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Author Topic: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required  (Read 6577 times)

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gmeikle

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2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« on: December 27, 2018, 03:07:53 AM »

Well folks the original fitment compensator on my 2008 CVO Springer is starting to fail with 38,000 Kilometres.

I have done LOTS of internet researching and have come up with the following part numbers

42200064A for the Screamin' Eagle compensator kit . Local Australian HD dealer reckons this part # is all I'll need ?

AND

40100061 for the ( I think ?) same compensator PLUS a stator as the bike is a 2008

Am I on the right track ? Is there a "better" more recent release as I do believe the part has been modified/updated several times now.

Hoping this is in the right spot , it is a CVO Springer after all !
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grc

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2018, 08:42:19 AM »


Assuming your bike still has the original compensator and rotor, the correct number is the 40100061 kit which contains the new rotor as well as the compensator parts.  You will also need to purchase the epoxy adhesive used to install the oil drip tray to the primary cover separately.

The number your dealer suggested is for bikes that already came with the SE style compensator and thus have the correct rotor and spring pack.

Jerry
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2018, 04:14:16 PM »

Found this video helpful



This is what Jerry says you need.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 04:17:20 PM by longlast »
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2018, 04:58:39 PM »

Thanks longlast , I had already come across that video in my searchings. Quite explanatory , even tho' the model years are occasionally a bit blurred or muddled.

Due to the "live feed' of the production no doubt.

The video was very helpful in any case and thanks for the parts document , also helpful.
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2018, 06:05:06 PM »

Thanks longlast , I had already come across that video in my searchings. Quite explanatory , even tho' the model years are occasionally a bit blurred or muddled.

Due to the "live feed' of the production no doubt.

The video was very helpful in any case and thanks for the parts document , also helpful.

Glad it helped some.

Just did my compensator on my 07.   I was in the same boat as you,....not being sure what is or isn't the right parts to go with.

This is info pasted on to me from guys on this website forum you'll find it'll do the trick for you..

When you get into it don't forget to run a flat end 9/16 NC12(a bottoming tap) tap down the shaft threads and blow out the old locking compound from the threads. You'll also need a # T70 torx for the new bolt and torque to175psi.
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2019, 12:58:15 AM »

Well fitted up the Compensator upgrade kit 40100061. Had to remove the inner primary (Schweinhund of a job which is why many folks grind the primary case below the stator !)

As the bike is a 2008 the original stator needed to be replaced with the one in the kit

All seemed to go smooth , used the more modern 2014 alloy primary cover with the built in "Oil splash tray"

Started it up , small run , not too smooth and CLUNK when shutting off. WTF ? $635 Aussie dollars worth of parts and it's worse ?

Also noisy as before while riding , whistley/whirring and the odd occasional clunk. that was yesterday.

Internet search last night until midnight , whipped it open again today , put an extra dish spring in ( as suggested in other forums etc etc )

Another 2 hour job after cleanup etc etc...STILL NOISY AND CLUNKLY on shutdown and whirring on the move.

Yes sounds just like a bad primary as in all the youtube videos.

Next stripdown this coming Sunday maybe The indy shop ( my mat's workshop !) is going to try another younger part number kit that only has the hardware , no rotor required.

We'll see how that goes. Struggling to imagine what may be the problem to be honest ?
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 02:56:57 PM »

Replace the needle thrust bearing with the thrust washer # 6557

The needle thrust bearing has been reported being noisy
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grc

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 05:02:42 PM »

Like Pete mentioned, ditch the needle bearing thrust washer and go back to the older plain thrust washer.  Another thing to check is the compensator bolt to crankshaft torque.  Many have had the bolt torque out prematurely due to excessive friction caused by old dried thread locker in the threads.  If you didn't completely clean out the old thread locker, that may also be part of the clunk problem.
 
After assuring the threads are clean, install the bolt as follows:

Tighten compensating sprocket screw to 135.6 N·m (100 ft-lbs).

NOTE
Make sure shims do not fall between shaft extension and alternator rotor when loosening screw.

