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[JCZ]

"SAE Smoothing" in the upper right corner explains the difference in numbers vs. the graph.

[PCC]

Hey guys! Since you both live closeby, it'd be interesting to see how those numbers compare to the Freedom Cycle Dynojet 250 up here in Reno. The two owners, Mark and Brad Yuill have so much experience with these things (they raced pro stock with the big boys) for over 20 years. They also have a catalog of results (baseline and modified) for TC 88,95, 103, 113, 116 and evo's.
MagnaCharger uses them exclusively for delphi fuely's and they helped to design Edelbrock's TC heads. they also have a proprietary version of Rinehart true duels which give better results than any 2-1. these guys are THE best you will find anywhere... 775-848-9696 Mark...775-848-8600 Brad.

By the way Kingsalmon... your results are similar to an 03 SERK they did up here. http://flhrsei.org/YaBBImages/smilies/huepfenjump3.gif[smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

[Cabo]

they also have a proprietary version of Rinehart true duels which give better results than any 2-1. http://flhrsei.org/YaBBImages/smilies/huepfenjump3.gif[smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif] [smiley=huepfenjump3.gif]

Oh My..waiting for JCZ  [smiley=behead.gif]

[JCZ]

Oh My..waiting for JCZ

[PCC]

JCZ:
Freedom has modified version of the Rinehart's (with permission from Gerald Rinehart). The sections are slightly different in length because the pipes were originally made for supercharged delphi baggers. They also have chrome Freedom Cycle end caps instead of anodized caps. As far as the 2-1 your general theory is correct. Almost all of our little group has run Pro Pipes for years, but with these fuel injected bikes the major variable is MAPPING. With a proper map, on an inertial dyno, the Freedom (Rinehart) true duals will make more power than the Pro Pipe.

By the way although Byron and Terry no longer own Vance and Hines, the Yuills are very good friends with these guys and were quite loyal to the 2-1.

I gather from your posts, that you are something of a Motorhead, as I am. I think you would enjoy talking to Brad Yuill about their results 775 848-8600. Remember, the guy used to race with the likes of Bob Glidden and other pro stockers. These guys do better mapping than Dynojet themselves...no lie.

[PCC]

I forgot to mention, in my last post, that BUB manufactures these pipes specifically for Freedom Cycle. They are not Rinehart's that Freedom has modified themselves. I will try to get my Dyno sheet scanned soon but my bike has had the heads flowed, proprietary Freedom Cycle cams, Freedom pipes and a power Commander. It has not had an ECM mod, so the rev limiter is still set at 5700 RPM. It makes 109hp and 121 ft. lbs. torque. It has 100 ft. lbs. or more from 2600 to 5500 rpm and 110 or more from 2800 to 5000 rpm. Brad builds these motors for torque and streetability. That should be enough LOW END torque for you!! You owe it to yourself to contact them. [smiley=beerchug.gif] [smiley=worthless.gif] [smiley=worthless.gif] [smiley=worthless.gif] [smiley=worthless.gif]

[JCZ]

JCZ:
Freedom has modified version of the Rinehart's (with permission from Gerald Rinehart). The sections are slightly different in length because the pipes were originally made for supercharged delphi baggers. They also have chrome Freedom Cycle end caps instead of anodized caps. As far as the 2-1 your general theory is correct. Almost all of our little group has run Pro Pipes for years, but with these fuel injected bikes the major variable is MAPPING. With a proper map, on an inertial dyno, the Freedom (Rinehart) true duals will make more power than the Pro Pipe.

By the way although Byron and Terry no longer own Vance and Hines, the Yuills are very good friends with these guys and were quite loyal to the 2-1.

I gather from your posts, that you are something of a Motorhead, as I am. I think you would enjoy talking to Brad Yuill about their results 775 848-8600. Remember, the guy used to race with the likes of Bob Glidden and other pro stockers. These guys do better mapping than Dynojet themselves...no lie.

True Duals generally generate greater "peak" numbers but we were talking about "usuable" power, in the lower rpm range.  It looks like you have that low  end power and I can't wait to see your dyno sheet.  Those are numbers that I'd certainly be happy with.

I don't claim to be a motorhead, my knowledge is real limited compared to three of my partners, however, I do understand the basic stuff and breathing in and out is the name of the game for motors.  I think I'll give those guys a call and go visit them, the next time I'm up in Reno.  You've got me curious, now.

Tell me, if you don't mind, everything that they've done to your bike (heads? valves? valve springs, oil pump, etc. etc?)  and the cost if you're open to that?  I know a great motor builder, I just don't have the money to play in their league, I need reliability first.

[PCC]

I'm sure your motor builder friend and others will confirm that all the components of the motor need to work together to produce the max horsepower, but on an EFI setup the mapping is the biggest varaible simply because there aren't alot of guys who know how to do it properly. The shop needs an inertial dyno so that they can measure air/fuel, under load, at useable throttle positions and rpm. That's where the big dip in torque comes from in the dyno sheets that you refer to, not necessarily because a guy is using a two into one or duals, believe me, I have no such dip in my sheet.

