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CVO Technical => General CVO discussion => Topic started by: WildmanUltra on September 09, 2019, 12:37:37 AM
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Not sure what section to put this into.
When I took my bike in for the 117" kit to be installed I had also asked them to look at why the bike wouldn't start when it was in gear and the clutch lever was pulled in.
So when I went to pick the bike up on Saturday they told me that they had found a issue with the neutral safety switch. I thought they were talking about the neutral switch on the transmission but instead it is something to do with the wiring inside the handlebars.
Just curious if this is a common problem and what it might be? On the way back to my sisters house from the dealership a few times the gear indicator was not showing what gear I was in and my cruise wouldn't engage. Twice once I was able to get the cruise to engage it disengaged for no reason. So I am guessing it has something to do with the clutch lever and a switch there.
This is on a 2015 Road Glide Ultra
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Yes, your switch assembly on the left side of handle bars is most likely bad, it’s a common problem, mine was bad and would work intermittently, every time I took it to the dealer to show them it would work so they would not replace it under warranty
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I had to replace mine on the '15 RGU, too. The finger lever/trigger that changes the trip/remaining miles to empty, etc stopped working. The entire assembly has to be replaced. If I remember correctly, it was somewhere around $250 installed as it was outside the warranty period...funny how that worked ::)
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Prior to the 2014 and up models the clutch switch was a separate and easily replaced mechanical switch (same as the front brake lever switch). Beginning in 2014 with the addition of the CAN bus electrical system, the clutch switch function is contained in the left handlebar switchpack assembly. This makes the part cost for the repair increase from approximately $25 to over $200. Sadly the new system had a lot of failures in the first couple years, as is pretty much normal for Harley whenever they incorporate new-to-them old technology. They've made at least two engineering changes to the part so far, I believe the latest part number is 71500084B.
If you have an ESP it should be covered.
Jerry
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Mine was replaced under warranty in 2015 on the limited.
No problem with it since then.
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Any chance the new wiring harness is any better than the stock one?
Yes I have an ESP so it's covered just hope they get the new harness before it's too nasty to take it back over to them.
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Any chance the new wiring harness is any better than the stock one?
Yes I have an ESP so it's covered just hope they get the new harness before it's too nasty to take it back over to them.
It's actually a plug and play item on the handlebar, wildman, not a replacement of the wiring harness.
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It's actually a plug and play item on the handlebar, wildman, not a replacement of the wiring harness.
Okay I was going off what the service department had said and the way they were talking it sounded like a wiring harness.
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Roger that... :2vrolijk_21:
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See attachment.
Jerry
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Good info and diagram
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See attachment.
Jerry
Yes that is the part that they ordered. So it shouldn't take more than an hour to replace?
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I would think it would take less than a half hour, including the time to roll it into the shop and then back out. It's a very simple part replacement.
Jerry
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If you have to buy one, get the lighted switch kit, it’s less then one switch alone, and you get both sides so when the right one goes out, I believe most CVO’s are lighted anyhow
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190909/d69760dc6b31a3f4be63bff7657f9629.jpg)
You can buy them from one of the online 20% discounters
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Something else to try if you're having trouble getting the bike to start unless it's in neutral; this worked for me after having the dealer replace two switch packs under warranty.
The ramp for the clutch switch on the clutch lever can have too much flashing left on it from the casting process. I removed mine and sanded it down flat, and I've had no trouble since.
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Something else to try if you're having trouble getting the bike to start unless it's in neutral; this worked for me after having the dealer replace two switch packs under warranty.
The ramp for the clutch switch on the clutch lever can have too much flashing left on it from the casting process. I removed mine and sanded it down flat, and I've had no trouble since.
He's had the levers replaced with ones from Softbrake so that isn't it unless it started acting up after that and He never caught it.
Sent from my boring Droid phone.
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He's had the levers replaced with ones from Softbrake so that isn't it unless it started acting up after that and He never caught it.
Sent from my boring Droid phone.
No it did it before I changed the levers. Just another issue the dealer didn't catch when it was traded in.
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Mine has been replaced twice on my 2018. First time with same original oem part. Then I learned H-D came out with not only a revised switch but a revised clutch lever. Dealer installed both and no problem since.
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You should be able to start it in gear, but as a rule of thumb, it is not good to start your bike in gear....or so I hear.
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You should be able to start it in gear, but as a rule of thumb, it is not good to start your bike in gear....or so I hear.
;) Back in the day, before safety regulations, you could crank over anything with the trans in gear and the clutch engaged. After the typical person did that once or twice they quickly learned to not do it again. In more recent times it became neccesssary to protect people from themselves, so now we have clutch safety switches that will not allow the starter to operate if the trans is in gear and the clutch is still engaged. Most companies have had no problem making that a very reliable safety feature, but Harley is not most companies. The way the system is configured makes it impossible to start the engine with the trans in gear and the clutch DISENGAGED when the switch fails. That in itself can cause a serious safety issue if you stall the engine in first gear leaving an uphill stop and try to restart with the clutch disengaged and nothing happens.
