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[Chains]

http://twistedthrottlelifestyle.com/

[2k]

Good read.......why do I find myself wishing it wasn't true.

[HUBBARD]

I don't need a patch on my back to identify who I am, but I respect their space.  Learned that the hard way.  I've also fought the Law, and the Law won.  That was then, this is now.  I will, and do break the laws of our land, as to speed limits.  Always have, always will.  Just can't help it!  Lol.  Other than that small defect of character, I try to abide by the rules, but I do have room for improvement.  I like to read about the 1%'er Lifestyle for some euphoric-recall, but that's it.  Been there, done that.  It will always be interesting to me.  That Ship has sailed.  Too old for that chit now.  But that's just me.  To each his own.  That's what so GREAT about living in AMERICA!  Later--HUBBARD     

[grc]

I've been preaching the same sort of things for more than just a couple years.  I assume the Kool-Aid crowd will bash this article just like they do me when I bring this stuff up, not that I really care.  The sad fact is that top management once again has put H-D on course for failure, and this time I don't see the government bailing them out with import duties and other goodies like they did back in the 80's.  But the top executives and shareholders have had a great ride for awhile, and in the end that's all it's really about anyway.  Harley owners who truly think this corporation really gives a chit about them need an intervention.

Jerry

[mark]

Seems to be a "one man's" poorly written opinion piece, devoid of facts.  He says a lot, but fails to support his points with any evidence.  While I agree with a lot of the piece, the writer clearly doesn't understand how a publicly held company works, marketing, or how demographics has impacted the MoCo.  Particularly when he writes that the MoCo should have concentrated on its core "biker" customers.  Had the MoCo done that, and not sought out new riders, all their customers would be dead by now or aged away from riding.  Companies don't survive by trying to remain stagnant.

[grc]

Seems to be a "one man's" poorly written opinion piece, devoid of facts.  He says a lot, but fails to support his points with any evidence.  While I agree with a lot of the piece, the writer clearly doesn't understand how a publicly held company works, marketing, or how demographics has impacted the MoCo.  Particularly when he writes that the MoCo should have concentrated on its core "biker" customers.  Had the MoCo done that, and not sought out new riders, all their customers would be dead by now or aged away from riding.  Companies don't survive by trying to remain stagnant.

I believe by core customers he was talking about the blue collar guys he mentioned earlier in his article, as opposed to the latecomers from the yuppie ranks who just jumped on board because it was the cool thing to do in the 90's.  Now Joe Sixpack has been priced out of the market for the new bikes, and Bob Yuppie has moved on to the latest trendy things.  At least that's how I read it, and I agree.

Jerry

[sadunbar]

I believe by core customers he was talking about the blue collar guys he mentioned earlier in his article, as opposed to the latecomers from the yuppie ranks who just jumped on board because it was the cool thing to do in the 90's.  Now Joe Sixpack has been priced out of the market for the new bikes, and Bob Yuppie has moved on to the latest trendy things.  At least that's how I read it, and I agree.

Jerry

Hit the nail on the head, Jerry...  Prices increased by leaps and bounds because they could...  Not just bikes, but motorclothes and accessories too.  (How much profit do you think there is in a $50 t-shirt?)  But now, much of that market has sailed.   

[HUBBARD]

Ok, ok, I read the article.  Lol.  I thought this was just something akin to "Biker News", or some chit.  I agree with what's been said.  The economy ain't helping, either.  Later--HUBBARD

[phato1]

The article raises some excellent points about HD's customer base changing through the 2000's, and yes a lot of the riders new to the Harley "family" were the Malcom Forbes types who just wanted to be able to say they owned a Harley, AKA "yuppies" but  then again some of those have become faithful owners.

However the argument on the price increases is a little weak without some context... According to the Bureau of labor statistics CPI inflation calculator, $3131.00 in 1977 dollars - the cost of a new 1977 XLCH equals $12,245 in 2015 dollars - which is actually less than the $10,650.00 MSRP of a 2015 Sportster 1200. The writer fails to acknowledge that the cost of EVERYTHING has gone up. I never thought I'd see $50K being the cost of a decently equipped pickup truck. The other side of the inflation coin is I FEEL better looking at my W2 each spring at tax time - thinking I make a decent wage   

Are Harley's business practices really that different from any other manufacturer like Chevy, Ford or Toyota? Maximize corporate and shareholder profit by controlling both labor and material costs, this unfortunately usually means outsourcing, job losses and yes even threatening/intimidating the unions and municipalities into giving concessions - give us a wage concession(union) or a tax abatement(state/town) or we're moving our operation.

And yes the T-shirts are ridiculously priced, and have been for a while now, but I still have quite a few....

IMHO the quality of the product is suffering at the moment. Is that from efforts to integrate technologies beyond their core talents, rushing products to market in order to be "first", or from taking a few to many engineering shortcuts?, I don't know the answer to that one.

I am optimistic that the new competition from Polaris, Indian and the rest will, in the end , help HD to improve.

I guess it's a long winded way of saying I love my Harleys - warts and all.

