the high curbing.  It was a horrible situation.  My wife and I just looked at each other knowing full well that lives were changed forever.  The girl was charged for driving to endanger and that was it.  It is getting more dangerous out there and that is a fact and without stiffer consequences there is no end in site.   

[ultrarider123]

It is a lot more dangerous out there these days,  I think 1 in 5 people are on are NOT on their cell phone that I see on my way home in heavy traffic every day.  It's getting to the point that I don't feel like riding much in town.

I've updated your post, Magoo to reflect what we experience locally.

 I've had two close encounters in Oak Ridge recently similar to that described by the OP.  One a young person not even slowing down for the light that had been red for at least 5 seconds....head looking to his steering wheel with both hands holding a phone.  The second was what looked to be a lady in her 70's.  She wasn't texting but had her attention on the phone in her left hand (which was blocking her vision on the left side and left side mirror), handicap placard on her interior rear mirror.  Running normal speed on the OR Turnpike but completely missed the light that was red....she never slowed.  If I had not been attentive in my operation of the bike, the first example would have had me as a hood ornament.

Cell phones in general along with the recent addition of texting has made our local roads extremely dangerous.  Helimd, when the fun time spent on two wheels has been overshadowed by having to avoid the bull with you as the red cape, I agree it's time to hang it up...

[Twolanerider]

I'm not an advocate for significant governmental intrusion in to the personal lives of its citizens.  This is an area where I allow myself some inconsistency.  I've had a few close calls also.  We probably all have.  Perhaps more than we've realized just because we didn't get nailed and didn't realize it.

I have no faith at all that this will get better behaviorally on its own.  Traffic fines won't make any real impact.  This will require a technological solution.  Cars and/or phones will have to be equipped and/or programmed such that texting functions are disabled while the vehicle is moving.  It'll have to be Federal.

[ultrarider123]

Cars and/or phones will have to be equipped and/or programmed such that texting functions are disabled while the vehicle is moving.  It'll have to be Federal.

Hey Don, I'll go a bit further on that.  If the car is in a drive mode either in gear for a manual or in D or R for an automatic, a "device" in the vehicle will block all cell coverage.  I emphasize everyday to our company drivers that there is NOTHING that can't wait to answer/respond until you can safely pull over to respond OR wait until you reach your destination to park and respond.  So dangerous.

This should also apply to law enforcement...at least he's on an HD....

[Twolanerider]

Hey Don, I'll go a bit further on that.  If the car is in a drive mode either in gear for a manual or in D or R for an automatic, a "device" in the vehicle will block all cell coverage.  I emphasize everyday to our company drivers that there is NOTHING that can't wait to answer/respond until you can safely pull over to respond OR wait until you reach your destination to park and respond.  So dangerous.

This should also apply to law enforcement...at least he's on an HD....

I'll readily admit I wouldn't be terribly opposed to just blocking the damned things in vehicles that aren't in motion.  Wouldn't break my heart at all if there weren't deployable tech to get the job done short of that.  The only "short of that" that I'd consider as exception are things like nav and just a few others that are truly benefits to the process.  They'd have to be hands free and primarily voice.  But if that still led to statistically appreciable issues I'd block 'em all.  Cars moved just fine for a century without the drivers having to be connected. 

Some evolutionary solution will be the greater connectivity of the cars themselves that we're starting to see more and more now.  That will deploy in ways that distract drivers less.  If not at first then after a car manufacturer or two gets nailed by a large settlement for abetting a driver's distracted control.  But it's still a mess.  Head on a swivel all the time.  I almost never ride to work at the High School because of the chaos that is all the students pulling away at the end of the day.  Truly don't know how they keep from bouncing off of each other in large quantities every day as 80% don't look outside.

[grc]

More unenforced or unenforceable laws aren't the answer.  It's been illegal to use a cell phone while driving around Chicago for a long time, and yet any time I drive one of the major highways and toll roads in the area I estimate a full 50% of the people I pass or that pass me are on the phone.  And that doesn't include the ones that hide the phone in their laps.

Twolane  and Haird are on the right track, IMHO.  I've been suggesting for years that all vehicles be required to include cell phone jamming technology that engages any time the vehicle is moving.  The chance of ever seeing such a thing is less than slim however, considering the political climate.  Perhaps if enough legislators lose a close family member to the dimwits using mobile devices while driving they will take it seriously, but right now we are all at the mercy of the "the rules are for everyone else but me" crowd. 

Jerry

[iski]

Texting and driving is a bad idea & have had to avoid a few unaware drivers both in the car & on the bike.  When I traveled it was almost daily, in some areas more than once a day (Miami, Atlanta, Houston).   Rural roads they cross the lines unawares. But talking and driving has been occurring since the first horseless carriage, with a passenger (s) telling the driver to slow down, quit hitting so many bumps, look at that squirrel! etc..

In a few years technology will make the "looking down & thumb typing" stuff obsolete.  It already is for some people. At some point it will be all voice.  See that now some, people carrying on conversations with their windshields.  Before cell phones got popular, they were singing ABBA songs to their windshields.  Not sure which is worse. 