   
Loosen screw one half turn (180 degrees).
   
Final tighten to 237.3 N·m (175 ft-lbs).
   

Jerry
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 09:53:07 PM by grc »
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 07:31:16 PM »

Thanks Jerry.

Now the "shims" , read that in the instructions. Does that mean the saucer shaped spring pack ?

I could not see in the instructions "shims" as such nor on the exploded diagram ?

Where do these shims sit exactly ?

Thanks in advance mate
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grc

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2019, 09:52:35 PM »


The shims referenced in the instructions were used between the rotor face and the shaft extension on some earlier applications.  Other parts were changed in 2014 to eliminate the need for those shims, and you shouldn't need to worry about them on a new kit.  See attached pdf for the service bulletin covering the change.

Jerry
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2019, 01:17:57 AM »

Thanks again kind sir !

Now I see why I could not "see" them...

Well that eliminates that as they say as a source of my more than mild distress..

Rode the bike today in 32C , snitchy and clunky , did not like going into 5th and 6th for easy cruise as it would before from 55MPH ( 90 K's/H)

Tomorrow another stripdown , filthy messy job haha , and it has to be 37C !!
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2019, 03:18:44 PM »

well, let us know when you find the problem..  for all the world it sounds like something is loose or the bolt is not tightening down properly. measure the depth of the hole and the stack ht of what it bolts and see if there is as issue where the bolt is torqueing down to the number - but not the tightness. there "could" be lock tight jammed in the bottom of the hole and the bolt is tightening to that instead of the head.


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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2019, 01:41:40 AM »

Well fellows just home from the Indy workshop. The "new" compensator kit that was the 40100061# with the rotor , the rotor was left in and all the spring pack/compensator sprocket assembly removed and examined.

Compared it on the bench to the compensator/spring pack that came from the 42200064A #, the "new" one in the box , and the sliding cam was 90 thou "taller" in this pack (Nearly 2.3mm !) , plus had a machined in "groove" whether to aid oiling or just to show an updated part I am not sure. This box was made/packed 6 months after the 40100061 box ??

Reamed out the threads with a bottoming tap 9/16 NC12 and blasted out with Carby/throttle body cleaner ( all we had to hand !) and compressed air.

VERY careful reassembly using only 5 Spring plates ( was 6 in yesterday !) Torque-o-rama  to 175 Ft/Lbs .

Roadtest clunk GONE , still a bit of mild "Whistling"/chattering ( maybe I am now overthinking that !) but the bike will now go into 6th at 85Km/H no worries. No clunk on throttle roll-off.

37C ride home . sweltering , will try again once the seabreeze comes in and will have a 110 Km/H freeway run in 5th and 6th.

Hopefully the whistling will "bed in" and I will do another primary oil drop in a couple of hundred K's to check for swarf on the drain plug magnet and "metal gloss" in the oil...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 01:58:10 AM by gmeikle »
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grc

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2019, 10:33:48 AM »


Sounds like an old style slider cam found it's way into the kit you purchased.  Wonderful inventory control again, either at Harley or the vendor.  The old style hasn't been used from 2014 on, as noted in the service bulletin.  Hopefully you are now good to go.

Jerry
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2019, 02:47:17 PM »

Sounds like you got it sorted out as far as the shifting and clunky noise.

You didn't mention the needle thrust bearing.  If you left it in that may be the whistling you're hearing.

That's how it's been described as being noisy  :nixweiss:
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2019, 07:54:30 PM »

Yes the needle thrust bearing behind the "sprocket retainer nut" , the one that came in both kits ?

Put the "new" one back in with the "new" 42200064A kit , basically because it was there AND no plain thrust washer to hand. ( me and the Indy guy talked about it !)

No dealer open on a Sunday to try and get thrust washer # 6557 tho' I had been in the HD dealership on Saturday and did not realise or I forgot ( DUH!)

I did ask the parts guy , with whom I have a good relationship , if SE compensator kits were noted for being noisy and he said not as far as he was aware !