Jerry
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Granted I have bikes that will start in gear, but as a general rule it is better not to. Think about it this way, if you are pushing the bike around the shop it is much easier to push with the bike in neutral as opposed to in gear and the clutch pulled in. The starter is pushing against this same resistance when the bike is started with the bike in gear. Just a thought.
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Back in the day being able to start my 93 Fatboy in gear got me home after the clutch cable broke. It wasn't pretty or even fun especially since the wife was on the back but she was game for it and away we went.
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Not trying to hijack this thread, but...
I have an '09 SERG that has NOT started in gear now for several years. It starts in neutral without the clutch being disengaged (lever pulled).
But if I'm in a situation that requires starting in gear, as in stalled in traffic at a light etc, it takes time to fumble around to get it in neutral to restart the bike. I know, why stall it, but it does happen from time to time for the oddest reasons.
So in my case, an '09, that starts in neutral without the clutch lever pulled, I really don't know if my clutch switch is good or not. I usually pull in the clutch to start anyway, but that's really only to relieve the drag etc upon startup. This should have nothing to do with my neutral safety switch, correct?
In my case, an '09, is it simply swapping out a small switch in the left grip assembly?
Thanks and have a great weekend.
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On your '09 it is a simple mechanical switch. They didn't change that until 2014 with the new CAN bus system.
Jerry
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Jerry, thanks.
It's a bit weird though as the clutch does disengage the cruise when pulled while riding on the highway.
I'll still replace the switch and see what happens.
Thanks again for the picture in the parts book. Makes it simple to order that way.
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;) Back in the day, before safety regulations, you could crank over anything with the trans in gear and the clutch engaged. After the typical person did that once or twice they quickly learned to not do it again. In more recent times it became neccesssary to protect people from themselves, so now we have clutch safety switches that will not allow the starter to operate if the trans is in gear and the clutch is still engaged. Most companies have had no problem making that a very reliable safety feature, but Harley is not most companies. The way the system is configured makes it impossible to start the engine with the trans in gear and the clutch DISENGAGED when the switch fails. That in itself can cause a serious safety issue if you stall the engine in first gear leaving an uphill stop and try to restart with the clutch disengaged and nothing happens.
Jerry
I grew up without these nanny aids. But I know many people who were never taught to drive a standard tranny and then when you try they aren't use to having to push in that clutch.
Funny story: I'd bought a truck and my at the time wife had driven it to work because she was going to bring some hay home from the stable she worked at for our horses. I get a call from her telling me the truck won't start. She worked almost an hour away from where we lived and our son went to a preschool in between. So now we're late picking him up plus I have to go see what is wrong with the truck. So I go and pick up my son first and then get to the stables and hop in the truck. Push the clutch in and WHOOM it starts right up.
What makes it even more funny is she had almost ran over me once when I was working on a Scout I had when we were dating. I'd asked her to hop in and crank it over while I was looking at the engine. Lucky for me the hoods on the old Scouts flipped forward so I was standing off to one side so all she hit was my foot.
And yes I always try to start my bike in neutral but there are times it is nice to be able to restart it in gear like when you stall it at a light or something. Having to shift it into neutral first makes the people behind you just get more impatient.
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Not trying to hijack this thread, but...
I have an '09 SERG that has NOT started in gear now for several years. It starts in neutral without the clutch being disengaged (lever pulled).
But if I'm in a situation that requires starting in gear, as in stalled in traffic at a light etc, it takes time to fumble around to get it in neutral to restart the bike. I know, why stall it, but it does happen from time to time for the oddest reasons.
So in my case, an '09, that starts in neutral without the clutch lever pulled, I really don't know if my clutch switch is good or not. I usually pull in the clutch to start anyway, but that's really only to relieve the drag etc upon startup. This should have nothing to do with my neutral safety switch, correct?
In my case, an '09, is it simply swapping out a small switch in the left grip assembly?
Thanks and have a great weekend.
I'm presuming the original creator of this thread got it fixed, but just in case, I bought a bike with this exact problem, and the fix was a simple switch replacement at the clutch lever as several members have mentioned. As Dan_Lockwood (quoted) and someone else mentioned, it's a critical safety feature to be able to quickly pull the clutch in and restart the bike at times, such as if the bike stalls as a light turns green and there's a line of traffic waiting behind you (or even worse, if in the middle of an intersection waiting to turn left when the bike stalls). I discovered this problem on an 09 FXDC I bought with only 3K miles on it (not my CVO, my other bike) only when it actually happened! I was in traffic, not long after I got it, not quite used to it yet, and didn't give it enough gas pulling away from the light. It stalled, I immediately pulled in the clutch and hit the start button, but of course it did nothing, and I had cage drivers honking at me by the time I was able get it shifted into neutral and restarted. I took it to the dealer, who diagnosed and fixed the bad switch on the first try (they'd obviously seen this issue before). Now it starts in neutral, or in gear as long as the clutch lever is pulled in. As it (and all bikes) should.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190909/d69760dc6b31a3f4be63bff7657f9629.jpg)
You can buy them from one of the online 20% discounters
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Damn you, now I want this!!! Lol