Topic: Normal running temp on a CVO + Liquid Cooled Heads (Read 18278 times)

ZVO · « **on:** April 13, 2015, 12:03:27 PM »

Yesterday I was riding and hit some traffic, my 15 CVO Street Glide was running at 357 Temp...when the hell does the cooling start? Or am I wrong in thinking that the liquid cooled heads does not generally keep the overall bike cool just the heads?

If so then damn was I wrong about this bike in thinking it was never gonna over heat on me!

panz · « **Reply #1 on:** April 13, 2015, 12:45:09 PM »

ZVO...what you really need are liquid cooled exhaust pipes!! In all seriousness, your exhausts are what is retaining the heat more then the motor. The combination of the two creates hot, hot. Change your exhaust to catless pipes and 20/30 % of the heat will be gone. Liquid cooled heats cool about the same or a little better then bikes with oil coolers on them. Jmo. I have owned both.

charles05663 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 13, 2015, 02:20:16 PM »

Quote from: ZVO on April 13, 2015, 12:03:27 PM

Yesterday I was riding and hit some traffic, my 15 CVO Street Glide was running at 357 Temp...when the hell does the cooling start? Or am I wrong in thinking that the liquid cooled heads does not generally keep the overall bike cool just the heads?

If so then damn was I wrong about this bike in thinking it was never gonna over heat on me!

What temp hit that high? Was not sure from your statement. Oil? Head temp?

If it is oil, the highest I ever saw was 240 degrees.

ZVO · « **Reply #3 on:** April 13, 2015, 02:22:31 PM »

Oil temp was 357 on my road glide in traffic with just an oil cooler I was never higher than 238

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grc · « **Reply #4 on:** April 13, 2015, 04:47:37 PM »

Quote from: ZVO on April 13, 2015, 12:03:27 PM

Yesterday I was riding and hit some traffic, my 15 CVO Street Glide was running at 357 Temp...when the hell does the cooling start? Or am I wrong in thinking that the liquid cooled heads does not generally keep the overall bike cool just the heads?

If so then damn was I wrong about this bike in thinking it was never gonna over heat on me!

The hottest part of the engine is the heads, and the hottest part of the heads is the area around the exhaust port. That is the area that is cooled by the liquid coolant on a Twin Cooled bike. If you tap into the data stream and read the head temperature as reported to the ECM by the sensor in the front cylinder head, I'd be willing to bet the temperature on a properly working Twin Cooled bike will be significantly lower than the head temp on one of the air cooled bikes, especially in long periods of slow or no air movement over the engine.

Where exactly are you measuring 357°, and what are you using to measure it?

Jerry

ZVO · « **Reply #5 on:** April 13, 2015, 04:56:06 PM »

Quote from: grc on April 13, 2015, 04:47:37 PM

The hottest part of the engine is the heads, and the hottest part of the heads is the area around the exhaust port. That is the area that is cooled by the liquid coolant on a Twin Cooled bike. If you tap into the data stream and read the head temperature as reported to the ECM by the sensor in the front cylinder head, I'd be willing to bet the temperature on a properly working Twin Cooled bike will be significantly lower than the head temp on one of the air cooled bikes, especially in long periods of slow or no air movement over the engine.

Where exactly are you measuring 357°, and what are you using to measure it?

Jerry

I have the dipstick with the temp gauge in the oil reservoir.

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skycat · « **Reply #6 on:** April 13, 2015, 05:53:54 PM »

WOW that is to high, there must be something wrong with your gauge. Here in Sydney on a summers day 42 deg C about 115F, My 1450 dyna oil temp never goes over 95C / 205F even in stop start traffic. it has an oil cooler kit fitted.

Jswerve · « **Reply #7 on:** April 13, 2015, 06:09:46 PM »

My guess would be the gauge is malfunctioning.

phato1 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 13, 2015, 08:02:31 PM »

Quote from: ZVO on April 13, 2015, 04:56:06 PM

I have the dipstick with the temp gauge in the oil reservoir.

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The Harley digital temperature dipsticks are notorious for being inaccurate. If you're concerned with the operating temp you could use an infrared temp "gun" to check your cylinder and head temps.

Does the "infotainment" system provide a readout of the engine temp as seen by the twin cooling sensors on the '15's?

