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[jagger]

Picked up a 2011 SE Road Glide ultra a week ago (red), At 700 miles I noticed a faint smell of what I thought was 90 weight gear lube...Harley doesnt use that..a short time later I heard a ticking sound (800 miles now) stopped to check the oil and a full quart low??? Made it home changed the oil and headed out again, the smell of burnt oil became worse (900 miles) and now the bike is running hot...oil temp 240F, every stop the pressure drops to 5 psi,engine bogs, blubbering rattles, ticking in the motor, at 60 mph 15 psi pressure, smell of burnt oil is constant...no leaks, not over filled...I'm wondering if the oil pump is not scavenging oil from the top end flooding rocker boxes and sucking oil into the intake, no smoke out the pipes...the entire garage smells like burnt oil...any ideas??? My dealer does not inspire confidence...I'm now at 1100 miles headed to the dealer.
Jagger

[Cvostu]

you better get 'er in there soon

[Chrome O]

HOW ABOUT AN UPDATE???

[jagger]

I wont be able to get it to the dealer until Thursday eveing...Should be interesting, I will post the results.

[mr_magoo]

That sounds like a normal 110 motor.

[grc]

That sounds like a normal 110 motor.

     It does sort of sound like a normal MoCo product these days.  Considering the relatively low volume of 110 engines they produce in a year, the number of major failures is mind boggling to me.  Just considering the failures we read about on this site, and realizing that there are many more that never get posted here, I wouldn't buy one on a dare.  Even the Yugo or Chevy Vega didn't have this kind of failure rate.

Reading the description of the problem, there are some items that do in fact sound like normal characteristics of the crap they sell now.  5 psi at idle is now normal with the latest style cam plate, but 15 psi at 60 mph definitely is not normal.  Oil pressure should be between 30 and 38 psi at 2000 rpm.  And the bogging off idle and blubbering could be the result of the engine idle temperature management system shutting down the rear cylinder.  The oil temperature of 240°F is normal.  Using that much oil in such few miles is definitely not normal.  The best idea is to get it back to the dealer and have them do some diagnosis if they are capable.  If the bike is wet sumping (oil not being pumped back to the tank properly), that's fairly easy to figure out by draining the crankcase and measuring the amount of oil.  If it's actually burning the oil, it's still just basic diagnostic techniques but unfortunately many Harley shops don't know much about those things. 

Let us know what they say.


Jerry

[J-Carr]

    It does sort of sound like a normal MoCo product these days.  Considering the relatively low volume of 110 engines they produce in a year, the number of major failures is mind boggling to me.  Just considering the failures we read about on this site, and realizing that there are many more that never get posted here, I wouldn't buy one on a dare.  Even the Yugo or Chevy Vega didn't have this kind of failure rate.

Reading the description of the problem, there are some items that do in fact sound like normal characteristics of the crap they sell now.  5 psi at idle is now normal with the latest style cam plate, but 15 psi at 60 mph definitely is not normal.  Oil pressure should be between 30 and 38 psi at 2000 rpm.  And the bogging off idle and blubbering could be the result of the engine idle temperature management system shutting down the rear cylinder.  The oil temperature of 240°F is normal.  Using that much oil in such few miles is definitely not normal.  The best idea is to get it back to the dealer and have them do some diagnosis if they are capable.  If the bike is wet sumping (oil not being pumped back to the tank properly), that's fairly easy to figure out by draining the crankcase and measuring the amount of oil.  If it's actually burning the oil, it's still just basic diagnostic techniques but unfortunately many Harley shops don't know much about those things. 

Let us know what they say.


Jerry

In addition to the bogging the Heat Management could be causing the smell.  I've notice a pecular oder when mine is active and I guess it could be considered to be similar to the smell of burnt gear lube.  But that low oil pressure is for sure an issue of some sort.

Ride Safe,
JC

[jagger]

Folks thanks for the feedback, my other 09 SE 110" motor never had these issues, with the problems on this bike beginning at 700 miles a full quart low, no smoke or leaks, smell of burnt oil I think I'm convinced that oil pump is not scavenging back to the reservoir leaving oil in the cases and rocker boxes thats where the smell is coming from...if they have to pull the cam cover I'm going to install a Fueling pump, backing plate and cams...Kind of a shame that you spend nearly $40 large and have to ante up more bucks you dont have to correct another problem,,, I dread the process of having to educate the dealer and the downtime...planned a 1600 mile trip in a week and a half, this is a real vote of confidence that I wont be sitting on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere, you know I will be listining at every noise, smell etc. Jagger

[DesertHOG]

Dropped the bike at the dealer today, extensive discussion with the service manager, not a clue as to the root cause but promissed to put one of their best techs on the job...will consult with HD for a solution, sounded like extended downtime...

