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CVO Technical => Milwaukee-Eight => Topic started by: Terry60 on May 06, 2020, 03:40:39 PM

Title: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 06, 2020, 03:40:39 PM
Got about .5 miles from home and engine started making a very bad tapping/ knocking noise, had 502 miles on it and at 543.5 starting


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: HD Street Performance on May 06, 2020, 05:06:08 PM
Could be a broken rocker shaft. Could be a bad lifter. Take it to the dealer, warranty will cover this
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 06, 2020, 07:26:52 PM
Could be a broken rocker shaft. Could be a bad lifter. Take it to the dealer, warranty will cover this
I did and they heard it several times and then let it run for awhile and said it went away,yesterday the said it could be a lifter and today they are saying it probably had air in the lifter,
$50000 for this Tri glide and they are telling me they just can’t put parts into it and not sure what the problem was and that it’s not doing it now


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: mark on May 06, 2020, 08:31:30 PM
I did and they heard it several times and then let it run for awhile and said it went away,yesterday the said it could be a lifter and today they are saying it probably had air in the lifter,
$50000 for this Tri glide and they are telling me they just can’t put parts into it and not sure what the problem was and that it’s not doing it now


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Welcome to the wonderful world of HD customer service. 
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 06, 2020, 08:33:23 PM
This was at the dealership where I bought it


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 06, 2020, 08:34:50 PM
I have a video of what it was doing , just can’t get it to post


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Cat Eye on May 06, 2020, 09:20:54 PM
I did and they heard it several times and then let it run for awhile and said it went away,yesterday the said it could be a lifter and today they are saying it probably had air in the lifter,
$50000 for this Tri glide and they are telling me they just can’t put parts into it and not sure what the problem was and that it’s not doing it now


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Sorry to hear this....if that’s the case, air is getting into the lifters, then I would ask/expect them to fix it.

Personally, I have never heard of lifter bleeding down after the engine has been running for awhile and I would be very interested in listening to the mechanic explain how this could happen. 

Good Luck and let us known how you make out. 
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: grc on May 07, 2020, 07:27:02 AM

So the engine ran normally when you started it up, ran normally for a half mile, and then starting knocking.  Lifters don't usually leak down while they are running, if they leak down you would hear it at start-up.  I suppose a piece of trash in the oil could have plugged the lifter temporarily, OR a valve could have been sticking open, or a lot of other things.  Call Harley-Davidson, tell them what happened and what the dealer blew you off with, then play your video (audio) for them, let them know you are not happy.

Jerry
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Mofo67 on May 07, 2020, 09:40:32 AM
Having a similar issue with the 131 kit on my CVO SG. At about 550 miles on the motor I pulled in the garage and thought it sounded loud. A couple days later road it about 3 miles to get heat in the motor to change the oil. Pulled in the garage and it was knocking loud.
Contacted the dealer, they brought me a loaner and picked up my bike. HD ask for a lot of test to be ran and of now diagnosed that the front 2 lifters are bad. It goes on the lift at 1:00 for the dealer to remove the lifters and inspect the motor for additional damage.
At start up it sounded 100% normal, about 30 seconds you could hear it get louder. At about a minute it was very loud.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: ultrafxr on May 07, 2020, 01:57:19 PM
Friend has 2019 Road King and after just a few 000 miles it started making tapping noise - but on startup which is more typical of bad lifter.  Dealer kept it overnight and heard it, consulted with mother Harley who had them run several diagnostic procedures which were of no avail but would not authorize them to remove and inspect the lifters.  Finally after b**ching and complaining he and the service manager finally got mother Harley to take action . . . and the action they authorized was total complete disassembly of the motor.  WTF.  And yes the final determination was a bad lifter.  You just can't make this chit up.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 06:20:31 PM
So the engine ran normally when you started it up, ran normally for a half mile, and then starting knocking.  Lifters don't usually leak down while they are running, if they leak down you would hear it at start-up.  I suppose a piece of trash in the oil could have plugged the lifter temporarily, OR a valve could have been sticking open, or a lot of other things.  Call Harley-Davidson, tell them what happened and what the dealer blew you off with, then play your video (audio) for them, let them know you are not happy.

Jerry
I rode the bike for 42.5 miles and then this started


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 06:25:13 PM
I rode the bike for 42.5 miles and then this started


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Is there no way I can post the video on what the bike sounds like after riding it for 42.5 miles


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Twolanerider on May 07, 2020, 06:39:34 PM
Is there no way I can post the video on what the bike sounds like after riding it for 42.5 miles


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Not here directly.  Post it to Youtube or some other hosting site than link it here.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 06:59:21 PM
Is there no way I can post the video on what the bike sounds like after riding it for 42.5 miles


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https://youtu.be/3So7NQP09EE


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:00:52 PM
https://youtu.be/3So7NQP09EE


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Follow the you tube link to hear my engine running and the sound it’s making


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Cat Eye on May 07, 2020, 07:13:43 PM
That’s not tic....that a jack hammer! 
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:14:08 PM
That’s not tic....that a jack hammer!
Yep!


