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[iski]

 

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.
The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India .

Sadly, the End.
******************

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US . The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses.

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY

[Sean M Cary]

man, this was just posted about 3 or 4 days ago...

d00d - fix this please!!

A Japanese company ( Toyota ) and an American company (Ford Motors) decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race.

On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.

The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action.

Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.

Feeling a deeper study was in order; American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion.

They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing.

Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager.

They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.
The next year the Japanese won by two miles.

Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.

The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race (having no paddles,) so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced to India .

Sadly, the End.
******************

Here's something else to think about: Ford has spent the last thirty years moving all its factories out of the US , claiming they can't make money paying American wages.

TOYOTA has spent the last thirty years building more than a dozen plants inside the US . The last quarter's results:

TOYOTA makes 4 billion in profits while Ford racked up 9 billion in losses.

Ford folks are still scratching their heads, and collecting bonuses.

IF THIS WEREN'T SO TRUE IT MIGHT BE FUNNY

[iski]

Yeah, but it wasn't in boldface.

My post is in boldface.

 


I should read here more maybe.......

[Sean M Cary]

Yeah, but it wasn't in boldface.

My post is in boldface.

 


I should read here more maybe.......

indubitably 

[Hugh Janis]

Yeah, but it wasn't in boldface.

My post is in boldface.

 

I should read here more maybe.......

My Sister in Law was laid off from Ford two weeks ago.  She was a Manager.  Maybe they'll do better with one less steerer now.  She likely sees herself as a rower, however, since she was in charge of a line in the stamping plant and far from white collar.  She's quite happy about it........

[iski]

indubitably 

Maybe

 

[iski]

My Sister in Law was laid off from Ford two weeks ago.  She was a Manager.  Maybe they'll do better with one less steerer now.  She likely sees herself as a rower, however, since she was in charge of a line in the stamping plant and far from white collar.  She's quite happy about it........

Had family that worked for GM.  They used to love to get laid off - went fishing, took vacations. 

Not sure what they did for GM - probably something to do with the defarkenator settings?   

[grc]

Had family that worked for GM.  They used to love to get laid off - went fishing, took vacations. 

Not sure what they did for GM - probably something to do with the defarkenator settings?   

Yup, one of the excesses from the "good ol' days" when there was no competition for the big three.  Union asks for supplemental unemployment benefits (SUB) to compete with the common practice of lifetime employment in Japan and elsewhere.  Since the big three and the UAW had a practice of all agreeing to one master contract, there was no competitive disadvantage at the time and the companies agreed.  And ever since, the hourly employees have looked forward to layoffs as just a slightly different version of a vacation.  Between unemployment insurance and SUB, the typical worker could expect to receive somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-80% of their normal pay.  In later contracts the companies had to agree to ask senior employees if they wanted to take the layoffs first, since they didn't feel it was fair that the newbies got to lay around doing nothing while being paid almost as much as the senior folks who had to work every day.  Just one of the many flaky things that came out of the heyday of the big unions.

Even though there are many examples of bad agreements like this, IMHO the overall result of unionism has been positive.  Unions finally gave people who worked with their hands a chance to have some little measure of control over their lives, and to live with dignity.  The improved wages led to the expansion of the middle class, which in turn improved the lot of everyone in this country.  Unions were/are also highly active in safety, leading to many more workers actually making it home to their families over the years.  Just thought I would try to present a little from both sides.

Jerry

[iski]

Family that worked at Bell Helicopter (also union) were the same as to lay offs. Had union & non union workers in my family - so saw both sides.  When I worked production was never union & never had any issues.  Now I'm in mgt. & the company has a union & usually things go very smoothly - no strikes, etc.


It is interesting that Japanese & German automakers built plants here as domestic companies closed theirs.  Market share shifted to them.

Heard last night that BMW will shift product of the Z 4 convertible to Germany - away from their plant in Spartanburg, SC. Do not know the reason for this - could be wanting to expand the world market for the vehicle? 

[sportygordy]

                    Ford  & Toyota
                             
didnt realize this was already posted till it got moved here. . soooo  im deleating my version...

[NWbiker]

Ford is stuck with unions and Toyota is not.

[MUFFMAN]

Not any better for Gm. Gm hired an a vp in charge of whatever last year up in Canada at an annual salary not including bonuses for 1.6 million. Worked one month, is now on permanent stress leave collecting over $ one million per year. Nice job if you can get it. THE MUFFMAN

[FLSTFI Dave]

Ford is stuck with unions and Toyota is not.

While that is true, that is not the only reason.