Ironic...tossed a wheel weight on the trip to the dealer...it made a perfect shaped dent inisde the front fender...another warranty claim.

Are you rollin yet Jagger? What did it turn out to be?

[HawgDoc]

Symptoms of a sumped (oil-filled) crankcase include extreme engine braking, feels like you're dragging an anchor when you let off throttle. Be CAREFUL if you ever remove the case drain plug (never supposed to be removed normally) because it is a pipe plug thread which is tapered... when you put it back in dont just keep turning expecting it to bottom out, you could crack the case. It's best to let the dealer do it. 8 to 10 ounces oil in crankcase is normal amount.

[jagger]

The dealer had the bike for a week, rode it 4 miles and concluded "the factory lower fairings did'nt allow enough air to travel around the engine thus the smell is the NEW break in" They couldnt explain where the oil went...what a lame answer...The smell is still there and I noticed small amounts of oil on the cam cover just above the pipe, no visible leak. No oil on the frame, thought it may be spitting out of air cleaner but its dry...more to follow...Jagger

[grc]

Based on the relatively low number of new 2011 CVO owners (on this website) it sure sounds like there are an awful lot of problems with the 2011 CVO touring models. GM, Ford, and Chrysler have come a long way in cleaning up their act. So what doesn't HD doesn't understand about the importance of putting out a quality product? Maybe we need to put together a North American ride to Milwaukee, where tens of thousands of HD riders converge converge on the MoCo head quarters next summer, and show all the employees, from the executives on down, how important quality is to us. We can call this event "The Motor Company Quality Express Ride", and call our group the "Sons & Daughters of HD Quality".

     
      

That might actually make sense IF Harley didn't already know their quality sucks, but they most assuredly do know.  Much of the lack of quality and reliability is the direct result of the decisions made by the top management to cheapen designs, cheapen parts, cheapen tooling, piss off the workforce, and buy crap from the cheapest suppliers.  I think a large group of riders converging on Milwaukee would do a lot less than the opposite approach; large numbers of riders avoiding Harley and Milwaukee.  That's what will eventually fix the problems, when people quit buying and accepting junk.  That's a big part of what caused certain American companies like Ford to make huge efforts to improve quality; it was either that or just fold up the tent when we couldn't compete for sales with the folks from Toyota and Honda.  It's not an easy process, but when the choice becomes do it or go out of business the decision becomes much easier.  Harley has not been convinced yet, because too many people continue to pay exhorbitant prices for substandard products.  I'm afraid if you had tens of thousands of riders just show up in Milwaukee to protest, Harley would just spin it to make it look like another of their get togethers and then find a way to make money on the whole thing.  The one thing they do understand completely is how to squeeze money out of us.

My suggestion, vote for quality in motorcycles the same way you did with automobiles, with your wallets.  And if you continue to hand your money to them even after knowing about the problems and lack of customer service, don't look to me for sympathy.  Ever heard that expression "you get what you pay for"?  Well, Harley is one of those exceptions to the rule.


Jerry

[jagger]

Count me in on the quality ride...or bikes that have to trailered due to problems. I've had some great responses from the CVO Harley site and still think oil is collecting in the cases being sucked into motor via the intake. I about blew a cork when the dealer told me there was not enough air flowing around the motor due to CVO lower fairings and the smell was new bike...B.S.

I think this speaks more to the lack of methodical diagnostic experience of the dealership, if a dealer reported a problem to MoCo I would hope they would step up for the repair... one week after purchase...Plus I have too many HD Tee shirts to ride a Glod Wing...Jagger

[J-Carr]

That might actually make sense IF Harley didn't already know their quality sucks, but they most assuredly do know.  Much of the lack of quality and reliability is the direct result of the decisions made by the top management to cheapen designs, cheapen parts, cheapen tooling, piss off the workforce, and buy crap from the cheapest suppliers.  I think a large group of riders converging on Milwaukee would do a lot less than the opposite approach; large numbers of riders avoiding Harley and Milwaukee.  That's what will eventually fix the problems, when people quit buying and accepting junk.  That's a big part of what caused certain American companies like Ford to make huge efforts to improve quality; it was either that or just fold up the tent when we couldn't compete for sales with the folks from Toyota and Honda.  It's not an easy process, but when the choice becomes do it or go out of business the decision becomes much easier.  Harley has not been convinced yet, because too many people continue to pay exhorbitant prices for substandard products.  I'm afraid if you had tens of thousands of riders just show up in Milwaukee to protest, Harley would just spin it to make it look like another of their get togethers and then find a way to make money on the whole thing.  The one thing they do understand completely is how to squeeze money out of us.