ZVO · « **Reply #9 on:** April 13, 2015, 08:24:26 PM »

Sorry I was mistaken it was 257
The readout on the screen only shows Air Temp, oil PsI, and wether or not EITMD is enabled or disabled.

bakon · « **Reply #10 on:** April 13, 2015, 08:33:42 PM »

I kept the oil temp dipstick from my 2010 limited with Andrews 57 cam. On 2010 I was about 240 most time. On this 2015 CVO Limited I run about 10-15 degrees warmer! Same headpipes on both, VH Power duals, which has no cat and is 2:1:2 for nice pipe.
http://products.vanceandhines.com/store/16759/

SEPRT download too. Just are hot at 110 compared to 103 I was guessing.

ZVO · « **Reply #11 on:** April 13, 2015, 08:35:30 PM »

Quote from: bakon on April 13, 2015, 08:33:42 PM

I kept the oil temp dipstick from my 2010 limited with Andrews 57 cam. On 2010 I was about 240 most time. On this 2015 CVO Limited I run about 10-15 degrees warmer!

gotcha...I will be installing a High Cap oil pan during my 1000 mile service so that should cool things down even further.

bakon · « **Reply #12 on:** April 13, 2015, 08:38:00 PM »

Like to put an oil cooler on it. Ran oil cooler since 2000 on all touring bikes and never had one problem

grc · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2015, 09:01:19 PM »

257°F oil temperature is perfectly fine and absolutely no reason for alarm. Use a good quality synthetic oil and don't worry about it.

Jerry

East Coast · « **Reply #14 on:** April 13, 2015, 09:11:04 PM »

Quote from: ZVO on April 13, 2015, 08:35:30 PM

gotcha...I will be installing a High Cap oil pan during my 1000 mile service so that should cool things down even further.

Dont waste your money, it'll just take a little longer for the oil to reach that tempature. Replace the stock header and mufflers and add a fuel tuner. Additionally, I've read numerous posts on this fourm which state the 255 cams contribute to the heat. Down the road if it continues to bother you a cam change will help as well.

As Jerry mentioned above a good synthethic oil goes a long way.

bakon · « **Reply #15 on:** April 13, 2015, 09:14:05 PM »

Quote from: grc on April 13, 2015, 09:01:19 PM

257°F oil temperature is perfectly fine and absolutely no reason for alarm. Use a good quality synthetic oil and don't worry about it.

Jerry

Royalroadie · « **Reply #16 on:** April 13, 2015, 10:57:31 PM »

I would only start to worry if your oil temp goes past 275. Mine used to get above that. I add a fan assisted oil cooler, Ward's fans, TTS tuner, and a Dyno tune. It runs about 35* cooler. When the warranty is up I will do new cams and oil pump.

jpswino · « **Reply #17 on:** April 15, 2015, 01:25:12 PM »

Keep in mind ideal oil temps should go above the boiling point of water in order to evaporate condensation in your system. I deal temps therefore must be above 212F or 100C. I don't think you should have concerns under 240-250F. Above that and you may need some assistance.

grc · « **Reply #18 on:** April 15, 2015, 02:28:04 PM »

The design spec for the Twin Cam engines was 230°F oil temperature at a standard ambient air temperature, roughly 70°F. That was back before the engines got bigger and the tune for emissions made them run hotter. These days, I'd expect a stock bike to run over 240°F oil temp, and go up from there when the ambient temps are higher and riding conditions are less than ideal. A good synthetic oil will easily handle well over 300°F. Ideally I'd like to keep it under 250, but it's not something I worry about. I don't even have one of those unreliable dipsticks, and don't feel the need to check oil temps anyway. As I've mentioned before to all those who obsess over oil temps and want to be able to constantly monitor them, what do you plan to do if your oil temp exceeds your personal idea of a good maximum, pull over and park for an hour or two to let things cool down, or use some common sense?

Jerry

CVOStreetglide · « **Reply #19 on:** April 15, 2015, 02:46:16 PM »

Quote from: grc on April 15, 2015, 02:28:04 PM

The design spec for the Twin Cam engines was 230°F oil temperature at a standard ambient air temperature, roughly 70°F. That was back before the engines got bigger and the tune for emissions made them run hotter. These days, I'd expect a stock bike to run over 240°F oil temp, and go up from there when the ambient temps are higher and riding conditions are less than ideal. A good synthetic oil will easily handle well over 300°F. Ideally I'd like to keep it under 250, but it's not something I worry about. I don't even have one of those unreliable dipsticks, and don't feel the need to check oil temps anyway. As I've mentioned before to all those who obsess over oil temps and want to be able to constantly monitor them, what do you plan to do if your oil temp exceeds your personal idea of a good maximum, pull over and park for an hour or two to let things cool down, or use some common sense?

