THUMPIN you have a 103???? I see you have an 06 so unless you did any motor work I will assume it is still a 103.
The early 103's had lifter problems. Not all but some. It also sounds like your bike is wet sumping. Bad oil pump? Maybe. Bad "O" ring from the pump to the case? Maybe. What kind of oil pressure are you pushing? Good oil pressure may mean bad "O" ring. Why???? I can't tell you for sure. How many miles are on the motor? Are you hard on the motor? Hole shots with the bike? If so you may have (most likely you do) excessive crank runout. If you are not hard on the motor you may still have a crank problem!
Hope this helps.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
What kind of oil pressure does the bike have?????13-15 idle. 38-42 cruise.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Disregard the last message.
The bike has good oil pressure for that pump. It might be the "O" ring that is pinched and now you are not pulling enough from the lower end.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
GOOD DEAL keep us posted!!!!!!:2vrolijk_21:
Be Safe
THE DAWG
That sucks!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Tell me about it. :( But it'll be OK. We ride 'em, we break 'em, we fix 'em, we ride 'em again. :2vrolijk_21:
I ain't diggin' this engine drama during this time of the year. Last year was by choice. Next year I'm gonna get me a good luck charm and pray alot when fall approaches. :)
Tell me about it. :( But it'll be OK. We ride 'em, we break 'em, we fix 'em, we ride 'em again. :2vrolijk_21:Sure sucks Henry. Hope you're back in the wind very soon.
I ain't diggin' this engine drama during this time of the year. Last year was by choice. Next year I'm gonna get me a good luck charm and pray alot when fall approaches. :)
Sorry to ask this Henry, but where's Dennis thruout this whole thing? We haven't heard a peep from him! He built it. I'd think he'd have something to say about it! :nixweiss:
Hoist! 8)
I've noticed before a tapping on cold start that goes away within a minute or so. Figured it was a lifter bleeding down and pumping up after start.....and that may be another challenge. Anyway, that went away.....for awhile. It's back.....with a vengeance, but goes away if I allow the bike to warm at idle before riding.
Haven't been able to ride much lately. Rode very little yesterday.......maybe ten miles, basically to Church and back with a long route home....if one considers ten miles long.
This evening I took my Sweetie out for ice cream at Sonic. Same old, same old. Start, taptaptaptaptap............until warm at idle, then no more tap, but it sure is sluggish. This was REALLY bothering me. Got home, checked the oil, one quart low. Been 1200 miles since my last service. I normally run about 1/2 quart low. Put the bike on the lift, checked primary fluid level. Good. Pull the sump plug..........
22 ounces of oil drained out in 15 minutes, and was still "stringing" when I put the plug back in.
Sumping? Yes? No? Some other challenge(s)?
Options? Courses of action?
Thanks!
Home grown 131 :o !
(http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=27625.0;attach=87110;image)
Close...... Formula and bore are correct. Stroke? My understanding is Axtell specs cylinders full length to include spigot skirt. 4.917" would be awful hard on some rings and wipers. No?
Did the math playing the numbers as bore and stroke. 4 1/4 x 4.917 would be 131.4. Even with some weird rods don't think you get that stroke in a TC though. Jim's does their 131 by going 4.625 x 4.5. So what are ya building big boy?
By the way, are you satisfied you know the original point of failure from the first build?
Or was it one of those "something just happened" things?
4.125"=4 1/8", not 4 1/4".
Ahhh, brain fart. Or didn't have my glasses on then. Who knows :huepfenlol2: ?
Too bad it crapped out. Even more so that it wasn't something simple. Before it started failing you'd seemed generally pleased with how it was running again.
Can't wait to see this build complete. The S&S crank assembly is your better bet. Don't know about lead time though. What size are you building?
With Twolane reading and posting without his glasses on has me DIZZY!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Can't wait to see this build complete. The S&S crank assembly is your better bet. Don't know about lead time though. What size are you building?
With Twolane reading and posting without his glasses on has me DIZZY!!!!!!
Be Safe
THE DAWG
Mike, you're gonna hate this. We're going with Woods 408 cams. I rode Rod's bike, and didn't find it noisy at all.........but the torque and power made the corners of my mouth meet behind my neck. :smile: And that 6th gear will be a welcome addition. :2vrolijk_21:
I am not against anything Bob Wood produces. His cams make some great power. Only problem I have ever ran into was the noise. I gave Axil a set for his 103 and he is making some really good power. He likes the power but again "THE NOISE".
Good luck with the build and keep us posted.
Be Safe
THE DAWG
I guess I must be tone deef in that frequency range...........either that, or I just like it so much that it ain't noise to me. I dunno. Heck, mine ain't even done yet, but from the few miles I logged on a 408 equipped bike, that thing was silky.
New S&S crank came in today. Going to check on Thump tomorrow. Will give me an opportunity to really ride the Purple Haze down there and back. Rod tells me the Baker OD6 and new oil spout have been installed. Can't wait to see it. Won't be long now.
Take the camera!
Battery's charging. :2vrolijk_21:
Your da man!
:2vrolijk_21:
Had an awesome ride on the Purple Haze to/from Hanceville today. Jacket and gloves on the way down. T-shirt on the way home. S&S crank is still in the box. Grabbed three pictures. Here's one on Thump...........still gutted.
You suck... :oops: ::) :P ;D :huepfenlol2:
DEWD! There's room for you and your bride here at my house if you want to come on down and "suck" with me. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
Seriously great riding weather today. Renea and I took the Haze out to supper at the Outhouse Steakback tonight. Sweatshirts was all we needed.
