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[grc]

I had hill-holder technology in the third hand 1966 VW bug I drove in college.  Shift down to first while rolling up to the stop, apply the clutch and the foot brake, and pull the handbrake.  When it was time to drive off, a simple coordinated move of the right foot from the brake pedal to the throttle and then gradual release of the clutch and handbrake was nearly seamless, and didn't cost a dime extra. 

Jerry

[Billy]

Shoot, I got "hill control" now when stopping on a step incline.  Just put my left foot on the ground and my right foot on the rear brake.  Works every time.

  I agree never had a need for anything other than my right foot on the brake at all times when stopped. Just something all should know and practice. Easy fix. Billy

[Ironhorse]

About the only proper application I can think of is when dealing with someone like my cousin Alan who lost his right leg in a motorcycle accident.

[FLSTFI Dave]

Ah yes, another piece of technology so people don't really have to learn how to ride.

Yea, it came on my manual 14 Stingray, first thing I did was a delete for it.  It also came on my 18 Grand Sport, but its more refined and I do not notice it, drive like I always did before.  The 14 it was highly intrusive

[scottt]

There are many upgrades that add complexity to modern motorcycles, most are technically not necessary. Start with electric start, ABS brakes, tire pressure monitoring, cruise control, stereos, on and on. We tend to bitch about new features we don't have to make ourselves feel better.

Been riding my whole life and did just fine without "hill hold". That said, it's a nice feature. On newer BMW bikes it's an option. If ordered it works by pulling in the front brake lever firmly to set. The second you release the clutch and start moving forward it releases. You can also release by giving the front brake lever an extra pull. You can use it or not. Simple and effective.

Those that prefer a bike with fewer features can buy a older used bike. If Harley is to survive in todays competitive market it must offer bikes with popular features. Harley cannot survive with it's traditional customer base alone, they are aging out of there prime buying years to put it nicely.

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[Glenncarp]

Reminds me of a group ride I went on years ago. They purposely avoided hills because some folks didn’t like them. I just shook my head.

And that would have been the last group ride I joined them on, nice guys/girls or not! lol

[chaos901]

Remember when motorcycles were "simple" machines...…...like back in 2000.

[grc]

There are many upgrades that add complexity to modern motorcycles, most are technically not necessary. Start with electric start, ABS brakes, tire pressure monitoring, cruise control, stereos, on and on. We tend to bitch about new features we don't have to make ourselves feel better.

Been riding my whole life and did just fine without "hill hold". That said, it's a nice feature. On newer BMW bikes it's an option. If ordered it works by pulling in the front brake lever firmly to set. The second you release the clutch and start moving forward it releases. You can also release by giving the front brake lever an extra pull. You can use it or not. Simple and effective.

Those that prefer a bike with fewer features can buy a older used bike. If Harley is to survive in todays competitive market it must offer bikes with popular features. Harley cannot survive with it's traditional customer base alone, they are aging out of there prime buying years to put it nicely.

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I can't argue with what you've said Scott, there are many things that have improved the lives of most people over the past 50 years, including many in the vehicular arena.  But there is also a lot to be said for the simpler products and simpler times of what some of us call "the good ol' days".  I look back (way back) at my life and it sure seems I enjoyed motorcycles a lot more in the 60's though 80's, when they were simple machines without all the frills.  I also enjoyed driving and tinkering with the simpler cars of those times more than the current stuff, even after considering the vastly improved reliability of modern day vehicles.  Modern stuff is usually better, but for some reason the old stuff was more fun.  I guess I'm just jaded.

Jerry

[Glenncarp]

I can't argue with what you've said Scott, there are many things that have improved the lives of most people over the past 50 years, including many in the vehicular arena.  But there is also a lot to be said for the simpler products and simpler times of what some of us call "the good ol' days".  I look back (way back) at my life and it sure seems I enjoyed motorcycles a lot more in the 60's though 80's, when they were simple machines without all the frills.  I also enjoyed driving and tinkering with the simpler cars of those times more than the current stuff, even after considering the vastly improved reliability of modern day vehicles.  Modern stuff is usually better, but for some reason the old stuff was more fun.  I guess I'm just jaded.

Jerry

I actually sold the '16 CVO and went with the RG special to get rid of some of the bells and whistles. I refuse to get a headset and I don't care that the GPS sucks. I just taker her out and ride and if I get lost, who cares, I live in the NC mountains! I'll find the Blue Ridge Parkway or a windy road that leads home at some point. Sometimes its nice to just ride. 

[scottt]

I can't argue with what you've said Scott, there are many things that have improved the lives of most people over the past 50 years, including many in the vehicular arena.  But there is also a lot to be said for the simpler products and simpler times of what some of us call "the good ol' days".  I look back (way back) at my life and it sure seems I enjoyed motorcycles a lot more in the 60's though 80's, when they were simple machines without all the frills.  I also enjoyed driving and tinkering with the simpler cars of those times more than the current stuff, even after considering the vastly improved reliability of modern day vehicles.  Modern stuff is usually better, but for some reason the old stuff was more fun.  I guess I'm just jaded.

