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[jaxx]

just got 2011 cvo reo red rgu. putting on vance hines true duel header pipe and supertrapp fat shots mufflers. need tuner advice.

[Twolanerider]

You doing it yourself or having a shop do the work?  If having a shop do the work you're asking the wrong person/people. 

Ask the tuner what system he is most comfortable and does best with.  You're paying him/her to do the work so get whatever that person will do best with.

[walstibsf]

So, TWOLANE, what do you, as the self tuner, prefer and why?

Tanks.......

[jaxx]

1st timer will have shop do it. thanks

[Fired00d]

1st timer will have shop do it. thanks

If that's the case then talk to the person that will be tuning your bike.. see what they (tuner) suggest... more then likely it will be what they are most proficient with. Better to go w/what they are most proficient with then having your bike be the bike he learns a new system on.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[ralscustoms]

I have a 2011 FLTRUSE  I'm putting on Vance and Hines power duals, and going with Fullsac 2 inch power cores. I'm installing the Power Commander V, Most places that sell them with a map install for your set up on the bike, Power Commander also has custom maps on their web site to download, If you still don't like the way the bike runs the way you like you can always have it Dyno tuned. 

[Twolanerider]

So, TWOLANE, what do you, as the self tuner, prefer and why?

Tanks.......

..... that's a tough one.  I'm honestly not a huge fan of any.  Way too many deficiencies in capability or expected application and use for all of them.  In some case we may not have a lot of options.  

Relying on anyone's "library" of maps to start with is a crap shoot.  Some maps seem good.  But some don't.  And that's whether or not we're discussing Power Commander, Thundermax or whomever.

All the manufacturers advertise their "autotuning" systems without mentioning (or only quietly mentioning) that they don't really autotune anything other than chasing AFR back to where it was to begin with.  And for many users chasing timing on their own and coordinating that with fuel and other settings potentially useful is just beyond their experience.

Even if someone is adept enough with what they're doing to begin to dial their bike in it takes awhile.  To really do it well it takes quite awhile.  Personally I'd rather ride to ride rather than ride to continually grap the computer out of the tour pak, tweak things, rinse and repeat.

On my own bikes or when helping those around locally that come by here to maintain and share a beer I've worked with all the popular tuners.  My choice of the common tuning options would be whatever a really good local dyno shop used.  If there was a really good local dyno shop.  

Such a shop being unavailable I've become quite interested in something else recently.  A proverbial new kid on the block in the tuning hardware market.  A company called Revolution Performance has begun offering a service that builds a map ostensibly to your specific hardware, upgrades the ECM to wide band capability and includes the necessary additional sensors and harness to make it all work.  The enticing thing is that the package is a bolt on.  

Since it programs your ECM to your hardware the package is advertised as a bolt on and use system.  No tuning.  If it's right it is right from almost moment one.  The proof of the pudding is always in the eating of course.  So time will tell if their system is going to be as advertised over the larger cohort that is all of us out here in the riding community.  But if it does it becomes to me a no brainer.  Even if I could use a tuning device effectively why would I blow the hours and hours to get it "close" when I can spend less than hour bolting on a change and be done?  

[rebelhoop]

Hi twolanerider,

I'm in the same situation, interested in a moderate preformance upgrade on my 08 SERK that was tuned with the SE HD tuner that is not very manageable.  My bike acutally works very well as is and I agree with you, ride and enjoy it, constantly tweeking it or adding equipment that could be hard to repair on long trips has lost it's apeal to me.

Do you think that Reveloution preformance can supply equipment that is that close without dyno testing?  Considering that most bikes have some varance even with the same equipment?  Pretty apealing it it's true, alot of us don't have a great tuner in our local area.

Thx.

[Twolanerider]

Hi twolanerider,

I'm in the same situation, interested in a moderate preformance upgrade on my 08 SERK that was tuned with the SE HD tuner that is not very manageable.  My bike acutally works very well as is and I agree with you, ride and enjoy it, constantly tweeking it or adding equipment that could be hard to repair on long trips has lost it's apeal to me.

Do you think that Reveloution preformance can supply equipment that is that close without dyno testing?  Considering that most bikes have some varance even with the same equipment?  Pretty apealing it it's true, alot of us don't have a great tuner in our local area.

Thx.

That's the proverbial "kicker," having a good tuner close by.  I used to have what was literally one of the nation's best ten minutes away.  He used Power Commander.  So I used Power Commander.  Simple solution. 

The gentleman retired awhile back though so now in the same boat as almost everyone else.  That means looking elsewhere.

Can't speak to how mature the new EMS product from Revolution Performance might be.  That would be a product of not just how long it's been on the street but what's been done with it in house.  And that we can't know. 

Can only say that after speaking with a company rep a few times and the company President once I'm cautiously optimistic.  It doesn't have enough history on the street yet for the end user's tale to be told.  That can only come with use and time.

I do believe that what they are suggesting is possible is possible.  Given a large enough data set and a wide enough breadth of experience designing a competent timing curve relative to a given set of hardware spec's isn't (or shouldn't be) a bid deal.  Automotive aftermarket has been doing it for years.  Add to that making the bike chase fuel settings for you with an actually competent wide band operation and there's no reason why what they are suggesting they can do could not in fact be done.

Biggest caveat might be the base electronic hardware.  They're offering the package for Delphi bikes.  But not all Delphi bikes would accept it.  2005 and up.  The 04 and prior ECMs have (I think this is accurate) only about a 1/4 of the onboard memory that the 05 and later ECMs do.  Some differences in processing capability also.  What changes Revolution Performance makes to the ECMs will require the 05 and later modules.

