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[hd-dude]

There is a new power commander that retains the stock O2 sensors available:

http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander_ex/powercommander_information.aspx


Also I installed a new product from Daytona Sensors this weekend called the twin tuner. It is for 07 and later bikes. This unit allows fuel mapping using the same mapping data that the PCIII usb uses and has independent tuning for each cylinder or basic mapping via on board controls for 9 different tuning areas. This unit is very cost effective at $189 MSRP. The only thing it does not do compared to the PCIII is allow timing adjustments. The install of this was really easy and can be removed without big brother knowing it was there.......

http://www.daytona-sensors.com/Twin_Tuner.html

[Hoist!]

Does anyone actually know what this PC EX does? The site says "It's a street approved fuel injection module" and "CARB E.O. No. D-619". Then it goes on to say: "The PCIII EX offers virtually the same tuning functionality as our “race only” Power Commander line, while at the same time complying with the California ARB regulations."

The same functionality, fine. But if it's street legal, how will it allow the lower AFR's we're looking for?
 
Then: "On 2007 Harley-Davidson (and the 2006 Dyna) the PCIII EX interfaces with the bike's stock 02 sensors to provide optimal fuel economy. Additionally, it allows fuel mapping capability (both fuel and timing) at higher RPM and throttle opening for maximum horsepower and torque."

If it uses stock sensors, it's a narrow band system. It won't autotune across the whole operating range.

It appears this thing is so PC can continue to be used in CA, where everyone's getting fined for non-CARB approved mods. If it's street legal, it can't do what we want it to, can it? If it were that easy, wouldn't they come like this from the factory? What am I missing here? This EX Model appears to be the answer to continuing selling in CA, but not the answer we're looking for. Any comments from someone familiar with this product and clear up the confusion? This product is not available yet, and the dealers on the East Coast are not even aware of it! What's you guy's take on it? This should be interesting!

Hoist!

[hd-dude]

The Ex unit does not allow map changes in an of the lower throttle position cells. I have not played with the software yey but have been told that it is about 40% throttle and below.

[Hoist!]

The Ex unit does not allow map changes in an of the lower throttle position cells. I have not played with the software yey but have been told that it is about 40% throttle and below.

Thanks Jim, does that mean it's at stock ECM settings at the lower throttle positions, and use the stock narrow band O2 ECM control? Hoist!

[hd-dude]

Thanks Jim, does that mean it's at stock ECM settings at the lower throttle positions, and use the stock narrow band O2 ECM control? Hoist!

Yes. The system runs in closed loop at the lower throttle positions and open loop in the uppers just as the stock setup does. When in open loop mode you can richen things up.

Both the Twin Tuner and PCIII EX work in this manner.

[Twolanerider]

Two words Howie; Thunderdome (or Thundermax or something like that).

[Hoist!]

Yes. The system runs in closed loop at the lower throttle positions and open loop in the uppers just as the stock setup does. When in open loop mode you can richen things up.

Both the Twin Tuner and PCIII EX work in this manner.

Thanks Jim. It sounds like the beginning of a crackdown on aftermarket products to be in compliance. It'll be interesting to see what the other mfr's do (or have to do). And how it would effect the TMAT. Sounds like we better get the good tuning systems while we can! Hoist!

[Chief]

Also I installed a new product from Daytona Sensors this weekend called the twin tuner. It is for 07 and later bikes. This unit allows fuel mapping using the same mapping data that the PCIII usb uses and has independent tuning for each cylinder or basic mapping via on board controls for 9 different tuning areas. This unit is very cost effective at $189 MSRP. The only thing it does not do compared to the PCIII is allow timing adjustments. The install of this was really easy and can be removed without big brother knowing it was there.......

http://www.daytona-sensors.com/Twin_Tuner.html

I like the following from their website....

The Twin Tuner works great in combination with our new Twin Scan II+ tuning aid. You don’t need a dyno for precise tuning. All you have to do is install the Twin Scan II+ and ride the bike around some. You can then copy the air/fuel ratio corrections calculated by the Twin Scan II+ into the PC Link Tuner software.