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:20:13 PM
That’s not tic....that a jack hammer!
That’s my new 2020 cvo Tri glide with only 544 miles on it and $50k later


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: iski on May 07, 2020, 07:27:52 PM
Sounds low on oil, but that's not the problem.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:29:31 PM
Sounds low on oil, but that's not the problem.
Oil level was good


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:32:14 PM
Oil level was good


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Just got off the phone with the dealership and they said H-D has agreed to change the front two lifts and the dealership wants me to go ahead and do the 1000 fluid change an me pay for the fluid change


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: TN on May 07, 2020, 07:34:16 PM
That’s my new 2020 cvo Tri glide with only 544 miles on it and $50k later


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Wow, I wouldn't even attempt to ride it while making noise like that. Keep us apprised and good luck getting it sorted out.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:37:11 PM
Wow, I wouldn't even attempt to ride it while making noise like that. Keep us apprised and good luck getting it sorted out.
Am not going to accept back if it’s still making that noise, they are going to change the front two lifters , but am not paying for a 1000 mile fluid change at 544 miles


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: iski on May 07, 2020, 07:37:24 PM
Just got off the phone with the dealership and they said H-D has agreed to change the front two lifts and the dealership wants me to go ahead and do the 1000 fluid change an me pay for the fluid change


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 :2vrolijk_21:
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Twolanerider on May 07, 2020, 07:41:35 PM
Wow, I wouldn't even attempt to ride it while making noise like that. Keep us apprised and good luck getting it sorted out.


Or just the opposite Phil.  If they'd blown me off for service initially I'd take the LONG way home right then; until it blew up.  Then they'd have something to fix they could find and would have to admit. 
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:45:49 PM

Or just the opposite Phil.  If they'd blown me off for service initially I'd take the LONG way home right then; until it blew up.  Then they'd have something to fix they could find and would have to admit.
I told them if it problem came back I would ride the hell out of it , until it blew up and then they would have to replace the motor, their reply was “ that’s what I would do to and it only cost me $50 for a new motor “
Now isn’t that some BS!!!


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:47:21 PM
:2vrolijk_21:
?


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: iski on May 07, 2020, 07:47:33 PM
I told them if it problem came back I would ride the hell out of it , until it blew up and then they would have to replace the motor, their reply was “ that’s what I would do to and it only cost me $50 for a new motor “
Now isn’t that some BS!!!


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Yes.  Also when you blow a motor it makes a damn mess & oil goes everywhere.  Don't have to ask me how I know.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: iski on May 07, 2020, 07:48:14 PM
?


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Agree, sounds ok.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:48:33 PM
Yes.  Also when you blow a motor it makes a damn mess & oil goes everywhere.  Don't have to ask me how I know.
Already know


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Twolanerider on May 07, 2020, 07:49:52 PM
Yes.  Also when you blow a motor it makes a damn mess & oil goes everywhere.  Don't have to ask me how I know.


You can worry about that less on a trike.  It's harder to fall down.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:50:20 PM

You can worry about that less on a trike.  It's harder to fall down.
That’s right


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Twolanerider on May 07, 2020, 07:51:03 PM
I told them if it problem came back I would ride the hell out of it , until it blew up and then they would have to replace the motor, their reply was “ that’s what I would do to and it only cost me $50 for a new motor “
Now isn’t that some BS!!!


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Why even $50?  New bike warranty right?
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 07:52:38 PM

Why even $50?  New bike warranty right?
That’s what the service manager told me


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Twolanerider on May 07, 2020, 07:57:45 PM
That’s what the service manager told me


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Shouldn't cost anything under the new vehicle warranty.  Deductible if repaired by the service contractor later if you bought that though.

I still can't believe the dealer didn't just immediately open it up with that noise.  Good customer, paying big bucks, with something that obvious; they're only response should have been "yes sir, and in this time of national crisis would you like some spare toilet paper to take home while we prosecute your repair?"
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 09:06:36 PM

Shouldn't cost anything under the new vehicle warranty.  Deductible if repaired by the service contractor later if you bought that though.

I still can't believe the dealer didn't just immediately open it up with that noise.  Good customer, paying big bucks, with something that obvious; they're only response should have been "yes sir, and in this time of national crisis would you like some spare toilet paper to take home while we prosecute your repair?"



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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 07, 2020, 09:59:20 PM



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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: OBB on May 08, 2020, 06:14:24 AM
Not sure what dealer that is but time for a new one. I'd be at the point of getting the phone number for the district rep and arranging a meeting with that person too. I'd be frustrated enough with the engine on that thing but that comment about the $50 would have put me over the top.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: FLSTFI Dave on May 08, 2020, 07:14:51 AM
I agree, do not pay for the 1000 miles service.  Dealer just wants to make money on that.  All that will be covered by the Factory Warranty.   Also if the engine blows up in the first 24 months, there is no deductible.  Had a 2015 where a failed lifter took out the motor.  Bike was 2 days shy of being two years old, motor replaced.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: iski on May 08, 2020, 07:45:14 AM

You can worry about that less on a trike.  It's harder to fall down.

