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CVO Technical => Drive Train => Topic started by: ltank on May 04, 2020, 01:16:33 AM
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I am replacing the clutch plates in my Baker Street Clutch after 38k miles. I will be using the stiffer Diaphragm Clutch Spring for Racing and thier Heavy Duty Throwout Bearing. The other spring is only good for 120HP. I have S&S V124. Baker recommended ATF fluid with Mercon or Dextron I think. Should I use Primary oil instead?
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use what Baker said to and the trans fluid is the FORD speck not the GM one
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Ok Thanks. Baker didn't specify Ford or GM.
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I use the Mobil 1 Synthetic trans fluid that meets both specs, and it works fine in a stock Harley clutch, not just a Baker clutch. This is in an older five speed Big Twin, not the later models with the Cruise Drive six speed and latest design primary. I have no experience running ATF in the late models, but as far as the clutch goes it would be fine in those as well. What I don't know is how the ATF would work with the new style compensator.
Jerry
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I'm using ATF Fully Synthetic in my Ultra Classic its been working fine moving from "N" to 1st is smooth and have no issues back onto "N" and with no clutch drag like I had before I changed over. I'm no expert but I do know what works for me and that's ATF Fully Synthetic in the primary
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I'm using ATF Fully Synthetic in my Ultra Classic its been working fine moving from "N" to 1st is smooth and have no issues back onto "N" and with no clutch drag like I had before I changed over. I'm no expert but I do know what works for me and that's ATF Fully Synthetic in the primary
Most everything I've seen or read is that the compensator needs an EP rated oil. I used Redline MTL, nice & smooth ..very worked very well, compensator was happy ...
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I use Red Line in all 3 holes.
Went to 20-60 weight to quiet some of the twin-cam 'ticking'. (Rocker Lockers in the near future.)
Their V-Twin home site - https://www.redlineoil.com/h-d-v-twin
Primary oil site - https://www.redlineoil.com/v-twin-primary-case-oil
Love their products!
Cheers,
Smoketown
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Most everything I've seen or read is that the compensator needs an EP rated oil. I used Redline MTL, nice & smooth ..very worked very well, compensator was happy ...
There's nothing really special to a compensator its only demand is abundance of lubrication. What does EP do for it?
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Wow, kind of a crazy thread. Never even thought of ATF in any hole of the bike......
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When I went to Barnett plates they recommended B&M Trick Shift ATF. Worked great. No clunk easy to find neutral etc
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Wow, kind of a crazy thread. Never even thought of ATF in any hole of the bike......
It's a natural when you're talking about wet clutches. A typical automatic transmission is filled with wet clutch packs, and the fluid is specially formulated to work with those clutches. The auto industry has even used ATF in manual gearboxes in the past, and in transfer cases. Harley wet clutches have been famous (infamous?) for clutch drag going way back. ATF made a huge difference for me in earlier models with 5 speeds, can't speak to the 6 speed primaries.
Jerry
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It's a natural when you're talking about wet clutches. A typical automatic transmission is filled with wet clutch packs, and the fluid is specially formulated to work with those clutches. The auto industry has even used ATF in manual gearboxes in the past, and in transfer cases. Harley wet clutches have been famous (infamous?) for clutch drag going way back. ATF made a huge difference for me in earlier models with 5 speeds, can't speak to the 6 speed primaries.
Jerry
Since I was introduced and been running with ATF in my 6 speed all the issues have gone,..such as heavy 1st gear engagement, sitting at a light and having to hold the dike back from creeping forward, (clutch drag) having to put it in "N" to backup, (clutch drag) most of the time having to turn the motor off to get it into "N". There's such a difference on how heavy it was to shift on the foot shifter I literally had to push on the toe arm to get low and high gears.
It didn't happen straight away but after a while it got better and better were now I only have to tap the shifter into gear up and down can push the bike back with out fighting the clutch dragging when in gear.
Just mentioning the noticeable difference in using ATF. in my 6 speed. What it's doing for the compensator I don't know but the compensator as far hasn't been complaining.
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So if I were to put ATF in my '09 primary, which ATF would be recommended?
Thanks, Stay Safe Guys!
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So if I were to put ATF in my '09 primary, which ATF would be recommended?
Thanks, Stay Safe Guys!
I like (and use) Type F ATF in the primary of my bikes. I use the B&M Trick Shift product. ATF is a good product for our clutches. However....
I don't recommend it on the newer bikes. Not because of any difference in the clutches but because of the newer compensators. They are (or at least were) weak enough I'm more comfortable with something with better lubricating properties.
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I add this to the ATF in the primary just to give the compensator that little bit more protection,...at least that's what I'm lead to believe, and so far the primary hasn't been complaining.