[Dean_Nelson]

I use to ride to work all the time...over the last 20 years. I do not any more. I stopped 2 years ago.
now I only ride on Sunday, get up  and ride west only to get away from Chicago.
they just don't care any more out their......they are just so special they need to be on that phone all the time.

Dean Nelson

[BigLew]

It is very different that's for sure. I just make sure I pray before I fire her up. I have more peace than ever about riding. I found it amazing when we were group riding at MV GTG this year when we invited some folks to join us for a group prayer before we left in the morning, that some folks just refused. That was hard to understand. I know lots of folds that don't believe and that's ok, I would want to hedge my bet every chance I got. But usually I just out run the cagers! LOL

BigLew

[08glide]

AMEN !  Mike

[TraumaSlave]

During MV, our group was returning with me in the lead. We had followed a young girl for about 20 miles who was driving with her left foot propped in the window and chatting away with her passenger. She moves into the turn lane to make a left turn into a gas station/McDonald's and just as my front tire got next to her bumper, she decided she didn't want to turn and started back into the lane. As the crash flashed before my eyes, I slammed on the brakes, locked the rear enough to get it a little sideways, and counted the centimeters close. No where to go with the group riding staggered and no time to assure not taking out another bike. I got real lucky. So did she. Every bone in my body wanted to go back and make sure that dumb chick looked from then on. Not sure I could have controlled my anger enough to express how close she came to seriously injuring me. Then I realized how stupid I was for putting myself in the position of getting hurt.

[dayne66]

I always assume EVERYONEon the road is trying to kill me...and try to act accordingly.

[grayghost731]

You Guy's act like you have a choice of how you want to die.        Live  Your  Life!   

[Para Bellum]

You Guy's act like you have a choice of how you want to die.

I hear what you're saying, but can I try to avoid certain ways of dying?   

[ultrarider123]

You Guy's act like you have a choice of how you want to die.        Live  Your  Life!   

I do. Every day is a blessing to be saved, wake up with Vickie, have a job, great kids and grandkids and get to enjoy riding as much as possible. There will come a time that I will not be able to ride.  I'll cross that bridge when the good Lord decides.
But the cell phone/texting while driving folks aren't helping the enjoyable riding cause...

[Twolanerider]

You Guy's act like you have a choice of how you want to die.        Live  Your  Life!   

Absolute control?  Of course not.  Discretion at the margins and choices?  You're f-n-A right I do. 

Asked once "what would you like your last three words to be?"  My choice would be "that was fun!"  Randomness might intrude on how that fun plays out.  But I've got a say too.  Anything other is simple fatalism and that, if nothing else, is absolutely boring.

[Road Dad]

It is not illegal to use your cellphone while driving in Chicago as long as you use a handsfree device of some sort.

More unenforced or unenforceable laws aren't the answer.  It's been illegal to use a cell phone while driving around Chicago for a long time, and yet any time I drive one of the major highways and toll roads in the area I estimate a full 50% of the people I pass or that pass me are on the phone.  And that doesn't include the ones that hide the phone in their laps.

Twolane  and Haird are on the right track, IMHO.  I've been suggesting for years that all vehicles be required to include cell phone jamming technology that engages any time the vehicle is moving.  The chance of ever seeing such a thing is less than slim however, considering the political climate.  Perhaps if enough legislators lose a close family member to the dimwits using mobile devices while driving they will take it seriously, but right now we are all at the mercy of the "the rules are for everyone else but me" crowd. 

Jerry

[FLSTFI Dave]

Drinking and driving use to be the biggest Killer on our roads.  Now its the cell phone, especially texting and driving.

Treat it like drinking and driving, huge fines, and license suspension, first offense and much works on second offense just like drinking and driving.  I think that could help.

[Road Dad]

Probably to a degree but there are still millions of idiots out there that drink and drive. I am in favour of huge fines starting at $5K and up.  Even the penalty for a first time DUI is way too lenient, mandatory jail time would be a good start. (For a DUI)  Fines and confiscation of equipment (Phones and cars)

Drinking and driving use to be the biggest Killer on our roads.  Now its the cell phone, especially texting and driving.

Treat it like drinking and driving, huge fines, and license suspension, first offense and much works on second offense just like drinking and driving.  I think that could help.

[bigchuck]

You Guy's act like you have a choice of how you want to die.        Live  Your  Life!   

Amen

[VaEagle]

Unfortunately trying to get stiffer fines for driving while distracted probably won't work since most people drive and think the other drivers are to blame and they are somehow endowed with a superpower to drive and chat or text and it doesn't affect them...
Until society is willing to give up the "convenience"  of being constantly in contact which I doubt....us older folks remember having to stop and find a payphone to make a call when away from home, somehow we survived the olden days. We will have to pay the price of higher accident rates.
Drunk driving rates didn't see a decline until organizations like MADD were formed and people finally got a moral compass and were educated that it was considered morally wrong to drink and drive. (Not because of increased laws, there are still many loopholes.)
Probably the only way to "put the genie back in the bottle" as far as distracted driving is to make the phone companies install a program or hardware to shut off phones once they are moving above a certain speed such as a walking pace. That way people would have to pull over to use their phones. Even then I'm sure somebody would sell a device to defeat that block.