True.  Still very annoying, have never had a motor on a trike blow.  Probably because when I was 18 nobody would let me ride their trike.  For good reasons.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Cat Eye on May 08, 2020, 08:08:28 AM
Not sure what dealer that is but time for a new one. I'd be at the point of getting the phone number for the district rep and arranging a meeting with that person too. I'd be frustrated enough with the engine on that thing but that comment about the $50 would have put me over the top.

If you have the option of working with another dealer, I would give them a call and ask them what they would do.  For service and warranty work, the dealer who sells the bike have no inherited obligations to service the it.

I personally buy all my bikes from one dealership and have all my warranty service work at another. Why?  Because one dealership focuses more on selling bikes and the other has a top notch service department.

But what concerns me about your situation is that if the service manager told you to go blow your motor in order to repair what is probably a simple issue on a motorcycle with only 500 miles on it, shows a lack of integrity and if they are willing to openly stick it to MOCO, it is almost a sure thing that they are willing to stick it to their customers.....which seems like what they are doing to you right now.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: ultrafxr on May 08, 2020, 09:40:42 AM
I'm certainly not defending the dealer who should be an advocate for customers rather than an impediment.  I have no idea what the exact criteria are for warranty claims but rest assured there are criteria dealers must follow to be assured of reimbursement from Mother Harley.  Dealers are not free to do what they please without authorization from Harley's warranty department and my local dealer has said Harley is really tightening the screws in order to hold down warranty expenditures.  Dealers have less discretion than in the past and are under much stricter guidelines and control.  So the real culprit here imo is Mother Harley . . . but as I said initially the dealer has an affirmative obligation to the customer to be a staunch advocate and push through the red tape to get the problem solved.  If the dealer is not doing all they can then they too are at fault.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 08, 2020, 07:27:13 PM
I'm certainly not defending the dealer who should be an advocate for customers rather than an impediment.  I have no idea what the exact criteria are for warranty claims but rest assured there are criteria dealers must follow to be assured of reimbursement from Mother Harley.  Dealers are not free to do what they please without authorization from Harley's warranty department and my local dealer has said Harley is really tightening the screws in order to hold down warranty expenditures.  Dealers have less discretion than in the past and are under much stricter guidelines and control.  So the real culprit here imo is Mother Harley . . . but as I said initially the dealer has an affirmative obligation to the customer to be a staunch advocate and push through the red tape to get the problem solved.  If the dealer is not doing all they can then they too are at fault.
The dealership call and said that they have talk to HD into replacing the front two lifters, and wanted to know if I was going to do my 1000 oil change with 570 miles on it. I told them no on the oil change!


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: HD Street Performance on May 08, 2020, 09:51:32 PM
Bad move. Oil needs to be changed but should be on their dime
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 08, 2020, 10:14:00 PM
Bad move. Oil needs to be changed but should be on their dime
I agree, but they are not willing to do it on there dime. $300 for the oil change on my dime


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Twolanerider on May 08, 2020, 11:54:58 PM
I agree, but they are not willing to do it on there dime. $300 for the oil change on my dime


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Find it doubtful that any factory service spec will give guidance that changing suspect engine internal parts should be done while leaving the old oil in the engine.  Push them a bit would be they'll change it.  They can't deny the logic of the request. Should be part of the warranty job.  They're likely just trying to double dip between what they'll get from Harley for the warranty job and the very expensive oil change / 1000 mile service from you. 

Ask them to put it in writing that fresh oil is refused when lifters are being changed under warranty.  I know I'd want it documented for later just in case glitter from bad lifters (or whatever else has now hammered) makes it way to other parts.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: r0de_runr on May 09, 2020, 04:34:27 AM
I would have them change engine oil only during the warranty work, but not do the 1000 mile service.  Then file a complaint about having to pay for the oil change.

This is a terrible situation for a new bike owner to be in.  Just another nail in the HD coffin.  Glad my '14 Limited is fairly well broke in now with all the stuff that had to be covered under warranty and ESP.  No more HD's for me sadly.


Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Mofo67 on May 09, 2020, 05:04:24 AM
Picked mine up Thursday afternoon. Dealer replaced the front 2 lifters, no charge to me. Bike runs great and sounds the way it should.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Mr. Warlock on May 09, 2020, 06:06:55 AM
I just can't fathom these fools putting their customers through this chit and still putting crap lifters in these motors after all this time. How on earth could anyone who calls themselves a (tech) listen to that noise and not realize the seriousness of the problem. How could anyone not think the oil should be changed under warranty for any oil line related problem with a motor, this chit blows my mind!
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: grc on May 09, 2020, 08:44:37 AM
I just can't fathom these fools putting their customers through this chit and still putting crap lifters in these motors after all this time. How on earth could anyone who calls themselves a (tech) listen to that noise and not realize the seriousness of the problem. How could anyone not think the oil should be changed under warranty for any oil line related problem with a motor, this chit blows my mind!