I know.......I suck. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
Whew....for a minute there I thought you were calling me d00d!And the problem w/that is?? :confused5: :P ;D
I'll get over it... I'm just suffering from the usual withdrawl symptoms brought on by a lack of warmth.... and tonight is the time change which adds to the dreary.... arrghh..!
And the problem w/that is?? :confused5: :P ;D
BTW - It was sixty some degrees here today. I've been fighting a cold all week so I didn't ride, but now wishing I did so I could rub it in. :huepfenlol2:
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Baker OD6 and the new oil spout and tube have been installed. Really like the new stuff. Everything is going back together with ARP polished SS 12pt hardware.
Whew....for a minute there I thought you were calling me d00d!
I'll get over it... I'm just suffering from the usual withdrawl symptoms brought on by a lack of warmth.... and tonight is the time change which adds to the dreary.... arrghh..!
I didn't want to be mistaken for the:ROFLOL: :zroflmao: :zroflmao:firemanfire marshall without the skills to mount billet chrome tour pak hinges! :huepfenlol2:
(hope you feel better soon)
Henry
I can't believe your missing that chrome starter solenoid cover kit.
You know the part I'm talking about?
Do you not like that part?
Part # 31783-00.
It's only 21.95.
It it fits I'm putting one on the 09.
Want me to get you one and send it to you?
:nixweiss:
Thumper needs it!
:2vrolijk_21:
Scott, I'd never insult you or any of my friends like that. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: That's why I spelled it the way I did. :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
It rarely gets too cold to ride down here. What little snow we get does keep the bikes inside tho'. Other than that........if it ain't raining, I don't care if it's in the teens. I'll ride.
Patience, grasshoppah! The parts are enroute, albeit in the form of a new high torque starter and all the appurtenances. It'll come together in the end. :2vrolijk_21:
Sorry, sorry, sorry.
I should have known!
:2vrolijk_21:
There is so much going on with the machine that I can't keep up due to time constraints. I saw new clutch plates and a new ring gear today. New cam plate, oil pump, S&S roller rockers, cams, valve springs, gasket kits, 55mm throttle body with a 58mm plenum, S&S fly wheel.....................on and on and on and on............sheesh. I'm looking forward to getting it back, but at the same time, I'm not in any hurry. Just want it right.
Wow, you're going all out! :2vrolijk_21: Whose throttle body are you using? Are you replacing the cylinders?
Everything is new except the cases and the heads, Scott, and the heads are being reworked. I have no idea whose TB Rod is installing. I peeked at it through the bubble wrap today though. There are so many parts. New SE cylinder studs and pushrods.........SO much stuff. The cylinders are being replaced with Axtell cylinders as shown earlier in this thread. Pistons are Axtell. I've asked Rod to do what he does best. Basically, I told him I want "strong, fast, bulletproof, and reliable."what else could you ask for? :) har! :huepfenlol2: spyder
what else could you ask for? :) har! :huepfenlol2: spyder
what else could you ask for? :) har! :huepfenlol2: spyder
Plus it didn't take 15K post to get there!
:2vrolijk_21:
Well Spydy, since you asked.......... Would you please reimburse me for the cost of all this work? :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:I bought lottery tickets today.. ;)....just hang in there. ;D har! spyder
I bought lottery tickets today.. ;)....just hang in there. ;D har! spyder
I'm countin' on ya, man! :huepfenjump3:If I win that lottery, not only will I pay for yours, but I'll request he build me one just like it. har! spyder
If I win that lottery, not only will I pay for yours, but I'll request he build me one just like it. har! spyder
Shall I schedule an interview? :huepfenjump3:Uhhhhh, better hold off 'till the payout. :-[ har! :drink: spyder
Wow Henry, you are going all out on this build. Sounds like it's going to be a sweet setup. Hope this one lasts you a while longer though. How much is this all setting you back, if you don't mind telling us?Nothing, if I hit the lottery. ;D har! spyder
:devil:
I didn't want to be mistaken for thefiremanfire marshall without the skills to mount billet chrome tour pak hinges! :huepfenlol2:
(hope you feel better soon)
Wow, you're going all out! :2vrolijk_21: Whose throttle body are you using? Are you replacing the cylinders?
I am really impressed with rod's performance...if bob wood recommends them that says a lot...I have talked with them on the phone and they were very helpful...I'm sure they'll hook you up!!!
I am too. Rod and Richard know their stuff. Looked at my new SE cam support plate yesterday after Richard finished installing the Wood's 408G cams with S&S gears. He also rebuilt my clutch (new plates, spring, and starter gear) NICE! Richard told me that Rod is going to do all the machine work (spigot boring, Timken) on my case halves today. Richard is taking the week off to enjoy some riding in the Smokys. Build should be well underway week after next, since all the engine parts are here. Only part on which we're still waiting is my D&D Fatcat.
Henry
You going to get those header pipes coated?
With that motor you will be generating some heat!
:nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Ceramic coating of the interior of the pipe? Where/how many $$ ? :nixweiss: har! spyder
This is why I love this place. I'd have never thought of that, nor known to do it. I'll run it by Rod and see what his plans are. What does coating the header pipes do? What is "coating the header pipes?"
Coating the pipes with a heat resistant material does a couple things. First it keeps more of the heat inside the pipe instead of radiating out on you. Second, keeping that heat in the pipes helps keep exhaust velocities up which in turn helps the scavenging effect. Oh, and thirdly it keeps the pipes looking better longer.
