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[Keats]

There has been lot of discussion on this board about good and bad dealers, I just wanted to know what the membership thought was the 3 most important qualities that you look for in a dealer.

Thought this would be interesting to see from the memberships point of view.

lowest pricing?
competitive pricing?
local support of charity?
best techs?
access to service techs?
hours of operation?
inventory availability?
courteous staff?
special discounts for loyalty?
these are just a few I thought of, let us know what you think.

[ice6900]

how about

honesty, sales staff r generally ok, but less bullchit from SM and techs
workshop time in a reasonable time span ( not we can fit u in in 6weeks)
availability of spares in a reasonable time span ( not we can fit u in in 6weeks)

[UFO_HOG]

Support their H.O.G. Group

Fair Pricing (My dealer marks up accessories from cataloge price)

Competent repair techs

Open 7 days a week (Never understood this one, catch up to the rest of the world)

[SPIDERMAN]

There has been lot of discussion on this board about good and bad dealers, I just wanted to know what the membership thought was the 3 most important qualities that you look for in a dealer.

Thought this would be interesting to see from the memberships point of view.

lowest pricing?
competitive pricing?
local support of charity?
best techs?
access to service techs?
hours of operation?
inventory availability?
courteous staff?
special discounts for loyalty?
these are just a few I thought of, let us know what you think.

Sorry, but your post above is like one of those H-D surveys. Do you own a dealership ? Even a bad dealership could say they have good inventory, a courteous sales staff, excellent hours of operation, any businessman with a accountant donates to charity andaccess to service techs and the discount thing amounts to these  "sales events" So lets toss your suggestions out the window and start with

A) Trained and knowledgeable tech and sales staff capable of answering customers questions
B) Experienced managerial staff with hands on management style to ensure that C is supported
C) Get it right the first time service work
D) Hassle free warranty claim support- -the dealership should have a person designated as a warranty specialists with an open relationship with the MoCo
E) Pricing ? It's up to the dealer through trial and error to see what gains my business. Right now, 20% off on all parts and accessories is what works, but I have to go on-line to get that and that involves shipping, so I'd be open to say 15% if I could get it from my nearest dealer.  New vehicle pricing needs to be whatever it takes to move the product. I'd suggest looking at what the auto industry is doing ie: price reductions and low or no interest financing.
I couldn't possibly care less what they do as regards H.O.G. While the many many HOG members are super people, my experience as a whole is that most HOG chapters become just another political opportunity for the elected officers. Sorry if that offends, but it's been the same on both coasts for me. Great members and well meaning folks in the leadership roles who get caught up in the politics of running their chapters. And yes as I've posted in the past, every HOG chapter also has a poseur or two who carry the patch thing to the extreme and pretend they're outlaws.

Of course maybe H-D doesn't need to change anything. Maybe they're weathering this recession because we're all upper income customers and have been trained to have low expectations. Maybe we're to blame. Maybe we've trained the dealers that we're all a bunch of sheep to be shorn or cows to be milked. Maybe we're our own worst enemies because even though we complain on forums like this, we still continue to support the same dealers we complain about. You tell me

B B

[Keats]

Wow Brian,

that was a mouthful.

no bad techs
no bad sales person
no bad owners/managers
and no pretend 1%er's

Got it!

and NO I am not a dealer,  just a member starting a conversation.

[SPIDERMAN]

Wow Brian,

that was a mouthful.

no bad techs
no bad sales person
no bad owners/managers
and no pretend 1%er's

Got it!

and NO I am not a dealer,  just a member starting a conversation.

A lot of us have had conversations at gatherings about how sometimes a post comes off in a far different vein than what the poster intended. I apologize if it appeared I was jumping on you. My post wasn't about you personally so much as the issue of how a question is asked can box in the ability of the person answering it to convey what they want to say. Didn't mean to be offensive, but it's a known fact that I am not shy about speaking my mind. We've had a couple dealers pop up on the site recently and I've just taken to saying that -- sometimes when I know better. Again, sorry if I offended.