When you realize Harley buys their production lifters from the same folks that sell GM lifters, you have to wonder why Harley's have so many lifter problems and GM has so few.  Ya think Harley buys the "factory seconds" to save a few pennies?  Or is it possible they just do a lousy job of removing flash and trash from the engine parts before bolting everything together, and the trash lodges in the lifters? 

Jerry
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: HD Street Performance on May 09, 2020, 09:48:41 AM

Find it doubtful that any factory service spec will give guidance that changing suspect engine internal parts should be done while leaving the old oil in the engine. 

Agreed. Change the oil.

GM lifters agreed but they are working against 90lb seat springs with valves just as heavy as the CVO. Better geometry, mild lobes. The M8 has 140lb cumulative pressure seat stock, CVO 110 165#@ 1.835 and spring rate of 441#
Eyes go to lifters and as Jerry states crud gets trapped in the lifters. It is the best oil filter, problem is when junk gets in there there is no way out and the motor will sound like hell until the lifters are changed.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 09, 2020, 09:53:40 AM
Agreed. Change the oil.

GM lifters agreed but they are working against 90lb seat springs with valves just as heavy as the CVO. Better geometry, mild lobes. The M8 has 140lb cumulative pressure seat stock, CVO 110 165#@ 1.835 and spring rate of 441#
Eyes go to lifters and as Jerry states crud gets trapped in the lifters. It is the best oil filter, problem is when junk gets in there there is no way out and the motor will sound like hell until the lifters are changed.
Didn’t H-D issues a upgraded oil filter for the M8?


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 09, 2020, 09:56:21 AM
Didn’t H-D issues a upgraded oil filter for the M8?


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: HD Street Performance on May 09, 2020, 10:25:22 AM
The new design oil filter does not help. This is a system design problem. 5µ is a nominal number not absolute. Have a look at the system flow diagram if you are interested. I have not seen that for the M8 but I am sure it is in the SM, or at least it should be.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 09, 2020, 10:32:46 AM
The new design oil filter does not help. This is a system design problem. 5µ is a nominal number not absolute. Have a look at the system flow diagram if you are interested. I have not seen that for the M8 but I am sure it is in the SM, or at least it should be.
Talk to the service manager and he refuses to change the oil in it , and I asked shouldn’t that fall under the warranty of putting the two front lifters in it! He stated no and ask again if I wanted to do the 1k service with less then 600 miles on while the bike was there and I said no.... he told me well it ready for you to pick up then.


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: KGB on May 09, 2020, 11:15:26 AM
Talk to the service manager and he refuses to change the oil in it , and I asked shouldn’t that fall under the warranty of putting the two front lifters in it! He stated no and ask again if I wanted to do the 1k service with less then 600 miles on while the bike was there and I said no.... he told me well it ready for you to pick up then.


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What dealership, do I know not to ever go there if I’m traveling


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: OBB on May 09, 2020, 12:15:32 PM
What dealership, do I know not to ever go there if I’m traveling


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^ what He said!

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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: HD Street Performance on May 09, 2020, 12:18:31 PM
Change the oil and filter yourself, move on. The lifters at such early age are either defective from inception or are getting crap in them from dirty assembly.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 09, 2020, 12:19:46 PM
^ what He said!

Sent from my boring Droid phone.
Nashville area


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 09, 2020, 12:20:31 PM
^ what He said!

Sent from my boring Droid phone.
In Nashville


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Smoketown on May 09, 2020, 12:22:17 PM
Change the oil and filter yourself, move on. The lifters at such early age are either defective from inception or are getting crap in them from dirty assembly.


And, save the receipts!    :2vrolijk_21:


Cheers,
Smoketown
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: scotman623 on May 09, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
I can’t believe what I’m reading!!!!! The oil and filter 100% be replaced when changing out lifters.... What the F planet are some of these techs from... Get it in writing that they didn’t change the oil and filter and do it yourself... And I would buy it online before giving them anymore money...
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 09, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
I can’t believe what I’m reading!!!!! The oil and filter 100% be replaced when changing out lifters.... What the F planet are some of these techs from... Get it in writing that they didn’t change the oil and filter and do it yourself... And I would buy it online before giving them anymore money...
Will it void the factory warranty if I change it myself?


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: fastfreddy on May 09, 2020, 03:54:15 PM
dont think it says any where that a HD dealer has to change your oil or the warranty is voided... and i feel the 1k service is bull sh!t , a oil change is not out of line but the rest is not needed. side note my 13 SERG had more oil related failures than any bike i ever owned and i let the "PROS" do most all the services on it, my 16 SERGU i have done every oil change/service and knock wood... not one issue... 42k miles and counting
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 09, 2020, 03:58:47 PM
dont think it says any where that a HD dealer has to change your oil or the warranty is voided... and i feel the 1k service is bull sh!t , a oil change is not out of line but the rest is not needed. side note my 13 SERG had more oil related failures than any bike i ever owned and i let the "PROS" do most all the services on it, my 16 SERGU i have done every oil change/service and knock wood... not one issue... 42k miles and counting