Jerry

Additional thoughts to the preceding posts, I'm thinking you are running a little hot because the motor is still relatively new since you haven't even done your 1st 1,000 mile oil service yet.

There's lots of pieces and parts including rings that need to seat and wear in. After you change the oil AND the primary and transmission fluids (my own personal preference) things should start to be somewhat cooler. Installing a tuner and catless header and freer flowing mufflers will be value adds.

I am assuming your thermal cooling fans were coming on and you may have experienced "parade mode" where the rear cylinder in the motor stops firing and the motor runs rough and sounds funny when you are stopped and starts smoothing out again when your RPM's are above 1,000 (I personally hate this feature).

I am currently experiencing the same thing on my 2015 CVO Street Glide.

Regards

Jerry (also)

TNCarters · « **Reply #20 on:** April 15, 2015, 02:51:50 PM »

I've been caught several times in bumper to bumper traffic in 95 degree days on my Limited 103. I had a HD dipstick gauge on it till it quit and have frequently seen temps above 280 F. I run Mobil 1 oil for this reason and change about every 3000-4000 miles in summer. Tend to not get too concerned until motor starts to develop a miss and pressure at idle gets extremely low. Needless to say my legs are roasting by this point between ambient temp and exhaust heat. Guess I need a parade fan for these situations. Rode bike about a hundred miles one day in 105 degree temps and oil stayed below 260 as I was able to keep moving. Think my Limited runs a little hot anyway.

ZVO · « **Reply #21 on:** April 15, 2015, 03:13:00 PM »

Thanks for the info

CVOStreetglide · « **Reply #22 on:** April 15, 2015, 03:16:28 PM »

Quote from: ZVO on April 15, 2015, 03:13:00 PM

Thanks for the info

SUGGESTION: You should consider taking your bike to Rosa's Cycle and letting Andrew do his thing.

ZVO · « **Reply #23 on:** April 15, 2015, 08:27:29 PM »

Quote from: CVOStreetglide on April 15, 2015, 03:16:28 PM

SUGGESTION: You should consider taking your bike to Rosa's Cycle and letting Andrew do his thing.

I will google Rosa's cycle can you elaborate?

East Coast · « **Reply #24 on:** April 15, 2015, 09:01:01 PM »

Rosa Cycle in Huntington is one of the best Indy shops in our area for motor work and Dyno tuning! I had some motor work done there in 2007 on my 2002 Heritage Springer. I still have the bike and it runs freaking awesome! I would highly recommend them to anyone looking for motor work and or dyno tuning. Rosa's is a no BS very professional motorcycle shop.

CVO Streetglide is suggesting you take your bike there and get it Dyno'd after you upgrade your exhaust system and add a fuel management system. Or... have them do it up for you. which will get pricey for sure. You'll save yourself a few bucks if you install the exhaust system and fuel management yourself which they will modify on the dyno machine. It will run 100% better and cooler.

FYI They have there own fuel management system they like to use, I forget what its called? Andrew also likes the HD SE Race Tuner as well.

www.rosascycle.com check them out.

CVOStreetglide · « **Reply #25 on:** April 16, 2015, 07:04:23 PM »

Quote from: East Coast on April 15, 2015, 09:01:01 PM

Rosa Cycle in Huntington is one of the best Indy shops in our area for motor work and Dyno tuning! I had some motor work done there in 2007 on my 2002 Heritage Springer. I still have the bike and it runs freaking awesome! I would highly recommend them to anyone looking for motor work and or dyno tuning. Rosa's is a no BS very professional motorcycle shop.

CVO Streetglide is suggesting you take your bike there and get it Dyno'd after you upgrade your exhaust system and add a fuel management system. Or... have them do it up for you. which will get pricey for sure. You'll save yourself a few bucks if you install the exhaust system and fuel management yourself which they will modify on the dyno machine. It will run 100% better and cooler.

FYI They have there own fuel management system they like to use, I forget what its called? Andrew also likes the HD SE Race Tuner as well.

www.rosascycle.com check them out.

You're dead on regarding the message I was trying to convey. As you well know Andrew has some strong opinions regarding what exhaust and tuning parts will work the best. If I were closer, I would drop mine off.

I think you'll agree that he should just tell Andrew what you want to accomplish (cooler, run better, more performance--etc.) NOT how or what to use to do it.

Down here we have the famous DOC who can twist a good wrench as well and he's closer.