Jerry
Coating the pipes with a heat resistant material does a couple things. First it keeps more of the heat inside the pipe instead of radiating out on you. Second, keeping that heat in the pipes helps keep exhaust velocities up which in turn helps the scavenging effect. Oh, and thirdly it keeps the pipes looking better longer.
Jerry
As usual Jerry is right on all counts.
:2vrolijk_21:
Scott,
Went to Hanceville today. Thump is getting an HPI 55mm throttle body with a 58mm plenum.
OK. That all makes good sense, and sounds like a definite path forward toward my goal of reliability and longevity. Is the process "done" to the inside or the outside of the pipes........and if it is done to the inside, doesn't the resultant decrease in ID affect flow by restricting it since the area through which gases must travel is now smaller? I'm just asking since this discussion has brought out the analyst in me. Thanks.
One more thing.........Rod may already have plans to do this......I just have to ask him..........but if he doesn't, who does this type of work, where are they located, and what is the cost to have the work performed on a D&D Fatcat?
I use a 62mm HPI w/62mm plenum - and I love it.... :2vrolijk_21:
The coating can be done inside - or inside and outside...
The thickness of the coating is insignificant to the flow.
You can buy the header pipe ceramic coated on the inside straight from D&D.
Or
You can have the coating applied to the inside - or both the inside and outside by
Jet-Hot - http://www.jet-hot.com/
or
HPC - http://www.hpcoatings.com/
or
many others...do a google search.....
Is there some sort of mathematical formula, which determines appropriate throttle body size based on other components in the system? Further.....I get the 55mm throttle body size, and I know what a plenum is, but I'm trying to figure out why on my TB the plenum is 3mm larger. Is there a venturi effect, which increases the velocity of the air by having a larger plenum vice TB?
Generally.....I have noticed alot of folks using 62mm TBs on 110cid engines, 50mm TBs on 120cid engines, and in my case, a 55mm/58mm TB on a 117cid engine. It appears, from that structure, that those with more displacement are using smaller TBs...........which makes absolutely no sense to me. :nixweiss:
Is there some sort of mathematical formula, which determines appropriate throttle body size based on other components in the system? Further.....I get the 55mm throttle body size, and I know what a plenum is, but I'm trying to figure out why on my TB the plenum is 3mm larger. Is there a venturi effect, which increases the velocity of the air by having a larger plenum vice TB?
Generally.....I have noticed alot of folks using 62mm TBs on 110cid engines, 50mm TBs on 120cid engines, and in my case, a 55mm/58mm TB on a 117cid engine. It appears, from that structure, that those with more displacement are using smaller TBs...........which makes absolutely no sense to me. :nixweiss:
The general answer is any of those sizes of TB will run well with any of those displacement motors. The dyno may see some differences - buy your butt likely would not...
The difference between bolting on a 58 vs. 62 mm throttle body on the same motor is minuscule for general riding around...
When my family raced (road racing), we would have entirely different configuration motors and carburetors dependent upon the type of track we were running on ... and for this "all out" application - it mattered. 750, 830, 850 carbs - different jetting, different power valves, different flow work, ect. - dyno tuned for the exact type track we were running - and then further adjustments for the weather of the day, ect. The combination of heads, cam, intake, carb would be very different from a slower "torque" track to a faster "horsepower" track. Same with drag racing...these variables are incredibly important...
But for casual bike riding - you would be hard pressed to notice much difference from one throttle body to the next.
If you had a stack of throttle bodies available when your bike is dyno tuned - and you wanted to take the time to try the various combinations on your motor, you would likely find a throttle body best suited for your exact cam/head/exhaust combination. But to the seat of your pants - anything from say - 52mm thru 62mm - would provide a similar result.
So - no - there is no mathematical formula....it all goes to the "combination" of components that you read so much about. Your throttle body is just one piece of the overall puzzle - and selecting the right one depends the rest of your puzzle - combined with how you ride your ride!
Is there some sort of mathematical formula, which determines appropriate throttle body size based on other components in the system? Further.....I get the 55mm throttle body size, and I know what a plenum is, but I'm trying to figure out why on my TB the plenum is 3mm larger. Is there a venturi effect, which increases the velocity of the air by having a larger plenum vice TB?
Generally.....I have noticed alot of folks using 62mm TBs on 110cid engines, 50mm TBs on 120cid engines, and in my case, a 55mm/58mm TB on a 117cid engine. It appears, from that structure, that those with more displacement are using smaller TBs...........which makes absolutely no sense to me. :nixweiss:
Henry
TR of Tman Performance said to buy the HPI 56mm T/B for my Jim's 120.
The numbers were 140/141.
Your "Rod" seems to be very knowledgeable and competent.
My 120 used what it used because my builder wanted to use it.
Trust your builder, he's a good one!
:2vrolijk_21:
I'm just trying to understand throttle bodies and exhaust coating. I think I got it now. That's the main reason we're all here........to learn........well.........some of us anyway. ;D
Did they do it for you Chip? :confused5: I'm surprised that performance pipe mfgs. wouldn't offer that as a option on thier pipes if it really makes a difference. You'd think. :nixweiss: har! spyder
Henry
I tend to trust the ones that have the experience and can back it up.
Brad Yuill of Freedom Cycle suggested that I let them powdercoat my pipes on my 05 SEEG.
He stated the cooling factor and mentioned about the exhaust velocities as the reason for having it done.
