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[Keats]

Sit on the bike, put it in first, walk it forward, letting the clutch out untiol it grabs.

Yes, that would get you close.  I have my 08 that engages so far out that a piece of ribbon disengage my clutch when it flew into the clutch lever.

[FullBagger]

Sit on the bike, put it in first, walk it forward, letting the clutch out until it grabs.

While pushing it works.
I was permitted to start the bike while it was on the floor.
Clutch grabbed "about" half way out like all of the others I tested on showroom floors. Others I rented or borrowed, including a 2014 trike.

[Keats]

Let me see if I understand.
You take the bike to the dealer and they tell you the bike is normal and works like it should.

You question them and they let you see other bikes on their floor and let you start them and the test confirms your suspicion.

How do they explain the difference?

I must be missing something.

[FullBagger]

Let me see if I understand.
You take the bike to the dealer and they tell you the bike is normal and works like it should.
You question them and they let you see other bikes on their floor and let you start them and the test confirms your suspicion.
How do they explain the difference?
I must be missing something.

Yes!
Do you believe it?

The sales people and service folks just look at me and say "They are all different". (With the exception of the dealer I am currently working with)
My question to them was "If there are no adjustments, all parts are manufactured the same and they are installed in full size dressers. Then why the heck is mine so far out"?
The answers came from what looked like a "dear in headlights" with shrugging shoulders. They all said about the same. "There is no adjustment and there is nothing we can do because it is functioning."
 
Technically, they are correct. I let the clutch out and the bike moves. ALL IS GOOD!!!!!  RIGHT?

I'm just amazed that I had to debate this technicality and then search for someone who will do the right thing. Fix it. Or at least attempt to.

[Eqcons]

Eqcons,

My bike is scheduled in on Saturday!
I will post as soon as possible after the installation.
I hope this is the cure!

Done?

[FullBagger]

Sorry for the delay .... Unavoidable.

NO, not fixed!  But not the end of the story.
I tried to type this response several times but since I don't understand how the entire clutch system works, I cannot post with any accuracy or knowledgeable information.
But here goes:
Something about the clutch and it having excessive wear where it rides in the cage.  I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Bottom line, they still are not certain what is causing the problem but something seems to be binding where the clutch pack lives in the transmission. This is causing excessive wear and may be the problem. They are still working out the details with HD and what to do about it.

Again, sorry for the delay and I will keep this thread updated.

[Eqcons]

Sorry for the delay .... Unavoidable.

NO, not fixed!  But not the end of the story.
I tried to type this response several times but since I don't understand how the entire clutch system works, I cannot post with any accuracy or knowledgeable information.
But here goes:
Something about the clutch and it having excessive wear where it rides in the cage.  I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Bottom line, they still are not certain what is causing the problem but something seems to be binding where the clutch pack lives in the transmission. This is causing excessive wear and may be the problem. They are still working out the details with HD and what to do about it.

Again, sorry for the delay and I will keep this thread updated.

Damn, that's a pity!   

[FullBagger]

Damn, that's a pity!   

Yes it is but, they have not thrown in the towel yet. There is still hope that it will be fixed.
I am just glad that the dealership took this clutch issue on.
We never like hearing there is a problem but better to find out while it's on the mechanic's lift than to have it on a hook to the nearest mechanic.

[grc]

Seems pretty simple to me, but there again H-D is populated with simpletons who can't figure out simple things.

1.  Find a new bike that the dealership and the customer agree operates satisfactorily.

2.  Remove the entire clutch assembly from that bike (not just the plates, the entire thing).

3.  Install the complete clutch assembly in your bike.

4.  Operate your bike and see if this has cured your problem.

5   If it does, send you on your way and let the dealership ship your complete clutch assembly to H-D for them to figure out (assuming they can).

6.  Harley to ship a complete clutch assembly to the dealer to replace the one they took from the bike in inventory.

This isn't something I just dreamed up after consuming excessive quantities of mind altering substances, btw.  I actually did a few similar things back in the old days as a field service engineer/rep in the auto business.  There comes a time when the manufacturer needs to step up and get the customer's vehicle fixed ASAP, and then worry about what the root cause of the problem is once the customer is taken care of.