BUT,
       The rest of my post is how I feel. Dealers need to invest in their people since you and I and every other customer spends the majority of our time at a dealership intefacing with the people who work there. The WALMART model just won't work for an H-D dealership. Most of us know more about our motorcycles than the cars we drive. I know I'm out in dreamland with my wishlist, but you asked.

B B

[amigo Jorge]

Fair price in new bikes, discount on items and excellent service!!

[Fired00d]

A lot of us have had conversations at gatherings about how sometimes a post comes off in a far different vein than what the poster intended. I apologize if it appeared I was jumping on you. My post wasn't about you personally so much as the issue of how a question is asked can box in the ability of the person answering it to convey what they want to say. Didn't mean to be offensive, but it's a known fact that I am not shy about speaking my mind. We've had a couple dealers pop up on the site recently and I've just taken to saying that -- sometimes when I know better. Again, sorry if I offended.

BUT,
       The rest of my post is how I feel. Dealers need to invest in their people since you and I and every other customer spends the majority of our time at a dealership intefacing with the people who work there. The WALMART model just won't work for an H-D dealership. Most of us know more about our motorcycles than the cars we drive. I know I'm out in dreamland with my wishlist, but you asked.

B B

I often see a lot of turnover of employees at dealerships and was just wondering if it's associated w/the pay scale of those employees. I know when I first started back riding and bought a H-D I had dreamed about working at a dealership after I retired just to be around bikes/bikers. Now that I think about it I wonder if what we are seeing is directly associated to the pay these people are receiving (especially in the youth of todays mindset that will leave a job every week for a nickel more an hour).

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Gecko]

1. People who know more about what they sell and service than I do.  I shouldn't have to tell the service manager about the long list of problems these bikes have - but I had to.

2. A service department that has any interest in what they are doing.  It has been a little over two weeks since I dropped mine off at the appointed time for the gasket and ACR recall.  Having heard nothing from them since then, I called this morning.  "Na, haven't gotten around to it yet...didn't know you were in a big hurry for it". 

3. People who don't think they are doing you a favor selling or ordering you things, who don't view open houses as another reason you somehow owe them loyalty because of a hotdog and a Coke, and who don't try to mask what has become a mediocre product with "lifestyle" and "heritage".

[Hoist!]

HeHe!!! No comment!!! STD!!!

Hoist!

[Keats]

A lot of us have had conversations at gatherings about how sometimes a post comes off in a far different vein than what the poster intended. I apologize if it appeared I was jumping on you. My post wasn't about you personally so much as the issue of how a question is asked can box in the ability of the person answering it to convey what they want to say. Didn't mean to be offensive, but it's a known fact that I am not shy about speaking my mind. We've had a couple dealers pop up on the site recently and I've just taken to saying that -- sometimes when I know better. Again, sorry if I offended.

BUT,
       The rest of my post is how I feel. Dealers need to invest in their people since you and I and every other customer spends the majority of our time at a dealership intefacing with the people who work there. The WALMART model just won't work for an H-D dealership. Most of us know more about our motorcycles than the cars we drive. I know I'm out in dreamland with my wishlist, but you asked.

B B

No offense taken Brian, (I am not easily offended)
I just put some responses in perspective sometimes.

I agree with you,
I think that Dealer principles should be directly involved with day to day business to understand
what is really going on in their business.

Getting The right people to work in any business has and is a huge challenge for all businesses.
Managing the human element and keeping the right ones is the key for an efficient operation.
I asked and you responded and that is fair ground.
I think that there is a great disparity between dealers in different geographical areas.
Some members would settle for a dealer that just sold them bikes at list price, while others want much more
from their dealer.
That is why I was looking for the input of the membership.

[Keats]

HeHe!!! No comment!!! STD!!!

Hoist!

Thanks Howie

[IronButt]

1. A quality motorcycle that when you purchase the Top of the line model
 you don’t have to spend another $10,000 rebuilding the suspention, brakes, stereo and engine so you can just keep up with a 1200 sportster!
2. An engine that doesn’t burn your azz in  between slipping cylinder sleeves, leaking gaskets and slipping flywheels that causes pinion shaft run out!
3. A product made in America,,,, lets not get greedy if they would do the first 2 at least we could ride our illusion.


you asked!

