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[miker]

Makes sense, I am not sure the link will work.  It is in Yahoo Fianance news, as I watch  a cvo worth of profits evaporate today....


http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070907/harley_davidson_outlook.html

Miker

[Spoiled!]

I hope those people that have bikes on order actually get them.

[Fired00d]

This doesn't surprise me at all. I'm on several dealers mail/email lists and I've noticed that several of them were having '07 Clearance Sales/Incentives trying to get the bikes sold before the '08's came in. First time I've seen that happen.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[d o g o l s]

Makes sense, I am not sure the link will work.  It is in Yahoo Fianance news, as I watch  a cvo worth of profits evaporate today....


http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070907/harley_davidson_outlook.html

Miker

just because somebody was talking about HONDA want to buy Harley

[Steve_G]

Black Hills HD told me in July that they weren't going to receive 40 of the new bikes that they expected.  When I found out after the Sturgis rally that my new bike was delayed 6 weeks, they told me the MoCo was cutting them by 80 new bikes!  -One way to keep the prices up, cut supply.  Retail -PLUS

[Twolanerider]

So they are having to build less, having more trouble selling what they are building, having to send 40% overseas to sell even that many but yet, while they could still afford the alternative, don't think it's prudent to just get them right the first time and work harder to avoid building product with such regular systemic problems pissing off so many people who, then, won't buy their next generation of bike from Harley Davidson.  What's the old question?  Which comes first, the chicken or the sick company?

[RedFXR2]

So they are having to build less, having more trouble selling what they are building, having to send  pissing off so many people who, then, won't buy their next generation of bike from Harley Davidson.

I have to make two comments here.

First, hasn't it been part of the HD mystique for generations now, that folks keep buying them again and again, regardless of all their faults?  How many of us right here are repeat HD owners?  Hey, I, myself, came from the bad old days of British bikes.  But I gotta tell you, I have less and less motivation to spend my evenings and weekends fixing broken stuff these days.  Especially stuff that breaks before it's time and cost a bunch to begin with.

As long as HD has been making V-twin bikes, they should have it down perfectly by now. 

Second is more about that current generation of owner and the next one(s).  If the current generation of owner comes back, fine, but if they don't that's OK with the MoCo as well, because the MoCo is trying to figure out how to capture the next generation of owners.  Not any more baby boomers.  This is a problem, though because they need to figure out how to get Generation X and Y buyers to buy HD.  The same people who grew up not even considering American cars/bikes because Japanese ones were more reliable, cheaper to buy and trouble free.  They've got our money, but the next generation might not be so easily pleased.  They might actually expect Honda-like quality for their $20-$30K and that's a problem for HD.

It might be that HD is right on the seam between their past and their future.  The past being that HD people would always buy whatever the MoCo built, however they built it.  The future being much higher expectations from future buyers.

The HD of twenty years from now might look very different.  It might have to, to survive.

[SEULTRA]

Well said....

Just in from MSN: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20642590/

As long as HD has been making V-twin bikes, they should have it down perfectly by now. 

 They might actually expect Honda-like quality for their $20-$30K and that's a problem for HD.

The future being much higher expectations from future buyers.

The HD of twenty years from now might look very different.  It might have to, to survive.

[DavidB]

Just bought more stock.
A few more million and I could be the CEO.

[miker]

Not to wish anyone bad luck, but I wouldn't mind getting a good deal on a used ultra or glide in the next few months.  It doesn't have to be cvo either...

[CVOJOE]

Harley-Davidson is also facing slower sales because its 2008 product lineup is not as innovative as last year's, which was among the most extensive launch of new products in the company's history.

You mean fly-by-wire throttle and ABS are not exciting new innovative features? 

[Twolanerider]

You mean fly-by-wire throttle and ABS are not exciting new innovative features? 

Joe, given Harley's history with things "new" and innovative I'm not sure "exciting" is the emotion I'd feel when guinea pigging so many major new systems as all fall in place together on the 08s.  Giving credit even where it is surprisingly due, however, I've only heard of one throttle control proplem so far and no significant issues with the ABS, new ECM or its combined cruise control and other functions. 

The cynic in me wants to say "give them time."  But maybe this will be a first generation systems release from Harley that was actually ready for prime time?  No rush to judgement.  Harley's history shows they thoroughly deserve the time to see if there are problems.  But maybe they actually got close the first time this time.

[RedFXR2]

You mean fly-by-wire throttle and ABS are not exciting new innovative features? 

Just for persepective, BMW (motorcycles) introduced ABS as standard equipment in 1986. It's hard to regard Harley as "innovative" when they're so far behind the curve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_brakes


Yamaha put throttle by wire into production in 2006, so Harley's more current on that one, but they're hardly the industry leader.

http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewBikeCatalogue/2006/yamaha/yzf-r6/throttle.htm


Harley has never relied on innovative engineering to sell bikes.  They always knew that the HD crowd would buy HD and nothing else, regardless of current technology.  Nothing wrong with that, IMO, I just wish they'd execute the old technology better.  I mean, why in the heck are we still watching HD make $30K bikes with oil leaks and peeling chrome, for crying out loud?

I really wonder if coming generations of buyers, accustomed to high quality vehicles, will put up with it?

[skreminegul07]

Cutting production by that small number is not going to mean anyone will be with out a bike.  When was the last time you saw a dealer with 150 leftover bikes in September?  Shortages haven't occurred since the production was 200,000 per year.  Now they are approaching 340,000 units.
The dealers will use this to create a fear of shortages to raise the prices of new and used alike.  Do not fall for it. 

The HD exce. said that last year had more innovation, a bigger engine that over heats and leaks and a six speed that makes too much noise.  Yeah, I guess it is hard to top that one in 2008.  In reality, the word is out in every magazine regarding the heat and noise and potential buyers are keeping what they got.  HD themselves talks about the heat in their publications as well.
my .02.

 

[MJZ]

I've been under the impression MoCo made their big profits from licensing and t-shirts while dealers made theirs from service departments and accessories.
As was repeatedly mentioned a few weeks ago in Knoxville, what other manufacturer could get away with producing an inferior product and then putting out publications marketing some fixes they recommend for an addition cost?