Now this  # 6557 , does that replace ALL 3 of the thrust bearing ( 2 PLAIN ONE ROLLER BEARING) in there right now. Is the # 6557 one thicker plain washer ?

And maybe is there a "service bulletin" on that or is it an aftermarket fix ? Thanks in advance from downunder folks.

Understandably I don't really want to tear it down AGAIN if I can avoid it, tho' I'm a bit of an "expert" now haha...
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Johnnie Nap

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2019, 10:10:38 PM »

Question to those who have used the nylon washer. Did you use the two washers that go on either side of the thrust bearing or is it better to leave them out when using the nylon thrust washer?
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2019, 10:51:38 PM »

There was no "nylon" washer in the 42200064A kit that I just used.

Having read around the 'net I am assuming the "Nylon" washer has been superseded.

Again from my searchings it would appear there has/have been 5 "revisions" of these SE Compensator kits
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2019, 06:36:40 AM »

Yes the needle thrust bearing behind the "sprocket retainer nut" , the one that came in both kits ?

Put the "new" one back in with the "new" 42200064A kit , basically because it was there AND no plain thrust washer to hand. ( me and the Indy guy talked about it !)

No dealer open on a Sunday to try and get thrust washer # 6557 tho' I had been in the HD dealership on Saturday and did not realise or I forgot ( DUH!)

I did ask the parts guy , with whom I have a good relationship , if SE compensator kits were noted for being noisy and he said not as far as he was aware !

Now this  # 6557 , does that replace ALL 3 of the thrust bearing ( 2 PLAIN ONE ROLLER BEARING) in there right now. Is the # 6557 one thicker plain washer ?

And maybe is there a "service bulletin" on that or is it an aftermarket fix ? Thanks in advance from downunder folks.

Understandably I don't really want to tear it down AGAIN if I can avoid it, tho' I'm a bit of an "expert" now haha...


The nylon thrust washer does replace all 3 parts of the needle thrust bearing.
It's the same width as needle thrust bearing with washers combined.

The #6557 is an option other then an aftermarket

If the whistling doesn't bother you let it be.  If you do change it you don't need to replace the bolt, just be sure to clean  off the bolt and shaft threads thurley and apply red stud lock/loctite
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2019, 08:10:34 PM »

Well , 220 K's on , some in reasonably hot weather , I changed to primary oil ( again !) , and the extra powerful magnet sump plug ( S&S I believe) had just a few wee mini shards of metal , "normal" would be the diagnosis. Oil fairly clear of metallic sheen thankfully. I bought a bunch of those sump plugs from Rollies in QLD a few years back.

Changed from HD Formula+ to "Genuine Suzuki" fully synthetic Ecstar 10W40 as I had some left from servicing the last Japper ( GSX 1300 ) and wanted to try fully synthetic to see if any difference over the Formula+. Opinions vary on "what oil yada yada", but CVO's came from new with HD SYN 3 and I don't keep that on the shelf.

There is still I am assuming Spring pack noise , some fixes appear to be replacing the thin roller bearing with a new thicker Thrust washer from HD part # 6557.

I have that ordered from the local HD dealer , $14 it will stay on the shelf for now and I will see how I go.OR fit another small Belleville spring in the spring pack OR both !

Another stripdown to do all that of course , and I am trying to avoid that. I have reused the same primary gasket each build , seems to be holding up thankfully

A cooler day today , to be "only" 27C (41 a few days back!), perfect day for Harley riding actually ( apologies to those in the Northern hemisphere !).So it will get another wee test run
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2019, 10:05:48 AM »

Replace the needle thrust bearing with the thrust washer # 6557

The needle thrust bearing has been reported being noisy

Slip an extra "small" spring in the spring pack and install a Compensaver, it has a fibre washer with it. As others have stated the needle bearing is noisy !  That should quiet it right down and get some oil to the compensator. I use redline MTL for primary because it has a EP additive in it. 
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 10:10:19 AM by Texas 103 »
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Johnnie Nap

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2019, 04:37:17 PM »

According to the GMR website sales of the compensaver have been suspended. Does anyone know if they are available elsewhere????
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2019, 04:50:07 PM »

  Glad it's working out for you.  You've had your share of stripping it down to get where your with it now. No sign of anything major going on from what you said  was on the drain plug that always a plus.

