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Author Topic: Harley moving jobs to Europe  (Read 12050 times)

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DesertHOG

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Harley moving jobs to Europe
« on: June 25, 2018, 09:07:40 AM »

Harley-Davidson will move some production out of US after retaliatory tariffs

By Nathaniel Meyersohn June 25, 2018: 8:30 AM ET
Harley-Davidson is already taking a hit in the trade fight between President Trump and European allies.

The company is shifting some production of motorcycles for European customers out of the United States to avoid EU retaliatory tariffs.

The EU is imposing tariffs on $3.2 billion worth of American goods, including motorcycles, orange juice, bourbon, peanut butter, motorboats, cigarettes and denim. They are a response to the Trump administration's tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from Europe.
For motorcycles, the EU is raising its 6% tariff to 31%. That will make each bike about $2,200 more expensive to export, Harley said. Harley is not raising prices for customers. The company said it will take a hit of $30 million to $45 million for the rest of this year.
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muddypaws

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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2018, 09:21:41 AM »

I don't think that will help sales.
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Bill

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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2018, 09:23:51 AM »

Well I guess they could give up 2k out of 7or8k profit :huepfenjump3:
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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2018, 01:34:38 PM »

Saw that article earlier this morning Simon.  Notice nowhere does it say the jobs/production are moving to Europe.  Only says that production will move to a place not impacted so badly by European tariffs.  Many labor markets are in countries that don't pay high EU tariffs.
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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2018, 02:12:07 PM »

Saw that article earlier this morning Simon.  Notice nowhere does it say the jobs/production are moving to Europe.  Only says that production will move to a place not impacted so badly by European tariffs.  Many labor markets are in countries that don't pay high EU tariffs.

Ok. Apparently that excludes production in America.
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Ironhorse

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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2018, 04:14:46 PM »

Financially it's a smart move for the MoCo. By building overseas they can avoid the trade tariffs and make the company more money. And by employing foreign workers they may build a better relationship with foreign governments as they no doubt will have to pay fees, licensing, taxes and all that. If the MoCo is able to, they should move production to a poor 3rd world country where labor is really cheap, and there are few if any enforced restrictions on industrial waste. A Harley made in Pakistan and sent to Europe does not bear the same trade tariff as one made in the USA. They can pay pennies on the dollar for day labor, and dump waste without fear of environmental reprisals.

We might benefit too. With cheaper wages, no unions, and no EPA guidelines perhaps the cost of the bikes and parts might come down a bit. Or the profit could go to those at the top.

The only folks getting the short end of the deal are the American workers who may lose their jobs and the communities that depend on their income. I'm not saying it's right, but I guess that's what comes with it.
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DesertHOG

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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2018, 04:26:10 PM »

Financially it's a smart move for the MoCo. By building overseas they can avoid the trade tariffs and make the company more money. And by employing foreign workers they may build a better relationship with foreign governments as they no doubt will have to pay fees, licensing, taxes and all that. If the MoCo is able to, they should move production to a poor 3rd world country where labor is really cheap, and there are few if any enforced restrictions on industrial waste. A Harley made in Pakistan and sent to Europe does not bear the same trade tariff as one made in the USA. They can pay pennies on the dollar for day labor, and dump waste without fear of environmental reprisals.

We might benefit too. With cheaper wages, no unions, and no EPA guidelines perhaps the cost of the bikes and parts might come down a bit. Or the profit could go to those at the top.

The only folks getting the short end of the deal are the American workers who may lose their jobs and the communities that depend on their income. I'm not saying it's right, but I guess that's what comes with it.


Unemployment

The U.S. Unemployment Rate Is Now the Lowest It's Been This Century. ... The jobless rate fell to 3.9%, the lowest since December 2000, after six months at 4.1%.

Job Openings

On the last business day of April, the job openings level was little changed but reached a new series
high of 6.7 million. The series began in December 2000. The job openings rate was 4.3 percent in April
2018. The number of job openings was little changed for total private and for government. Job openings
increased in durable goods manufacturing (+33,000) and information (+26,000) but decreased in finance
and insurance (-84,000). The number of job openings was little changed in all four regions.

Personal Observations on Jobs

I was driving the backcountry roads of Missouri and Kansas my last trip. Lots of "Jobs Available" signs on gas stations, convenience stores, and small manufacturing plants. I'm sure any displaced workers can find a job if they really want one, maybe even two jobs since a lot of jobs these days are part-time to reduce the burden of benefits costs on employers.
 
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Ironhorse

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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2018, 05:00:19 PM »


Unemployment

The U.S. Unemployment Rate Is Now the Lowest It's Been This Century. ... The jobless rate fell to 3.9%, the lowest since December 2000, after six months at 4.1%.

Job Openings

On the last business day of April, the job openings level was little changed but reached a new series
high of 6.7 million. The series began in December 2000. The job openings rate was 4.3 percent in April
2018. The number of job openings was little changed for total private and for government. Job openings
increased in durable goods manufacturing (+33,000) and information (+26,000) but decreased in finance
and insurance (-84,000). The number of job openings was little changed in all four regions.

Personal Observations on Jobs

I was driving the backcountry roads of Missouri and Kansas my last trip. Lots of "Jobs Available" signs on gas stations, convenience stores, and small manufacturing plants. I'm sure any displaced workers can find a job if they really want one, maybe even two jobs since a lot of jobs these days are part-time to reduce the burden of benefits costs on employers.

