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CVO Technical => Intake/Exhaust/ECM => Topic started by: charles05663 on August 30, 2009, 07:29:15 AM

Title: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on August 30, 2009, 07:29:15 AM

Hello Everyone,

 :help:

I am replacing my header with a cat-less one and am running into some issues installing it.   :wall: :furious3:  Is there some sort of trick to install it?

I thought the replacement might be off so I tried the original and it is the same installation issues.

Charles

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: LarryB on August 30, 2009, 07:41:30 AM

whats the problem?
did you remove the right floorboard?
did you seperate the crossunder from the head pipe?
you might want to use new gaskets on the head, make sure they are the SE ones.
Make sure you have a torque wrench.
maybe take a pic with the problem
oh ya, do you have enough beer?

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: gg on August 30, 2009, 09:02:10 AM

Hopefully you also have the service manual for the touring models which will also help guide you thru it. Unlike Larry, recommend you save the beer for after you're done. :)

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Gettinold on August 30, 2009, 09:08:38 AM

Had a little trouble removing mine as well but after a little patience, it fell right aff there. Good luck  :2vrolijk_21:

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: FLSTFI Dave on August 30, 2009, 11:16:19 AM

For me, a cold beer helped with the patience in getting the head pipe back on :coolblue:

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on August 30, 2009, 07:01:31 PM

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the replies.

I have removed the complete exhaust and I am trying to install the cat-less header from a 2009 touring 96" engine.  I have all of the HD service manuals and part manuals (5 total).

1) removed the complete exhaust and right floorboard and rear floorboard support bracket.  The front floorboard support bracket looks like a pain to remove/re-install so I did not remove it; I just removed the floorboard and rear support.

2)  I do have a torque wrench

3)  I replaced the original gaskets with HD part # 65324-83B.  Both the FLTRSE3 and the Touring Models parts catalog list the same part number.  LarryB, do you know of a different part #?  I know when I installed the gasket, it was a tight fit and it seemed to crumple a little bit when they were inserted.  I am assuming they are just pressed in with your fingers, no special tool needed.

4) Although the service manual did not tell me to, I applied anti-seize compound to the header studs.

The problem I am having is with the installation of the header.  I get the front header started and the two flange nuts in place.  When I try and "roll" the pipe on the rear cylinder I cannot get it to lineup or get the exhaust manifold clamp on.

Needles to say at this point the gaskets are all torn up and I am going to have to replace them.  I did pickup two sets so I don't have to drive 90 miles round trip to the nearest HD shop.

I would very thankful for any tips on installing this.  I will admit that I do not have very much repair experience but would like to learn to do my own work on my SERG.  Picking up any tools needed is not an issue; I just want to do the job correctly and as best that I can.

Thank you.

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Fired00d on August 30, 2009, 07:06:09 PM

Your mention of the gaskets made me think of something.... Did you get the old gaskets out?? Not sure if that could create the problem you are having but I remember that someone in the past had left or forget to get the old gaskets out of the heads.

 :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman:

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on August 30, 2009, 07:11:38 PM

Hello Fired00d,

I did get them out.  Used a hook and dug into them and the pulled out fairly easily.

Charles

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Fired00d on August 30, 2009, 07:17:32 PM

Quote from: charles05663 on August 30, 2009, 07:11:38 PM

Hello Fired00d,

I did get them out.  Used a hook and dug into them and the pulled out fairly easily.

Charles

Ok, just a thought... hope you find out (soon) what is causing the problem.. Good luck. :2vrolijk_21:

 :pumpkin:
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 :fireman:

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: moscooter on August 30, 2009, 07:27:34 PM

 :cherry:
I must admit I did not read every entry here........but will add that when installing a complete exhaust system,  you need to start the tightening at the header pipes (at the cylinders) and then work your way back with fitting the remaining pipes/mufflers/brackets.......tightening them down just a bit at a time till the whole thing lines up and fits......before you tighten every thing else up. 