The needle thrust bearing may quiet down it time, can't really say..

I'm running with ATF Fully synthetic with a Lube Gard Platinum Additive an OEM ATF Alternative it's a High Performance Fluid Protectant . I've only been running  with ATF for a short  time now about 2.5k, so far I find it working well.
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2019, 07:58:35 AM »

Trying to secure one of these from GMR Performance. These used to be available with the "Compensaver" aftermarket oiler system ( NLA sadly as a complete unit !)

This is to replace the 3 piece roller bearing that comes with the latest 2014 and up SE Compensator kits. This has been suggested as a source of my "whirring noise"

This quest of mine has turned up a trove of info , so sorry this link is being typed manually

Look at the drop down menu button titled "Study results thru August 2015"

www.compensaver.com
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 07:30:39 PM by gmeikle »
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2019, 11:22:08 AM »

As you know that's the thrust washer that replaces the needle thrust bearing (IN PHOTO)

The second pic replaces the oil compensaver that's discontinued 
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 12:11:05 PM by longlast »
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2019, 11:28:51 AM »

   I assume you've installed this (the one I believe should be in yours is part #62700063) in the pic is the #62700064

The 63 is smaller
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 11:31:08 AM by longlast »
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2019, 01:18:43 PM »

You should have got one of each  compensaver oil Deflector in your kit the # 62700063 and a # 62700064
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2019, 05:11:15 PM »

I did get those 2 plastic parts in the kit , but instead I fitted a "new bike take-off" outer primary cover from a 2014 Dyna ( that already had forward controls )

This is an "alloy" finish cover from a Dyna Switchback that I fitted a chrome engine set to for a mate back then. Already had the "cast-in" oil delivery tray/scoop.

2014 Dyna alloy Internal part # 60784-06A. The 2008 chrome original was 60784-06

I can always "fix" the original chrome OEM item later on a whim if I choose. The alloy actually looks quite OK and already I am used to it.

Waiting for GMR to confirm if they still have a supply of those thrust washers , I am hoping so ! The noise is driving me crazy.

On the freeway the primary appears noisier to me as the rider than the V&H exhaust !

Going to ride it 20 K's over to the Indy shop today to give him a ride and a listen to it, to "only" be 31C today (Tuesday 15th), 40C by this coming Sunday !
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2019, 07:36:37 PM »

Good going then so you should be running smooth on the comp getting it's  required oil.
The thrust washer shouldn't be that hard to obtain
And that weather report that's a meltdown, ice cones wouldn't stand a chance.  :huepfenlol2:
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2019, 08:10:16 PM »

Ok so just so l understand things the Harley 6557 thrust washer and the GMR thrust washer are the same thickness? And the Harley plastic oil tray provides sufficiently oiling?
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2019, 03:36:54 AM »

Dropped past my HD dealer today , and the Harley # 6557 thrust washer is on "back order" so may be a wee while methinks !

The Compensaver thrust washer looks well engineered to allow oil ingress against the effects of centrifugal force.

No reply yet from GMR performance , but their website does say "sales are suspended" I was just hopeful to pick up a cheeky spare/leftover maybe..

I may be riding with the "whirring" a wee tad longer than planned...I notice same roadspeed changing up or down a gear the noise "goes".

what that tells me the whirring/chattering is for sure RPM related

I am starting to think "Inner primary bearing" OR Loose front sprocket ( apparently that can happen to twincams but I have never seen it personally before now !

Short of another inner/outer primary off scenario , what is the best way to check for a "loose" sprocket ?

I have put in in first gear while not running and rocked it back and forth and there is "play" Re the belt travel.

That was a suggestion at the Indy shop this AM as a "maybe"..
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2019, 01:47:36 PM »

Dropped past my HD dealer today , and the Harley # 6557 thrust washer is on "back order" so may be a wee while methinks !

