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[Ironhorse]

Unfortunately, and more so today, the facts are buried in the love for conspiracy and internet fact experts that are just regurgitating another's' post without knowledge. Mob rule! Storm the castle!

Or storm the Capitol,....LOL!!!!

Thanks for the input Ric. It's always good to hear directly from someone in the know.

[ric.sut32@gmail.com]

My pleasure! Feel free to copy and paste my comments maybe you can help some friends to be safer. Happy New Year!

[WRE4U]

Great information!  FWIW I have had mostly cruiser style bikes (Softails, Sportys, Vulcans, and a Shadow) never a bagger...had a Harley trike for awhile...but that was a mistake!  I do mostly one up riding, mainly flat, some curves, rural, highways mostly in a year round environment (thankfully) in Southeastern NC.  I think the only tire manufacture, (at least 12-14 sets, always both front and rear at the same time and with a matched set)  I have not tried is Pirelli, always motorcycle tires, and never a car tire.  I'm not a hotrodder, no wheelies, or burnouts, downshift when braking, always check pressure (38-40lbs) in other words pretty conservative.  Eight thousand miles is the most I have ever obtained, and that was on a lighter weight Kawasaki 900 Vulcan.  All I can say is "I wish there was a 15K tire for me" 

[ric.sut32@gmail.com]

As a Michelin Tire Designer I prefer the Metzeler's only because I am a mountain twisty rider. The new Metzeler Cruisetec RADIAL is my choice for my 21 Road King because of the comfort and handling! For more Mileage the Metzeler M888 Marathon Ultra Tires is my choice. Michelin builds the Harley fitment for Harley and the primary design is mileage. I also prefer a tire that has a constant radius rom shoulder to shoulder. Many designs have dual radii that change between a 1 to 2 o'clock lean and that is unnerving to me in the mountains. I live in Northern S.C. and NC.  I was going to cross the country on highways I would run the Michelin Commander 3. Great highway tire. So are the Michelin Road Tire Series for lighter bikes. 
there are no straight roads and I love it! On all my modern BMW sport bikes I run the Michelin Power GP series. Super comfort and amazing handling!! I want the ride to be outstanding from, stop to start and I can feel the difference of the GP's in my driveway. I get 10 to 15 k because I always have a well balanced tire, correct air pressure and a great suspension with NO wheel hop. Olins! As I mentioned in a previous post, I run 4 psi lower the MFG. recommendations to increase my contact patch. It gives great control and comfort. Gas milage will be reduced but that is not a concern for me. I do not recommend ant air pressure variations from Mfg. recommendations. Lower or higher. You ALWAYS adjust air the you weight load. Too high and your contact patch is small and the decreases Braking and Steering capabilities.
                     Have fun! That is what it is about!
 
   

[TN]

I have a question about tire balance, specifically about using alternative methods such as dynabeads or other methods other than applied weights. I mount my own tires and have been known to index them a time or two for optimal results on a static balance stand, usually under .75 oz but have gotten better. I use the brand of tire that provides a yellow dot for lightest area of tire and go from there. 

I use dynabeads and apply them thru my valve stem as my very last step before mounting tire on bike, I ride a HD touring with 180/55-18 rear tire and 130/70-18 front. I install 3-oz in rear tire, 2-oz in front. Premium suspension front and rear setup properly and run 40-42 psi cold rear, 36-38 psi cold front.  I’ve been known to ride somewhat aggressive, western NC is one of my favorite riding areas.

TIA for discussion on this subject

[ric.sut32@gmail.com]

