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[Hoist!]

Hey Gang, I have my bike in for tuning. They were going to do the normal manual Dyno Tune. My friend told me that they ordered the PC Tuning Link for the Power Commander. This software connects the bike to the Dyno and sniffers, to help the tech tune the bike. When you get to each load/TP you're setting for, the computer automatically enters the optimum values for each cell. The download should be in this afternoon. I'll be the Guinea Pig for this, as I'll be his first. He was in Vegas a few weeks ago at the PC school for this. At the class, they manually tuned, and Tuning Link tuned the same bike. My friend was amazed at how well the software worked. He said it created a custom map in less than 1/2 hour of Dyno time. They could not get better results from manual tuning, as evidenced on the Dyno. If you think about it, this is the way it should be. Why would you have to manually enter numbers in numerous cells, when a computer can do it for you automatically. I'm hopefully optimistic that this new program will generate a perfect map for my bike. It will also help level the playing field amung tuners, if this funtion is taken out of their hands. I'm sure that a very experienced tuner can get similar results, but can he do better? What do you guys think about this?

Hoist!

[Chief]

Hey Gang, I have my bike in for tuning. They were going to do the normal manual Dyno Tune. My friend told me that they ordered the PC Tuning Link for the Power Commander. This software connects the bike to the Dyno and sniffers, to help the tech tune the bike. When you get to each load/TP you're setting for, the computer automatically enters the optimum values for each cell. The download should be in this afternoon. I'll be the Guinea Pig for this, as I'll be his first. He was in Vegas a few weeks ago at the PC school for this. At the class, they manually tuned, and Tuning Link tuned the same bike. My friend was amazed at how well the software worked. He said it created a custom map in less than 1/2 hour of Dyno time. They could not get better results from manual tuning, as evidenced on the Dyno. If you think about it, this is the way it should be. Why would you have to manually enter numbers in numerous cells, when a computer can do it for you automatically. I'm hopefully optimistic that this new program will generate a perfect map for my bike. It will also help level the playing field amung tuners, if this funtion is taken out of their hands. I'm sure that a very experienced tuner can get similar results, but can he do better? What do you guys think about this?

Hoist!

Watch out Howie, you've just described the TMax / AT. Except this one is still requires a dyno. It does, lower the cost of the tune which will make the PC more attractive, at least until a similar program is available for SERT tuning.

Would be interested in seeing a top tuner tune a bike, and then let the software do the same and see how different the maps are.

[Hoist!]

Watch out Howie, you've just described the TMax / AT. Except this one is still requires a dyno. It does, lower the cost of the tune which will make the PC more attractive, at least until a similar program is available for SERT tuning.

Would be interested in seeing a top tuner tune a bike, and then let the software do the same and see how different the maps are.

Mostly agree Chief. It is Auto Tuning, but not self-tuning. As far as I'm concerned. The TMAT requires dyno tuning to get the correct place for the autotune to zone in on. If you load a Zippers map in to get close, you're zoning in on a map that might or might not be correct. The only way for TMAT to work properly is to have a correct map to start with. If every engine is different, then a canned map will get you an autotune that zones in closer and closer to in incorrect map possibly. That can make it run worse and get worse mileage! Dyno Tuning is the only way to set up a map that is specific to your own engine. So this Tuning Link does what TMAT doesn't. It auto tunes based on the Dyno/AFR requirements for your engine.

They did tune the same bike both ways in the class. PC personnel and students did the manual tune, and they watched the computer do it for them in about 1/4 of the time. I'm hopeful Dynojet got it right. These people know an awful lot about FI, timing and tuning. I'll give it a shot. He can always manually tune it if we're not happy, but don't see why this wouldn't work properly if the software is good!

Hoist!