The Compensaver thrust washer looks well engineered to allow oil ingress against the effects of centrifugal force.

No reply yet from GMR performance , but their website does say "sales are suspended" I was just hopeful to pick up a cheeky spare/leftover maybe..

I may be riding with the "whirring" a wee tad longer than planned...I notice same roadspeed changing up or down a gear the noise "goes".

what that tells me the whirring/chattering is for sure RPM related

I am starting to think "Inner primary bearing" OR Loose front sprocket ( apparently that can happen to twincams but I have never seen it personally before now !

Short of another inner/outer primary off scenario , what is the best way to check for a "loose" sprocket ?

I have put in in first gear while not running and rocked it back and forth and there is "play" Re the belt travel.

That was a suggestion at the Indy shop this AM as a "maybe"..

The inner case bearing is more of a rumbling noise. I had mine blow out, it's a noise that sounds like it's about to fall apart.
Pic's of the bearing.

How was/is your chain tension? To tight a chain will blow out the inner bearing the bearing race and snap off clutch hub splines .
If you're running with the Harley Davidson  automatic tensioner it can over tighten the chain and you don't know it until the damage is done. If you haven't already changed it it would be a good idea to do so.

Try not to over think the noise you're hearing you'll most likely find it's the thrust bearing.

For your peace of mind pull the clutch (seeing how you'll have primary open) and check the inner hub splines to the bearing.  Look for hair line cracks on the splines or broken ones.

If the hub looks good and your chain isn't over tightened then you could most likely rest easy on the bearing.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 01:56:48 PM by longlast »
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2019, 01:49:02 PM »



    The race

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2019, 01:51:17 PM »

And the clutch hub  all do to an over tighten chain
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2019, 01:53:41 AM »

Well another run down the coast this morning on a "cooler" 29C day. Went to the Army museum in Fremantle with my Vietnam Veteran mate

Still "chattering" at certain roadspeeds and a definite dry "hrumph hrumph" sound when coasting to traffic lights etc with the clutch in

Some thing is shot/out of line OR out of true or all 3 I now suspect. The Indy shop has Screamin' Eagle manual adjuster kit on the shelf , may try that as well

( Another ) strip down and looksee on the near future cards. I'm a bit like that , my things have to be "right"..

Will keep the forum updated of course
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2019, 05:38:57 AM »

Another primary strip down today. Chain and clutch basket/starter ring gear touching the inner primary since the last build.

Chain near the lower front as in the photos attached. What is it with that I ask ?

Put in the updated Genuine chain tensioner to see if that makes any difference

Part # 39929-06B  Noticeably "thicker" in the base than the OEM original.

Could have put in the Screamin Eagle manual but decided not to. ( Hopefully correctly !)

Still spring pack and /or roller bearing noise from the compensator as suggested before now.

Can't locate a GMR performance composite washer sadly
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2019, 05:40:16 AM »

Photo
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2019, 02:54:17 PM »

Photo

Wow!! You need to sort that out,  are you using shims?  If so did one slip out of place during assembly.

It definitely a direct contact mark.
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2019, 03:28:09 PM »

+1 something is not right, beyond a thin shim.
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2019, 04:33:35 PM »


   Perhaps your chain was a bit on the loose side. What sort of tensioner were you running?  Just tossing out some thoughts
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2019, 11:27:35 PM »

On my 2010 SEUC5 I moved away from the OEM automatic chain tensioner because my chain was always so very tight. I was concerned it was stressing the mainshaft bearing and inner primary bearing and risking the race on the mainshaft to walk inward causing even more damage. I looked at various chain adjusters, Hayden, the manual Harley and the Baker Attitude Adjuster. I decided on the Baker and 20k miles later I'm glad I did. My only concern was having to remove the primary cover on a regular basis to check the chain slack. I found that the slack really doesn't change other than from wear from the shoe. I set mine to 5/8-11/16 inch cold. I never had that slack with the automatic tensioner.