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on August 31, 2009, 02:44:07 AM

I guess my question in a nutshell is, is there any tricks to getting the header installed?

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Highjagger on August 31, 2009, 06:06:38 AM

Try to bring the flange nuts in place without force and play with them with the loosely pipe hanging down ( not mounted anywhere ) twist the flanges till they get easily in the right places where they should be , then screw a little the front flange first then back flange then a little bit tighter , then the rest mounting to rear like it was said here and then really tight at the end .

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: LarryB on August 31, 2009, 07:28:07 AM

sorry I was away from the puter to respond. the prob you are have is the rear bracket of the rider floorboard. yes, it is hard to remove, but it is in the way and won't let you roll the pipe into place.
ya can either rotate the bracket counterclockwise or, remove it. try going at it from the left side of the bike with the ratchet and extension and hex bit. good time to add those floorboard extensions. hope this helps.
the gasket really needs to be pressed into place, by hand of course. use care when doing this.

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: 2UP3DOWN on August 31, 2009, 07:38:35 AM

It's been roughly six months since I did that mod, but I do remember a few areas where I did have some trouble.

1. Replacing the header gaskets.  It's a ridiculously tight fit.  After removing the original gaskets, use emery cloth to lightly sand down the rough surface and clean the edges before inserting new gaskets.

2. The header pipe is installed by inserting the front header pipe loosely onto the threaded stand-offs and then carefully rock the entire header pipe into place until the threaded stand-offs insert into the rear header.  Then work back and forth tightening both front and rear until both headers are torque properly. The key is lots of patience.

After running the bike for a few miles, don't forget to re-check the bolt tightness.

I also found that replacing the gasket in the cross-over pipe was the worst part of the job.  The new gasket really didn't want to go in and the pipe clamp really gave me fits when trying to re-install it

You might want to forgo the beer and go straight for the heroin shot…   actually now that I've done my first exhaust removal/re-installation I feel much more confident in knowing how to do this in the future. It's really not so bad once you get one under your belt.

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on August 31, 2009, 09:09:37 PM

I got my cat-less header from the local HD shop.  It was taken off a 2009 bagger.

I know everything is possible, but what are the chances it is not the same?  I found that the cat header fits but the cat-less one does not.  I wonder if it got damaged when I had it Jet-Hot coated.  Is there methods to fit a header?

I did try and measure them side by side and if they are off I can't really see it.  It appears the cat header is 1/4 wider then the cat-less header.

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Highjagger on September 01, 2009, 01:37:59 AM

A pic of both side by side would be helpful perhaps .

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Highjagger on September 01, 2009, 03:35:20 AM

It appears the cat header is 1/4 wider then the cat-less header.

Hmmmm , pic does anybody agree to this ?

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:01:23 AM

Hello Everyone,

Here are the pics.  The cat-less is the shiny one with the O2 sensors.  The cat is the discolored one.

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:02:35 AM

More standing

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:03:24 AM

Cat header in front port.

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:03:55 AM

Another of the cat in front port

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:04:31 AM

Cat-less in port

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:05:29 AM

Another of the cat-less in front port

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:06:17 AM

side picture of headers

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:06:39 AM

Another of the side

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:24:00 AM

A side by side of the rear port

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Highjagger on September 01, 2009, 09:40:12 AM

The rear cores seem to have different angles , but don`t ask me why , perhaps another from here can help you , the pics are good and you can easily see the differences .

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: LarryB on September 01, 2009, 10:02:00 AM

Quote from: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:24:00 AM

A side by side of the rear port

charles, can you take a pic of the new headpipe held up to the bike, I'd like to see to whole thing together. I'm still thinking it's one of those times when it doesn't look like it will fit and then wham, falls into place.
also, I can't see and weld marks but was this pipe you picked up from the dealer a TRUE catless or one that has been modified?

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 10:25:18 AM

Larry, this is a true 96" cat-less taken off the another bike (the HD's dealer's owner's bike).  I did have it Jet-Hot coated.