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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: KGB on May 09, 2020, 05:01:49 PM
dont think it says any where that a HD dealer has to change your oil or the warranty is voided... and i feel the 1k service is bull sh!t , a oil change is not out of line but the rest is not needed. side note my 13 SERG had more oil related failures than any bike i ever owned and i let the "PROS" do most all the services on it, my 16 SERGU i have done every oil change/service and knock wood... not one issue... 42k miles and counting

There is a law called the "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act" it does not require that a dealer has to perform the scheduled maintenance, but I would use an oem oil filter and save the receipts, record the date and mileage and its always good to have a service manual. I due all of my maintenance as per when its called for and sometimes even before, I keep a excel spread sheet and log everything I do. So far I haven't had a problem of getting warranty work completed, but really haven't had that much failed.   
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: FLSTFI Dave on May 10, 2020, 07:02:25 AM
In Nashville


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There are three Boswell owned dealers in Nashville.  Another Boswell in Cookville TN  Sort of surprised that your being teated like this from them.  I have had great luck with the cookeville store as have friends of mine.  Have met the owner a few times.  Maybe Nashville stores are run different.

Moonshine Harley is the other one near Nashville in Franklin.  Same owners as Fort Walton Beach Harley.  Don't know anything about them.

Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 10, 2020, 08:51:56 AM
There are three Boswell owned dealers in Nashville.  Another Boswell in Cookville TN  Sort of surprised that your being teated like this from them.  I have had great luck with the cookeville store as have friends of mine.  Have met the owner a few times.  Maybe Nashville stores are run different.

Moonshine Harley is the other one near Nashville in Franklin.  Same owners as Fort Walton Beach Harley.  Don't know anything about them.
Moonshine Harley and Fort Walton Beach has the same owner?!
Did a search and it shows different owners


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Cat Eye on May 10, 2020, 02:02:04 PM
Am I to understand that they replaced only two of the lifter?

Don’t they come in a set of 4?

Also...how did they determine which 2 lifters were bad?


I apologize if I’m missing something.

Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 10, 2020, 03:42:59 PM
Am I to understand that they replaced only two of the lifter?

Don’t they come in a set of 4?

Also...how did they determine which 2 lifters were bad?


I apologize if I’m missing something.
Yes they told the front two that they replaced, so the back two are worn with the cam lobes and the two front two aren’t,wondering have is that going to work? You think they would of replaced all of them!


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Twolanerider on May 10, 2020, 04:04:54 PM
Yes they told the front two that they replaced, so the back two are worn with the cam lobes and the two front two aren’t,wondering have is that going to work? You think they would of replaced all of them!


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You or I or most normal people would have.  A dealership and manufacturer that won't even cover the cost of a few quarts of oil when they're doing work that has had to have seen oil contamination....  them....; not a freaking chance. 

I'm taking a break from having a grand old time out in the garage today working on one of my old bikes.  Complete new top end, cams, etc on my old Road Glide.  Your experience is another reason/reinforcement as to why I'm doing that.  Couldn't be persuaded to buy a new bike from MotherHarley.  Doing the work I am doing without buying anymore parts from them than is absolutely necessary.  Wankers.  Cheap wankers at that.

Oh yeah, as I'm putting mine back together I'm actually using all four brand new lifters  :drummer: :huepfenlol2: :drummer: !
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Cat Eye on May 10, 2020, 04:18:33 PM
Yes they told the front two that they replaced, so the back two are worn with the cam lobes and the two front two aren’t,wondering have is that going to work? You think they would of replaced all of them!


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this is mine boggling....so they took all four lifters out and inspected them. Then put the two rear ones back in and put new ones in the front!

Now they have two new lifters, unboxed in inventory.... what’s their phone number....I want to call them to see if they will sell me one lifter!   mine boggling!
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Twolanerider on May 10, 2020, 06:31:53 PM
this is mine boggling....so they took all four lifters out and inspected them. Then put the two rear ones back in and put new ones in the front!

Now they have two new lifters, unboxed in inventory.... what’s their phone number....I want to call them to see if they will sell me one lifter!   mine boggling!


The factory doesn't handle lifers the way the aftermarket does.  It's not sets of four.  Individual part numbers.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Yellow09SERG on May 10, 2020, 09:22:55 PM
Another option being it is still warranty and you have taken it in so there is a service ticket on it already in the system that was blown off would be go for a ride and thrash the crap out of it till it quits and then call them to come get it.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 10, 2020, 09:37:34 PM
Another option being it is still warranty and you have taken it in so there is a service ticket on it already in the system that was blown off would be go for a ride and thrash the crap out of it till it quits and then call them to come get it.
they aren’t willing to do anything for me at all, spent $50k on my bike after my wife brought a freewheeler (2019)and my nephew brought a 2016 cvo street glide .. and still no sense of urgency on my bike . WTF!
Am so over these MF!


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: FLSTFI Dave on May 11, 2020, 06:31:30 AM
Moonshine Harley and Fort Walton Beach has the same owner?!
Did a search and it shows different owners


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Three years ago they were the same owner.  I did not know one of them sold, or changed hands.

Guess your not going to tell us who the shoddy dealer is that thinks its ok to replace failed lifters and leave the dirty contaminated oil in your bike.