You can get a good sense of the 5/8 movement. As a result, whenever I do primary fluid changes I shine a flashlight in the derby cover hole and use a screwdriver to lift the chain to see if it's still in the 5/8 inch range. Then once the riding season is over I pull the primary cover and look at the shoe for wear and take accurate measurements. In three years I haven't had to readjust the tensioner. But it's removed now and I'm replacing the shoe because there are some wear marks and I'm doing major upgrades to the clutch, transmission, and engine. Of course everyone has their opinions but I am very happy with the Baker product. You can get it on Amazon for under $200. I since upgraded to the Armored version. One thing you want to keep in mind though, unlike other chain tensioners, this needs to be loosely installed before you put the compensator on because you can't slide it under and behind the chain like other tensioners. It's no fun to take the compensator off when you just got done torquing it to 175 ft. lbs and then doing it all over again.
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2019, 02:12:22 AM »

Scratching my head now Indeed !

I am presuming the original 2008 OEM chain adjuster gave up the ghost and the chain was contacting the lower inner primary.

Once I had installed the new "updated" genuine OEM adjuster # 39929-06B and torqued (again) the compensator there is no way the chain was now going to kiss that inner primary.

No shims anywhere in the build. 2008 CVO 110 Springer does not require them according to the fitting instructions in the 40100061 compensator kit with rotor.

That was clunky at the time , rotor left in , new "updated" kit  42200064A , different clutch ramps ( and maybe more !) no more clunk , but "rattling" aplenty.

Then this latest stripdown and the chain kissing evidence.

Next step a new chain itself and/or a Baker compensator. MUCH more simple setup! Similar price in Australia at the end of the day.

Lots of good youtube videos on the Baker. WHAT THE F*** IS A COMPENSATOR ? haha..

Reason I did not go down the Baker route at the time was I read they need to be spaced/shimmed to get chain run correct and I did not want that hassle

This next stripdown will be the 5th in less than a month so maybe the baker should have been on there from the get go !

Did 150 K's today in 39C heat , riding OK but of course noisy chattery primary. Will do an early morning run tomorrow and drop the primary oil when I get home.

Check the S$S magnetic drainplug for swarf and the oil itself for Aluminium ( Aluminun to you guys haha ) shininess...

I am trying to stay upbeat , but have actually been dreaming about this !
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2019, 04:31:06 AM »


    Feel for yea man, keep us updated on your next teardown
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2019, 06:05:36 AM »

thanks longlast old mate !
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2019, 10:44:54 PM »

Quote attributed to GMR Performance

With almost a year of experience with the #42200064A the main source of complaints being voiced and published is the added noise of this assembly. The axial roller thrust bearing creates a metal on metal action which is greatly adding to the sound resonance of the assembly. Replacing it with a specifically designed composite thrust washer for this application relieves much of this noise. It also eliminates the growing concerns of the axial rollers and related parts.

Next step is use the PEEK washer to replace the roller thrust 3 part bearing that comes in the "upgraded/latest" SE compensator kits.

POLYETHER ETHER KETONE is the base material.

Use the PEEK washer that is OEM on the M8 Compensator , part # 40100064 ,  this has been suggested to me already from the forums.

Has radial grooves to allow oil ingress , probably a good idea.

(part # gleaned from the Ronnie's HD online microfiche, a treasure trove of info.)

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/ronnies/showmodel.asp?Type=13&make=hdmc&a=1237&b=17&c=0&d=2018 FXBRS ANX BREAKOUT 114 115TH ANNIV EDITION (YT) BELTS W/ CHAINS AND SPROCKETS

So I will be ordering part # 40100064 from local Perth HD dealer Frasers on Monday. That will require ANOTHER stripdown , crank thread reaming 175 ft/lbs chit of a job CHITsake...

Chit I'm a funging nexpert at this job now !