Regards

Jerry

East Coast · « **Reply #26 on:** April 17, 2015, 12:02:33 AM »

Jerry,
Yes, Andrew definitely has strong opinions about his motor work/performance upgrades and agree it would be wise not to tell him how to do it, lol. When I dropped my Springer off I told him what I was looking for out of the motor and he suggested the cams to use and rebuilt the top end around it and the dyno was perect. A lot of R&D goes on there and one would be foolish to not listen to his advice.

I hear nothing but good things about DOC, lucky for you he is nearby. Did you relocate to Fla from the Island?

Have a great weekend, Erich

CVOSGJoe · « **Reply #27 on:** April 17, 2015, 10:13:23 AM »

ZVO..... If you looking for the best upgrade without needing a Indy/dealer tune/dyno, check out Fuel Moto and aquire the 2-1-2 header, some slip-ons and the PV-2 tuner with a FM map that will come with it and I can guarantee you will be a very happy camper. (Of course till you read around and find out with cams you can get more, and then head work gets you even more and so on)..... But seriously Jamie has a map for that bike that will cool it down and get you in the high 88+ for HP and 106+ for tq. Ask me how I know. Jamie and the boys at FM know there chit!!!

harleyrules · « **Reply #28 on:** April 17, 2015, 12:50:55 PM »

I will be moving to Florida Very Shortly. Can someone give me information on "DOC"?

I will also try doing a search, thanks for the help.

Fired00d · « **Reply #29 on:** April 17, 2015, 03:46:14 PM »

Quote from: harleyrules on April 17, 2015, 12:50:55 PM

I will be moving to Florida Very Shortly. Can someone give me information on "DOC"?

I will also try doing a search, thanks for the help.

TTS V-Tuner Member Discount

Ride Safe,
Fired00d

harleyrules · « **Reply #30 on:** April 18, 2015, 06:58:03 PM »

Thank you very much

CVOStreetglide · « **Reply #31 on:** April 18, 2015, 07:51:50 PM »

Quote from: harleyrules on April 17, 2015, 12:50:55 PM

I will be moving to Florida Very Shortly. Can someone give me information on "DOC"?

I will also try doing a search, thanks for the help.

Here's Doc's Web Site and contact information. He is a member here and drops in occasionally.

http://www.docsperformancetuning.com

He's one of the best of the best. So I know you will be happy.

Regards

Jerry

Jswerve · « **Reply #32 on:** April 18, 2015, 07:58:52 PM »

Quote from: CVOStreetglide on April 18, 2015, 07:51:50 PM

Here's Doc's Web Site and contact information. He is a member here and drops in occasionally.

http://www.docsperformancetuning.com

He's one of the best of the best. So I know you will be happy.

Regards

Jerry

Jerry a bit off-topic, sorry, but which '12 CVO SG did you own?

Jesse

CVOStreetglide · « **Reply #33 on:** April 18, 2015, 08:34:53 PM »

Quote from: Jswerve on April 18, 2015, 07:58:52 PM

Jerry a bit off-topic, sorry, but which '12 CVO SG did you own?

Jesse

I had the black one. It was gorgeous and in my humble opinion was where HD went to make the 2015 version. If both the 2012 and 2015 were on the floor today I would buy the 2012 again.

I decided to sell it because last March/April after about 20 plus years of pain I decided to "go for it" and get both of my knees replaced back to back. You've read about and encouraged a couple of other members here who had it done and are almost ready to ride again now.

The 2012 had as you well know, flames on the sides of the hard bags as well as the tank, fairing, rear and front fenders.

My 2015 is the Ultra Violet Blue and Hot Lava. It looks good to me and after a TON of research was the one I wanted out of the 5 color versions offered.

You didn't ask but my favorite for graphics and detail was the 2010 Candy Concord Blue. The gold leaf Screamin Eagle on the tank is/was top drawer!!

We are truly Big Boys with Lots of Big Toys!

harleyrules · « **Reply #34 on:** April 18, 2015, 08:45:53 PM »

CVO STREETGLIDE,

Thank you for the web page to DOC. My CVO is the same color as yours. I love the color, when I saw it on display in Daytona Bike Week I had to have one.

Jswerve · « **Reply #35 on:** April 18, 2015, 08:48:35 PM »

Quote from: CVOStreetglide on April 18, 2015, 08:34:53 PM

I had the black one. It was gorgeous and in my humble opinion was where HD went to make the 2015 version. If both the 2012 and 2015 were on the floor today I would buy the 2012 again.

I decided to sell it because last March/April after about 20 plus years of pain I decided to "go for it" and get both of my knees replaced back to back. You've read about and encouraged a couple of other members here who had it done and are almost ready to ride again now.