Toyota management does not make near the money Ford Management does.  Nor does Toyota have near the numbers of managers as Ford does. 

[MUFFMAN]

While that is true, that is not the only reason.

Toyota management does not make near the money Ford Management does.  Nor does Toyota have near the numbers of managers as Ford does. 

True, but managers need managers to look after them.THE MUFFMAN

[RJ749]

Toyota has one major difference in this market to the Big 3.  They are just as invested in SUV and Truck but they never walked away for cars, so they are bouyed by car sales.

They have a long way to fall and won't get as bad as the Big 3 but they too have taken a hit in this economy, much more so than say Honda who never got into the truck game.

[Hugh Janis]

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=25737.0

[Spike]

Here's something else to think about: Ford has
spent the last thirty years moving     all its factories
out of the  US     , claiming they can't make money
paying American  wages.

TOYOTA      has spent the last thirty years building
more than a dozen plants inside     the  US      . 
The last quarter's results:
TOYOTA      makes 4 billion in profits  while Ford 
racked up 9 billion in losses.


Truck wise I've always bought Toyota until this year and I just bought a new GMC...any guesses on were it was made..Mexico. The big 3 are like most American companies....too many chiefs and not enough Indians

[grc]

Ford is stuck with unions and Toyota is not.

Sorry, but the UAW didn't hire and then keep promoting Jacques Nasser, nor did it put all those do-nothing clowns on the board of directors.  The problems at Ford were created by mismanagement, plain and simple.  And having a bunch of family members controlling the majority of the voting stock (8 votes per share of family only B class stock) surely didn't help (how do you think all those do-nothing board members got their jobs?)

Jerry

BTW, I don't remember the American auto companies saying they couldn't make money because of union wages.  If you do a little research you will find that Toyota (and Honda and Nissan) pay very similar wages in their U.S. plants.  Where the American companies have a big issue is in the legacy costs related to pensions and health care. 

[Hoist!]

Sorry, but the UAW didn't hire and then keep promoting Jacques Nasser, nor did it put all those do-nothing clowns on the board of directors.  The problems at Ford were created by mismanagement, plain and simple.  And having a bunch of family members controlling the majority of the voting stock (8 votes per share of family only B class stock) surely didn't help (how do you think all those do-nothing board members got their jobs?)

Jerry

But I bet none of em forfeited their huge bonuses and stock options!!!

Hoist!

[BigR55]

Twelve years ago Toyota built a Tundra Truck factory ten miles north of here. It has brought much needed high paying jobs to our area and they have added the Sequoia and Seana lines. Now with the downturn in truck sales, they are consolidating the whole truck line to Texas.
Dodge has been running adds for 50% off.
Honda is moving all Goldwing production back to Japan.
GM and Ford are not the only ones in trouble in the US.

[Spike]

Twelve years ago Toyota built a Tundra Truck factory ten miles north of here. It has brought much needed high paying jobs to our area and they have added the Sequoia and Seana lines. Now with the downturn in truck sales, they are consolidating the whole truck line to Texas.
Dodge has been running adds for 50% off.
Honda is moving all Goldwing production back to Japan.
GM and Ford are not the only ones in trouble in the US.

Honda is going to make cars at the Goldwing plant. THE GW's will be part crated in like the rest of the metric lineups and assembled here in the US. I got my GMC at employee pricing plus 5k off 2 weeks ago. Sweet deals if you can afford to buy right now. I work in a union shop at UPS and yes we make great money if your full time BUT that's all we get (benefits included). Management however gets a minimum of $10k in stock options plus salary and bonuses (that's entry level management mind you). So imagine what the Big Dogs make. That's the problem.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Sorry, but the UAW didn't hire and then keep promoting Jacques Nasser, nor did it put all those do-nothing clowns on the board of directors.  The problems at Ford were created by mismanagement, plain and simple.  And having a bunch of family members controlling the majority of the voting stock (8 votes per share of family only B class stock) surely didn't help (how do you think all those do-nothing board members got their jobs?)

Jerry

BTW, I don't remember the American auto companies saying they couldn't make money because of union wages.  If you do a little research you will find that Toyota (and Honda and Nissan) pay very similar wages in their U.S. plants.  Where the American companies have a big issue is in the legacy costs related to pensions and health care. 

Union Wages are not the issue I agree, I was in a non union auto plant for a few years.  The issue is, at least with GM, they have three workers in a union plant for every one worker in a non union plant, and it is even worse in the maintenace end of it. 