I will check on the progress of this updated tensioner while in there of course. At $127.25 Aussie perhaps a primary chain as well
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 11:31:41 PM by gmeikle »
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2019, 09:40:26 AM »

 That number 40100064 is the same  as 6557 , in the link you can enter the 40100064 it'll come up the same thrust washer

https://www.jerseyh-d.com/PartSearch?search=6557
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 09:44:40 AM by longlast »
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2019, 10:47:16 AM »

On my 2010 SEUC5 I moved away from the OEM automatic chain tensioner because my chain was always so very tight. I was concerned it was stressing the mainshaft bearing and inner primary bearing and risking the race on the mainshaft to walk inward causing even more damage. I looked at various chain adjusters, Hayden, the manual Harley and the Baker Attitude Adjuster. I decided on the Baker and 20k miles later I'm glad I did. My only concern was having to remove the primary cover on a regular basis to check the chain slack. I found that the slack really doesn't change other than from wear from the shoe. I set mine to 5/8-11/16 inch cold. I never had that slack with the automatic tensioner.

You can get a good sense of the 5/8 movement. As a result, whenever I do primary fluid changes I shine a flashlight in the derby cover hole and use a screwdriver to lift the chain to see if it's still in the 5/8 inch range. Then once the riding season is over I pull the primary cover and look at the shoe for wear and take accurate measurements. In three years I haven't had to readjust the tensioner. But it's removed now and I'm replacing the shoe because there are some wear marks and I'm doing major upgrades to the clutch, transmission, and engine. Of course everyone has their opinions but I am very happy with the Baker product. You can get it on Amazon for under $200. I since upgraded to the Armored version. One thing you want to keep in mind though, unlike other chain tensioners, this needs to be loosely installed before you put the compensator on because you can't slide it under and behind the chain like other tensioners. It's no fun to take the compensator off when you just got done torquing it to 175 ft. lbs and then doing it all over again.

That the way I do it as well. I changed over to the Henderson M6 it holds the chain at 5/8" tension
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2019, 05:32:36 PM »

Same /superceded part # the bastids..the plot thickens

6AM here in Perth WA right now and I will be onto the local HD dealer with "this new info" after I have walked the dog , cleaned the swimming pool yada yada...

All the usual Aussie BS...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 05:35:40 PM by gmeikle »
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2019, 08:40:19 PM »

Just off the blower to my man at Frasers HD in Perth Western Australia

He reckons both are live part numbers. Seemed hesitant to say/commit the 40100064 would replace the 6557

NONE in Australia , 2nd Feb stock order

Rode 50 K's after dark last night , no helmet , primary as noisy as a noisy thing , way way worse than the original OEM parts a month ago !

Bike has V&H Big Shot Staggered and you can hear it over them on the freeway !!

My mechanical abilities are OK if I say so myself but I am starting to doubt them !
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2019, 12:49:31 AM »


  Do you think its gotten worse (noisier)  in your opinion since you put the new tensioner in?

The reason I ask is that new tensioners will make a fare bit of noise they can take 2 to 3 thousand miles before they gradually get quieter.  (Break in mileage)

When you break it down,........you had noise "after" you put in the new compensator?  Or you had noise "before" that's why you changed the compensator?

If "after" then its fare to say it's the thrust bearing making noise

Has the noise increased "after" you installed the new tensioner?   If it has then it would be fare to say it's the breaking in noise of the tensioner you're hearing combined with the compensator thrust bearing noise.

One other thing , when you changed the compensator did you pull the inner primary case off and check/ change the transmission shaft inner primary case bearing?

If you "did not" check it,...then you should when you pull it down to change the thrust bearing with the thrust washer so that bearing can be eliminated as a possible noise contributor

Just some thoughts



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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2019, 03:14:38 AM »

Started with a slightly noisy whistling/rattling in the original 2008 OEM Compensator. Could have ( SHOULD HAVE !) lived with it.

Changed to full kit , (including rotor as it's a 2008) part # 40100061. Required inner primary removal

Rebuilt and Immediately loud and "clunky" on shutdown ! ( No "clunky" before !)