So if Brad says yes, TR says yes and Scott says yes, what choice do I have?
:nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Did they do it for you Chip? :confused5: I'm surprised that performance pipe mfgs. wouldn't offer that as a option on thier pipes if it really makes a difference. You'd think. :nixweiss: har! spyder
Did they do it for you Chip? :confused5: I'm surprised that performance pipe mfgs. wouldn't offer that as a option on thier pipes if it really makes a difference. You'd think. :nixweiss: har! spyder
Spydy,
It is my understanding from a post made earlier today by Scott, that D&D will do this, which is the discussion I intend to have with Rod on Tuesday. I want it.
Freedom had it done for me.
:2vrolijk_21:
I should have my header Monday or Tuesday and will take some pictures.
:2vrolijk_21:
That would be great Chip. I'd like to see the product, so I can confirm/update the visualization in my mind. I can't help but be concerned about the durability of the coating tho'. The header will endure untold heat cycles. Most of us here remember the old style metal bath tubs and their coating. Simply put, it was a matter of heating the tub and applying a substance, which formed into the ceramic coating upon contact and as the tub cooled. Wondering if the pipes are done by the same process. That said.......and the destructive little f**k that I can be, I'm just concerned about chipping the coating when the muffler needs to be removed for whatever reason. :nixweiss:
Probably overanalyzing/worrying too much based on visualization. :nixweiss: I'll wait for your pictures. :2vrolijk_21:
The coating of your headers will be under your chrome heat shields...
Roger that, Scott, but how durable is it, especially at the union of the headers to the collector and muffler to collector? In other words, will it crack off over time and cause the collector and of muffler to come loose and/or leak? Will it crack off during removal/reinstallation of the muffler/collector? :-\
Take a look at this
http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=28971.0
End view.Hmmm, that looks like it's been running some of that "special" gas already. ;D
Will put it all together this week and tune ASAP!
:2vrolijk_21:
Hmmm, that looks like it's been running some of that "special" gas already. ;D
:pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
:fireman:
Looks Good Chip! Let us know how the heat is when you get them on.
dOOdI know, but it's close to what it will look like when it does get the "special" fuel. I was just pulling your leg. ;) :D
That's just the coating on the inside.
Look at picture # 109 and 112 and you will see the slip-ons on the SEUC running the premium and the other bikes with the 110.
Next week the SEUC will get to taste the 110.
:2vrolijk_21:
D&D does offer ceramic coating... I did not know this until recently...they don't advertise the fact that this is an option.
Checked on this, Scott, and according to my builder, the only headers on which they offer the coating are the black ones. I don't know how you see it, but after thinking about it in my mind's eye, chrome heat shields on black headers would look like Twolane's old Road King. :pimp: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenjump3:
Your builder is right - they only offer heat coating with the black header pipe... But take a look at a bike with D&D's and see if you can see the header pipe with the heat shield on...
Hate to jump in here but, the reflection of the discoloration on the pipes showing on the transmission cover has always bothered me.
Especially with that big collector on the 09's.
:nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Here's a pic of the reflection from the pipe on the transmission cover on the 09.But for us ECU fans, the Purple & Gold is a neat touch. :P har! :drink: spyder
Nice silver reflection, not the blue and gold like on the original pipe.
So anal really is your middle name... :oops: :nervous: :huepfenlol2:
I take it you're saying black reflection would be an improvement over discoloration reflection, right? :nixweiss: :2vrolijk_21:
Then we agree!
But the best option is HPC coating! Inside and outside!
OK, you have me there!
But black pipes with chrome covers wouldn't work for me.
:nixweiss: :nixweiss:
OK, you have me there!
But black pipes with chrome covers wouldn't work for me.
:nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Yeah, but that orange shirt works for ya though. ;) :P
:devil:
Your builder is right - they only offer heat coating with the black header pipe... But take a look at a bike with D&D's and see if you can see the header pipe with the heat shield on...
I'd see it, Scott. I don't see the forest. Only individual trees, saplings, blades of grass, pine needles, leaves, twigs, and sticks. I had LASIK eye surgery 6 years ago, and during that 30 minute procedure I went from 20/400 to 20/15. Though my night vision has eroded due to the surgery (tradeoff), and I'm starting to notice a decrease in sharpness, my eyes still pick up every little detail. I'd see it. :) :2vrolijk_21:
Unlike Chip, the reflection of the bluing in the side cover has never bothered me, but now that it's been brought to my attention, I'm lead to rethink my position on the installation of plain stock headers without jet coating.
Headed to Hanceville in the morning to gather options and see how much time this will add to the project.
Henry,
I noticed your headers have O2 sensor bungs. Are you planning on going with a closed-loop wideband system, or just going to put plugs in? :nixweiss:
:devil:
Charlie,I take it D&D doesn't sell headers without the bungs anymore? I know V&H still sells pre-07 header pipes without the bungs. I didn't think you were going to go with a closed-loop system, just thought it strange that your header pipes had the bungs on them when an 06 didn't use the sensors...thanks for the clarification. :2vrolijk_21:
I'm not a closed loop fan. D&D shipped the headers with bung plugs. Rod took 'em out prior to packing for shipment to HPC. Once they come back, he'll reinstall the plugs.