[DOCGSS]

A sales decline of 3% is not a company falling apart. Apple has had sales declines. Toyota has had sales declines. If all of the other manufacturers could only garner 3% of Harley's market share that is not very impressive. Every one loves the bash the leader. Ducati has had amazing sales gain and is only a blip compared to Harley, and Harley is only a blip compared to the world leader Honda. Let's be realistic Indian and Victory, both of which I have owned, will not release sales numbers. Their customers are gripping about quality control. I own three bikes now. A 2012 Triumph Thunderbird, a 2014 Road King CVO, and a Vespa 300 GTS. I love riding all of them, but the way the HD makes me feel while I ride is unique---and Why I Ride!

[JCZ]

I believe by core customers he was talking about the blue collar guys he mentioned earlier in his article, as opposed to the latecomers from the yuppie ranks who just jumped on board because it was the cool thing to do in the 90's.  Now Joe Sixpack has been priced out of the market for the new bikes, and Bob Yuppie has moved on to the latest trendy things.  At least that's how I read it, and I agree.

Jerry

I agree with you on all points Jerry.  Sad but true.

[mark]

I also think HD may have "Cadillac-ed" itself.  Not enough younger riders to replace the aging HD population.  I'm not sure todays 20 and 30 yr olds "long" for a Harley, just the way this same age group doesn't want a Cadillac.  Seems Gen X and Y have other interests, and even if they did want a Harley, couldn't afford one.  Go to a Harley shop on Saturday and look at the customers - looks like a line at the Social Security office.  HD probably missed the boat in the late 80s and early 90s by not offering something that appealed to younger riders - an affordable sport bike that could hold its own performance and price-wise with the Japanese.  They tried with Buell, but missed the boat on several issues - cost, performance, cost of service, etc.  As someone pointed out in another thread months ago, HD may have pigeon-holed itself as an "old-man's" bike, just the way Cadillac is perceived today.  It'll be hard to un-do that. 

[smkymtnboy]

  makes me wonder!! what is the average age on this site? no no no i rather not know! 

[tdkkart]

 Seems like a lot of fear mongering to me.
I'm not concerned, and won't be, until I go out on a weekend and the VAST majority of of bikes I see aren't Harleys.
Sure, I'll see a few oddballs here and there, a few Victories thrown in for good measure, but is that wrong??
I see more Chevys than Fords, so what??

Expensive?? I guess it's a matter of perspective. If you got a good job and manage your money right you can have enything you want, it's your choice. Can the guy who holds no regular job other than working on cars in his backyard own a Harley?? No, probably not, but he probably couldn't 40 years ago either.

I guess I missed the point of the article??

[grc]

I'm going to bet the average age of the folks in the Touring bike crowd is well into the 50 plus range.  There are always exceptions, and there are some twenty five to thirty year olds I've seen riding something like a Street Glide, but the majority of the people I see in this area riding Harley baggers is well north of the 40 mark.

In the 90's and early 2000's I saw a ton of thirty and up guys and gals spending a lot of money on new Harley's as well as clothes and accessories.  Many of these people were blue collar workers who worked in manufacturing or in the construction trades, and business was booming.  Credit was easy and people I worked with were buying houses and boats and cars and Harley's as if there was no tomorrow and the piper would never demand payment.  Well, the entire house of cards collapsed as we all know, and a whole lot of those folks wound up losing their jobs, their homes, their boats and other toys, and their Harley's.  Eight years later and many of those same people are still struggling to maintain the necessities, and the toys are just a memory and perhaps a dream for the future.  Those who weren't directly affected by the implosion of the economy need to be thankful, but I see some who still have the attitude that they've got theirs and if someone else doesn't it must be that persons fault.  I feel sorry for people who have so little empathy for their fellow man, and such an inflated opinion of their own worth.  The implosion of the economy didn't just affect those of inferior intellect or those who made bad decisions, and the economy as a whole is still no where near what it was ten or more years ago.  Unfortunately for many it never will be.

Jerry

[iski]

Baby Boomers had stupid money & spent stupidly in some areas.  HD benefited greatly as did other industries.  Those days are not gone, but they are going.  HD needs new customers, from other brands or new to the lifestyle.  At this point do not see the MoCo in doom & gloom mode, but times are not as easy as they were in the 90s or the early 2000s. Younger riders buy other brands, not HD usually.  This is not new.  Some switch to HD,  Not sure if the numbers are still there for that. 

Several people I used to ride with have sold or are selling their bikes.  They have no desire to ride anymore. Some due to age, others are tired of the hobby.  For other friends is still a lifestyle, we travel together & take bike trips together. We are getting older, time will work it's usual deal on us too, eventually.  Frankly since no longer own HD stock am not worried about it.  HD should continue for years & it will continue to change.  Some will like that, others will hate it.  HD is about making money, no misconceptions here about that. Product quality has suffered.  If HD does not correct that, the sales numbers will drop more. There are other brands out there, each has it's own set of problems though.  Grass is not always greener in that other pasture, but sometimes it is.

[RoadDawg]

Harley-Davidson is the only bike I'd ever consider. Competition is getting tough with Victory and Indian, but Harley will hold its value better than the others. I also read the outlaw stuff. Looks like the Cop Clubs might have to look over their shoulders for a while. I've been wearing three patches for over a decade. Always gave respect to the outlaw clubs and they to me. Hope that doesn't change.