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Custom Vehicle Discussions => Screamin’ Eagle® Ultra Classic® Electra Glide® => Topic started by: Hound Dawg on March 21, 2012, 11:10:39 PM
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Hey All....
I've seen some posts on this very subject but they seem to pertain to the rider being buffeted by wind over the shorter windscreen. I've noticed on my new Ultra a wind buffeting of the bike itself....unlike any other FLH I've owned with a bat wing fairing, including an '03 Ultra and an '07 Street Glide. Once I'm above 65mph my bike gets all "squirrelly" up front. It feels like when you running across a grated bridge. Now it's not an unbalanced tire (very smooth) or a very loose steering head bearing.....it just feel like the wind is "buffeting" the bike much like it would my full face helmet when riding without a screen at all. I plan to mention to my dealer when I take "Lucy" in for her 1000 miles service.....but this one feels like we will be chasing our tails getting them to diagnose this one.
Could it be the new wheel?....the windscreen?....the lowers?....head bearing?
I'm very perplexed as, again, this isn't my first ultra and my last one was rock solid at 80+ mph. If this bike just handles this way....I'm VERY disappointed.
Please give me a cure.........otherwise I LOVE this bike. I just can't live with not being able to make time on a highway from time to time. After all it is an ultra for gosh sakes...
Thanx in advance,
HD
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HD, looking forward to the responses you get as I'm in the same boat. Traded a 2010 Ultra Limited that was solid in all types of traffic and most road conditions, but the new 2012 SEUC feels as if it's always following a semi. The slightest wind seems to upset the bike at any speed over 55.
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Mine does the same thing. I traded a 2011 Limited and it was rock solid at all speeds. My 2012 Ultra is much less stable in the same conditions..very disapointed in the handling of this bike.
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On my 12, it turned out to be neck bearings that were too tight. Loosened them up a bit and much less buffeting
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Yes please keep us up to date,have a 12 seuc and having the same issue,came off of a 09 seuc and that was rock solid and hade a great feel,the 12 just doesn't have that solid feel
thanks
jon
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I've been looking all over for an explanation for this and found one post that mentioned that he thought it was the wind coming up from below and possibly buffeting from the tank area.....so it made me think to try removing the lower fairings. I want to figure out what the issue is before I have the dealer start tearing into this bike without really knowing that the heck to do. I road it without the lower fairings up to about a sustained 80mph....and it felt real solid.....but I was only at 80 between exits. So I'm going to continue to ride for a week or so without the lowers and see if I can conclude if they are causing the issue. Early indication suggest that it's now gone. That conclusion sucks, however, since I prefer the look and the protection these lowers offer.
If it comes down to having the look and the protection vs. being stable at 65+ mph....then I'll have to go without the lowers.
Would love to keep this post alive until we can collectively come to a conclusion.
Thanx and cheers,
HD
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I took my lowers off my 04 Seeg long ago. Never any wind issues. I have the new sesg and would take those lowers off, but there are speakers in them. Living in s Florida, lowers are hardly ever needed anyway. I'm thinking about the adjustable wind deflectors. :nixweiss:
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I have a 2010 CVO Ultra, and the handling has always been rock steady from day one. I've ridden in moderate winds (25 mph) on the expressway and only a strong gust from the side will get the bike to move at all when riding. Something on yours definitely sounds off-kilter. Hope you can find the culprit...
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I took my lowers off my 04 Seeg long ago. Never any wind issues. I have the new sesg and would take those lowers off, but there are speakers in them. Living in s Florida, lowers are hardly ever needed anyway. I'm thinking about the adjustable wind deflectors. :nixweiss:
If you go with the adjustable wind deflectors Stu, keep me posted cause I'm interested in knowing how they work.
Thanks ~ Judy
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Judy, Still not sure if I'll go with the deflectors yet. I hear they work some, but it's still gonna be there. It's hot here all the time and I am sure I'd have them wide open most of the time. So would that really do anything? I would hate to take the lowers off, they have speakers in them :'(. Just kind of disappointed that we should have an issue like this one. My 04 is perfect at any speed when it comes to wind. :nixweiss:
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None of this makes good sense, particularly those coming off '09 and later bikes (new frame). A neck bearing that is too tight will cause a "weave" which sounds like what is happening. Too loose causes a "wobble". I would definitely have the dealer check the fall away on the neck bearings as my first course of action. The Batwing bikes need a looser setting than do the Shark Nose (RG) bikes.