2 days and 50 K's later put in part # 42200064A , spring pack and ramps etc etc , which was measurably DIFFERENT stack height to the "same parts" in the previous kit

Rebuilt again , clunk immediately gone , but whistley/chattering/rattling. Put in extra Belleville spring. Still whistley etc.

3 days later stripdown again , rubbing marks on primary from clutch or ring gear , chafing on the bottom of inner primary case from the chain.

Inner primary off AGAIN , front sprocket and inner shaft case bearing checked , turned and "waggled" all seemed OK. Extra Belleville spring removed

At this point replaced the original 2008 auto tensioner with the latest genuine Part # 39929-06B auto chain tensioner . ( JUST IN CASE !)

Now a month or so and multiple builds/rebuilds as said last post still well noisy. Maybe indeed "wearing/breaking in" noise. Does seem "noisier" than the previous tensioner

Cannot source a PEEK thrust washer immediately , be early February. When I strip it again , I will try a new primary chain at the same time as I install the PEEK thrust washer

If that has the same outcome I WILL be going down the Baker route , shimming be damned !!

https://www.hdforums.com.au/Thread/673587/1

Attached link to the same saga on the Aussie forums ( hoping that is OK folks ?)

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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2019, 04:30:47 AM »

In the link that mark on the primary made by the ring gear is caused by the primary chain being too tight.

I also had the SE auto tensioner that had moved up to far that can happen on sudden deselection and reacceleration.

It transfers the required chain slack at the top (in my case 5/8") to the lower (bottom) of the chain then the auto tensioner kicks in taking up the slack.
Then every time you accelerate the chain puts so much pressure pulling on the clutch it twists if you like the clutch that the ringgear  contacts the casing.
IT WILL DAMAGE THE CLUTCH HUB AND INNER PRIMARY CASE BEARING I did post pics the damage it did to mine. 
The chain clearance has too be maintained.  That's why so many got rid of the SE auto tensioner .

Pic of my inner primary  same warning signs chain to tight.     The scrap at about 8 o'clock
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 04:32:59 AM by longlast »
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2019, 04:49:13 AM »

Chit same same !

The Indy shop had the "Screamin' Eagle" manual tensioner on the shelf and I was "gunna" use that..chose the updated auto tensioner.

If I rebuild on his hoist again I may well try that manual adjuster

Have a look at the "same" Aussie forums thread. Engineering shop in South Australia has a wee bit to say about those scuff marks !
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longlast

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2019, 05:23:01 AM »


  This is what I did too my SE tensioner to stop it from moving up I put a weld to it.

I did it after I had changed the clutch hub and inner primary case bearing because I did a check on it after about doing 200 miles and found the chain tight again the tensioner had gone to the max.
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2019, 05:26:22 AM »


   So I replaced the SE tensioner  with this.

    Haven't had any more issues
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2019, 06:26:29 AM »

So that Hayden is still an "auto" adjuster after a fashion.? I used to put Hayden tensioners into my Evos and early twincams always with no worries.

hardly ever had the 'shim" them afterwards
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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2019, 08:01:03 AM »


  That's right it's spring loaded that it maintains the preload on the chain and will allow the chain to flex then return it back to its correct tension.

No more worrying about the SE tensioner moving up the ratchet and locking the chain in a over tightened position.
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gmeikle

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Re: 2008 FXSTSSE2 new compensator required
« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2019, 01:30:22 AM »

Revamping this thread folks. Been 3 months and I am ready for another teardown. Thanks for all previous correspondences.

I have 2 different new thrust washers. Suspecting the needle roller bearing 3 part thrust washer may be the main source of my primary noise

A new "PEEK" thrust washer part number 40100064

AND a new PART NUMBER 6557 THRUSTWASHER

Longlast which one did you eventually use ?

I also have a new genuine HD primary chain which may as well go in at the same time. The latest/greatest genuine auto tensioner is already in there since last teardown.

I have done 1000 K's and was "hoping" the thing would settle down but alas not to be. 2000 RPM has a whirring/chattering just at cruising speed that does not fill me with confidence !!
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