I would never want them to touch my bike for any reason.

 

You or I or most normal people would have.  A dealership and manufacturer that won't even cover the cost of a few quarts of oil when they're doing work that has had to have seen oil contamination....  them....; not a freaking chance. 

 Wankers.  Cheap wankers at that.

Oh yeah, as I'm putting mine back together I'm actually using all four brand new lifters  :drummer: :huepfenlol2: :drummer: !

Sad that a dealership can't afford an oil filter and four quarts of oil to do the job right.

Seeing we won't know which dealership I'll just avoid all with in 100 miles of Nashville.

There are still good dealers out there.  When the MoCo said to just do the top end and cam when my lifters failed on my 15, my local dealer went to bat, showed them pictures of lifter metal in the oil filter, on the drain plug and so on, I ended up with a new motor. 
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: ultrafxr on May 11, 2020, 07:59:46 AM
While not knowing for certain I would nonetheless be surprised if it is a Boswell dealership. I’ve known the owner Bubba Boswell for many years a he is an old time dealer. His father started the dealership many years ago. If it is one if his dealerships though I’d contact him.  He’s active on Facebook or I can probably get a phone number for him. PM me if I can help.


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 11, 2020, 04:44:19 PM
While not knowing for certain I would nonetheless be surprised if it is a Boswell dealership. I’ve known the owner Bubba Boswell for many years a he is an old time dealer. His father started the dealership many years ago. If it is one if his dealerships though I’d contact him.  He’s active on Facebook or I can probably get a phone number for him. PM me if I can help.


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No it’s not Boswell , really don’t want to put the dealership name out there ... They still have my bike... it’s ready for me to pick it up... and then I’ll put the name out there


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: DCFIREMANN on May 12, 2020, 05:48:27 AM
Well after reading this thread I am in shock. Well not really. Same ole BS we have had to put up with for quite a while now. Now I have a question that no one has asked yet. Why are these new M8 motors having just the front lifters failing???? Inquiring minds need to know.

I wanted another new CVO and was ready to buy with this pandemic going on. I figure I would get a good deal. BUT I'm thinkin I am just going to sit back and watch this show unfold.

Be Safe

THE DAWG   
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 12, 2020, 06:49:11 PM
Well after reading this thread I am in shock. Well not really. Same ole BS we have had to put up with for quite a while now. Now I have a question that no one has asked yet. Why are these new M8 motors having just the front lifters failing???? Inquiring minds need to know.

I wanted another new CVO and was ready to buy with this pandemic going on. I figure I would get a good deal. BUT I'm thinkin I am just going to sit back and watch this show unfold.

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Talked to HD customers service today and , they seems to be no help at all, they told me that the work order requested for the front two lifters and there was nothing on it about requesting and oil change and that he was a mechanic and couldn’t advise me one way or the other!
Now my question is while replacing the front two lifters, did they do it right or did they put adjustable push rods back in?


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: KGB on May 12, 2020, 07:18:32 PM
Talked to HD customers service today and , they seems to be no help at all, they told me that the work order requested for the front two lifters and there was nothing on it about requesting and oil change and that he was a mechanic and couldn’t advise me one way or the other!
Now my question is while replacing the front two lifters, did they do it right or did they put adjustable push rods back in?


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If they wouldn’t change the oil, I highly doubt that they would have put adjustable push rods in


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 12, 2020, 07:43:43 PM
If they wouldn’t change the oil, I highly doubt that they would have put adjustable push rods in


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Well in order to do it right wouldn’t they would of have taken off the rocker arm cover and the rocker arm to pull the push rods or did they just cut the push rods in it and put adjustable push rods back in ,to get the job done quicker?


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: FLSTFI Dave on May 13, 2020, 06:32:38 AM
I am sure being warranty work they did the job the way they make more money.  So if it pays more for all the labor they would not cut them and put adjustable in.  If all the labor of the long way had enough money in it to make up the cost of adjustable push rods, and they would make more money that way, they would go that way.  But warranty would not pay for adjustable rods, so its if they can make it up in time.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 16, 2020, 08:08:19 AM
I am sure being warranty work they did the job the way they make more money.  So if it pays more for all the labor they would not cut them and put adjustable in.  If all the labor of the long way had enough money in it to make up the cost of adjustable push rods, and they would make more money that way, they would go that way.  But warranty would not pay for adjustable rods, so its if they can make it up in time.
UPDATE
Went to pick my bike up yesterday and the service manager came out after I requested for him to know that I was here to pick up the bike, he wasn’t happy with me at all, he want to know why did I score them so low on the survey that HD sent out to me, i explained to him all of what I’ve been told and what has and hasn’t been done, he agreed to change my oil and also change my wife’s oil in her freewheeler, after doing a recall on her traction control.
While riding home 30 miles from the shop the check engine light and temp light came on , stopped and call the shop back and he send the driver to pick my bike back up and call me late yesterday and said that I was his top priority today and he would deliver the bike back to me today.
Not sure how he knew it was me on the survey that I received in my email.