[RedDevil]

1. A quality motorcycle that when you purchase the Top of the line model
 you don’t have to spend another $10,000 rebuilding the suspention, brakes, stereo and engine so you can just keep up with a 1200 sportster!
2. An engine that doesn’t burn your azz in  between slipping cylinder sleeves, leaking gaskets and slipping flywheels that causes pinion shaft run out!
3. A product made in America,,,, lets not get greedy if they would do the first 2 at least we could ride our illusion.


you asked!

That's what you'd expect from the MoCo.  The dealer has no control, other than feedback on issues/problems, over what the MoCo puts out. 

   

[FLSTFI Dave]

I would have to say I get pretty much what I expect of a dealership from my dealership.  It is a new dealership, opend in late 2004.

1) Good inventory of bikes, parts and Motorclothes
2) Sales staff in all areas knowledgeable about what they are selling and very friendly and courtious.
3) Very good service dept, with good techs and apointments and timely service.
4) Open 7 days a week
5) Special hours a couple times a year for valued customers, with sales only for them
6) Owner very involved and approchable.
7) very supportive of HOG chapter
Concerts on most week ends with food and beer sales

The list goes on.  I do have a good dealer.  I got fair prices on both bikes and the SERG is coming in at MSRP.  I get a 10% military discount on everything except the actual bikes.  Owner is having a Christmas party for every one who has bought two or more bikes from him.  Owner is providing the music, the food and beer, and every thing in store except bikes will be 20 to 30% off during this party.


Pretty easy to see how he move up to largest volume dealer in TN in just four years.  I believe he is now top ten in volume in the USA.

[SBB]

I have a question.

Everyone wants their Harley dealer to be like the "ol" days when the owner was also the sales person and you could stand back there when the mechanic (mechanic, not service tech) worked on your bike.
Everyone wants their dealer the way it use to be.
So what's up with the dealer being open on Sunday?
Yes, it's another day to count sales but why.
We want things like they use to be, unless it's more convenient to serve our needs then forget the "ol" days.
What's next, Chick Filet open on Sunday also?

Just wondering?

 

[guppytrash]

Responsibility:  MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO NOT SCRATCH OR DENT MY BIKE.  Use the fender and tank covers.

Accountability:  Mistakes happen even with every effort to avoid, but you dam* well better be responsible for any mistakes made.
I don't expect to fix my CVO paint with a maaco paint repair, I want a factory painted replacement.  I don't want it BUFFED OUT!

Honesty:  If you charge me for a service I expect to receive what I payed for.  If I pay for a $50 chrome head bolt cover from HD I don't expect the dealer to try and slip me a 99cent Hot Topper.  

[Twolanerider]

I have a question.

Everyone wants their Harley dealer to be like the "ol" days when the owner was also the sales person and you could stand back there when the mechanic (mechanic, not service tech) worked on your bike.
Everyone wants their dealer the way it use to be.
So what's up with the dealer being open on Sunday?
Yes, it's another day to count sales but why.
We want things like they use to be, unless it's more convenient to serve our needs then forget the "ol" days.
What's next, Chick Filet open on Sunday also?

Just wondering?

 

I could actually care less about old days, new days, tomorrows or whenevers.  The only things I'd ask of any dealership, whether it be an old shop with a few guys and a greasy parts counter or a new boutique inspired dealership, is efficient competence delivered openly and fairly.  Would ask only that from the MoCo itself.  In fact from any business or oganization I dealt with.

Some dealerships obviously manage this quite well (or at least well enough).  What's surprising is the number that don't though.  Those that still think an oil change can be rung up to a couple hundred bucks or more and have to be scheduled out two weeks in advance.  Those that can't manage a repair correctly the first time (repetitively).  Those that think it's our privilege to buy from them rather than it being their privilege to sell to us.

So....  I don't ask for much.

[SPIDERMAN]

I could actually care less about old days, new days, tomorrows or whenevers.  The only things I'd ask of any dealership, whether it be an old shop with a few guys and a greasy parts counter or a new boutique inspired dealership, is efficient competence delivered openly and fairly.  Would ask only that from the MoCo itself.  In fact from any business or oganization I dealt with.