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Terry, the ne sg is very stable and steady. I just want less wind. At 85
I am fine heading down the road. I just keep comparing the new bike with my 04. I like sitting up higher and it handles very well without any mods to the front end. I am looking at Traxion sometime too. It's just windy at 70 or above. Help me!!! Somebody! :'(
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Thanx "Midnight"......yes....a "weave" is exactly how I would describe what is happening with my bike. It may make sense, also, that when I reduced my wind resistance by removing the lowers that the "weave"may be less pronounced due to less turbulence . I will put the lowers back on and take it to the dealer to check the neck bearing. Thanx for the tip...
For those that are experiencing the same thing.....keep us posted on your progress and solutions.
Cheers,
HD
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I'm so relieved. This has to be what I'm experiencing. "The Weave" from a tight head bearing. Thanx for pointing me (us) in the right direction "Midnight". Gotta love these forums.
I plan to put my lower fairings back on and get this addressed when I take Lucy in for her 1000 miles service.
Cheers,
HD
The M1246 bulliten refers to the adjustment of the steering head bearings. Harley issued a service bulletin (M-1246)
Purpose
A revised procedure has been identified for adjusting steering
head bearings on 2009 Touring model motorcycles.
Please note this change is unique to 2009 models only and
does not affect earlier model year vehicles.
Required Dealer Action
Inform service staff of this revised procedure and follow this
method when servicing these motorcycles. Replace section
1.21 STEERING HEAD BEARINGS. Place the included
pages into all 2009 Touring Models Service Manuals (Part
No. 99483-09) that are in use in dealer service departments
as well as unsold inventory.
1. See Figure 1-37. Turn handlebar to the right fork stop to
access grease fitting at the left side of the steering head.
2. Inject Special Purpose Grease, Part No. 99857-97 until
it exits from the top and bottom of the steering head.
1. Raise the motorcycle so the front and rear wheels are
lifted the same distance from the floor.
2. Verify that motorcycle is in stock configuration. Remove
all non-factory accessories, since they can influence
front end swing momentum (and lead to improper
adjustment).
3. See Figure 1-38. Turn the front wheel to the left fork stop
and then let go. The wheel should swing from side to
side, finally stopping in the swing specified in the table
shown below. If it stops in the lesser number swing, it
should be at or after the straight-forward position.
4. If the clutch cable or main harness appears to be influencing
swing momentum, proceed as follows and repeat
the previous step:
a. Clutch cable: Disconnect clutch cable from hand
lever. Release cable from P-clamp, remove from
inner fairing, or release from cable clip on instrument
nacelle depending on model. See 2.25
CLUTCH CABLE.
b. Main harness: Remove the rivet and P-clamp to
release main harness from steering head. Secure
P-clamp with a new rivet when procedure is complete.
NOTE
A steering head that is too tight can interfere with the
vehicle's ability to absorb a weave. A steering head that is
too loose can interfere with the vehicle's ability to absorb a
wobble.
5. To correct a swing pattern, see 1.21 STEERING HEAD
BEARINGS, Adjustment.
1. Disassemble motorcycle as follows:
a. FLHR/C: Remove headlamp nacelle. See 2.47
HEADLAMP NACELLE: FLHR/C.
b. FLHX, FLHT/C/U: Remove outer fairing and radio
or storage box as equipped. See 2.37 UPPER
FAIRING AND WINDSHIELD: FLHX, FLHT/C/U
and 7.33 ADVANCED AUDIO SYSTEM respectively.
c. FLTR: Remove instrument bezel. See 2.42
INSTRUMENT BEZEL: FLTR.
2. See Figure 1-39. Loosen pinch bolts (3) on lower fork
bracket.