No one at Michelin every runs Dyna Beads or any in tire balancing products or recommends them. It is not necessary and can damage the Butyl Inner Liner. I don't want anything moving around in my tires. Dynamic Balancing is not even needed on motorcycles as there is so little rotating mass Radially and Axially compared to a car tire. If you are having trouble getting a good balance the first thing to do is check the Radial and Axial run-out of the wheel. Next you may have a bad tire. I have seen open and heavy tread joints in even some tier one tires that cause issues that cannot be fixed. If you have an O.E. tire with a Dot as you mentioned, I always put the dot at the valve stem for the start. For many O.E. manufactures we mark the tires to minimize or eliminate the need for balance weights and the tires are built to a specific balance O.E. spec. The wheels must also be within an O.E suppliers spec to make this work. 
Moving the tire to try to minimize the required balance weight is admirable as you are just doing this with a random approach, but again I have never seen the need on any motorcycle applications. Now for Automotive, Match Mounting is an absolute benefit! I always Road Force balance the tires on my cars and trucks. Moving the tire on the rim to minimize the weight required will also improve the various harmonic imbalances that occur at various speeds. Also Road Force Balancing machines place the weight in the best lateral location in addition to radial. The number one issue for balance issues on a new tire is poor bead seating. I always inflate the tire to the Max to get a good seat then drop it to the correct spec for running. For automotive, most of the Hunter Road Force mounting machines have a bead massage cycle to try to get the best seat. I have mounted tires twice in many instances when I "See" too much weight required. I have had my mounting shops tell me I have a bad tire and I say break it down and reseat it. It fixes it 99% of the time.  It is usually a seating issue most often on automotive and not motorcycle.  Hope that helps.. Ric  Be safe and have fun!       

[Ironhorse]

No one at Michelin every runs Dyna Beads or any in tire balancing products or recommends them. It is not necessary and can damage the Butyl Inner Liner. I don't want anything moving around in my tires.

Ric,

How about the Centramatic wheel balancers?  Those are mounted next to the wheel, they are not free rolling INSIDE the tire.

https://www.centramatic.com/wheel-balance.rhtml?type=Motorcycle

Mark

[ric.sut32@gmail.com]

Why waste your money. Do you have a balance issue?

[Twolanerider]

Ric,

How about the Centramatic wheel balancers?  Those are mounted next to the wheel, they are not free rolling INSIDE the tire.

https://www.centramatic.com/wheel-balance.rhtml?type=Motorcycle

Mark

Had not seen that before Mark.  That is an EXPENSIVE wheel weight...


I'm only about .0001875% as smart where tires are concerned as the gentleman that has been so informative in this thread.  I just know that on an intuitive level I was never comfortable with the beads rolling around inside there.  Even more in applications like lined spoked tubeless wheels.  I always just added the weight as needed (if needed) and then chose to never think about it anymore.

[TN]

No one at Michelin every runs Dyna Beads or any in tire balancing products or recommends them. It is not necessary and can damage the Butyl Inner Liner. I don't want anything moving around in my tires. Dynamic Balancing is not even needed on motorcycles as there is so little rotating mass Radially and Axially compared to a car tire. If you are having trouble getting a good balance the first thing to do is check the Radial and Axial run-out of the wheel. Next you may have a bad tire. I have seen open and heavy tread joints in even some tier one tires that cause issues that cannot be fixed. If you have an O.E. tire with a Dot as you mentioned, I always put the dot at the valve stem for the start. For many O.E. manufactures we mark the tires to minimize or eliminate the need for balance weights and the tires are built to a specific balance O.E. spec. The wheels must also be within an O.E suppliers spec to make this work. 
Moving the tire to try to minimize the required balance weight is admirable as you are just doing this with a random approach, but again I have never seen the need on any motorcycle applications. Now for Automotive, Match Mounting is an absolute benefit! I always Road Force balance the tires on my cars and trucks. Moving the tire on the rim to minimize the weight required will also improve the various harmonic imbalances that occur at various speeds. Also Road Force Balancing machines place the weight in the best lateral location in addition to radial. The number one issue for balance issues on a new tire is poor bead seating. I always inflate the tire to the Max to get a good seat then drop it to the correct spec for running. For automotive, most of the Hunter Road Force mounting machines have a bead massage cycle to try to get the best seat. I have mounted tires twice in many instances when I "See" too much weight required. I have had my mounting shops tell me I have a bad tire and I say break it down and reseat it. It fixes it 99% of the time.  It is usually a seating issue most often on automotive and not motorcycle.  Hope that helps.. Ric  Be safe and have fun!     