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: 08glide on May 20, 2020, 10:31:51 AM
so, if the w/o didn't request oil change, that tells me the service mgr or tech didn't ask or suggest it except to see if you'd pay up.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: scotman623 on May 20, 2020, 11:01:44 AM
Now this is getting more interesting!!!! Hopefully you get your bike back today and all is well...
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: skratch on May 20, 2020, 11:47:25 AM
terry, been a week.  any updates?
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: DCFIREMANN on May 20, 2020, 07:33:21 PM
terry, been a week.  any updates?

I am very interested to hear the out come on the latest as well.

Be Safe

THE DAWG
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: dmnrdn on May 21, 2020, 07:20:45 AM
UPDATE
Went to pick my bike up yesterday and the service manager came out after I requested for him to know that I was here to pick up the bike, he wasn’t happy with me at all, he want to know why did I score them so low on the survey that HD sent out to me, i explained to him all of what I’ve been told and what has and hasn’t been done, he agreed to change my oil and also change my wife’s oil in her freewheeler, after doing a recall on her traction control.
While riding home 30 miles from the shop the check engine light and temp light came on , stopped and call the shop back and he send the driver to pick my bike back up and call me late yesterday and said that I was his top priority today and he would deliver the bike back to me today.
Not sure how he knew it was me on the survey that I received in my email.


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So the dealership give you the run around, you tell the truth in a survey and then they jump your azz because you told the truth.  If I confronted a customer like that I would be in the soup line.  I hope you get things straightened out.  Once you are finished dealing with the AZZ Clowns in the Service Department I would be talking to the owner.  Problem with that is then he will jump in the Service Managers azz and then you will have strike 2 in the Service Managers eyes.  I feel for you as you seem to be in a no win situation unless you go to a different dealer.  One hell of a position to be in after spending that kind of $$$.

Best of luck
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: grc on May 21, 2020, 10:24:33 AM
So the dealership give you the run around, you tell the truth in a survey and then they jump your azz because you told the truth.  If I confronted a customer like that I would be in the soup line.  I hope you get things straightened out.  Once you are finished dealing with the AZZ Clowns in the Service Department I would be talking to the owner.  Problem with that is then he will jump in the Service Managers azz and then you will have strike 2 in the Service Managers eyes.  I feel for you as you seem to be in a no win situation unless you go to a different dealer.  One hell of a position to be in after spending that kind of $$$.

Best of luck

Regardless of possible repercussions, I would also suggest a sit down "chat" with the owner, and the result would tell me if I need to start using another dealership for service going forward.  Fortunately, you are not tied to the selling dealership for warranty work or recall work or anything else.  If this is the way the owner lets his service department treat people however, don't be surprised if he blows you off or refuses to even sit down and talk with you.  Way too many good small mom and pop dealerships were forced out by Harley ten to twenty years ago, and they in many cases were replaced by hot shot used car dealer types that would agree to build bigger and fancier facilities and promote whatever Harley told them to promote.  The old mom and pop places didn't normally screw over customers, they wanted their repeat business.  The new breed seems to be the polar opposite.

JMHO - Jerry
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 21, 2020, 10:59:45 AM
Regardless of possible repercussions, I would also suggest a sit down "chat" with the owner, and the result would tell me if I need to start using another dealership for service going forward.  Fortunately, you are not tied to the selling dealership for warranty work or recall work or anything else.  If this is the way the owner lets his service department treat people however, don't be surprised if he blows you off or refuses to even sit down and talk with you.  Way too many good small mom and pop dealerships were forced out by Harley ten to twenty years ago, and they in many cases were replaced by hot shot used car dealer types that would agree to build bigger and fancier facilities and promote whatever Harley told them to promote.  The old mom and pop places didn't normally screw over customers, they wanted their repeat business.  The new breed seems to be the polar opposite.

JMHO - Jerry
Regardless of possible repercussions, I would also suggest a sit down "chat" with the owner, and the result would tell me if I need to start using another dealership for service going forward.  Fortunately, you are not tied to the selling dealership for warranty work or recall work or anything else.  If this is the way the owner lets his service department treat people however, don't be surprised if he blows you off or refuses to even sit down and talk with you.  Way too many good small mom and pop dealerships were forced out by Harley ten to twenty years ago, and they in many cases were replaced by hot shot used car dealer types that would agree to build bigger and fancier facilities and promote whatever Harley told them to promote.  The old mom and pop places didn't normally screw over customers, they wanted their repeat business.  The new breed seems to be the polar opposite.

JMHO - Jerry
Requested several times and called to speak with the owner, only to be told he’s busy, just stepped out.
The service manager wasn’t happy with my low score and stated that it will be sent out again and he wanted 10’s on all the questions !
But I do get my bike back after the check engine light an temp light came on and it was fixed. Service manager said it had air in the coolant line and that he drained the coolant and put new in it. Really hadn’t a chance to ride it to put any miles on it to see if anything will come back.
Just goes to show everyone, that while buying a bike $$$ everyone there is your best friends, after the sale no one really wants to deal with you. We’ve brought 2 bikes from them and brought a family member in and they brought a cvo street glide as well from the same dealership!
Just sad!!!!!!!!!!!