There is a car commercial out now that talks about the average attention span is 8 seconds and this new car has things like lane departure warnings and automatic braking if too close to another vehicle........Isn't that letting people distract themselves since they will now rely on the sensors to warn them of a pending accident instead of learning to focus on the skill of driving? How will that affect liability? (I wasn't responsible, the sensor failed etc..)

[110tHunDer]

...

This should also apply to law enforcement...at least he's on an HD....

I see cops holding cell phones up to their ears all the time around here.  Total BS. 

[BigLew]

I always assume EVERYONEon the road is trying to kill me...and try to act accordingly.

TramaSlave and 66 you are both correct. I don't care how bad their driving becomes, I'm going to ride.

BigLew

[BigLew]

One other thing while I'm at it. I really need my phone and I hate government intervention to make people do things that common sense dictate we should do but most people just will not do that. Phones should not work above a certain speed and it should not be hard to make that work. They are a horrible distraction just answering and talking, that whole texting and using a smart phone to search is crazy. But we have proved once again that maybe we are too stupid and selfish to do the right thing. Maybe we should take the same approach that the GUN CRAZIES do. Someone gets killed with a gun and its the GUNS FAULT. Ban them all!! So Lets go after the phone companies, Lets get a group and some lawyers to sue the phone companies. Who is with me??

BigLew

[HUBBARD]

I'm in, BigLew!  Class action.  Me?  I'm gonna' live 'till I die.  The Good Book says it's appointed unto us once to die, and we don't know when that is.  However, it goes on to say that a man can shorten his days.  God knows, I've flirted with that declaration, but obviously it just wasn't my time.  All I know is, I'm still crazy as hell, concerning certain things, but to a lesser degree than I once was.  As Pacino said in "Heat", "you can get killed walkn' your doggie!"  Not to be morbid, but I just hope when I do go......it's quick.  I don't want to be a burden to my family, or anybody, for that matter.  It's 70 degrees here!  I'm gonna' go twist Ol' Maybelle up!  'Sposed to snow this weekend!  Later--HUBBARD     

[BigLew]

I'm in, BigLew!  Class action.  Me?  I'm gonna' live 'till I die.  The Good Book says it's appointed unto us once to die, and we don't know when that is.  However, it goes on to say that a man can shorten his days.  God knows, I've flirted with that declaration, but obviously it just wasn't my time.  All I know is, I'm still crazy as hell, concerning certain things, but to a lesser degree than I once was.  As Pacino said in "Heat", "you can get killed walkn' your doggie!"  Not to be morbid, but I just hope when I do go......it's quick.  I don't want to be a burden to my family, or anybody, for that matter.  It's 70 degrees here!  I'm gonna' go twist Ol' Maybelle up!  'Sposed to snow this weekend!  Later--HUBBARD     

Carl I thought you had gone into hibernation. I took a 3.5 hr lunch so I could ride up tward Pilot Mt. It would be good for you to read that good Old Book some more. It would indeed do my heart good to see you on the other side.

BigLew

[FLSTFI Dave]

Probably to a degree but there are still millions of idiots out there that drink and drive. I am in favour of huge fines starting at $5K and up.  Even the penalty for a first time DUI is way too lenient, mandatory jail time would be a good start. (For a DUI)  Fines and confiscation of equipment (Phones and cars)

Drinking and driving has gone way down, but it still has a long way to go.  TN there is mandatory Jail time for first offense, community service and 10K in costs for the average first DUI, and thats not counting the crazy high insurance rates after that. 

[TraumaSlave]

Drinking and driving has gone way down, but it still has a long way to go.  TN there is mandatory Jail time for first offense, community service and 10K in costs for the average first DUI, and thats not counting the crazy high insurance rates after that.

If it's mandatory time, the judges don't enforce it. That, and the fines don't mean squat to a broke drunk. I've seen far too many repeat offenders in the ER. Slot of them don't even have a license. Didn't you know it's the state past time in eastern Tn to drink and drive the back roads?

[coloradotom]

Drinking and driving use to be the biggest Killer on our roads.  Now its the cell phone, especially texting and driving.

Treat it like drinking and driving, huge fines, and license suspension, first offense and much works on second offense just like drinking and driving.  I think that could help.

Here it you get a DUI you get a box in your car that you have to blow in - for the duration, I think it's 2 years for the first time.

For texting / cell phone infractions I would be entirely supportive of installing a 'jammer' like type thing where the cell phone can't be used in the car. Get caught once, 6 months. Second time, 2 years, etc.

Luckily the cell coverage out here is awful so this isn't too big of an issue until you get past the hogback out towards Denver, then the cidiots are out in full force.

[iski]

There are several threads here about Bluetooth headsets on bikes & cell phone use.  Many new cars have Bluetooth, more so every year.  Hands free communication is getting easier & easier.

What's the take on this, Bluetooth cell phone use ok/not ok?  Ok for cars & bikes both?  Not ok?