Some dealerships obviously manage this quite well (or at least well enough).  What's surprising is the number that don't though.  Those that still think an oil change can be rung up to a couple hundred bucks or more and have to be scheduled out two weeks in advance.  Those that can't manage a repair correctly the first time (repetitively).  Those that think it's our privilege to buy from them rather than it being their privilege to sell to us.

So....  I don't ask for much.

Great minds think alike

Super post Don

B B

[BIGDOG]

I think we have unknowingly set the standard low for dealers by accepting a motorcycle that is in need of thousands of dollars in up grades to compete with other manufacturers. The public flocks to the dealership to buy t shirts , mugs , dog toy's , clocks and anything else HD puts there logo on.The dealership has become a fashion boutique , lattie stand not a bike shop. You are a group of bike riders that have the love of motorcycles but if you look at the majority of those in the dealership they are HD item collectors, there because it is trendy right now.
The other issue is you want discounts , open 7 day's a week , top notch techs ,Tones of inventory ,people that know all the intricacies of every model and year of bike that Harley has made ,at what you think is a fair price .How can any business fullfill that expectation, they can't. All we can really ask for is honesty and fairness in our dealings, If you don't get that go top a deferant shop! Just my humble opinion, I have worked both sides of the fence and if you haven't I strongly suggest you try dealing with the public . It will give you a new out look on the saying the customer is always right.

[oj greene]

One word...Good old fashioned honesty!
OJ

[Twolanerider]

The other issue is you want discounts , open 7 day's a week , top notch techs ,Tones of inventory ,people that know all the intricacies of every model and year of bike that Harley has made ,at what you think is a fair price .How can any business fullfill that expectation, they can't.

I really don't ask for all that.  Close on Sundays.  No problem.  Make a profit?  That's fine.  I want you close by for my benefit so I pay for that.  I don't expect parts services to know what I want or need.  I make changes.  It's up to me to know what I want.  Can't expect them to know what fits what when I've altered the basic "what."  Really, just efficient competetence without too common error and the ability and willingness to have simple, direct up-front discussions about things that might arise.  That's it.  That's all I ask. 

Some do that.  That's great.  But too many do not. 

[SPIDERMAN]

I think we have unknowingly set the standard low for dealers by accepting a motorcycle that is in need of thousands of dollars in up grades to compete with other manufacturers. The public flocks to the dealership to buy t shirts , mugs , dog toy's , clocks and anything else HD puts there logo on.The dealership has become a fashion boutique , lattie stand not a bike shop. You are a group of bike riders that have the love of motorcycles but if you look at the majority of those in the dealership they are HD item collectors, there because it is trendy right now.
The other issue is you want discounts , open 7 day's a week , top notch techs ,Tones of inventory ,people that know all the intricacies of every model and year of bike that Harley has made ,at what you think is a fair price .How can any business fullfill that expectation, they can't. All we can really ask for is honesty and fairness in our dealings, If you don't get that go top a deferant shop! Just my humble opinion, I have worked both sides of the fence and if you haven't I strongly suggest you try dealing with the public . It will give you a new out look on the saying the customer is always right.

BIGDOG
          I agree in that this is a bed we've made for ourselves, but the thing is, up until H-D put the 110 motor in the CVO's you rarely ever heard of engine issues from folks who leave their rides stock. And it appears that issue has been resolved.  I am not yanking anyone's chain when I say if I could pony up the scratch to buy a 2009 Screamin Eagle Road Glide, I would leave it stock. Coming from a guy with $45k tied up in a standard issue 07 Road Glide, I know that's saying a mouthful, but I'm serious. I've reached a point where I honestlye feel that all of these upgrades and mods are because we want our rides to be something they're not. Lemme put it this way. Would you go out and buy a Caddy Deville and then tear the suspension and brakes apart , hot rod the motor because you wanted it to perform like a Ferarri ? A FD H-D is the Cadillac of motorcycles in that is built to be a big bulky cushy motorcycle. "Prescence" I believe is a word that gets kicked around H-D's design studios when speaking of the FD lineup. Road King, King of the Road, all denote prescence. Conversely, a sportbike would be described in terms relative to performance. It's not an apples for apples comparison. We want our FD CVO bikes to be something they were never designed nor manufactured to be.
       I find nothing in the remained of your post to disagree with. You are dead on in that we created the monster and now we don't know what to do with it.