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Ironhorse on May 21, 2020, 12:47:31 PM
Requested several times and called to speak with the owner, only to be told he’s busy, just stepped out.
The service manager wasn’t happy with my low score and stated that it will be sent out again and he wanted 10’s on all the questions!
But I do get my bike back after the check engine light an temp light came on and it was fixed. Service manager said it had air in the coolant line and that he drained the coolant and put new in it. Really hadn’t a chance to ride it to put any miles on it to see if anything will come back.
Just goes to show everyone, that while buying a bike $$$ everyone there is your best friends, after the sale no one really wants to deal with you. We’ve brought 2 bikes from them and brought a family member in and they brought a cvo street glide as well from the same dealership!
Just sad!!!!!!!!!!!

It's sad when making money and ratings becomes more important than people and customers. I'd show up with the consumer reporter from the local TV station.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: iski on May 21, 2020, 04:24:48 PM
Dealer commenting on the survey results was out of line.  They stepped up but not in the way they should have.  It is sad. I would find another dealer if at all possible.

Easy enough to see with this real life example why HD is slip sliding away - from top to bottom there are a lot of problems.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Threephase on May 22, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
I find it odd that companies now have to beg (or in some case issue “veiled” threats) to get good reviews. From AT&T, the auto parts store, car dealers,  etc. They spend more time telling you how important their follow up customer surveys are to them rather than focusing on the needs of the customer and the purchase of goods or services they just made.

Here is a novel, albeit antiquated, idea.  Treat your customers like they are the only person in your world at that moment. Provide answers to their questions without the use of your cell phone. Let them know how much you appreciate them choosing YOU or YOUR BUSINESS to spend THEIR money with.

Then, they will leave so happy that they will share their experience with everyone they see and will recommend YOUR business. No third party phone surveys required.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Terry60 on May 22, 2020, 10:55:51 AM
That’s right. Word of mouth is better than any survey!


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Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: bluegoose on May 22, 2020, 11:34:44 AM
Terry

Sorry to read about all of your issues.  It appears the dealer is only concerned about sales and not customer satisfaction after the sale.

Agree word of mouth is better than a survey.

Can you share the name of the dealer?  Just want to make sure I never set foot in that dealership.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Fired00d on May 22, 2020, 11:38:20 AM
I find it odd that companies now have to beg (or in some case issue “veiled” threats) to get good reviews. From AT&T, the auto parts store, car dealers,  etc. They spend more time telling you how important their follow up customer surveys are to them rather than focusing on the needs of the customer and the purchase of goods or services they just made.

Here is a novel, albeit antiquated, idea.  Treat your customers like they are the only person in your world at that moment. Provide answers to their questions without the use of your cell phone. Let them know how much you appreciate them choosing YOU or YOUR BUSINESS to spend THEIR money with.

Then, they will leave so happy that they will share their experience with everyone they see and will recommend YOUR business. No third party phone surveys required.

Amen!!! Sometimes the old way(s) of doing things are a whole lot better.

 :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman:
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Texas 103 on May 23, 2020, 07:28:19 AM
Amen!!! Sometimes the old way(s) of doing things are a whole lot better.

 :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman:

What a concept!!..take a real interest in the person you are working with!! How many other people do they know?? that will sing your song .. That my friends is the most powerful sales tool on the planet!
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: Adrian on May 24, 2020, 12:35:37 AM
I would almost bet it's a lifter
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: SilverFatBoy on May 26, 2020, 03:23:16 PM
There are three Boswell owned dealers in Nashville.  Another Boswell in Cookville TN  Sort of surprised that your being teated like this from them.  I have had great luck with the cookeville store as have friends of mine.  Have met the owner a few times.  Maybe Nashville stores are run different.

Moonshine Harley is the other one near Nashville in Franklin.  Same owners as Fort Walton Beach Harley.  Don't know anything about them.

Moonshine H-D has a YouTube channel. They seem to have a lot of fun, but mainly do upgrades (in their videos, at least)
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: X-Man on June 29, 2020, 12:06:30 AM
Agreed. Change the oil.

GM lifters agreed but they are working against 90lb seat springs with valves just as heavy as the CVO. Better geometry, mild lobes. The M8 has 140lb cumulative pressure seat stock, CVO 110 165#@ 1.835 and spring rate of 441#
Eyes go to lifters and as Jerry states crud gets trapped in the lifters. It is the best oil filter, problem is when junk gets in there there is no way out and the motor will sound like hell until the lifters are changed.
And one cam lobe and lifter actuates two valves and springs on the M8, so almost twice the load, I can't think of any other engine that uses this cost cutting design. I am sure there has been one though as HD doesn't invent anything new.
Title: Re: Engine had very bad tapping noise in it at 544 miles
Post by: CVO Couple on June 29, 2020, 03:52:23 PM
Lots of 4 valve engines are this way whether push rod or overhead cam activated. 2 smaller springs may have same load or less than one big one.


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