As for me, I use Bluetooth in the car, have for years, no issues.  On the bike, nope, not why I ride the bike, to talk on the phone.  Not just because it is a distraction, it's because I spent too many years with a cell phone at my ear for hours & hours a day for work. Have even quit the CB except for very rare instances.

Interested in opinions, if there are any. 

[Twolanerider]

There are several threads here about Bluetooth headsets on bikes & cell phone use.  Many new cars have Bluetooth, more so every year.  Hands free communication is getting easier & easier.

What's the take on this, Bluetooth cell phone use ok/not ok?  Ok for cars & bikes both?  Not ok?

As for me, I use Bluetooth in the car, have for years, no issues.  On the bike, nope, not why I ride the bike, to talk on the phone.  Not just because it is a distraction, it's because I spent too many years with a cell phone at my ear for hours & hours a day for work. Have even quit the CB except for very rare instances.

Interested in opinions, if there are any. 

Honestly don't know what accident stats suggest so this is just a layman's take on it.  But a truly hands free conversation on the phone that takes no more of my attention than answering with the same motion that I might change a radio station doesn't worry me much.  My own impression is that there is no more (and potentially less) distraction here than comes with a conversation with another passenger in the car.

Instead it's all the crap that takes a driver's focus off the windshield.  Looking down to text, to see who has texted, to make sure the Candy Crush has been appropriately crushed or eaten or whatever is done with a crushed candy or even overly intrusive navigation software.  I can have a conversation from behind the wheel.  Just don't ask me to do more or; as is the problem for so many, perhaps even allow me to do more because I might just be too damned not do allow the distraction.

As for Bluetooth coms on the bike; I've done it.  Was coincidentally on a trip home in Europe when Nolan's first released there quite a few years ago and picked one up as I cam home.  So probably had one of the first ones in the States as they weren't released on shore here for about six months after. 

Bluetooth coms for an intercom is no different than wired intercom and it is certainly less distracting than cocking your head back to hear the BSR yell from the back seat.  Coms for a phone call on the back... well... again (and the stats may suggest otherwise) I don't see it as distinctly different than any other conversation on the bike.  After the first six months or so I had mine, however, I never messed with phones on the bike again.  Not due to some heightened level of distraction but just because the bike is some place I didn't want to be bothered and (fortunately for us) it is also a place that most civilians to riding wouldn't think to disagree when you say, "oh, I was on the bike, sorry, no way to take a call."

[BigLew]

Already expressed my opinion. Outlaw phones in anything that moves. I mean make them unusable. Making it illegal is good but almost unenforceable. I know Bluetooth is better but is still very dangerous. Maybe incoming a message tells you if you have a message that way you can stop and check but that all. Even those of us who think we can Bluetooth and drive are distracted. Pretty sure it will not happen phone companies will lose billable time. But it needs to happen. We are too stupid to do the smart thing.

BigLew

[VaEagle]

It really doesn't matter whether you talk on a phone by Bluetooth or use your hands....several studies have shown that the danger aspect of using a phone while driving is in the fact that to carry on a conversation the brain gets distracted and the driver has the reaction time of a drunk driver. Maybe Bluetooth allows someone to keep their hands on a wheel/handlebars etc. and their eyes up but their brain has to register the conditions outside the vehicle and respond in a timely manner to avoid an accident.
Many drivers can operate a vehicle distracted under "normal" conditions....it's the sudden unexpected things that pop up that lead to accidents due to inability to respond correctly and quickly.
As I have stated earlier and others have said too, quick fix is to block all phone use while vehicle is moving by technology not laws. Otherwise we need to hope computer driven cars develop soon do they can be on autopilot for those who don't enjoy driving and just want to be transported to work.....
Remember when cars/trucks and even bikes were sold based on features such as power,speed, handling and feel of driving on the open road not by all the electronic bells and whistles it had?

[helimd]

BigLew, I'm with you on this one.  Although, even though I said it "tongue in cheek", I still think the death penalty would be the best way to deal with it.  I'm afraid this one just hit too close to home for me.  That being said, I am a firm advocate of the "eye for an eye" method of punishment.  But that's just me.  I have enjoyed all of your responses.  Thanks

[iski]

I see the car Bluetooth deal differently.  People carry on conversations in cars, front & back seat passengers.  Does that also distract the driver?  Even if the driver is not engaged in the conversation & only listening to his passengers talk, that could also be distracting.  When we outlaw speaking aloud in cars is when I would be ok with not allowing hands free phone conversations.

All sorts of things in cars distract drivers - air conditioning/heating controls, power seats, radios, all sorts of gadgets inside cars. Some people must talk on cell phones while they are inside their vehicles for work, can think of several.  Am tired of government interference & the nanny state telling us what we can/cannot do. 

Texting & driving  is a bad idea and should be illegal all over.  Using a cell phone without Bluetooth - same deal.  But outlaw speaking aloud in a car?  Not in favor.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Already expressed my opinion. Outlaw phones in anything that moves. I mean make them unusable. Making it illegal is good but almost unenforceable. I know Bluetooth is better but is still very dangerous. Maybe incoming a message tells you if you have a message that way you can stop and check but that all. Even those of us who think we can Bluetooth and drive are distracted. Pretty sure it will not happen phone companies will lose billable time. But it needs to happen. We are too stupid to do the smart thing.