3. Loosen the fork stem nut (1).
4. See Figure 1-40. Fashion a bearing adjuster tool using a
drill rod 1/4 in. (6.4 mm) in diameter and 16 in. (406.4
mm) long.
NOTES
● See Figure 1-39. Turning the bearing adjuster nut (2) as
little as one notch will make a noticeable difference in
the swing pattern.
● Tap forks with a rubber hammer while turning adjuster
nut to prevent forks from binding in lower bracket bores.
5. Turn bearing adjuster nut (2) as follows:
a. To decrease the number of swings, rotate nut clockwise.
b. To increase the number of swings, rotate nut counterclockwise.
NOTE
Original equipment fork stem nut has a blue dye coating. If a
replacement nut is being installed, the replacement nut will
not have the blue coating.
6. Tighten stem nut to 70-80 ft-lbs (94.9-108.4 Nm).
NOTE
Torque of the stem nut will affect the swing pattern.
7. Recheck the swing pattern and adjust as necessary.
8. Tighten pinch bolts to 53-57 ft-lbs (71.9-77.3 Nm).
9. Verify that the fork stem nut is tightened to 70-80 ft-lbs
(94.9-108.4 Nm).
10. Recheck the swing pattern and adjust if necessary.
11. Assemble motorcycle as follows:
a. FLHR/C: Install headlamp nacelle. See 2.47 HEADLAMP
NACELLE: FLHR/C.
b. FLHX, FLHT/C/U: Install radio or storage box (as
equipped) and outer fairing. See 2.37 UPPER FAIRING
AND WINDSHIELD: FLHX, FLHT/C/U and
7.33 ADVANCED AUDIO SYSTEM respectively.
c. FLTR: Install instrument bezel. See 2.42 INSTRUMENT
BEZEL: FLTR.
12. Install any accessories that were removed during the
checking procedure.
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Well I have totally solved my wind problem. I bought a set of fairing wind deflectors and that did it. The wind is under control and I couldn't be happier with the ride and stability of the bike. When I am residing adobe 60, they are closed and hardly any wind is an issue. My radio is even sounding better due to less wind noise. So that's it,, What can I complain about next? :)
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I don't understand. My 2012 seuc came with wind deflectors on the bottom of my batwing. Is that the same area you are referring to?
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I don't understand. My 2012 seuc came with wind deflectors on the bottom of my batwing. Is that the same area you are referring to?
The SESG's don't come with them....only the SEUC's.
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Yes the SEUC come those side wind deflectors installed on the sides of the batwing, but mine still had a lot of wind buffeting coming from below.
I solved it by also adding black plastic FLTR wind deflector #57000063 for $39 cdn. I had to trim them a bit so they dont contact the batwing when parked with the forks turned.
I have a Freedom 11" windshield on order to better manage the airflow from the top.
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I also have the chrome deflector that mounts down by the triple tree. In front of the tank. 29.00. That helps the wind from blowing from that area. It helps a lot. Get that. You should be good. :)
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I also have the chrome deflector that mounts down by the triple trees. In front of the tank. 29.00. That helps the wind from blowing from that area. It helps a lot. Get that. You should be good. :)
Last week I stopped by my dealer to also get that chrome deflector that goes between the forks and the parts guy, who's been working there for over 30 years advised me against using this deflector in hot weather. FWIW, he said HD used to have that part on the touring models many years ago and they removed it because there was issues with engines overheating in the summer time, as it deflects air away from the rider but also from the engine.
Who to beleive ?
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i asked my tuner about it when i picked up my bike 2 weeks ago. He said it wouldnt hurt a thing.. Looks to me like it would send the imcoming air towatd the engine anyway. They work and I think they are fine. If they were compromising the motor, don't you think that they wouldnt sell these?? :nixweiss:
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Agree, That's why I said "Who to beleive ? "
Another Tuner I asked said HD removed them as they could upset the front suspension handling at speed
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I also have the chrome deflector that mounts down by the triple trees. In front of the tank. 29.00. That helps the wind from blowing from that area. It helps a lot. Get that. You should be good. :)
CVOSTU...where did you purchase these?