Jerry

Btw, we didn't have lemon laws back in those days to motivate manufacturers to do the right thing on a timely basis.  These days most states do in fact have such laws, and something as important as safe and proper engagement of a clutch should definitely be covered.  If this had been my bike, I'd have been in touch with an attorney a long time ago.

[FullBagger]

grc,

I'm just about there.

Had a new diesel VW that was in the shop over 90 days total in the first 7 months. It would not start hot (no trouble codes). They found that the clearance between the piston and cylinder walls were wrong. Dealer said they were going to rebuild the engine. Rebuild the engine in my new car, I don't think so. Contacted an attorney and VW wrote me a check to buy the car back.
Sounds simple but you have to jump through the right hoops at the right time to be successful with a lemon law buy back and it takes time.
If we determine that we have to go to arbitration or mediation to make me whole, then so be it. I'd rather not but the attorney I used with VW is still practicing.... I checked. If it's not fixed soon, I'll reach out to him.

The problem is, I did not play this right. Up until the current dealer, there were no shop orders created for the problem (That I know of). Just discussions, bleeding and test riding but I don't think there were any official service tickets. That may bite me in the a$$.
Although I did call HD direct and complain about the problem much earlier. That may help.

[FullBagger]

Update....

Replaced the clutch and master cylinder.
This seems to have done the trick. I say seems because I did not have a lot of time in the saddle this weekend.
I still have a little clutch movement remaining when it is fully engaged. I said a little but remember that I had no clutch lever movement left before these replacements.
I was able to ride 2 up for a little while and I am satisfied at this point. If I were to tailor the clutch to my liking, I would still move the engagement point closer to the grip but it is not adjustable. It seemed to get better after a little riding. At first, I did not notice much difference. Could be that I just got used to it.

Something interesting though. Before the clutch replacement, the primary was getting noisy. A good deal of knocking and rattling coming from what sounded like the compensator. It is now quiet! Like it was when I first took delivery.

Should put a few hundred miles on it this weekend and will update then.

I want to thank everyone for their input and support. The clutch was dangerous and unmanageable. I only hope it stays fixed.

Eqcons,

If yours is as bad as mine was, keep looking for a dealer that will fight for you. I can actually feather the break AND clutch in slow tight turns. The clutch is no longer an on/off switch! May get a few more miles from the rear brakes now.

[Eqcons]

Sounds like good news.  I'll take mine to the dealer this week. I think.

[grc]

..........................................

grc,

If yours is as bad as mine was, keep looking for a dealer that will fight for you. I can actually feather the break AND clutch in slow tight turns. The clutch is no longer an on/off switch! May get a few more miles from the rear breaks now.

Mine has been fine for about ten years now.   It sucked big time when I first bought the bike, but I fixed that by thoroughly bleeding the system a couple times to get all the air out.  Once the plates were broken in, and I started running ATF in the primary, I've been able to feather mine about the same as with a cable clutch.  The problems with the older bikes was usually a release and engage point right at the grip, just the opposite of your problem.  Usually bleeding the system completely, which takes time and patience, would solve most of the early model problems.  Since then Harley has made changes to the master cylinders, and not for the better as best I can tell, and of course recently changed to the Assist & Slip clutch, which is a very poor and cheaply made version of a slipper clutch.  Another change they should have put back on the shelf in the prototype stage.

Did the dealership replace both the clutch and the M/C at the same time?  If so, I wish they had only done one thing at a time to help prove which component was the real problem.  Considering all the abnormal wear of the clutch parts and the noise, I'm betting on that cheap A&S clutch.

Jerry

[FullBagger]

They did replace both at the same time. Wish they could have separated them but this was my 3rd or 4th time in service and they wanted to get it all done at one time.
The M/C had already been rebuilt so I am assuming that it was the clutch also.
All I can say is that if it stays where it is now, I should be happy! That is a far cry from where I was with this clutch.

[RonandJanet]

Glad it is fixed now!   How far out is the lever before you start feeling the engagement? I kept hearing it was about 90%. My clutch seems to still be fine. Hope it stays that way.