I take it D&D doesn't sell headers without the bungs anymore? I know V&H still sells pre-07 header pipes without the bungs. I didn't think you were going to go with a closed-loop system, just thought it strange that your header pipes had the bungs on them when an 06 didn't use the sensors...thanks for the clarification. :2vrolijk_21:
No idea, Charlie, but I imagine by now it keeps costs down to manufacture in bulk one way as opposed to two ways even with the added materiel cost. Retooling means production shuts down during the retool process, and running two lines producing different versions of the same header wouldn't be cost effective. Better to add bungs and plugs to every set and pass the cost onto the consumer than produce legacy equipment which may or may not sell. V&H probably sells more systems than does D&D don't they?
JMHO.
So.......not much new at Rod's Performance. Heads came back. Valve job done. Rod will measure volume this afternoon.
Heat coat the chambers, domes, exhaust ports?? Pistons? (lower head temps!!)
LOL! This would have been helpful info to have this time last week, Scott. :(
I don't know if it's been done, or even if it does need to be done.
Is there anything else I need to do?
hehe....that should do it... ::)
Seriously, though, ask Rod about heat coating components...heads, pistons, cam chest components... anywhere there is friction or exhaust gases flow...
OTT, huh? Well, guess what, you just decided where your cut-off was in this crazy game we love so much. We all have a limit/ceiling/cut-off or whatever you want to call it in our quest to make these scooters into what we want out of them....but, there's got to be a limit. :confused5: :o har! spyder
Almost ready for the drill press
what exactley is the case being drilled for?
Neil - He is set up to bore the case to accept the cylinders.... The blue pieces are the fixturing that keeps the centerlines aligned and the black piece inside the blue fixturing is a boring tool...
I got all squeamish and lightheaded when Rod got to this point, so I took my leave.................couldn't bear to watch...........even though the worst case scenario would mean a free set of brand new same serial numbered cases.........this was a bit more than I cared to know about...........sorta like a colonoscopy. :nervous:
But that is the fun part - the machining and assembly...
The ugly part involves all those wires and things....
The ugly part involves all those wires and things....
OK, so we're "wired" (pun intended) different, Scott. The only thing I like about a machine shop is the smell.............sorta like burning race fuel..........it's addicting. But the actual process........and watching it happen on MY stuff............ :puke:
For those who have been to Traxxion Dynamics and gotten the tour, you know the smell about which I write. My employer has some AWESOME, HUGE mills and lathes......all automated. Watching them do their thing........now THAT is cool.........but not on my cases. :)
Wires are good. I'll tear into a bundle without a second thought as long as I have a wiring diagram, tools........to include a meter........and parts. :2vrolijk_21:
Having just installed a set of Wild 1 575's - and having to disassemble and reassemble connectors to be able to pull wires thru the bars - I have had my fill of "wires and thngs wirey" for awhile!! :vrolijk27: Not my thing.... (maybe I need more fingers??)
Looking good Henry. I watch parts of this last winter with my 117 build. It's not frightening until you own the parts!
JW
Looking good Henry. I watch parts of this last winter with my 117 build. It's not frightening until you own the parts!
JW
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
WOW
Now I'm REALLY glad I wasn't there. There's a ton of meat missing. I saw the apex bolt that came with the Axtell jugs, but using it required drilling all the way through the right case half and securing with a nut on the left case half. Would've been ugly, but could have been dressed up. Rod is finishing my apex bolt like your's, so we can keep 12 pt SS hardware consistent throughout the engine and transmission. Looks great.....so, how is your 117 doing?
But that is the fun part - the machining and assembly...
The ugly part involves all those wires and things....
Even the spaghetti isn't all that scary with a BFH and a gas torch close by for final fitment. I'm with you on the machining though. Love the work. And would always rather do it myself. Might have to leave watching it be done by someone else just because it was being done by someone else. But there's nothing better than the smell of machine oil in the morning.
Heresy.....nothing can replace napalm....
You've smelled both. Machine oil doesn't come with it that often oddly sweet BBQ'd meat smell that sometimes accompanies the other. Sometimes it's the entree and the condiments that matter. And, also, with machine oil you just never have to worry about targeting and/or running like hell.
Both have their place though. And both can make you smile :drink: .
Strong on the bottom but flattens out too quickly. Got over 12000 mile on this build with no runs, no leaks no errors :)
Good luck with yours
JW
I'm hearing good reliability reports from folks who've had their 117 work done. Also hearing they're very strong, but this is the first I've heard of flattening out too quick. We'll see how it goes. Really looking forward to it. Even after she is finished, I'll likely wait for day during which I can ride her home. Certainly don't want her leaving there on a trailer.
Another way to look at it from my perspective: I have not had another cylinder liner slip! You can look at my dyno sheet which is posted in the SERK dyno section. I am the only on with this package that has had a problem. I will look into the flattening out problem some this winter. 3 inches of snow as I type!
JW
Purple bike is at 13K miles. Once she turns over 18K, she'll get a set of Wood's 6 cams, S&S gears, SE cam plate and oil pump, stock lifters, SE pushrods, heat coated Fatcat, and carb work as necessary. Other than a Baker OD6, that's about all she'll get.
Henry
Why 18K?
You sure you want to spend the money for the 6 speed?
:nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Thanks for the questions, Chip.
18K isn't a magic number for me. It is just the number Rod believes, based on his experience, is normal life expectancy for the cam chain shoes. The blue bike failed at just over 21K........and it was ugly. 17K miles later I upgraded that bike to 95cid and the cam chain shoes were heavily worn. Thump had 18351 on the clock when she became a 107 and her cam chain shoes were ate up. Just following my builder's guidance.