AC/Delco spark plug plant for example had 8 maintenace guys per shift for the four spark plug lines, Denso had 2 maintenace guys per shift for four spark plug lines, and we made 100,000 more plugs in 24 hours than AC/Delco.  That is becuase under union rules you have to have a guy from each trade, where non union, all maintenance guys are multi craft.

Another big issue is the American auto compaines have way more management than Toyota or Honda.

[Robmay]

The "problem" is that most americans want to whine about what the "big dogs" make instead of going to work to become one themselves. I'll copy and paste my "outsourcing" perspective from another topic.............

If I could add my 2 cents about outsourcing from another perspective. I am in the middle of a Department of Labor audit. I have ALWAYS taken good care of all the people I am and have been responsible for, but they do not look at things objectively when they audit your wage and earnings. I won't go into details as it won't change whatever they decide. But if someone "says" you owe them more money after they are fired or quit, it is up to you to prove them wrong (guilty until proven innocent at your expense). So you either pay a pile of money to prove you are innocent, or pay a pile of money to the government as they have to make money for the time they spent doing the actual investigation.

But OUR government makes it such a pain in the a$$ to try and run a business.

Also, you have, what seems to me, the majority of people anymore who don't want to work and out of the one's that do, they feel you owe them something big just for doing the job they were hired to do. Or, they have no pride in workmanship. They just worry about making their 40 and going home, no matter what the quality of their work is. Isn't their fault if it comes out wrong, or its poorly made. Why would it be their fault? Nothing ever is. There is always some situation or circumstance or agency making new rules. Companies have to hire people just to keep up with the rules. I know, I just had to do this.

There then comes a time when big business say's "hey, we can get this kind of crappy workmanship "over there" except they will be more than HAPPY to have a job and they will be more then happy to do it for a lot less. In fact, since we don't have to jump thru all the governmental hoops, and hire people just to keep up with all of the red tape, feel good, bull Sh!t, we can make it over there, ship it back over here, get the same "craftmanship" that MOST (I didn't say ALL) of Americans are turning out now and make more money doing it with a lot less headaches and the people we hire to do it will actually appreciate it and it will be helping their communities..... (talk about your run on sentence).


just my opinion and we know what those are like....

[NWbiker]

I'll drive my Chevy and ride my Harley with no complaints but just a lot of pride.  

[FLSTFI Dave]

I'll drive my Chevy and ride my Harley with no complaints but just a lot of pride.  

Yep, my vehicles are American made, 03 Halrey, 06 GMC 3500, 07 Impala and wifes 07 Harley, and my soon to be 09 SERG

[BigR55]

If I could add my 2 cents about outsourcing from another perspective. I am in the middle of a Department of Labor audit. I have ALWAYS taken good care of all the people I am and have been responsible for, but they do not look at things objectively when they audit your wage and earnings. I won't go into details as it won't change whatever they decide. But if someone "says" you owe them more money after they are fired or quit, it is up to you to prove them wrong (guilty until pr oven innocent at your expense). So you either pay a pile of money to prove you are innocent, or pay a pile of money to the government as they have to make money for the time they spent doing the actual investigation.

But OUR government makes it such a pain in the a$$ to try and run a business.

In fact, since we don't have to jump Thrugh all the governmental hoops, and hire people just to keep up with all of the red tape, feel good, bull Sh!t, we can make it over there, ship it back over here, get the same "craftmanship" that MOST (I didn't say ALL) of Americans are turning out now and make more money doing it with a lot less headaches and the people we hire to do it will actually appreciate it and it will be helping their communities..... (talk about your run on sentence).
just my opinion and we know what those are like....

While all this is going on, nothing is being made by the people involved AND what is being made by the rest of the workers is being eaten up by the cost of our government "protecting" us.

Meanwhile, China is going through it's industrial revolution and making container loads of stuff for wally world and every other product we consume. We do not want to ignore the enviourment, worker safety and wages but there has to be something in between. We can not even make a football helmet much less an general aviation airplane.

Here is a Chinese scooter that sells for $1450.00, less than a CVO tourpack. Subtract the freight, import tax and profit from three points of distribution from that could not leave much more than $900.00 for the manufacturer and they still made a profit.

Fifty cents an hour would be a pay raise for me!
 

[Muley]

[
Here is a Chinese scooter that sells for $1450.00, less than a CVO tourpack. Subtract the freight, import tax and profit from three points of distribution from that could not leave much more than $900.00 for the manufacturer and they still made a profit.

Fifty cents an hour would be a pay raise for me!
 
[/quote]


And the damn thing even has a tour pack!!!