As far as parts go, you'd have to talk to Brad Yuill about that. He did the headwork and the cams are ground for Freedom by Andrews to their specs. Understanably, Brad won't divulge the details. I can tell you that the pistons are stock. I have a gear drive setup.

You mentioned reliability. I ride with a group of folks (about 40 of them) all of whom have Freedom work on their bikes exclusively. Each of them has had motor mods ranging from air cleaner, pipes and Power Commander to superchaged 116's with head mod's, cams etc. Not a single one of these bikes is built to exceed 6200 rpm (stage 1) and the vast majority are built to the 5700 stock rev limit. The power comes at passing rpm usually somewhere around 2400-2800 and extends as far and as strong as it can with the components employed. The reliability comes from the low rev limits. A lot of these dyno sheets are similar in terms of peak numbers. I haven't seen any which can achieve more torque at lower rpm's with as wide an rpm range as these guys. Seems to me That's what you're looking for.

[JCZ]

I'm sure your motor builder friend and others will confirm that all the components of the motor need to work together to produce the max horsepower, but on an EFI setup the mapping is the biggest varaible simply because there aren't alot of guys who know how to do it properly. The shop needs an inertial dyno so that they can measure air/fuel, under load, at useable throttle positions and rpm. That's where the big dip in torque comes from in the dyno sheets that you refer to, not necessarily because a guy is using a two into one or duals, believe me, I have no such dip in my sheet.

As far as parts go, you'd have to talk to Brad Yuill about that. He did the headwork and the cams are ground for Freedom by Andrews to their specs. Understanably, Brad won't divulge the details. I can tell you that the pistons are stock. I have a gear drive setup.

You mentioned reliability. I ride with a group of folks (about 40 of them) all of whom have Freedom work on their bikes exclusively. Each of them has had motor mods ranging from air cleaner, pipes and Power Commander to superchaged 116's with head mod's, cams etc. Not a single one of these bikes is built to exceed 6200 rpm (stage 1) and the vast majority are built to the 5700 stock rev limit. The power comes at passing rpm usually somewhere around 2400-2800 and extends as far and as strong as it can with the components employed. The reliability comes from the low rev limits. A lot of these dyno sheets are similar in terms of peak numbers. I haven't seen any which can achieve more torque at lower rpm's with as wide an rpm range as these guys. Seems to me That's what you're looking for.

PCC where's your dyno sheet?   [smiley=worthless.gif]

I'm anxious to see it.  Supposed to be 76 degrees by Tuesday.  Maybe I'll take a ride up to Reno in the next couple weeks and talk to the guys a Freedom.

[Kingsalmon]

I got a call from Fremont HD today and they found a but in the Dyno software that made the lines on the graph not match the numbers. They installed a patch and said it was all better and I should be getting some new sheets in the mail soon. I will re-post or have JCZ re - post my numbers since I messed up the last posting.

If you get your bike dyno tuned make sure the graph matches the numbers. If they don't match tell them to call the vendor and get the patch.

[pj57]

New to this site guys...thanks for having me. Picked up my Cobalt SEEG last month. 2.5Kmiles and counting. Motor mods:

[SERK103]

On a scale of 1 - 10.....10 being the 2 1/4 stock baffles, how much "quieter" are the 2" baffles.  you called them the "quiet baffles".  thanks ....

[JCZ]

New to this site guys...thanks for having me. Picked up my Cobalt SEEG last month. 2.5Kmiles and counting. Motor mods:

[gb]

Hey PJ, welcome to the site. Great isn't it!. Just bought my reinharts but haven't recd them yet. Ship date of 3/15. I too chose them because of the look ad sound. One thing though, the tech at BUB specifically told me not to use the 2". They instead suggested the 2 1/4" and to pack them with fiberglass sound deadening (specially made for mufflers of course). But I guess that has the same effect. The back pressure (or rather lack of) is what causes the drop in torque, but hey...what the hell. I guess I'll find out when I put them on. Thanks for the info on the pipes and welcome [smiley=beerchug.gif].
PS. If you don't mind my asking, what did the cams set you back and who did you have do the work?

[JCZ]

Hey PJ, welcome to the site. Great isn't it!. Just bought my reinharts but haven't recd them yet. Ship date of 3/15. I too chose them because of the look ad sound. One thing though, the tech at BUB specifically told me not to use the 2". They instead suggested the 2 1/4" and to pack them with fiberglass sound deadening (specially made for mufflers of course). But I guess that has the same effect. The back pressure (or rather lack of) is what causes the drop in torque, but hey...what the hell. I guess I'll find out when I put them on. Thanks for the info on the pipes and welcome [smiley=beerchug.gif].
PS. If you don't mind my asking, what did the cams set you back and who did you have do the work?

I know a guy in Ariz. (he runs the dyno dept. of MMI, Motorcycle Mechanics Institute) that can put those cams in.  He's done a lot of them on the 103" and sent me the dyno sheets that I posted.  I put his phone number on one of the posts, but if you want it, send me a PM.