On both bikes, I find myself constantly trying to shift into a non-existent 6th gear when on super slabs. At this moment, it is a toss-up. I'll know more once Thump comes home and gets ridden. Along with a Baker OD6, her primary gearing is changing to 3.37, so that will be the tell-tale if the purple bike gets the same treatment.
BTW, is it true that 02 bikes came stock with 3.37 primary gearing, or are they 3.15?
Not sure on the gearing, but the bottom ends were still Timken bearing! ;)
Hoist! 8)
Thanks for the questions, Chip.[/color]
18K isn't a magic number for me. It is just the number Rod believes, based on his experience, is normal life expectancy for the cam chain shoes. The blue bike failed at just over 21K........and it was ugly. 17K miles later I upgraded that bike to 95cid and the cam chain shoes were heavily worn. Thump had 18351 on the clock when she became a 107 and her cam chain shoes were ate up. Just following my builder's guidance.
On both bikes, I find myself constantly trying to shift into a non-existent 6th gear when on super slabs. At this moment, it is a toss-up. I'll know more once Thump comes home and gets ridden. Along with a Baker OD6, her primary gearing is changing to 3.37, so that will be the tell-tale if the purple bike gets the same treatment.
BTW, is it true that 02 bikes came stock with 3.37 primary gearing, or are they 3.15?
[/color]
01 touring bikes were the last to have 3.37. Thanks to the EPA.
[/color]
01 touring bikes were the last to have 3.37. Thanks to the EPA.
Got home, checked the oil, one quart low. Been 1200 miles since my last service. I normally run about 1/2 quart low. Put the bike on the lift, checked primary fluid level. Good. Pull the sump plug..........22 ounces of oil drained out in 15 minutes, and was still "stringing" when I put the plug back in. Sumping? Yes? No? Some other challenge(s)? Options? Courses of action?
Thanks!
Here's another of the new OD6 and oil spout. I think the new oil spout will ease my mind about the dipstick blowing out and getting oil all over the place like it has so many times before. Putting a temp gauge in place of the air temp gauge on the inner fairing.
I have a theory that I believe is worth exploring; although it does involve reading another short novel.
It is my sense that conditions resulting in an increased pressure differential across the scavenge pump’s inlet and outlet ports (lower relative inlet pressure) will also result in a reduction in the pump’s efficiency.
Under certain conditions, early Twin Cam’s provide us with a dramatic example of reduced scavenge pump efficiency. Twin Cam’s manufactured prior to ’02 were prone to purging large amounts of oil (16 to 32 ounces) through the breather in a single event. Oil pump alignment was identified as the reason for the purge, but the pump alignment always remains constant; the purge is intermittent and requires a trigger event. IMHO the trigger event is anything that causes oil to move forward to the upper front area of the oil reservoir and obstruct the vent hole. Vent hole obstruction begins with a reservoir that is well topped up or overfilled. Moving the oil forward involves deceleration, aggressive braking or something like one of those incredible downhill grades on eastbound I-70, west of Denver.
With the reservoir vent obstructed, the scavenge pump quickly pressurizes the reservoir, creating a backpressure in the scavenge pump. The pressure in the reservoir also forces oil through the vent into the camchest, contributing to the quantity of oil purged. Considering that more than 50% of the scavenge pump’s output is air, I believe that increasing the relative pressure across the pump’s outlet port results in a cavitation inside the pump. Cavitation reduces the pump’s efficiency to a point where it pumps at a fraction of its capacity; meanwhile the feed pump continues to fill the engine with oil. I haven’t confirmed this theory, but since the oil reservoir vent was relocated to the oil filler cap area, issues with purging nearly a quart of oil in a single event have simply disappeared in ‘02 and later TC’s.
According to this theory, any circumstance that results in an increased pressure differential across the scavenge pump, reduces the efficiency of the scavenge pump (to a relative degree). The S&S reed valve is designed to lower crankcase pressure while increasing pressure in the camchest and oil reservoir. If this theory is credible, then the installation of the reed valve will have a negative impact on the scavenge pump’s efficiency, increasing the oil level in the crankcase.
If you have a wetsumper, validating this theory would be relatively simple. Use a consistent and reliable method to establish a baseline for the amount of oil running in the crankcase (future post). Modify an old filler cap to accommodate a large diameter (5/8” +) vent hose. Run the test again with the oil reservoir vented through the modified filler cap. If there is no substantial difference in the amount of oil running in the crankcase, the theory is busted. If the theory is validated it will help bring some valuable focus to the search for a solution.
djkak
Rod built a fire in Thump today. She's gone through heat cycling at increasing thirty second intervals up to four minutes. Headed to Hanceville in the morning to check her out and take her for a short ride. Will bring her home on Christmas Eve and leave the purple bike with Rod for carb work. Can't wait to see Thumper FMC again. Been a long, three plus month wait. Doubtful I'll sleep well tonight. Expect copious pictures.Between you and Howie breaking out 'new & improved' scooters for Christmas......we're getting excited vicariously. :2vrolijk_21: har! spyder
Chitcanned the useless "AIR" gauge, and replaced it with an oil temp gauge. Gonna see how she does with the single six row JAGG, but will likely move to dual 10 row JAGGs in series once the HPI oil filter flange is delivered.
Excited? You bet I am! :2vrolijk_21:
Excited? You bet I am! :2vrolijk_21:
Rod built a fire in Thump today. She's gone through heat cycling at increasing thirty second intervals up to four minutes. Headed to Hanceville in the morning to check her out and take her for a short ride. Will bring her home on Christmas Eve and leave the purple bike with Rod for carb work. Can't wait to see Thumper FMC again. Been a long, three plus month wait. Doubtful I'll sleep well tonight. Expect copious pictures.