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http://www.kuryakyn.com/Products/1796/Lower-Triple-Tree-Wind-Deflector
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I picked one up at the hd dealer. Just hanging on the wall. The kury look pretty cool too.
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Thanks!
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My vote is the head bearing, had it happen to me on other HD bikes. My 12-7 is rock solid.
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Thanx Cerdo......I'm hoping that is it......it goes in for the X-pipe and tuner in a week and it will be checked then.....so we'll see.
Cheers,
HD
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Finally got some road time after installing the lower tree deflector which my 00 had but not the 12. I felt no wind from the front of the tank eliminating the wind pushing up on the front of the helmet. Now if I can get the excessive wind cut down from around the sides of the tank, i would be set!! Might try removing the lowers as one member has and see what that results.
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Alremac, don't you have the faring deflectors? With those and the middle defector, you should be good.They mad a big difference on my sesg. Hope you can get this thing worked out. :nixweiss:
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I have the fairling vents but not helping, hummm...Thanks Stu!
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One other thing I did was I went with the Windvest 9" windshield. That's 1" taller than the one on my 04 Seems like I sit up higher on the new bike. Maybe that will help. The Windvest also had the lip that sends the air over your head. I'm 6ft 3 and have the 9 When you re sitting on the bike, the top of the shield should be about even with your mouth.
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One other thing I did was I went with the Windvest 9" windshield. That's 1" taller than the one on my 04 Seems like I sit up higher on the new bike. Maybe that will help. The Windvest also had the lip that sends the air over your head. I'm 6ft 3 and have the 9 When you re sitting on the bike, the top of the shield should be about even with your mouth.
I was lookin at goin the windshield route and seeing the Freedom shield on this site as they offer a 15% discount but let me see what you have as nothin like a proven product. Thanks Stu!
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I was lookin at goin the windshield route and seeing the Freedom shield on this site as they offer a 15% discount but let me see what you have as nothin like a proven product. Thanks Stu!
Cant go wrong with the Freedom shield also. Material is a little thicker than the others so they do not bend, the curved lip is very effective at pushing the wind over the head, and the quality of the optic when looking through it is amazingly clear and distorsion free. I just ordered a second one so I have the choice between a low and high one.
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Cant go wrong with the Freedom shield also. Material is a little thicker than the others so they do not bend, the curved lip is very effective at pushing the wind over the head, and the quality of the optic when looking through it is amazingly clear and distorsion free. I just ordered a second one so I have the choice between a low and high one.
Silver, how tall did you do with your Freedom shield? The 12 came with a 10 in but I was thinking of going an inch taller but the site sez you can go shorter because of the curve which directs the wind over the rider's head.
Cheers, Frank
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Hi Frank,
I'm 6' with a long torso and with the stock HD 10" I had wind all over my face.
I got the 11" Freedom shield wich may be a bit tall as I see above and through it, depending if I sit upright or not, but it's very clear even when looking through it. If I put my hand flat on top of my helmet it does not get the buffeting as it starts only about 1 1/2" over my head.
I now ordered a new 10" shield to see above it at all time.
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+1 for Freedoms..I have a few...long freeway trip, 12" and full face helmet, I can peer over it but sit behind it if it buggy, rainy...with hours over 80+ mph, it helps. For roundeebout rides, I use an 8" and skid lid (DOT, of course) ..Git a couple, east change out.. :drink:
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Hey All....
I've seen some posts on this very subject but they seem to pertain to the rider being buffeted by wind over the shorter windscreen. I've noticed on my new Ultra a wind buffeting of the bike itself....unlike any other FLH I've owned with a bat wing fairing, including an '03 Ultra and an '07 Street Glide. Once I'm above 65mph my bike gets all "squirrelly" up front. It feels like when you running across a grated bridge. Now it's not an unbalanced tire (very smooth) or a very loose steering head bearing.....it just feel like the wind is "buffeting" the bike much like it would my full face helmet when riding without a screen at all. I plan to mention to my dealer when I take "Lucy" in for her 1000 miles service.....but this one feels like we will be chasing our tails getting them to diagnose this one.
Could it be the new wheel?....the windscreen?....the lowers?....head bearing?