My suggestion, vote for quality in motorcycles the same way you did with automobiles, with your wallets.  And if you continue to hand your money to them even after knowing about the problems and lack of customer service, don't look to me for sympathy.  Ever heard that expression "you get what you pay for"?  Well, Harley is one of those exceptions to the rule.


Jerry

I agree for the most part Jerry.  But I do know that Harley can't stand to be embarassed publicly.  Willie G. is the nicest guy in the world... Until you bring up the 110 issues.  Then he acts surprised and shortly has somewhere else to be.  The rest of the MoCo management is no better.  As near as I can tell Wandell doesn't even know what end of a bike goes up.  But I assume he's really impressed with self cancelling turn signals since it was a featured video for the 2011 rollout.

A ride large enough to draw the presses attention would certainly embarress them.  But my fear would be that it would kill their sales even worse.  And before they could retool they'd be out of business.  I'd love to see them get better, but I don't want to put them out of business in the process.  I guess it may come to that eventually but I hope, like Ford, they can wake up and get better.  My second most hated vehicle was a Ford.  My most favorite is a Ford.  Who knows?  Stranger things have happened.

Ride Safe,
JC

[SBB]

My suggestion, vote for quality in motorcycles the same way you did with automobiles, with your wallets.  And if you continue to hand your money to them even after knowing about the problems and lack of customer service, don't look to me for sympathy. 
Jerry

It has taken years but I'm with you Jerry.
I will continue to support my dealer but as far as buying a new Motor Company product "Not going to Happen!"
Why support the Motor Company when they don't support their customers.
Sad but true.

SBB

[kb]

Unfortunately, you guys are right. Harley won't change until its too late. Maybe it's time to sell my CVO and buy that brand new Ford Shelby I've been drooling over. It even comes in white.

 I have made a living selling Ford for the last 27 years. I've seen some outstanding product and some absolute JUNK.Ford is on the top right now. I hope that they don't make the same mistakes that were made in the 90's. The Shelby is a great fun car however it is not perfect either. JMO kb

[Resbiker]

I would run the livin' hell out of it and hope it blows!  Instead of spending more money on this motor, blow it and move the refund into a different motor....something non-Harley perhaps?

[Cvostu]

Makes me want to hang onto my 103 forever

[harloff]

  Jagger,

             Any news on issue, worse/better?

[fast96]

The dealer had the bike for a week, rode it 4 miles and concluded "the factory lower fairings did'nt allow enough air to travel around the engine thus the smell is the NEW break in" They couldnt explain where the oil went...what a lame answer...The smell is still there and I noticed small amounts of oil on the cam cover just above the pipe, no visible leak. No oil on the frame, thought it may be spitting out of air cleaner but its dry...more to follow...Jagger

Good morning I have got over 2000 miles on mine same thing little sprinkles of oil on the top of the pipe and the cam cover has little traces of oil I will be dropping mine off today to get looked at never did it till I had the 1000 mile service done at 1625 miles. It also used 1 quart but has not used any since and is currently a little overfilled and I was thinking thsat might be the problem I will let you know! Chris

[RedDevil]

Good morning I have got over 2000 miles on mine same thing little sprinkles of oil on the top of the pipe and the cam cover has little traces of oil I will be dropping mine off today to get looked at never did it till I had the 1000 mile service done at 1625 miles. It also used 1 quart but has not used any since and is currently a little overfilled and I was thinking thsat might be the problem I will let you know! Chris

Good chance that's what it is/was.  If you over-fill these bad boys, they have a tendency to blow some out of the air cleaner, which would explain the drops on the pipes and cam cover and the fact that it didn't happen before your service.

[B.A.]

As soon as I read the description of the "smell" I knew what you meant.  Mine did the same thing right out of the box.  2k on it and every once in awhile I get a whiff, usually during accelloration.

No evidence (on the exhaust) of oil leaving the breather though.