Chitcanned the useless "AIR" gauge, and replaced it with an oil temp gauge. Gonna see how she does with the single six row JAGG, but will likely move to dual 10 row JAGGs in series once the HPI oil filter flange is delivered.
Excited? You bet I am! :2vrolijk_21:
Looking good Henry!
Can see the reflection of the backside of the pipe in a picture.
Take a deep breath, , , soon, , , soon it will be home!
:2vrolijk_21:
Lookin good there Henry! Give em hell!!! :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3:
All Balls makes good chit, at least their hi-torques I've been using to replace the Hitachi's I've had to over the past few of years! :2vrolijk_21:
But what's with having that thing completely apart and still no Chrome IP? :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:
Good luck this time around man! ;)
Hoist! 8)
Thanks Howie. I'm liking that starter. Never thought it could look so good.
PLEASE, my friend, don't take any offense to what I'm about to say, because there is certainly no offense intended. I never have cared for a chrome inner. I think it is simply "too much." "Tacky" if you will. Just doesn't do it for me. I like the contrast of the blonde inner against the chrome outer. In my eyes, she's much prettier like that. Further, in my eyes, the contrast of a chrome inner against blonde engine cases looks chitty.
That's why we have options. We all gotta make these things so they suit us and our individual tastes. I've done that with my green bike. She's pretty, in my eyes, just like she is. In my eyes, too much make-up is......well........"trashy." :2vrolijk_21:
Hey man, none taken here!!! To each there own when it comes to cosmetics! That's why NO 2 ARE ALIKE!!! :2vrolijk_21:
Hoist! 8)
Great news Henry! Good luck this time around! But nuthin wrong being the future poster boy either, if I ever decide to retire! But I'll be breakin chit TIL I DIE, so don't hold your breath!!! ??? ;D ;D ;D ;)
All the best this time around man! Enjoy your new hot rod!!! :drink: :2vrolijk_21: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3:
Hoist! 8)
http://www.axtellsales.com (http://www.axtellsales.com) YEAH BABY!!!!! I'm really diggin' those blonde finished jugs without all that foreign lookin' diamond cut bling. Looks more..........American. Conservative. :2vrolijk_21:
Very exciting Henry!! It's great being there for this stuff. Gets the blood going.
Now about that diamond cut bling line.. :o :o ;D Looks American to Me! Just messin w/U! Make her the way you want her look.
JW
Thanks for posting all of the pictures, Henry! It is almost as fun looking at someone else's stuff as it is my own. Looks like you've made some great choices with your part selection - and it looks great all bolted together! Looking forward to hearing your ride report!
Lookin' good Henry. Nice Christmas present to yourself. Hey, if you want to get rid of the clearance problem with the rear brake pedal install an EZ brake. Got plenty of clearance and works so much better that stock imo.
Thanks Jerry. It is sleeting south of here right now, so likely Rod will not get to ride today. Alternate plan is to load the purple bike in the trailer tonight, take it to Rod tomorrow afternoon, and if the green bike is ready, trailer it home............which will SUCK...............but at least she'll be home. Purple bike is getting carb work, new tires...........and I'm still undecided about the fender........which means it will likely stay the way it is for now.Here you go: http://bellsouthpwp.net/e/z/ezbrake/index.htm
Never heard of EZ brake. Got a link? We've taken care of the clearance challenge, but it does need some polishing, which means the lever will come off as soon as I get it home.
Here you go: http://bellsouthpwp.net/e/z/ezbrake/index.htm
I absolutely cannot ride without their brake and shift levers. Other mfgrs also make extended levers but my only experience has been with EZ Brake and I am pleased with their products. I have the brake lever, both sift levers and the sift linkage all in billet.
My Christmas break began at 1045 today. Went home, loaded the purple bike in the trailer and headed to Hanceville. When I got there, Richard was out, riding the green bike. Rod and I unloaded the purple bike, and he wrote up my ticket of what I want done. Richard pulled up shortly thereafter. I could hear him round the corner at the Jet-Pep. He was grinnin'.......BIG. He shut the bike down, then both gentleman and I sat down and discussed a few things. Side door is still leaking. Gasket will need to be replaced. Primary mainshaft seal developed a leak. Both will be fixed on Friday. Then Rod asked if I'd brought a helmet, jacket and gloves. Dumb question.
I was as nervous as a cat in a room full of rocky chairs. My limit was 3K rpm, no lower than 2K in 6th gear. I was gone for an hour. WOW! AWESOME! Seems like at 3K she gets turned on........and it was real hard not to bust that limit, but I did as I was told............she moves nice, and sounds so good..........and STICKS in corners better than she ever did with the TWR. Really, Really, Really pleased thus far. Just gotta get the two leaks fixed.
Sounds like you are a happy customer, Henry! Good for you!! :2vrolijk_21:
I guess I missed the removal of the TWR... Why?
What did you replace it with?
Or........you could shorten it to 'Dickle' and then DAWG would luv it also. :-* har! spyder
"Ditch Pickle" gawd!, I like that name!
Henry, Henry
One more day till Thump comes home!
I think you need a sign in the garage for the return!
Welcome Home Thumper
AKA
"DITCH PICKLE"
"Ditch Pickle" gawd!, I like that name!
Good deal, Henry. I can feel the excitment all the way thru cyberspace. :2vrolijk_21: har! spyder
We all can Spdy!