That's good to know, I'm sure any workers who get displaced will be glad to hear that.
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grc

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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2018, 05:11:29 PM »

The official unemployment numbers are very misleading, since they only count people who are actively seeking employment.  It's easy to figure out who is supposedly "actively seeking employment" when those people are collecting unemployment benefits.  Once the benefits run out, people don't have much incentive to keep reporting to the local unemployment office and they usually don't get counted.  The other part that government statistics don't reflect is how many people are under-employed.  That would include people who only found part time jobs, or people who had to settle for a job paying much less than they made before.  And then we have those who just don't want a job.  An excellent example is the 30 year old leech in the news recently because his parents went to court to have him evicted from their house.  Think about all those families you know who have adult children still living at home.  If you want to look at statistics, don't just look at the highly inaccurate unemployment rate, also look at the participation rate.

My point is that government statistics paint a much too rosy picture.  Reality is that the middle class in this country is shrinking, and that 75%-80% of the total wealth is now controlled by the top 10% of the population.  The bottom 50% basically has no wealth, as they live from paycheck to paycheck and have nothing or next to nothing saved.  All of this is in stark contrast to the economics of this nation back in the 1950's through 1970's, when anyone who wanted a job could easily get one and real wages and buying power were rising.  We can thank the policies that off-shored the good well paid manufacturing jobs and replaced them with low wage service jobs for much of this change.

Btw, I also see lots of signs advertising jobs.  None are for jobs that pay wages that would actually support a family.  The spoiled youngsters of today aren't getting jobs while in high school like most of us older folks did, so there are tons of fast food jobs and wait staff jobs available.  There are plenty of minimum wage laborer type jobs as well, but you have to compete with the illegals for those.

Jerry
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 05:16:26 PM by grc »
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Ironhorse

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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2018, 05:28:07 PM »

The bottom 50% basically has no wealth, as they live from paycheck to paycheck and have nothing or next to nothing saved.  All of this is in stark contrast to the economics of this nation back in the 1950's through 1970's, when anyone who wanted a job could easily get one and real wages and buying power were rising.  We can thank the policies that off-shored the good well paid manufacturing jobs and replaced them with low wage service jobs for much of this change.

Always a shameful thing to hear no doubt. But as for the MoCo, given the current situation on trade, they are doing the smart thing to keep the company making money. I heard somewhere that trade wars are good, so who knows, this may be the start of something terrific. The company will survive, regardless if they use workers here, or overseas. And who knows, maybe with Germans assembling the bikes and running engineering quality controls, perhaps there won't be as many catastrophic engine failures.

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kojak

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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2018, 05:49:46 PM »

Well said!
The official unemployment numbers are very misleading, since they only count people who are actively seeking employment.  It's easy to figure out who is supposedly "actively seeking employment" when those people are collecting unemployment benefits.  Once the benefits run out, people don't have much incentive to keep reporting to the local unemployment office and they usually don't get counted.  The other part that government statistics don't reflect is how many people are under-employed.  That would include people who only found part time jobs, or people who had to settle for a job paying much less than they made before.  And then we have those who just don't want a job.  An excellent example is the 30 year old leech in the news recently because his parents went to court to have him evicted from their house.  Think about all those families you know who have adult children still living at home.  If you want to look at statistics, don't just look at the highly inaccurate unemployment rate, also look at the participation rate.

My point is that government statistics paint a much too rosy picture.  Reality is that the middle class in this country is shrinking, and that 75%-80% of the total wealth is now controlled by the top 10% of the population.  The bottom 50% basically has no wealth, as they live from paycheck to paycheck and have nothing or next to nothing saved.  All of this is in stark contrast to the economics of this nation back in the 1950's through 1970's, when anyone who wanted a job could easily get one and real wages and buying power were rising.  We can thank the policies that off-shored the good well paid manufacturing jobs and replaced them with low wage service jobs for much of this change.

Btw, I also see lots of signs advertising jobs.  None are for jobs that pay wages that would actually support a family.  The spoiled youngsters of today aren't getting jobs while in high school like most of us older folks did, so there are tons of fast food jobs and wait staff jobs available.  There are plenty of minimum wage laborer type jobs as well, but you have to compete with the illegals for those.

Jerry
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charles05663

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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2018, 06:08:05 PM »

They have been wanting to move production overseas for a long time.  Gives them an easy out to do so without getting a lot of criticism.  Pretty soon the bikes will be label with made in XXX (fill-in the blank(not USA)) with some parts made in the USA.  Also gives them in increase in profit that the shareholders and management want (bigger bonuses).

Sad to see the way greed has shaped the world.  Like the Good Book says, "the love of money is the root of all evil."

 :oops: :nixweiss:
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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2018, 06:14:01 PM »

They have been wanting to move production overseas for a long time.  Gives them an easy out to do so without getting a lot of criticism.  Pretty soon the bikes will be label with made in XXX (fill-in the blank(not USA)) with some parts made in the USA.  Also gives them in increase in profit that the shareholders and management want (bigger bonuses).

Sad to see the way greed has shaped the world.  Like the Good Book says, "the love of money is the root of all evil."

 :oops: :nixweiss:

Well put. Like I said, it's a good move for the MoCo. It is in essence, capitalism at it's finest. And like the previous poster said, if any workers get laid off, there is a plethora of minimum wage, no benefits jobs for them to choose from.
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Re: Harley moving jobs to Europe
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2018, 06:57:23 PM »

Let’s not forget an all together dynamic. All those extraordinarily highly paid UAW union members aren’t going to run out to get those one of those minimum wage jobs until they’re kids are starving because of their pride meanwhile, the MOCO can reset wages in Europe at a much lower rate. It’s quite a win win situation.

It might be a great time to buy some stock.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 06:59:06 PM by King Glide »
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