 I’ve asked the dynabead question to reps from dunlop, they advise against it but wouldn’t state reason, Avon rep said he was intrigued with them but wouldn’t comment any further so I just had to ask how Michelin felt about them. I appreciate your feedback.

My original post on this thread was to get your opinion on dynabeads and I didn’t articulate that too well, sorry if you’re trying to solve a problem I don’t have at this point. IMHO
I gave spotty details on my method just to try and show I was a DIY’er, I am willing to learn I’m just hardheaded sometimes.

 The dynabeads being abrasive to the inside of the tire is minute, yes there is some dust but very little when you break down the tire at the end of it’s life. I in fact reuse them. The only real problem I’ve seen with dynabeads is where they will clump if excessive moisture was in the air from the compressor when filled. I address that also.


Thanks and ride safe

[ric.sut32@gmail.com]

Any time! WE are Enthusiastic Drivers that Design at Michelin. We started with 2 wheel design in Clermont-Ferrand.

[Ironhorse]

Why waste your money. Do you have a balance issue?

Excellent question Ric, and spot on. 

So when dealing with some of the CVO and custom builder groups, it's more of an appearance issue than anything else.  After spending as much money as we do on our bikes, the appearance of a string of wheel weights on a chrome limited edition rim can be unsightly and detract from its overall appearance. This is where things like Dyna Beads and Centramatic Balancers come in.  They provide the needed balancing without the weights. The other thing some of us have experienced is damage to our paint and metal work when weights have come unstuck and flung up and hit the fenders while in motion. 

The last part is closer to your realm.  One of the prevailing "theories" is that as tires wear, they become "slightly unbalanced" due to the wear pattern.  A tire that was balanced when new with stick on weights, may experience an ever so slight change in balance.  With things like Dyna Beads and Centramatics, the balance continually "adjusts" to compensate for the change due to tire wear.  This in turn "lengthens" tire life.

Mark

[Ironhorse]

Had not seen that before Mark.  That is an EXPENSIVE wheel weight...

Yes it is.  Like MANY things we do for our bikes it's a "Buy once, Cry once" application.  Now the GoldWing crowd swears it lengthens the life of the tire adding thousands of miles more.  I can't speak to that as I installed mine with fresh tires last year. But I'll see how long I go before needing tires. And now that I have them it's one less thing to worry about.

Mark

[Twolanerider]

Yes it is.  Like MANY things we do for our bikes it's a "Buy once, Cry once" application.  Now the GoldWing crowd swears it lengthens the life of the tire adding thousands of miles more.  I can't speak to that as I installed mine with fresh tires last year. But I'll see how long I go before needing tires. And now that I have them it's one less thing to worry about.

Mark

Boys and their toys Mark.  Women and motorcycles and cars are expensive....   

[ric.sut32@gmail.com]

Mark,
    I understand the look factor and I like a "Clean" looking machine. I am a "Form Follows Function" designer and I like the challenge. So is it show or go? It's hard to have it all. I do not like
balance weights but that is sometime I accept as you don't see it when your moving and moving is my higher priority. There is no right or wrong.
    As for wear and balance, I have rarely seen any variations after the initial "Set" and even then mainly on cars and trucks. Our number one vibration complaint is from improper mounting and not having the correct bead seating. Most premium tires have high bead seat forces. This will contribute to not getting that seating on the first attempt.
    We inspect all the returns we receive so I get to "see it all". Impact is the number one damage issue after under inflation and misalignment. The pot hole and curb hits can tear or break a fabric or steel cord you cannot see. The tire may no longer be as round as a result. Now a new V-1 (Vertical once per rev) harmonic is induced and that contributes to imbalance and bounce. I cringe when this happens and do an immediate inspection, hoping the rim survived at least! We simulate this in testing and the forces from these impacts are very high. If you ever have a shake, you must address it. We ride in a hostile environment so be careful and be smart! I have always run performance tires and performance suspensions which is the ideal situation of course. My bikes are maintained by me. I was a racer and engine builder prior to moving into tire design. I have taken tires off all my brand new bikes at less than 500 miles because the model of tire was not suited to my style of driving. Life is too short not to have the best ride everytime you go out! FYI we still pay for our tires.   Ric