I just assumed the smell was due to some lubricant, maybe even machining lube burning off somewhere.  But, the smell persisted.

Anybody ever solves this one please let us know!

Oh, no oil level issues either high or low here.

A few other issues for other threads........

[Old Harley Dude]

jagger,

Have you done any mods on your scoot? I switched out to a heavy breather and used the wrong bolts to mount it to the engine.  My oil pressure went way down and I started burning oil. Changed to correct bolts and all better. Still pissed about spending all the money I have to get a decent running bike.  Not there yet.

[fast96]

Good chance that's what it is/was.  If you over-fill these bad boys, they have a tendency to blow some out of the air cleaner, which would explain the drops on the pipes and cam cover and the fact that it didn't happen before your service.

Well just got the call from chesters HD they found the oil cooler lines have loosened up from the break in and the return line was leaking and blowing to the cam cover they put 20 miles on it and its gone. That being said it shows up right away so i'm confident they fixed it I will repost if there is an issue. Chris

[dep47]

My 010 SE5 will give me a wiff of what smells like 90 weight gear lube every once in a, while when I start it, no oil leak or smoke I can detect.  Have 27,000 miles on the bike with no engine problems and only a couple of ounces of oil used between changes.  I use Mobil-1 20-50.  I assumed it was something to do with the compression releases.

[sadunbar]

As soon as I read the description of the "smell" I knew what you meant.  Mine did the same thing right out of the box.  2k on it and every once in awhile I get a whiff, usually during accelloration.

No evidence (on the exhaust) of oil leaving the breather though.

I just assumed the smell was due to some lubricant, maybe even machining lube burning off somewhere.  But, the smell persisted.

Anybody ever solves this one please let us know!

Oh, no oil level issues either high or low here.

A few other issues for other threads........

Very likely you're smelling transmission oil via the vent hose (the vent in the transmission top cover).   

[sadunbar]

My 010 SE5 will give me a wiff of what smells like 90 weight gear lube every once in a, while when I start it, no oil leak or smoke I can detect.  Have 27,000 miles on the bike with no engine problems and only a couple of ounces of oil used between changes.  I use Mobil-1 20-50.  I assumed it was something to do with the compression releases.

x2...  Very likely you're smelling transmission oil via the vent hose (the vent in the transmission top cover).   

[fast96]

Well 50 miles later no oil leak I also had the same smell  when I crank it over my smell seams to be coming from my air cleaner area, once in awhile it pops through the air cleaner and that smell seams the same as previous described.

[sadunbar]

Well just got the call from chesters HD they found the oil cooler lines have loosened up from the break in and the return line was leaking and blowing to the cam cover they put 20 miles on it and its gone. That being said it shows up right away so i'm confident they fixed it I will repost if there is an issue. Chris

A bit perplexing of a diagnosis...  The oil cooler lines are clamped onto the cooler and cooler adapter....  Unless they've been changed, their not the type clamp that can "loosen up" - rather a one time use clamp.  Also not sure what about the break in would "loosen" this type clamp.  

More likely to believe the motor was slightly overfilled - as this is common and will result with your symptoms.  If you change your own oil in the future, you'll likely find your motor only requires 3 1/2 quarts (or slightly less) to fill.

[fast96]

They replaced both clamps as per the service receipt, I checked the engine oil lastnight and it was still slightly overfilled so I stole the wifes turkey baster and sucked out about 7 oz of oil we will see I'm riding a bunch at the end of the week supposed to be almost 80 by Friday. Thanks Scott for the info! 

[Mrs Rooster]

They replaced both clamps as per the service receipt, I checked the engine oil lastnight and it was still slightly overfilled so I stole the wifes turkey baster and sucked out about 7 oz of oil we will see I'm riding a bunch at the end of the week supposed to be almost 80 by Friday. Thanks Scott for the info! 

So is the wife getting a new turkey baster in her Christmas sock? 

[Old Harley Dude]

It's rumored that Syn 3 makes for a good browning bast.

[fast96]

Yes, she will be getting an upgraded version just in case she was attached to the old one. And of course I didn't ask for permission.

[Rooster]

Cool, you keep the old one she gets a new one no problem

[Harley Guy 5]

So When the subject start there was a lot of bad mounthing going on. now you have it fix and it seemed to be a simple fix
Are you liking the 110 engine or do you think it was a bad buy?
I have put over 23000mile on my bike with no problems but it's only a 96"

But i'm thinkg of go with a 2011 SE UC