Have read some worries that what they'll do will in some way compromise the ECM or its stability or security on the bike.  As I understand the part it shouldn't.  ECMs have what are essentially three segregated areas within them.  Only one of those is the tuning environment.  And that's the area the EMS product's work makes changes to (according to two different discussions with the vendor).  That being so I'm not worried about them creating some hazard or ill function in the ECM relative to the rest of the bike.

That means if they can get their tuning parameters correct and if their changes to make it wide band operable are true we really could have a bolt in "good tune."  It might not (ok, would not) be a tune that drains every ounce of HP and TQ out of the bike.  But let's face it, almost no tune on a dyno will either.  And many dyno operators do far far less.  They should be, however, capable of good tunes that, using the stock ECMs basic capabilities, make for a good running bike.

I'm interested enough that I'm intent on using the product on a Road King build I hope to do this winter.  What they're doing may be a step ahead of what the motorcycle market is offered.  But its functions are a relative commonplace in the automotive aftermarket.  So I'm just glad someone has taken a step forward to catching us up to the contemporary.  Just because Harley itself has chosen to stay a few steps behind the curve with its on bike engine control systems doesn't mean the aftermarket must take their lead.

[jaxx]

thank u all for the info. dealer uses sert or pc.

[Dennis the Menace]

Jaxx, if the local tuner uses eitehr the SERT (actually, a SEPST) or PC, I would go SESPT.  Its a HD product and a lot of dealers that tune use it.  So, if you find yourself on the open road and have a issue, you are more likely to find a skilled tech at a dealer that is familiar with the SEPST, over a PC.

That said, I have (had) a RevPerf P-EMS on my 07 RG, sold last month.  I had a TMax and then went to SEPST, then P-EMS in October.  The product does what they say it does.  It provides a great running bike and no messing around with maps and data runs and dyno and all that.  Install is, start the bike and let it fully warm up for 5-w0 minutes, and the bike is tuned.  Done.  No more mess.

Going from the SEPST to the P-EMS, I had some low RPM stumble I couldnt tune out.  Off idle RPMs when egine was wamred up was a PITA.  I spent weeks playing with cells and doing Smart Tunes and keep futzing with cells.  I finally gave up and got a P-EMS.

The stumbles and shakes went away and the engine was noticeably smoother running.  It was hard to understand why, but all I know is my problems were cured by this product.

Also, after about 300 miles of riding, I never had any issues with it.  It still ran great and very smooth.  The guy I sold the bike to was pretty happy to get a great running bike, he figured he would have to get it tuned when he got it.  I live at 6000 feet, he lived at 200 feet, above sea level.  I built the motor to run well as all altitudes, so no surprise it ran great for him.

Anyhow, maybe the P-EMS leaves a little performance on the table, but I dont care.  The bike was strong, smooth and no issues at all, so what more do you want?  I have had bikes that didnt run as well that wee tuned professionally.  Probably never again in my lifetime.

Hope this helps someone.

Dennis

[walstibsf]

The SESPT is only as good as the person or tuner that set it up.  Many variables, many options to be considered when doing so.  As with many of the EFI fuelers or ECM choices.

[guppytrash]

What are your goals?
Do you want to make adjustments yourself?  Are you going to rely on a dyno tuner? 
I have tried the HD race tuner and professional dyno tune and was not happy.  I now have the Thundermax/autotune and am very happy. 
My goals were to be able to get a good running bike that did not run so HOT!
Just me, but on the newer bikes I would not consider anything that does not use wide band O2 sensors.
Thundermax, PCV, and new one from Rev Performance all use wide band O2 sensors.
 

[willyB]

just got 2011 cvo reo red rgu. putting on vance hines true duel header pipe and supertrapp fat shots mufflers. need tuner advice.

Jaxx,

I'm in the process of finalizing my decision on headers, mufflers and tuners as well (2011 SE SG). I "think" I'm heading the x-pipe way (I hate the look of the V & H but nobody in my area has had any experience with Fullsac or Jackpot) but I'm pretty firm on getting the V & H High output slip ons. I prefer a little louder pipe and "everybody says" the 2-1-2 pipes are better.

As far as tuners go. All of the opinions out there have more than confused me. I am not a professional by any means and really have no understanding what they are all about. All I can say is that I've had a PowerCommander on my '03 Deuce since 2003 (That's 7 Years) with ZERO problems with anything. I changed pipes, air cleaners and recently cams with absolututely ZERO issues. Each change I made during they way, with the exception of cams, I called Power Commander and they sent me a canned MAP that worked perfectly.

I will say that I'm the type of rider who rides pretty hard on the RPM's (Grip It and Rip It) and I'm always the first guy in my riding group putting on back tires.

I had the bike dyno'd by a pro only because I wanted to see what numbers it could make after the cam (S & S 510G's) change. Cost me $175 to find out that it made exactly what I told the tuner it would make before the tune. Around 90 HP and 95 TQ or something like that.

All in all, I think I'm going with the Power Commander for those reaons PLUS everybody here in St. Louis knows how to tune with the Power Commander. There is only one guy in Illinois that I've heard of that knows how to tune with the TTS Tuner. Trust me, I've called every Harley dealer and builder in a 100 mile radius.

I don't think I need to sweat about extremely minor percentages of HP and TQ increases over one type of tuner over the other. I think I'm putting my trust in something that I've had ZERO issues over 7 years and when I'm out on a ride that there would be somebody who knows how to tune a Power Commander.

HP and TQ numbers are only paper. You will know when your motors running right by one simple fact---Does it feel good or not? If yes great.. If not the spend $175 and let a pro do the tune.

As far as the forum goes so far (I've only been in it for a few days) Lots of Hair Splitting............ Fortunately I ride a Harley and don't drive a Formula 1 car. My head would be really spinning.

[jaxx]

bike goes to shop saturday for install exhaust and sespt tuner. thanks for all advice. ride safe.

[guppytrash]

Good Luck!