BigLew

So my questions is what is the difference with my talking to my wife sitting in the seat next to me in my car, than me talking to her on the phone via blue tooth with the phone in the center console?  I would actually think it would be more distracting with her in the car due to the tendency to want to look at some one talking to you to see expressions.  On the phone blue tooth, where you can not touch the phone, it would be easier to keep your eyes on the road.

Same can be said about being on the bike.  What is the difference between using the phone blue tooth or talking to your wife on the back seat via intercom?

I agree all the above can be and are distracting.  I just feel a passenger in the car or on bike talking is more distracting.

[grc]

I see the car Bluetooth deal differently.  People carry on conversations in cars, front & back seat passengers.  Does that also distract the driver?  Even if the driver is not engaged in the conversation & only listening to his passengers talk, that could also be distracting.  When we outlaw speaking aloud in cars is when I would be ok with not allowing hands free phone conversations.

All sorts of things in cars distract drivers - air conditioning/heating controls, power seats, radios, all sorts of gadgets inside cars. Some people must talk on cell phones while they are inside their vehicles for work, can think of several.  Am tired of government interference & the nanny state telling us what we can/cannot do. 

Texting & driving  is a bad idea and should be illegal all over.  Using a cell phone without Bluetooth - same deal.  But outlaw speaking aloud in a car?  Not in favor.

Yes it does, especially when involved in a heated conversation rather than a simple comment or two.  As mentioned earlier by VaEagle, many studies have already shown that carrying on a conversation, as opposed to just having music playing in the background, engages your mind and distracts from the attention needed to drive safely.  Multi-tasking is a hoax perpetrated by those who want to do whatever they want whenever they want, regardless of the risk to others.

Nothing of course will actually be done to effectively stop the use of mobile devices while driving.  We have way too many people these days who believe they are more important than life itself and thus must always be available to any and all.  Talking, texting, and tweeting have somehow become inalienable rights to the self important.  No politician is going to propose a law to stop them.

Jerry

[Indenial]

Several times I have pulled up to a young girl who is on the phone texting away at a stop light.  I'll honk my horn a good 5 seconds ( a little longer than necessary). When she looks over, I'm shaking my finger (pointer) at her and nodding my head back and forth as in "no".   It's fun the watch their reaction. Most are embarrassed and put their phone down.  Some look and keep right on texting.   Be careful there is not a car in front of you when you try this.  And probably good idea to not have your wife along.

[ultrarider123]

So my questions is what is the difference with my talking to my wife sitting in the seat next to me in my car, than me talking to her on the phone via blue tooth with the phone in the center console?  I would actually think it would be more distracting with her in the car due to the tendency to want to look at some one talking to you to see expressions.  On the phone blue tooth, where you can not touch the phone, it would be easier to keep your eyes on the road.

Same can be said about being on the bike.  What is the difference between using the phone blue tooth or talking to your wife on the back seat via intercom?

I agree all the above can be and are distracting.  I just feel a passenger in the car or on bike talking is more distracting.

I don't know, Dave.  I've pulled up and passed many a car that had two or more folks or on the bike with two riders and when passing/pulling along side, I noticed they were talking or having a conversation but you couldn't tell it from their driving (there are exceptions).  However, you can always tell if the person is talking on a cell or texting in the way the vehicle is swerving/slowing or speeding up/etc. in that the operator is well past paying attention to the task at hand....driving.

I bet the OP of this thread had no idea his decision to stop riding would end up here....  

[helimd]

Quite to the contrary, Haird.  My reason in starting the thread was to see if any of you had seen or experienced the same things that, ultimately, cost my good friend his longtime girlfriend, motorcycle, and a great deal of money.  Not to mention the physical costs. 

I spent my life as a professional pilot.  In 20,000 hours of flying, I've had multiple engine failures, fixed wing and helicopters, crashed a few of each, and never feared what the outcome of my career choice could be.  I used to feel the same about riding motorcycles.  Not so sure anymore.  Just as flying stopped being fun, so has riding.  Just me, guys, not trying to influence anybody else.

Be safe, all.

[iski]

Helimd, the decision you made is right for you.  At some point, one way or another, we will all stop riding.

For me the biggest distraction was when we had small children or when they were babies. They can be VERY demanding & much more distracting than any cell phone.  Outlawing babies and kids from cars would seem to be the answer, but is not practical.  Lots of things distract us when we drive.  Have seen ladies painting fingernails and toenails, guys reading newspapers on the steering wheel, pets on the dash, coffee spills, & eating stuff is very common.  Saw a guy & a gal engaged in shall we say an act of oral gratification in the worst traffic on I-95 going through Miami at 70 mph. Much swerving around but no wreck.  All sorts of distractions, is part of driving.  Attention spans are short so even with hands at 10 & 2 with eyes on the road ahead, the mind may be a million miles away. No way to legislate that.

Some biker as well as other friends are no longer here because of distracted driving. It infuriates me, am thinking of 2 where cars just ran over 2 friends who were doing absolutely nothing risky or wrong - just riding as they should be. Both gone forever. One driver was reaching for something on the floorboard & hit my friend head on.  Tragic.