And it's a happy sound!
I see that brown bottle on that lift!
Have another or 12!
Congrats Henry!
:2vrolijk_21:
Great to hear your 117 is home and running great! Sometimes the wait is worth it!
JW
WooHoo!!! Thump's home!!! :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3: :huepfenjump3:
Congrats Henry!!! All the best with her now man!!! And Thump came home the same day as The Snowmaker!!! Bobbsey Twin reborn bikes from different mothers!!! ;D ;D ;D
Healthy and Happy New Year to you, Renea, and Steph!!! :drink: :2vrolijk_21:
Hoist! 8)
Glad your back and your bike too Henry.
:carrot:
:jalapeno:
:cucumber:
:pepper:
:cucumber:
:cucumber:
:cucumber:
:cucumber:
Congratulations Henry! Glad you got Thumper home. :2vrolijk_21:
'Preciate it. Yessir. She's here.
Soooooooooooo. What now? :nixweiss:
'Preciate it. Yessir. She's here.
Soooooooooooo. What now? :nixweiss:
Time for some serious work on,
Burple!
:2vrolijk_21:
Now would be the good time to buy a SERG to add to the collection. No need to say anything to Renea until after you get it home. ;D
Don't want a SERG. I've learned enough about MM to know that should I acquire a SERG, the first mod would be a carb conversion. As for the new SERGs........no thank you. They're pretty, but I'm very proficient at inducing my own motorcycle challenges without the help of that MOCO 110cid.
Now.........if I can find a 1998 95th Anniversary FLTR..........I'll gladly suffer the consequences should I acquire it as suggested by the Gentleman from Southwest Kentucky! :2vrolijk_21:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
A 98 Anniversary FLTR.
It is what it is, but a rare bird it is.
I have been looking for one also for a friend.
:2vrolijk_21:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
A 98 Anniversary FLTR.
It is what it is, but a rare bird it is.
I have been looking for one also for a friend.
:2vrolijk_21:
http://www.powersportsnetwork.com/usedvehicledetail/preownedvehiclecode=1038838/Harley-Davidson%AE/Motorcycles/ROAD+GLIDE+ANNIVERSARY/usedvehicles1038838.htm
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/898220588.html
http://honda.southernhonda.com/pre_owned_detail.asp?sid=01766474X10K29K2008J8I57I10JAMQ1606R0&veh=1038838
http://www.chooseyouritem.com/motorcycles/files/6495500/6495852.html
http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/618990.html
They don't appear to be THAT rare. ;)
Hoist! 8)
http://www.powersportsnetwork.com/usedvehicledetail/preownedvehiclecode=1038838/Harley-Davidson%AE/Motorcycles/ROAD+GLIDE+ANNIVERSARY/usedvehicles1038838.htm
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/898220588.html
http://honda.southernhonda.com/pre_owned_detail.asp?sid=01766474X10K29K2008J8I57I10JAMQ1606R0&veh=1038838
http://www.chooseyouritem.com/motorcycles/files/6495500/6495852.html
http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/618990.html
They don't appear to be THAT rare. ;)
Hoist! 8)
Henry, sorry I missed this yesterday, but congrats on getting Thumper (aka, The Ditch Pickle) back!! Sounds like you got a sweet build there and hopefully a bullet-proof one. I know she's going to get ridden a lot. Good to have her back home where she belongs. :2vrolijk_21:
:devil:
Hey Charlie! Thanks! Definitely a great feeling to have her home. Got to take a quick spin on her one week ago today, but there was a transmission side door and primary leak that needed to be fixed, as well as a few OCD (literal meaning) things Rod wanted to check before he gave her to me. Yesterday and especially today have been the first jaunts of quality time I've spent with the old Girl since she had all this work done. So far, I'm quite pleased........maybe just a little skittish........but I feel really good her. Bottom end is solid. The work and components that went into the top end are second to none. She's a hot rod for sure, but will not be ridden that way. Rod did a build like this one for another gentleman who has already put over 30K hard miles of aggressive riding, jack rabbit hole shots, and generally.........racing on his engine. It was in the shop during one of my visits for a bigger TB. Dry as a bone and solid as a rock. The only differences between mine and his is I have a S&S forged crank, and he has a stock crank......trued, welded, and balanced, of course; 103 heads, and a Borzilla. So the way I figure it, if the build can handle his abuse with a stock crank, then it should be able to handle my riding style. It is powerful......scary powerful.
I've finished putting all the doo dads back on Thumper. Only one snag. The neutral switch cover required a slight modification in order to properly fit without cutting into the insulation on one of the terminals on the All Balls starter. I gotta apologize for this photo, since the mod is sorta hard to see. I'm still getting accustomed to this MacBook Pro, and I can't find a software package on it, which will allow me to draw an arrow or a circle. Just zoom in to the bottom of the neutral switch cover where it normally contacts the rightmost side of the starter solenoid. Had to "notch" the neutral switch cover.
You have a lot of nice things on your bike, Henry! I think she's a keeper!! :2vrolijk_21:
117" Hot Rod motor and he's worried about a Neutral Switch cover! ;D ;D ;D
Only Henry!!! ;)
Hoist! 8)
117" Hot Rod motor and he's worried about a Neutral Switch cover! ;D ;D ;DNow, you know it's not "only Henry"......a lot of us are just that 'obsessed' around here. :oops: And, look who's talking...... :huepfenlol2: har! spyder
Only Henry!!! ;)
Hoist! 8)