B B  

[MJZ]

A tube of Vaseline would be a nice touch when you go to pick up a bike from service.

Seriously, I have the misfortune to have one of those really chit dealers here in Memphis. Bike salesmen have very little knowledge of their product, when it comes to CVO's, they are especially ignorant. Plus my biggest problem is very seldom is anything serviced correctly the first time and for that inept service the billing hours are padded out the a$$. There is a good dealer within 20 miles but their facility is too small. They were building a new facility but it seems the economy has bitten them on the butt and scheduled ground breaking was supposed to be in September, didn't happen.

[screem]

The dealerships in my area have taken a page from the auto sales industry. They give you an inflated price, you say no to the deal. then they have you tell them what it is going to take to get the deal done today, they write down your number have you intial it , then leave you sit like a child or a moron while they supposedly try to get theit sales manager to agree with the deal, then return with a number somewhere in the middle....still not at MSRP ...you say forget it....they plead with you wait, that they will go back an try harder.Mean while they want you test ride one...no thanx , I know what they ride like....sit somemore, ...they return grinning...I got you what you wanted...Ok then , lets git er done...but wait the number is still 1500 to 2000 higher. he then explains that there is Doc prep costs, Frieght, Set up. and whatever else they can tack on.
   Now back to the parts dept...several semi long haired guys with tattoo's (gee they must be real bikers) . Try to ask them for a basic simple parts order...they sure seem confident in their selection of your parts and they are only too happy share their vast knowledge of the HD parts they sell....ride back home only to find out that once again these guys got it wrong...Return next week to exchange the incorrect parts and you ask for the parts man that helped you, only to find out that he no longer works there....being part of the HD dealership lifestyle just dont pay the bills so the poor schmo has to go get a job that pays elsewhere.
   Ah now over to the service side of the operation...A pleasant service writer greets...as you try to explain your issue with your bike, they tune out an stop listening half way through your disricption of your problem, because they already know what your problem is...again their vast knowledge an superior intellect shines through...they set the appointment and schedule your bike to return at an appointed time an date....you return in hopes of having your bike fixed properly and safely.......but oh no....they give your $30,000+  to one of MMI newly minted techs...he pushes your bike in and begins to do his thing...less than 50/50 he will actually fix your bike right the first time...you return to pick up bike...it is freshly washed and has a print out of the repairs...jump on the bike to find...not only not fixed, but maybe worse...the poor dumb B@#@D behind the service counter apoligizes and says can you leave it again...now they will have there #1 tech take a crack at it
    I wont even get in to the clothing dept as I have limited experience in that dept...other than seeing a constant turn over of good looking gals that work in the dept.
    As far as being open on sundays...close it down as far as I am concerned...if you go to a dealership on a sunday only the newest staff is on duty in a limited capacity any ways
 Somebody else mentioned the HOG groups already...and ditto for me...a shiny bunch of dimwits at best, playing outlaw in front of the dealership on Saturday morning, drinking coffee and eating doughnuts with their complete wardrobe of OLP clothing wear on ...
    Old days an old ways worked much better....when the owner knew you by name and was concerned if you had an issue...as he wanted your repeat business

[BIGDOG]

BIGDOG
          I agree in that this is a bed we've made for ourselves, but the thing is, up until H-D put the 110 motor in the CVO's you rarely ever heard of engine issues from folks who leave their rides stock. And it appears that issue has been resolved.  I am not yanking anyone's chain when I say if I could pony up the scratch to buy a 2009 Screamin Eagle Road Glide, I would leave it stock. Coming from a guy with $45k tied up in a standard issue 07 Road Glide, I know that's saying a mouthful, but I'm serious. I've reached a point where I honestlye feel that all of these upgrades and mods are because we want our rides to be something they're not. Lemme put it this way. Would you go out and buy a Caddy Deville and then tear the suspension and brakes apart , hot rod the motor because you wanted it to perform like a Ferarri ? A FD H-D is the Cadillac of motorcycles in that is built to be a big bulky cushy motorcycle. "Prescence" I believe is a word that gets kicked around H-D's design studios when speaking of the FD lineup. Road King, King of the Road, all denote prescence. Conversely, a sportbike would be described in terms relative to performance. It's not an apples for apples comparison. We want our FD CVO bikes to be something they were never designed nor manufactured to be.
       I find nothing in the remained of your post to disagree with. You are dead on in that we created the monster and now we don't know what to do with it.