The 2012 had as you well know, flames on the sides of the hard bags as well as the tank, fairing, rear and front fenders.

My 2015 is the Ultra Violet Blue and Hot Lava. It looks good to me and after a TON of research was the one I wanted out of the 5 color versions offered.

You didn't ask but my favorite for graphics and detail was the 2010 Candy Concord Blue. The gold leaf Screamin Eagle on the tank is/was top drawer!!

We are truly Big Boys with Lots of Big Toys!

I love the Candy Concord 10 and the Tequila 10. I rank those right there with my '12 Ruby Red Typhoon Maroon!

CVOStreetglide · « **Reply #36 on:** April 18, 2015, 09:17:55 PM »

Quote from: harleyrules on April 18, 2015, 08:45:53 PM

CVO STREETGLIDE,

Thank you for the web page to DOC. My CVO is the same color as yours. I love the color, when I saw it on display in Daytona Bike Week I had to have one.

Where did you see it?? Next to Bruce Rossmeyers HD at the hotel? If so it was mine.

Big Sky Fan · « **Reply #37 on:** May 06, 2015, 11:35:32 PM »

Get a oil cooler and one of my fan kits. Your bike will not go into parade mode again.

Phantom309 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 07, 2015, 04:54:36 AM »

My FP3 lets you read some live data and my water temp is always under 200* when moving. Usually around 187*- 200* ... it will creep up some in traffic, but I avoid that like the plague. It really isn't getting hot until you hear your fans turn on ... I think that doesn't happen til around 220* or so. I purposely checked that a while back just to know, but I forget the exact figures.

harleyrules · « **Reply #39 on:** May 07, 2015, 08:57:50 AM »

CVO

I saw it on display at the speedway. Where Harley had the demo rides.

Big Sky Fan · « **Reply #40 on:** May 07, 2015, 09:04:17 AM »

Quote from: jpswino on April 15, 2015, 01:25:12 PM

Keep in mind ideal oil temps should go above the boiling point of water in order to evaporate condensation in your system. I deal temps therefore must be above 212F or 100C. I don't think you should have concerns under 240-250F. Above that and you may need some assistance.

This may be a dumb question but. If the oil temp has to be above 212F in order for water to evaporate, how is it lakes and oceans evaporate thus causing it to rain. I dont beleive that water ever gets close to 212F.

Fired00d · « **Reply #41 on:** May 07, 2015, 09:28:42 AM »

Quote from: Big Sky Fan on May 07, 2015, 09:04:17 AM

This may be a dumb question but. If the oil temp has to be above 212F in order for water to evaporate, how is it lakes and oceans evaporate thus causing it to rain. I dont beleive that water ever gets close to 212F.

Closed system vs. open system... one system is majority oil other is majority water... I think you are comparing apples to oranges.

Ride Safe,
Fired00d

grc · « **Reply #42 on:** May 07, 2015, 09:29:41 AM »

Quote from: Big Sky Fan on May 07, 2015, 09:04:17 AM

This may be a dumb question but. If the oil temp has to be above 212F in order for water to evaporate, how is it lakes and oceans evaporate thus causing it to rain. I dont beleive that water ever gets close to 212F.

Correct. It is a widely held misconception that the oil has to reach 212°F to "boil off" any condensation and fuel in the oil. However, if you don't plan on riding all day to eliminate any condensation, especially in colder climates, it does help to get the oil temp high enough to do the job rapidly. The obsession some have over keeping the oil abnormally cooler than the engine maker's spec. is not helpful, just like those car guys who think they should remove the 200+° thermostats and either run none or something in the 140-160° range. It isn't 1950 anymore, and people need to stop thinking it is. Engines run hotter by design, and the oil formulations have kept pace with the changes in the engines. Trust me, even though people like to make jokes about engineers, we usually do know what we are doing.

Jerry

Indenial · « **Reply #43 on:** May 07, 2015, 03:27:09 PM »

What about the ceramic coatings for the pipes? There used to be a lot of talk about it to decrease the temps of the pipes. I had it done to my 09 and it really reduced the heat. Is it being done anymore.

CVOStreetglide · « **Reply #44 on:** May 07, 2015, 07:16:50 PM »

Quote from: harleyrules on May 07, 2015, 08:57:50 AM

CVO

I saw it on display at the speedway. Where Harley had the demo rides.

Wasn't mine then obviously. There was one sold at Rossmeyers and the guy said he saw mineatthe bar next door and had to have it.

Author Topic: Normal running temp on a CVO + Liquid Cooled Heads (Read 18278 times)