Harry, would you like to chime in and comment on the statement regarding the simplicity of tuning on the road. It sure sounds easy, but I can tell you, it takes a good bit of work to get the whole map covered. A good radar detector comes in handy too. 

Overall, I am very pleased with the Twin Scan II+. It's a good piece of equipment. It just isn't quite as easy as it is pitched to be, but that isn't the fault of the unit or Daytona, just a fact of nature.

Chief

[Unbalanced]

That is a bit misleading.   The first thing is setting your A/F ratios to what you want them to be.   The second thing is that you have ERRAND Data no matter how accurate you think the data is going to be.  Yes you can filter out some unstable data, but not all of it.   I can take the bike out 10 times gather data and while the data maybe close there is ALWAYS A change that can be made to the same blocks.   So depending on how ANAL you are as a person / tuner will depend on how close you think you have the map.   While the overall process is not hard it is also not easy, because you have to understand how what changes you make effect the bike.   I have 30 plus runs recorded at this point with different things in mind for each run such as trying to improve on fuel mileage while not hurting performance and yet reducing the temps / heat.

I have to agree with Chief it is a nice tool, and it is helpful across the board, but don't buy it if your not ready to put some time and effort into using it.

Would I buy it again, yep sure would this is the best any bike of mine has run in terms of smoothness while riding / power delivery.   Still working on the gas mileage thing while I try some different mapping structures.

I have let a few people ride my bike from the site and if they like they can comment on how it runs.

-harry

[Chief]

That is a bit misleading.   The first thing is setting your A/F ratios to what you want them to be.   The second thing is that you have ERRAND Data no matter how accurate you think the data is going to be.  Yes you can filter out some unstable data, but not all of it.   I can take the bike out 10 times gather data and while the data maybe close there is ALWAYS A change that can be made to the same blocks.   So depending on how ANAL you are as a person / tuner will depend on how close you think you have the map.   While the overall process is not hard it is also not easy, because you have to understand how what changes you make effect the bike.   I have 30 plus runs recorded at this point with different things in mind for each run such as trying to improve on fuel mileage while not hurting performance and yet reducing the temps / heat.

I have to agree with Chief it is a nice tool, and it is helpful across the board, but don't buy it if your not ready to put some time and effort into using it.

Would I buy it again, yep sure would this is the best any bike of mine has run in terms of smoothness while riding / power delivery.   Still working on the gas mileage thing while I try some different mapping structures.

I have let a few people ride my bike from the site and if they like they can comment on how it runs.

-harry

HEY!!!! Dang it! I resemble that remark!!!!

[hd-dude]

I have to agree with the comments on the TwinScan II+, Its a great tool in combination with the WEGO IID unit. It does take a lot of time to get things right but with patience and a bunch of runs you can get the bike darn near perfect.

[Rhino]

You can buy this, its a lot of work, you can tune with wide band sensors, but you then need to change back to the narrrow band ones after the tune, and what good i that?   TTEC is not easy, ask Harry.
Thunderdome is easy and ..................faster than Harry.....

Rhino

[Twolanerider]

You can buy this, its a lot of work, you can tune with wide band sensors, but you then need to change back to the narrrow band ones after the tune, and what good i that?   TTEC is not easy, ask Harry.
Thunderdome is easy and ..................faster than Harry.....

Rhino

Rhino, the one time I had a TT in hand looked over the directions could see HOURS of time ahead to begin to get it close.  Had the buddy whom it belonged to send it back where it came from.  Neither of us had that much time or patience.

Thunderdome is fire and forget though.  Do the install and setup then just walk away.  Hard to beat from that perspective.

[kojak]

S :)ounds like still not as effective as a SERT except for the possible warranty hassle. We have nicer dealers in MD than in NYC Hoist!

[Hoist!]

S :)ounds like still not as effective as a SERT except for the possible warranty hassle. We have nicer dealers in MD than in NYC Hoist!

I guess we'll find out! I just found a broken tooth from the Starter Ring Gear on the Primary drain plug. Unless there's a better fix, I'll be having them fix it under W.....ty! Any other ideas? Hoist!