[VAZHOG]

Hey Gang, I have my bike in for tuning. They were going to do the normal manual Dyno Tune. My friend told me that they ordered the PC Tuning Link for the Power Commander. This software connects the bike to the Dyno and sniffers, to help the tech tune the bike. When you get to each load/TP you're setting for, the computer automatically enters the optimum values for each cell. The download should be in this afternoon. I'll be the Guinea Pig for this, as I'll be his first. He was in Vegas a few weeks ago at the PC school for this. At the class, they manually tuned, and Tuning Link tuned the same bike. My friend was amazed at how well the software worked. He said it created a custom map in less than 1/2 hour of Dyno time. They could not get better results from manual tuning, as evidenced on the Dyno. If you think about it, this is the way it should be. Why would you have to manually enter numbers in numerous cells, when a computer can do it for you automatically. I'm hopefully optimistic that this new program will generate a perfect map for my bike. It will also help level the playing field amung tuners, if this funtion is taken out of their hands. I'm sure that a very experienced tuner can get similar results, but can he do better? What do you guys think about this?

Hoist!

Just in time for a nice Sightseeing trip down the BRP I'm sure it will be a Blurrrrrrrr and sparks all the way 

[Chief]

Mostly agree Chief. It is Auto Tuning, but not self-tuning. As far as I'm concerned. The TMAT requires dyno tuning to get the correct place for the autotune to zone in on. If you load a Zippers map in to get close, you're zoning in on a map that might or might not be correct. The only way for TMAT to work properly is to have a correct map to start with. If every engine is different, then a canned map will get you an autotune that zones in closer and closer to in incorrect map possibly. That can make it run worse and get worse mileage! Dyno Tuning is the only way to set up a map that is specific to your own engine. So this Tuning Link does what TMAT doesn't. It auto tunes based on the Dyno/AFR requirements for your engine.

They did tune the same bike both ways in the class. PC personnel and students did the manual tune, and they watched the computer do it for them in about 1/4 of the time. I'm hopeful Dynojet got it right. These people know an awful lot about FI, timing and tuning. I'll give it a shot. He can always manually tune it if we're not happy, but don't see why this wouldn't work properly if the software is good!

Hoist!

I think you'll be fine. We'll have to run 'em when you get here to see how my DIY map compares to your perfeshunol one.

[Unbalanced]

Howie,

This software has been around a while and quite a few of the tuners already use it and have.   The only issue with it timing.  In short it gives an avg. tuner the chance to make more people happy and hopefully save them more money due to all they have to do is set the target A/F then hold the throttle which the software tells it where at a specific spot for the run then it goes on to the next throttle position and does these.   The only issue I have with it is that I would rather see more time in between pulls than I have seen to allow the engine to cool a bit to normal operating temp.   Even with fans when you start holding it open for several of these rpm ranges it gets pretty warm.

[Talon]

Hoist, I don't have the TM W/AT yet, but I though I read that the base map gets you close, and the auto tune can adjust up to 50% to get it dialed in? You need to start with a map that's close, is this not true? Not sure where I heard this.

[Hoist!]

Howie,

This software has been around a while and quite a few of the tuners already use it and have.   The only issue with it timing.  In short it gives an avg. tuner the chance to make more people happy and hopefully save them more money due to all they have to do is set the target A/F then hold the throttle which the software tells it where at a specific spot for the run then it goes on to the next throttle position and does these.   The only issue I have with it is that I would rather see more time in between pulls than I have seen to allow the engine to cool a bit to normal operating temp.   Even with fans when you start holding it open for several of these rpm ranges it gets pretty warm.

Thanks Harry, it sounds like the software works OK, but you think more time is required to let the bike cool off between runs? Is there any shorfall to this method of tuning? Are all parameters dealt with, or is it a "good enough" tune? This will be my friends first time doing this outside of class training. Is there anything he should do or know, to get the best tune out of the software? Any other info to be offered? Thanks again Harry! Hoist!

[Hoist!]

