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[ed53511]

I am getting an upgrade done to my 2015 SG CVO 110 to a 113.

I've been given 2 options for upgrades. One would replace the heads with S&S heads and eliminate the water cooling system.

What are the advantages or disadvantages to either option?

Option One                                                       Option Two
Rework Stock Heads, New S&S Springs Porting      S&S superstock heads
Bore Existing Cylinders                                      Bore Existing Cylinders
113 UEM Piston Kit                                              113 UEM Piston Kit
580 Lucifer Cam                                                      580 Lucifer Cam
S&S lifters                                                              S&S Lifters
Gaskets, Seals, MLS Head Gaskets                      Gaskets, Seals, MLS Head Gaskets
V&H Power Dual Headpipe                                      V&H Power Dual Headpipe
Power Vision Tune License                                      Power Vision Tune License
Flat Rate Tune                                                      Flat Rate Tune
Optional 58 SE Intake Manifold                              Optional 58 S&S throttle hog intake
Clutch Upgrade                                                      Clutch Upgrade
Build Labor                                                      Build Labor

[fastfreddy]

 me … I would keep the wet heads,

[ed53511]

Why?

[fastfreddy]

 heat and high performance don't go together. plus if you get the right guy to do your heads he can Taylor the head work to the rest of the parts you have chosen , the pros will chime in with the details soon

[grofcvo]

just wondering does it justify what will you gain couple hp/tq vs. $$$ you will spent, if money is not problem than go big 117'' or 124'' ... just saying.

[ed53511]

I am probably one of the most unqualified persons to have this conversation but I will give it my best shot.

I've been told air cooling heads draw more heat away from the engine and two of the three shops I spoke with to get quotes suggested going to the SS heads.

The other feedback recently received suggest that outside the extra cost, 117-124 upgrades would require crank work to ensure longevity and durability. It was further explained to me the 124 upgrades might as well get a crate motor due to costs.

I spoke to many people that I think know a bit about these upgrades and nearly all suggested the best bang for the buck would be the 113 upgrades. After listening to several people I reached out to a few shops (all 3 highly recommended from websites and groups) and now I have it narrowed down to either of these two options. I find it appealing to get rid of the radiators but I don't know in the long run what effects that might have.

That all being said, I don't know enough about the topic so I am trusting the shops and then now online support to get insight and hopefully make the right choice.

And then I Just received a third option.

[1roadking]

I would stay wet head. Take the extra coin and put in a 117 bolt on kit from Suburban speed. Going to an air cooled head will hurt your performance when it’s hot outside a lot.

[FLSTFI Dave]

If it was my bike, I would stay wet head.  The CVO head can done by a good shop to flow enough for 145/145 hp and torque, which is way more than you need.

The wet head runs cooler.  This is important if you ride in high heat, or long trips.  I much prefer the wet head from personal experience.  I have had several non wet head CVO bikes, I have also had two wet head CVO bikes. 

[CVO 2015]

I would stay wet head and send the heads out to someone reputable and match it to the cam and pistons..Tman 585, headwork, good pipe, TTS or powervision and a good tune and you are looking at 125+- 3 to 4/130..

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[ed53511]

FLSTFI Dave, what configuration reaches 145/145?

[hd-dude]

Stay with the wet head, have the heads worked, the suburban speed 117 pistons and HD barrels, min of a 58mm throttle body, cams, good pipe and tune you will be in the 130 hp and tq range.
Talk with the builder about riding style to choose cams and have heads worked accordingly.

[Para Bellum]

There might be some other problems in going to dry heads:  Since your engine was born with wet heads, the ECM (Engine Control Module) is set up to monitor coolant temperature and to control the cooling fans--so it will throw error codes when it doesn't find the feedback it expects from them.  Not sure if the PV can delete all the "expectations" the ECM has.

There also might be other sensors that are lost with the wet heads, which could lead to more error codes.

It would be really expensive to go back to wet heads after switching to dry.  This is not a modification I would make.

[bigchuck]

I've been told air cooling heads draw more heat away from the engine and two of the three shops I spoke with to get quotes suggested going to the SS heads.

A wet head is cooled by water/coolant and air. Ask them how an engine cooled only by air cools better than an engine cooled by both water and air. I'm not the most educated person but what they are telling you makes no sense to me.

[Para Bellum]

I've been told air cooling heads draw more heat away from the engine and two of the three shops I spoke with to get quotes suggested going to the SS heads.

    I forgot to address this in my previous post.  Whoever told you that is either completely clueless, or wants to make more money off you by selling you more parts--or both.

[Hondo2doc]

Ok so I have a 2016 SESG. Dropped the Harley 117 kit in but......but John Sachs a member on here. Designed that entire build we used different pistons, cams etc. John did the head work and shaved top of cylinders. I had my local dealer assemble to retain my factory warranty. My sheet for that build is on here some where it’s 129, 128 torque/ hp or something near that. It does what I wanted to scare the chit out of me.

Now John also put a S&S T 124ci in my 2015 SESG eliminating all liquid cooling. Doesn’t throw any codes at all. It is a torque beast. I don’t remember what the final numbers were on it, I’ve got the sheet here somewhere. Now just to give me peace of mind I added the wards cooling fans (I had a set before he went out of business) that I can flip on if in stop and go traffic. And I live on a sun spot, south Florida. If I hadn’t had the wards fans I would have bought the love jugs mighty might.

I don’t see any pro or con to keeping or ditching the liquid cooling. There are several tuners that easily tune/map the bike eliminating the liquid cooling with no issues.

One side note the water pump on the liquid cooled is around 600 bucks and many seem to fail in the 40k plus milage area.

Good luck


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