Jerry

Jerry; i totally get where your coming from. There is something to be said for buying an older Harley, one with a carb, an older ElectraGlide Classic as one example. Very simple bike.

There is also something to be said for the riding experience delivered from a bike like the BMW K1600B. Never running out of throttle, passing at high speed with ease, a smooth ride, being able to hit corners with full confidence and, covering big miles without pain in my older body.

I've owned and riden both, each delivers a unique experience.

Harley needs to sell thousands and thousands of bikes. When you spend $25,000 to nearly $50,000, buyers are going to expect a bike with modern day features. If they wanted a great simple bike they could buy a older used bike for $8,000.

I see no reason to put Harley down for offering technology. They should follow BMW and offer build options, similar to the way cars are ordered.

In my long term Harley riding opinion, the motor company is suffering from a lack of advancement, not too much.


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[SDCVO]

The BMW GA I bought 10 months ago came with it and honestly I never even paid attention to it though I would see the green "H" come on when I stopped on a hill for quite a few months and then started actually letting go of the brake at a stoplight and found it to be awesome! Dont know how the Harley will work but if its as seemless as the BMW I think those that end up getting the 20 bikes with it will fall in love with it.
I will admit when I ride my BMW one day and my Harley the next I have let go of the brake on a hill at a stoplight not thinking and have had a quick "pucker moment"..

[Ironhorse]

Some tech items are good, like Delphi FI. I could tell the difference between my ‘95 Ultra and my ‘06 Ultra going over the Rockies. I like ABS, but it’s not a substitute for good braking skills. And therein lies the crux of the conversation. There is a difference between items that make riding nicer, like FI and cruise, and an item that masks poor riding skills, or impedes the development of good riding skills. It won’t be long till manufacturers come up with 360 degree cameras “for safety”, without realizing that with cameras riders will get lazy and neglect to turn their heads. Hill holder is one of those kinds of items.

[scottt]

Some tech items are good, like Delphi FI. I could tell the difference between my ‘95 Ultra and my ‘06 Ultra going over the Rockies. I like ABS, but it’s not a substitute for good braking skills. And therein lies the crux of the conversation. There is a difference between items that make riding nicer, like FI and cruise, and an item that masks poor riding skills, or impedes the development of good riding skills. It won’t be long till manufacturers come up with 360 degree cameras “for safety”, without realizing that with cameras riders will get lazy and neglect to turn their heads. Hill holder is one of those kinds of items.

The good news, you don't have to buy it! If it's on the bike you don't have to use it. Just accept that your in the minority  and that's not a put down in any way. It's live and let live. That's my motto. I don't control anything beyond myself.

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[iski]

Some of the dirt bikes I rode early on did not have brakes - actually they had brakes but they didn't work at all or barely worked.  Those bikes weighed a lot less (I did too) & riding was all gear selection & throttle. Long time ago, and I manged to ride ok on those bikes. Now with these 1,000 pounder bikes some of these bells and whistles - like VHC - will be welcomed.  Not as much by those who learned to ride without it as much as those from this point forward.  Reminds me of a conversation I was listening to from almost 60 years ago about automatic automobile wipers vs manual ones (no motor).  A couple of old farts were arguing  discussing the merits of each.  As a young whipersnapper at the time I found it funny. Who in hell wouldn't want automatic windshield wipers?  Argument went - But when the wiper motor breaks you can't over ride it.

The times they are a-changing.  HD is creeping slowly along as a late adapter to new tech, they sure aren't cutting edge.  There is still an off switch for a lot of this stuff, not so for others. Anyway, when it rains these days I still use a manual wiper for my face shield...

[scottt]

Some of the dirt bikes I rode early on did not have brakes - actually they had brakes but they didn't work at all or barely worked.  Those bikes weighed a lot less (I did too) & riding was all gear selection & throttle. Long time ago, and I manged to ride ok on those bikes. Now with these 1,000 pounder bikes some of these bells and whistles - like VHC - will be welcomed.  Not as much by those who learned to ride without it as much as those from this point forward.  Reminds me of a conversation I was listening to from almost 60 years ago about automatic automobile wipers vs manual ones (no motor).  A couple of old farts were arguing  discussing the merits of each.  As a young whipersnapper at the time I found it funny. Who in hell wouldn't want automatic windshield wipers?  Argument went - But when the wiper motor breaks you can't over ride it.

The times they are a-changing.  HD is creeping slowly along as a late adapter to new tech, they sure aren't cutting edge.  There is still an off switch for a lot of this stuff, not so for others. Anyway, when it rains these days I still use a manual wiper for my face shield...

Well said sir!

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