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: LarryB on September 01, 2009, 10:37:15 AM

ok, that being said, the jett-hot process should not have done anything to change thre configuration.
when you hold the two pipes side by side, do they look to be exactly the same with no twists or other deviations?

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 11:01:08 AM

They look the same to me.  With that said, this is the first time I have done this and cannot find a standard place to measure the differences.  When I hold them side by side (see pictures) the look the same with the exception of a wider opening at the top of the cat pipe (the cat-less is more curled in).

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: LarryB on September 01, 2009, 01:29:31 PM

did you remove the right side floorboard completely?

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 03:37:30 PM

I did have the floorboard removed.

I ended up calling the old head mechanic from the local HD shop.  He left right before the HD dealership changed hands.  He is about 60 years old (i.e. experienced) and was able to get it on.  I asked how much he wanted and he charged me $25.  I would have paid $100 if he had asked.

 :pepper: :2vrolijk_21: :orange: :mango: :apple: :jalapeno: :cucumber: :pineapple:

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: gg on September 01, 2009, 03:57:11 PM

Charles, so what did you observe that he did differently to get it installed? Thanks

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Highjagger on September 01, 2009, 04:03:10 PM

He surely just had the right feeling in his fingers .
At the end it is good .

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 05:51:24 PM

Not sure what he did.  When he looked at the header he mentioned that the rear cat-less stem did not look like cat rear stem.  I was working (I work from home) and was swamped so I was not able to look over his shoulder.  I think he was glad I was not bugging him.

We spoke about warranty work.  He told me that if you want to get something covered under warranty it is best to call HD directly.  HD does not like to deal with their customers and are quicker to approve claims if it comes from the customers.  If the dealer tries to file a claim, they are quicker to reject it so the dealer has to suck it up.  He told me that he was always fight with HD to get things covered.

Anyway, back to putting on the exhaust.

 :drink:

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Indenial on September 01, 2009, 08:34:03 PM

Doesn't it feel great when a problem is solved?

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:48:20 PM

It does.  I just wish I was the one to solve it. :nixweiss:

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Highjagger on September 02, 2009, 01:55:25 AM

Quote from: charles05663 on September 01, 2009, 09:48:20 PM

It does.  I just wish I was the one to solve it. :nixweiss:

Not everybody can be a genious mechanic , other work must be done as well on this world .  :2vrolijk_21:

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: LarryB on September 02, 2009, 06:37:04 AM

glad it's fixed. I think some brute force was applied

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: Highjagger on September 02, 2009, 11:21:14 AM

Quote from: LarryB on September 02, 2009, 06:37:04 AM

glad it's fixed. I think some brute force was applied

 I also agree , better that he did not looked at him while he solved the mounting problem .  :2vrolijk_21:

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: gg on September 02, 2009, 01:48:17 PM

Well, I guess I got the answer, good ole brute force on the header covered by heat shields. No one will ever know the difference.

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: hogrider98 on September 07, 2009, 07:59:07 PM

just performed this mod.Found a non cat header off a streetglide for $100.00 shiped to my door.
took about 1 hour and 2 cups of coffee.I was having the same difficulty untill I dropped the cross under bracket.
Saved the cat pipe incase the emission nazi's showup in mass.have not changed baffles or retuned yet runs good with no spark knocking

Brian

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: gg on September 08, 2009, 06:47:15 PM

"I was having the same difficulty untill I dropped the cross under bracket."
Hi Brian could you give us a little more detail of what you mean by dropping the cross under bracket?
Thanks

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: hogrider98 on September 09, 2009, 05:32:35 AM

there is a pipe that crosses under the bike from header to the left side.on that pipe there is a hanger that holds the back half of the exhaust up, remove the bolt and let the exh drop.header slips right into place with very little effort.

Brian

Title: Re: %#@*$! header installation
Post by: gg on September 09, 2009, 03:03:49 PM

Thanks Brian, now I understand. Makes sense.