I'm very perplexed as, again, this isn't my first ultra and my last one was rock solid at 80+ mph. If this bike just handles this way....I'm VERY disappointed.
Please give me a cure.........otherwise I LOVE this bike. I just can't live with not being able to make time on a highway from time to time. After all it is an ultra for gosh sakes...
Thanx in advance,
HD
My '06 SEUC is the same way
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Hi Frank,
I'm 6' with a long torso and with the stock HD 10" I had wind all over my face.
I got the 11" Freedom shield wich may be a bit tall as I see above and through it, depending if I sit upright or not, but it's very clear even when looking through it. If I put my hand flat on top of my helmet it does not get the buffeting as it starts only about 1 1/2" over my head.
I now ordered a new 10" shield to see above it at all time.
Can you post your results once you get it mounted? I'm torn between the Freedom and Windvest as both sound like good products. but if the 10" works well for you then it might just be the ticket since we might have the same torso build. Did you return your 11" for credit towards the 10". My backside is padded and I might need to go with the 11...or quit eattin' 4 whole fried chickens for dinner every stinkin night. :orange: Oh and can't forget the toast. :2vrolijk_21:
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Hi Frank,
I'm 6' with a long torso and with the stock HD 10" I had wind all over my face.
I got the 11" Freedom shield wich may be a bit tall as I see above and through it, depending if I sit upright or not, but it's very clear even when looking through it. If I put my hand flat on top of my helmet it does not get the buffeting as it starts only about 1 1/2" over my head.
I now ordered a new 10" shield to see above it at all time.
Thanks Silver! Sounds like the 10" might be the ticket for me as I am bout 5'10" and can peer over the OEM shield well but it doesn't do much for buffering.
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I personally like the windiest better. Great as far a buffeting and I didn't really care for the "thick" look on the Freedom. It almost left me a little gap when closing up the fairing. The windvest is the same as a stock shield. I use the 9" ad I'm 6ft3. Just right. I use their stuff for years. I'm sticking with it. :2vrolijk_21:
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Can you post your results once you get it mounted? I'm torn between the Freedom and Windvest as both sound like good products. but if the 10" works well for you then it might just be the ticket since we might have the same torso build. Did you return your 11" for credit towards the 10". My backside is padded and I might need to go with the 11...or quit eattin' 4 whole fried chickens for dinner every stinkin night. :orange: Oh and can't forget the toast. :2vrolijk_21:
Yes, I still have the 11". When I get the 10", I will test and report on the difference from 11 to 10
I dont have any experience with other brands shields, but any of the curved models seems far better than the OEM HD shield.
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I came off a 2011 SE Ultra and noticed the unstable feeling on the 2012 SE Ultra. I had the Dealer look into it. After allot of investigation we changed the front wheel out. The problem didn't go away. Then we put a different type of front wheel on the bike and it rides like a dream. It appears to be an issue with the Chisel wheels. Harley is relaxing the Chisel wheels with the Roullet design from last year. Bummer, since I liked the design of the Chisel wheels.
If anyone is having these issues, swap out the front wheel with a different designed one and see if the issue goes away.
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how did you figure this out did your dealer have someone else with this problem,as i to have the same problem and a few of us. i came off of a 09 cuse and notice this problem on the 12.you just don't have that feel in the ft end like the 09 cuse
thanks
jon
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We found it during the process of trying to diagnose the problem. The Dealer was very involved. They first rode the bike and agreed there was an issue. They contacted Harley and went through all the scenarios. They put a full sized windshield on, confirmed the neck bearings were adjusted properly. They happened to have a take off wheel and tire from a Street glide so they replaced the front wheel and tire with it. The problem went away. So they first replaced the tire, thinking it was a defective tire. The problem still existed. Then they replace the Chisel wheel with another Chisel wheel and the problem still existed. Then they test rode another 2012 SE Ultra that they had gotten in. It, too, had the same problem. So they could only say that the Chisel wheels were the issue, since once it was replaced on the front, the problem went away. Therefore, they are replacing the Chisel wheels with the 2011 SE Ultra wheels.
If you can, have the front wheel replaced temporarily with another type wheel and see if you have the same results.