B B  

I conker my good man. If we were to leave every thing stock we would have a pretty good bike. The problem is we want more from a manufacturer who knows how to rake our money in. If the true motorcycle enthusiast would take a hard look ,they are buying into an image no more no less. If honesty was to prevail Harley would be towards the bottom of the list of bikes we want to ride. They are technically inferior to most other manufacturers . Harley is first and formost a sales organization and secondly a motorcycle manufacturer. They have spent millions on knowing how to make us want there image and it has worked well.  Some time take a day and just test drive some of the other bikes that are out there. BMW ,Honda ,Yamaha ,Even Victory, Take them out and be honest to your self about what you find. I don't care if you tell the rest of the world how bad they are but be honest to your self try not to worry about your image, I am sure you will be surprised they truly are great bikes.
 Twolanerider and oj greene I absolutely agree with you up front and HONEST that is the way it should be and if not turn around and go somewhere else.I have been lucky to find a HD dealer that is just that and I will run my shop with that same philosophy. Life is to short to treat people in any other way, and karma can truly be a bitch.

[comfortablynumb]

I'm in trouble now.I work very hard and end up spending more time that I care to away from the family. I put my money down on my chosen form of leisure/wax for my mental health and what I expect is to only visit the dealership when I want to visit or BS, (they're a good bunch of guys), or when I need maintenance that is beyond my capabilities,(almost everything). Reading this post I think I'm lucky overall to be involved with the group I do. I chose to buy an inferior product again,(not the dealers fault);when the manufacturer doesn't have or can't supply the "fix", (not the dealers fault); Knowing that I personally couldn't deal with pi$$ed off people coming in all too often to bitc$ about one thing or another, lets me take an extra breath before bellowing. The  dealer has been relatively honest, the service has been acceptable (so far), and most of the guys know me by name, or at the very least a shout hello across the store. Making plans for my product enhancement so this entire post could quickly hit the toilet, but for now, it's good.

[BLM777]

I conker my good man. If we were to leave every thing stock we would have a pretty good bike. The problem is we want more from a manufacturer who knows how to rake our money in. If the true motorcycle enthusiast would take a hard look ,they are buying into an image no more no less. If honesty was to prevail Harley would be towards the bottom of the list of bikes we want to ride. They are technically inferior to most other manufacturers . Harley is first and formost a sales organization and secondly a motorcycle manufacturer. They have spent millions on knowing how to make us want there image and it has worked well.  Some time take a day and just test drive some of the other bikes that are out there. BMW ,Honda ,Yamaha ,Even Victory, Take them out and be honest to your self about what you find. I don't care if you tell the rest of the world how bad they are but be honest to your self try not to worry about your image, I am sure you will be surprised they truly are great bikes.
 Twolanerider and oj greene I absolutely agree with you up front and HONEST that is the way it should be and if not turn around and go somewhere else.I have been lucky to find a HD dealer that is just that and I will run my shop with that same philosophy. Life is to short to treat people in any other way, and karma can truly be a bitch.

Got to wonder why you'd even take the time to comment on such an inferior product and company.  With regard to the brands mention, I frequently have the opportunity to ride the "off" brands at the HD Dealer where they were TRADED IN. With the exception of the BMW, which has good workmanship and finish, but doesn't fit anyone other than a medium size gal, my experience is Jap junk and HD wannabe startups. 

Thankfully, your perception of an American icon in manufacturing and marketing is not shared by the majority.  Check your NADA book on percentage of purchase residual values 1 thru 5 years out, not to mention the nostalgic value that the older models continually bring.

 

[BIGDOG]

Thats Funny. Thanks you opinion is so noted.