BTW, this product does state not for type "F" ATF. I use TRIPLE QX ATF Dexron III
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There's nothing really special to a compensator its only demand is abundance of lubrication. What does EP do for it?
It's an Extreme pressure additive, like that in gear oil. From what I have read, the sliding cam that rides on the sprocket is the issue and it's needs an EP rated lube.
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It's an Extreme pressure additive, like that in gear oil. From what I have read, the sliding cam that rides on the sprocket is the issue and it's needs an EP rated lube.
Curious, what do you use in your primary with the rated EP Or do you add it ?
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I ended up getting Spectro Heavy Duty Primary Chaincase 85 weight oil. Baker also recommended that too. Waiting on plates and Heavy Duty Diaphragm Clutch Spring. I misplaced mine. Can't find it anywhere! I also have the Baker Heavy Duty Throwout Bearing Kit. I had it but never used it. The Baker 6 speed O.D. gearset works great! Baker told me thier 6 speed Direct Drive wouldn't hold up to my motor.
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I ended up getting Spectro Heavy Duty Primary Chaincase 85 weight oil. Baker also recommended that too. Waiting on plates and Heavy Duty Diaphragm Clutch Spring. I misplaced mine. Can't find it anywhere! I also have the Baker Heavy Duty Throwout Bearing Kit. I had it but never used it. The Baker 6 speed O.D. gearset works great! Baker told me thier 6 speed Direct Drive wouldn't hold up to my motor.
Don't you hate it when that happens (losing chit)? This afternoon I was farting with my old Road Glide for another hour or so. Couldn't find the o-rings that go under the rocker arm assembly. Knew they were out there somewhere. Just knew it. Couldn't find the damn things anywhere. Wasted a half hour looking for them. Then wasted another 45 minutes back and forth to the dealership to get a pair. When I got home I found the originals. Humbug!
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Don't you hate it when that happens (losing chit)? This afternoon I was farting with my old Road Glide for another hour or so. Couldn't find the o-rings that go under the rocker arm assembly. Knew they were out there somewhere. Just knew it. Couldn't find the damn things anywhere. Wasted a half hour looking for them. Then wasted another 45 minutes back and forth to the dealership to get a pair. When I got home I found the originals. Humbug!
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Don't you hate it when that happens (losing chit)? This afternoon I was farting with my old Road Glide for another hour or so. Couldn't find the o-rings that go under the rocker arm assembly. Knew they were out there somewhere. Just knew it. Couldn't find the damn things anywhere. Wasted a half hour looking for them. Then wasted another 45 minutes back and forth to the dealership to get a pair. When I got home I found the originals. Humbug!
You obviously have an infestation of garage gnomes. They are evil creatures with a wicked since of humour. They will move parts and tools so you can't find them. Once you give up looking, they will put them back so that when you come back they are there. Haven't found an exterminator that knows how to get rid of them yet. ;D
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You obviously have an infestation of garage gnomes. They are evil creatures with a wicked since of humour. They will move parts and tools so you can't find them. Once you give up looking, they will put them back so that when you come back they are there. Haven't found an exterminator that knows how to get rid of them yet. ;D
They suck. Total bastards they are. Demonic. Back in 2008 I lost a set of adjustable pushrods in the middle of working on the red SEEG I used to have. Gone. Vanished. Nowhere in the shop or (where they should have been) on the parts cart I was working from. Spent hours looking for them.
Finally to finish the job ordered another set. Of course, because that's what you do when the garage gnomes and the Travel Gods conspire to screw with you.
A year later I found the pushrods. Under a stack of rags I'd covered the pushrods with to protect them. In a drawer. Found them while working on the engine on my Road Glide. So used them there instead of ordering a set for it. Had no reason to touch them since until (for real) this week when working on the Road Glide again. Took the pushrods out and reinstalled (last night actually) and called them bad names both times; just for messing with me a dozen years ago.
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As the saying goes, it was in the last place you looked. Which is pretty obvious; who finds something and continues looking for it.
Back to primary oils, I've tried just about everything and settled on the MA2 spec motor oils. Cleanest drain plug magnets and best clutch grab.
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ya:all want great primary fluid choices mobil1 synthetic trans fluid or mobil1 racing 4t 10w40
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:: this is made for the job, why over think it
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:: this is made for the job, why over think it
I use Amsoil 20w50 in the motor no complaints
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Do you know what temp the ATF fluid is rated for?
I have seen primary cases, measured by an infrared thermometer reach temps over 400 degrees in extreme cases. Even in typical highway usage it is going to be over 275 degrees. I know that the atf in my truck never gets above 180.
Just something to think about...
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ATF is just like motor and other oils, it starts breaking down between 250 and 275 degrees.
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