Hoist, I don't have the TM W/AT yet, but I though I read that the base map gets you close, and the auto tune can adjust up to 50% to get it dialed in? You need to start with a map that's close. Is this not true? Not sure where I heard this,

Talon, my understanding is that the TMAT zones in on a set of parameters and optimally adjusts to those parameters. You can't get all the info into an ECM to have it self Dyno Tune. It can only tune to some target it's given and adjust/fine-tune, based on the feedback it gets. If that target is incorrect, how would the ECM know that? It might zone in on an AFR, but can't get all tuning parameters set up properly.I'm certainly no expert on TMAT, and I could be off base here, but I have seen no explanation of how this ECM works at getting the best tune for an engine, without telling it what the full range of parameters are first. All I've seen says to load in Zippers base map and let it fine-tune itself from there. To me, the TMAT should be set up on a Dyno first, to get the ECM the correct information for it to fine tune to. But as far as I'm concerned, the Dyno is an important part of the entire process to properly set up and tune an engine. Hoist!

[Chief]

Thanks Harry, it sounds like the software works OK, but you think more time is required to let the bike cool off between runs? Is there any shorfall to this method of tuning? Are all parameters dealt with, or is it a "good enough" tune? This will be my friends first time doing this outside of class training. Is there anything he should do or know, to get the best tune out of the software? Any other info to be offered? Thanks again Harry! Hoist!

Howie,

I'd be interested in knowing what target AFR's your buddy shoots for in the different cells. If that is information he wouldn't mind sharing, I'd like to see it. If he doesn't want to give it away, get it anyway. Only joking. Kind of.

[Chief]

Talon, my understanding is that the TMAT zones in on a set of parameters and optimally adjusts to those parameters. You can't get all the info into an ECM to have it self Dyno Tune. It can only tune to some target it's given and adjust/fine-tune, based on the feedback it gets. If that target is incorrect, how would the ECM know that? It might zone in on an AFR, but can't get all tuning parameters set up properly.I'm certainly no expert on TMAT, and I could be off base here, but I have seen no explanation of how this ECM works at getting the best tune for an engine, without telling it what the full range of parameters are first. All I've seen says to load in Zippers base map and let it fine-tune itself from there. To me, the TMAT should be set up on a Dyno first, to get the ECM the correct information for it to fine tune to. But as far as I'm concerned, the Dyno is an important part of the entire process to properly set up and tune an engine. Hoist!

Unless I'm way off, the only thing you're tuning for is a target AFR. Of course you don't want pinging, but the only parameter you're adjusting is fuel to move the AFR to where you want it. Knowing what AFR you want is the key. Please see my post above. So for the TMAX, you put in the AFR's you want in the different cells, and let it go for it. A close map means you'll get there quicker, but in the end, it's the target AFR you're after. I think.

[Hoist!]

Howie,

I'd be interested in knowing what target AFR's your buddy shoots for in the different cells. If that is information he wouldn't mind sharing, I'd like to see it. If he doesn't want to give it away, get it anyway. Only joking. Kind of.

Chief, I'm hoping to be there when he does it if possible. I still don't know what parameters you tell it vs. what the computer does for you. He has an air conditioned Dyno Room and the ambient temp stays fairly constant. The engine temp of course, has to be controlled as well. I'm curious to compare the map this program generates to the map in my bike. That map was generated by my friend for another SERK3 with V&H exhaust and stock SE A/C. It will be an interesting learning experience noe the less! Hoist!

[hard10]

Now I'm really P/Oed that I don't have the big bike. I could have gotten it redynoed at Hoist!'s shop. He tells me that other dealers will soonbe able to do this same thing. We'll wait and see.

[TimBone]

AJ, when do you get your bike back?

[Talon]

I see what you saying. The base map may be off a little and the auto tune in certain cells may be shooting for an incorrect AFR number. Plus you may want to change the timing. At this time, I'm only doing the Power Pacc and V&H classics, they should have a map for this basic setup. I'll have to wait a while for the good stuff, Daughter getting married this month, $$$$$$$    My question is when you get into new TB and injectors, how well will the over tune work from an auto tuner. I guess it will still look at the targets set in the cells??? This is my first injected/ECU bike. I've played with some car and truck tuners with friends, but not much, enough to be dangerous!!! I might be hitting some of you guys up for help after it get mine installed!