[2k]

This thread made me think of how obsessed with techno todays world is. As has been noted easily 50%, probably more, of travelers are on the phone, pad, etc. In "the old days" how many lines did you see at the corner pay-phone? I can't remember one. Just a thought

[helimd]

Back in the late 80's, early 90's, I flew EMS helicopters in Spokane, Washington.  Saw quite a bit of blood and guts during that time, but one of the most memorable was an vehicle accident on I-90 near Moses Lake.  Back in those days, we were told about the severity of the call and responded accordingly.  Anyway, we landed on the Interstate and saw the end results of one of the most incredible accidents that I had ever seen.  Some model of station wagon was upside down in the median, with the driver sitting a ways away from 3 sheet covered bodies.......little bodies.  Her children. 

The lady had lost control of the car after reaching across the seat to smack one of her 3 unsecured kids for causing a ruckus.  This lady was the only occupant with a belt on, the only survivor, and no doubt witnessed her kids being ejected to their untimely deaths.  One part of me was angry, the other part sad for what she had just gone through.  She probably still suffers, to this day.

I quit flying EMS shortly after that one.  I spent too much time taking those memories home with me.  Still have a hard time sleeping.  The point is, label me a quitter if you will, but this recent accident put me in a position to quit again.  Just like then, it's not so hard to give up. 

Safe journeys to all of you.  Just remember, blue side should always be up.  Be vigilant, my friends. 

[FLSTFI Dave]

I don't know, Dave.  I've pulled up and passed many a car that had two or more folks or on the bike with two riders and when passing/pulling along side, I noticed they were talking or having a conversation but you couldn't tell it from their driving (there are exceptions).  However, you can always tell if the person is talking on a cell or texting in the way the vehicle is swerving/slowing or speeding up/etc. in that the operator is well past paying attention to the task at hand....driving.

I bet the OP of this thread had no idea his decision to stop riding would end up here....

Ok you pull up next to me, with my wife in the car.  My phone is in center console, and I am talking on it blue tooth.  How do you know I am not talking to my wife?   

I am not talking about holding a phone and talking, or texting in any form.  I am talking about pure blue tooth talking.

[ultrarider123]

Ok you pull up next to me, with my wife in the car.  My phone is in center console, and I am talking on it blue tooth.  How do you know I am not talking to my wife?   

I am not talking about holding a phone and talking, or texting in any form.  I am talking about pure blue tooth talking.

Checkmate.....

[BigLew]

"For crying out loud eat a pizza!" I can't do anything about how you drive, interact with your wife or your kits. Or stop you from having sex riding down the rode. After 20 plus years on the road i feel qualified to say most people over estimate their skill set. Then there is the new crowd that thinks they own the road and have no manners or courteously when driving. But we can fix them so they will not use there phones while moving in a car. Wow guess what we would actually devote some time to paying attention to what we are doing. Just the fact we we have to have this conversation leads credence to how inconsiderate we have become. I'm really confused why a newbe choose this site and this venue to say good bye? Not going there.

BigLew

[helimd]

Not a "newbe", BigLew.  Watched the forum for years, just didn't feel I could take part until I owned a CVO.  Sorry if I ruffled some feathers.

[guppytrash]

I have had the same thoughts, but still choose to ride.
I think laws and escalation of penalties are effective.  Not 100% cure but effective.
The younger generation is the worst at cellphone driving, but from what I have seen much better than previous generations for drinking and driving.  JMO.
Now how long before this discussion starts with driving while high from weed?

It is too easy to get driving privileges in the USA.  We give a DL to anyone who can put an X where the signature goes.
Make the cost and training of obtaining a DL a financial and time investment.  Make it similar to getting a pilot rating.
Lets face it the cellphone cost more than their DL and they would be more devastated to lose the phone than the DL.

I hope some of our Europe riders will chime in.

[BigLew]

Guppy feel your pain. Not sure about making it cost more to get your permit to drive. But I agree we do nothing to actually train folks to drive. Then there is that whole lets enforce the current laws on the books. It appears cops are too busy with other things to enforce bad driving. It is really a sad state of affairs. If the current group of tree huggers doesnt get a grip on reality and learn that this life is a gift and it should be used for service to others they will be doomed. O wait that sounds to much like a Christian view. Just saying.

BigLew

[FlaHeatWave]

Over the years I'm sure that all of us have thought about hanging up the spurs... I know I have... Particularly last spring when we lost 3 riding Friends, 3 separate incidences, in the span of 3 months... 1 was taken out by an idiot in a cage, the other 2 were single bike...

Even though I agree with all here about the dangers of cellphone / texting / driving, that was not a factor in any of these...

Alcohol was a definite factor in one of the single bike Deaths...

One thing that I believe has benefited me over 40+ years of Street Riding, is anytime I swing a leg over a Motorcycle, whether it is 2:00 in the Afternoon or 2:00 in the morning, is a conscious acknowledgement of the activity I am going to undertake, and the possible consequences for myself and others... I think the same way getting behind the wheel, but not as much as I should...