Let me know what you find out.
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thanks mike for the follow through,will be contacting my dealer tomarrow and I will let them know,what was the name of your dealer,that might help if the dealer maybe have a reference to go by .would not be happy if it is the wheels,I like the way they look :cherry: 8)
thanks
Jon :bananarock: :bananarock:
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Sounds like a plan. My Dealer is Mancuso Central in Houston Tx. The main number there is 713-880-5666. The Service Manager is Joel Pousan. He is very familiar with the issue and can provide all the detail needed.
It is a shame these Chisel wheels have this issue. I personally believe its a design issue around the air flow over the spoke surfaces. From the reports on this website it looks like allot of folks are experiencing this issue. I hope my findings are helpful.
Good luck and please let me know what you find out.
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Sounds like a plan. My Dealer is Mancuso Central in Houston Tx. The main number there is 713-880-5666. The Service Manager is Joel Pousan. He is very familiar with the issue and can provide all the detail needed.
It is a shame these Chisel wheels have this issue. I personally believe its a design issue around the air flow over the spoke surfaces. From the reports on this website it looks like allot of folks are experiencing this issue. I hope my findings are helpful.
Good luck and please let me know what you find out.
no doubt you all have an issue with the front end but waht I am curious about is if the issue is the Chisel wheels, wouldn't all of us be experiencing the same issue? I just came off a ride yeserday running the back hill winding roads and I rode her like as if I was on my crotch rocket and she performed flawlessly ???
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Good question.
The issue on mine seemd to be most noticeable when running interstate speeds on that type of pavement. From the comments above mine, it does look like a number of folks are experiencing the simular issues. The biggest deciding factor for me was when they replaced the Chisel front wheel on mine and I went on a 2000 mile trip and no issues. Perhaps it's a particular lot/run of the wheels. Don't really know.
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Thanks mike for the reply,As why all the bikes don't do it and only some is a GREAT Question,I hope it is not the wheel as for a factory wheel i do like the looks of it,I talked to my dealer that the bike was bought from and they said they would call hd and get back to me.One Question for Mike is how did the ft end feel and also in the corners.As I have said before my 2012 doesn't have that feel th 09 had.
thanks
Jon
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Update (Original post on this subject):
I got my '12 Orange SEUC back and the dealer performed flawlessly in replacing my seat, voltage regulator, and installing my Fullsac X pipe and tuning it with a HD Super Tuner. Runs really well.....Like all that.
He did check the "fall-away" on the neck bearing and found it to be a bit tight. He also found that that the rear tire had 60 lbs of pressure in it. (Delivered that way) So those two together resulted in a pre-ride conclusion that the "buffeting" mentioned in my original post would go away.
Well.....while improved.....she is still a bit "all over the place" on the highway around 65 mph. It's better but still not what my previous Ultras were. Like I said earlier it feels like I'm driving across a grated bridge. It's as though I'm ridin a gyrscope and just a bit a movement from wind or road and the whole bike wants to "shift" or "Buffet" a bit. The wheel makes sense....but like others....I'm bummed as I really like (love) this bike and those wheels....but as a person that plans to ride a significant amount of highway, this is a bit disappointing. I'll have to think about my next step....as getting new wheels is such a drastic, expensive alternative....and I like the looks (alot) to boot.
I guess more to come....
Thanx for all the responses...
I'm asking myself.....should I just live with it given all the other things I like about it? Seems kinda bad given that it's my dream CVO.
HD
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No. You should take it back and make the dealer make the corrections to make it right. That's a CVO and it should hold the road. My sg runs down the road perfectly and if it didn't it would be right back there. Maybe the wheels is the problem. If it is go with another style. The '11 ultra wheels seem to be ok. You can't see em when you are riding anyway. Good luck. Hope things improve for ya.
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The previous person is ABSOLUTELY right. Harley needs to make it right. Make them provide a new set of wheels. It's their issue. To prove it's the wheels, have them put a different design (could be a std takeoff wheel) wheel on the bike then ride it. If it does like mine, the problem will disappear. No better way to point out that the CVO wheels are the issue.