IMHO Hanging up the spurs is a personal decision (if we're lucky enough to make it!) that I'm sure we all revisit from time to time... No Good, No Bad, it's just part of the Deal...

On the Techno side... "The Ball & Chain" and I upgraded the Head Unit in the truck early this year, to a Pioneer that interfaces with the Cellphone... Bluetooth for Music and Calls, Plug-in for Navigation and Talk to Text, works amazing! all voice activated! seamless, just touch 1 Button, "Take me to...Call whomever is in Contacts... Text whomever... "What is your message to...??" you say your message, then the voice reads your message back, then asks if you want to send... all you do is say send, then voice confirms message to; xxx Sent. when incoming text notification, just touch the same button, and the voice reads the Text to you.
Pretty slick!! Nowhere near as distracting as hunting the station on the old AM Radio, or changing the climate control or opening up the window for that matter... Much safer Technology for all of us becoming mainstream...

Added; It used to cost a good bit to get a DL, not so much in fees, in the early '70s it was like $400. / year Liability only to insure a teenage driver in Charleston, SC, all of which I had to pay out of my own pocket. And I knew if I had an accident / claim, I would be back to walking or riding a bicycle...   

 

 


     

[bigchuck]

I think every thing in the original post has been covered multiple times, except one. How much for the bike?

[Dan_Lockwood]

I forget what show it was on TV, but they had a young girl that had written to them about her dad.  He claimed to be able to multitask while driving.  The girl had been in the car when there were close calls with her dad driving and doing the phone thing.

The interviewed the dad and then had a road course setup with pop-up people and it was a more in-town setup with slower speeds etc.

He drove the course first without any phone and no distractions; he did good.

Then they gave him his phone and had him do his "normal" things as well as they were texting him during the driving test.  He literally ran over several people in the course, to his surprise.

Then they took hi phone away and had him on speaker with them.  All of the tests were done on live camera.  While they had him on speaker, they started to talk with him and then asked him to do simple math questions, 2x23 etc.  While he was thinking about the answers he also ran over pop-up people.

Bottom line was he was distracted big time when he had to engage his brain. 

He was one guy, but I'm sure all of us fall in there someplace.  Distractions are distractions.

I remember as a kid in the '50s in MI there was a campaign going around to not eat while driving.  I know that was decades ago, but how distracting is it to eat and drive.

I guess with everything today, in the camp with no phone activities that require hands.  Of course new cars with Carplay can send and read text messages to you and then you can press a button and dictate your reply and then say send.  That may be crossing the line with convenience available in a car.  If you phone boing boing you've got a text message, pull over to read it and reply, then get back into traffic.  Or just wait till you have the time to do it right.

I remember back in the late '80s getting off airplanes and there would be a line at every pay phone.  Now try to find a pay phone in an airport.  They may still have the row of booths, but they're resting, not phoning...

[helimd]

Hey, bigchuck, I wondered if anybody would even remember the first sentence in my post.  Thanks.  I'm trying to get $15K out of it.  Perfect condition, inferno orange, 7,000 miles, no damage, with all the CVO goodies.  Factory leather trunk and bags, 2 complete exhausts, cover, gold key, etc.  But the best part is that I will throw in my Handi-lift as part of the deal.  The bike alone is worth more than the asking price.  We'll see what winter brings.

[bigchuck]

Hey, bigchuck, I wondered if anybody would even remember the first sentence in my post.  Thanks.  I'm trying to get $15K out of it.  Perfect condition, inferno orange, 7,000 miles, no damage, with all the CVO goodies.  Factory leather trunk and bags, 2 complete exhausts, cover, gold key, etc.  But the best part is that I will throw in my Handi-lift as part of the deal.  The bike alone is worth more than the asking price.  We'll see what winter brings.

What state is the bike in?

[helimd]

Oklahoma

[spydglide]

It's not just the addition of phones & texting, but other factors such as increased numbers of vehicles and driving attitudes that scare me.  Also, getting hit  within the past few years will refresh the danger/pain/etc. relative to the pleasure/satisfaction, etc. that I experience riding my scooters.  Still ride, but not as frequent.  And the close calls are more frequent.  Never imagined it would get this bad, but times, they are a changing.  har!  spyder

[FLSTFI Dave]

"For crying out loud eat a pizza!" I can't do anything about how you drive, interact with your wife or your kits. Or stop you from having sex riding down the rode. After 20 plus years on the road i feel qualified to say most people over estimate their skill set. Then there is the new crowd that thinks they own the road and have no manners or courteously when driving. But we can fix them so they will not use there phones while moving in a car. Wow guess what we would actually devote some time to paying attention to what we are doing. Just the fact we we have to have this conversation leads credence to how inconsiderate we have become. I'm really confused why a newbe choose this site and this venue to say good bye? Not going there.

BigLew

Fully agree most over estimate their skill set.  I thought I knew how to handle a High performance sports car.  Boy was I humbled when I took a professional high performance driving class.  I have taken three more since, and skills have greatly improved, and I have room to learn and improve.

I have done the same with a motorcycle.  I take the advanced rider course every couple years, ride like a pro and have taken a high performance riding.  Still have lots to learn.

[bigsixman]

Back in the late 80's, early 90's, I flew EMS helicopters in Spokane, Washington.  Saw quite a bit of blood and guts during that time, but one of the most memorable was an vehicle accident on I-90 near Moses Lake.  Back in those days, we were told about the severity of the call and responded accordingly.  Anyway, we landed on the Interstate and saw the end results of one of the most incredible accidents that I had ever seen.  Some model of station wagon was upside down in the median, with the driver sitting a ways away from 3 sheet covered bodies.......little bodies.  Her children. 

The lady had lost control of the car after reaching across the seat to smack one of her 3 unsecured kids for causing a ruckus.  This lady was the only occupant with a belt on, the only survivor, and no doubt witnessed her kids being ejected to their untimely deaths.  One part of me was angry, the other part sad for what she had just gone through.  She probably still suffers, to this day.

I can only imagine what you and your coworkers came across doing your job, I thank all the people that can do that type of work.

I quit flying EMS shortly after that one.  I spent too much time taking those memories home with me.  Still have a hard time sleeping.  The point is, label me a quitter if you will, but this recent accident put me in a position to quit again.  Just like then, it's not so hard to give up. 

Safe journeys to all of you.  Just remember, blue side should always be up.  Be vigilant, my friends.

[Glide-man]

maybe a little off topic. I have seen a driver on the highway eating a bowl of cereal with a spoon in one hand , the bowl in another.. A woman reading a paperback book driving on the highway. A woman with a lit cigarette in one hand putting on lip stick with the other, also on the highway.. we can't fine them into being responsible. Maybe the technology of automation driving is the answer.  I spend half the time on a ride or driving in a car directing them to stay in their own lane and not crossing the center line.. Sure ruins the ride...

[2k]

I have been watching this thread from afar, so here's my thoughts. NOBODY is going to make me stop riding! I will stop when my age/health will no longer allow me. I am being more careful now, by watching for the idiots I am forced to share the road with......but that's life. After riding on the street as a licensed driver for 55+ years......it is in my blood. And just a side note, I will not stop crossing the road either. Just my .02

[wtfdskin]

I have been watching this thread from afar, so here's my thoughts. NOBODY is going to make me stop riding! I will stop when my age/health will no longer allow me. I am being more careful now, by watching for the idiots I am forced to share the road with......but that's life. After riding on the street as a licensed driver for 55+ years......it is in my blood. And just a side note, I will not stop crossing the road either. Just my .02

Amen Brother

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[BigLew]

You go Jimmy!!

BigLew

[grayghost731]

Now....    We  are  just  bitching to bitch!       We  are in America!     It  is  NOT  a crime to be STUPID!   

We  all  ride ,  so  even  in our vehicles we cautious about how we are driving.   we  are the minority!

[68 XLCH]

I've seen a lot of tragic things from Nam, the middle east, and right here in the USA.

Motorcyclists run into head on by an old man on going the wrong way on a divided 4 lane, by the time we got there (flying a medical helicopter) the blood had actually congealed on the road surface, one died, last i knew the other we flew lived.

A dozen country road, single vehicle accidents, hitting a pine tree, some alive, some dead.

Car accidents with a family returning from Disney World, two little ones in the car, tragic

When you see this stuff, you can relate to your own children, parents spouse etc. it works on you.

But some of the above were not doing anything wrong, some were killed by some other dumb A** not paying attention or doing something they shouldn't have been like texting, talking on a phone, eating, putting on lipstick, brushing their hair what ever.

The stuff they do is never going to stop, probably just get worse.

I factor some of this into my rides.  Being retired, i can choose the time of day the route etc.  Remaining situation-ally aware of what is going on around me.

But all it takes is one sorry A** coming the other way at the wrong time.

Tomorrow, full sun, 50 degrees, light winds, and i will have my leather on, including chaps and cruising down the road, keeping an eye out, but enjoying the ride.

[spydglide]

I've seen a lot of tragic things from Nam, the middle east, and right here in the USA.

Motorcyclists run into head on by an old man on going the wrong way on a divided 4 lane, by the time we got there (flying a medical helicopter) the blood had actually congealed on the road surface, one died, last i knew the other we flew lived.

A dozen country road, single vehicle accidents, hitting a pine tree, some alive, some dead.

Car accidents with a family returning from Disney World, two little ones in the car, tragic

When you see this stuff, you can relate to your own children, parents spouse etc. it works on you.

But some of the above were not doing anything wrong, some were killed by some other dumb A** not paying attention or doing something they shouldn't have been like texting, talking on a phone, eating, putting on lipstick, brushing their hair what ever.

The stuff they do is never going to stop, probably just get worse.

I factor some of this into my rides.  Being retired, i can choose the time of day the route etc.  Remaining situation-ally aware of what is going on around me.

But all it takes is one sorry A** coming the other way at the wrong time.

Tomorrow, full sun, 50 degrees, light winds, and i will have my leather on, including chaps and cruising down the road, keeping an eye out, but enjoying the ride.

  Well said !!  Enjoy your ride.  spyder