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[dnlpnd]

Does anyone out there have any experience with the Dynojet Power Vision?

I have to admit the user interface and the whole concept of plugging into the ECM and viewing live data from the handlebars is extremely cool.

1.) The PV update client showed my software out of date (out-of-the-box) and it updated no problem, but the Dynojet website says there is a newer firmware update than the one on my PV.  However, the firmware update does not come up on the PV update client to give me the option to update.  What's up with that?

Out-of-Box firmware =  version 2.0.6-1340   Jan 14 2014
Newest published firmware = version 2.0.8-1412   Mar 26 2014

2.) The closest tune available from Dynojet for my 2014 CVO Road King w/ Rinehart True Dual Extremes is a 2011 CVO 110 cu in Rinehart True Dual Extremes.  In fact, this 2011 tune is the newest 110 cu in "touring" tune in their system.  What are the differences between a 2011 touring 110 cu in and a 2014 Road King 110 cu in?  Do I dare try this tune with all the ECM differences (CAN bus) between a 2011 and 2014?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

[JakeB]

you need to call dynojet and talk to them.  don't use the old 110" tune.  i asked the same question and they said everything is different for the 14s.  you will need to send them a copy of your stock settings..  they will build you a map and e-mail back to you.  then you can flash your bike with that custom built tune and auto tune from there.  after a couple auto tune rides you should be pretty much spot on. 

[Jswerve]

Does anyone out there have any experience with the Dynojet Power Vision?

I have to admit the user interface and the whole concept of plugging into the ECM and viewing live data from the handlebars is extremely cool.

1.) The PV update client showed my software out of date (out-of-the-box) and it updated no problem, but the Dynojet website says there is a newer firmware update than the one on my PV.  However, the firmware update does not come up on the PV update client to give me the option to update.  What's up with that?

Out-of-Box firmware =  version 2.0.6-1340   Jan 14 2014
Newest published firmware = version 2.0.8-1412   Mar 26 2014

2.) The closest tune available from Dynojet for my 2014 CVO Road King w/ Rinehart True Dual Extremes is a 2011 CVO 110 cu in Rinehart True Dual Extremes.  In fact, this 2011 tune is the newest 110 cu in "touring" tune in their system?  What are the differences between a 2011 touring 110 cu in and a 2014 Road King 110 cu in?  Do I dare try this tune with all the ECM differences (CAN bus) between a 2011 and 2014?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

If you purchased it from Fuelmoto you can call them they have excellent customer service. As far as the firmware, they are always updating it. Just keep it up to date, no biggy.

[dnlpnd]

you need to call dynojet and talk to them.  don't use the old 110" tune.  i asked the same question and they said everything is different for the 14s.  you will need to send them a copy of your stock settings..  they will build you a map and e-mail back to you.  then you can flash your bike with that custom built tune and auto tune from there.  after a couple auto tune rides you should be pretty much spot on.

Good information, I kind of figured there were a lot of differences between '11 110 cu in and '14 110 cu in.  I'll send Dynojet an email right now with the stock program attached.

I did not buy the Auto Tune stuff.  Just adding Rinehart True Dual Extremes w/ 2-1/2" baffles to an already CVO ECM map, didn't make it run that much worse, so I wasn't looking for significantly different mapping.  I was doing it more for a Tach that I can see and possibly a shift light setup.

In your opinion is the Auto Tune necessary?  If so, do you recommend the standard or pro Auto Tune?

Thanks

[Jswerve]

Good information, I kind of figured there were a lot of differences between '11 110 cu in and '14 110 cu in.  I'll send Dynojet an email right now with the stock program attached.

I did not buy the Auto Tune stuff.  Just adding Rinehart True Dual Extremes w/ 2-1/2" baffles to an already CVO ECM map, didn't make it run that much worse, so I wasn't looking for significantly different mapping.  I was doing it more for a Tach that I can see and possibly a shift light setup.

In you opinion is the Auto Tune necessary?  If so, do you recommend the standard or pro Auto Tune?

Thanks

All power visions come with basic auto tune.  It's a great tool and you can Google and find plenty of great videos to explain how to use it.

Jesse

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[dnlpnd]

If you purchased it from Fuelmoto you can call them they have excellent customer service. As far as the firmware, they are always updating it. Just keep it up to date, no biggy.

Yeah, I get that they are always updating the firmware and I can see that mine is already out of date.  That is the point, the update client software is not giving me the opportunity to update the firmware, which is my understanding of how the firmware gets updated.  Am I missing something here?

How do you update your firmware?

Thanks

[CVO2FIXUP]

 Here is a great place to mount it. Kuriaken fuel door $100.00  Bang your done.

[dnlpnd]

Here is a great place to mount it. Kuriaken fuel door $100.00  Bang your done.

Looks nice, but on the RK the speedo and tach are in the "fuel door".

I found this pic online, but I am trying to work out a permanent mount on the handlebar cover, similar to this one.  Mine would be centered!

Thanks

[skratch]

Yeah, I get that they are always updating the firmware and I can see that mine is already out of date.  That is the point, the update client software is not giving me the opportunity to update the firmware, which is my understanding of how the firmware gets updated.  Am I missing something here?

How do you update your firmware?

Thanks

when you have your pv hooked up with the update client running, you should see something like the attached.  in my case, it is showing that the tune database is outdated.  i'm not going to bother updating that right now since i don't use dynojet maps.  compare the firmware release, if it is the same on both sides, then you are up to date.  regardless of what they said on the website, if the update client doesn't see it, then maybe there was a problem with it and they pulled it back.....

[dnlpnd]

when you have your pv hooked up with the update client running, you should see something like the attached.  in my case, it is showing that the tune database is outdated.  i'm not going to bother updating that right now since i don't use dynojet maps.  compare the firmware release, if it is the same on both sides, then you are up to date.  regardless of what they said on the website, if the update client doesn't see it, then maybe there was a problem with it and they pulled it back.....

That is really interesting!

As seen in this picture, I do not get anything about Databases or Firmware.  All I get is the PV software listed, which I know is the most current, because I didn't bother to use the disk that came with the PV, I went directly to the website and got the latest PV software.

The newer firmware (from the one on my PV) is still available for download manually, but I see no way to manually force it's upload into the PV.  So, I am skeptical they pulled it back only through the PV software, but I know what you mean.

Thanks

[skratch]

your computer is not recognizing your pv.  the only thing that it is showing is the winpv software update (which you are current on).  for some reason, your pv is not being seen.  try a different usb port? 

[dnlpnd]

your computer is not recognizing your pv.  the only thing that it is showing is the winpv software update (which you are current on).  for some reason, your pv is not being seen.  try a different usb port?

Genius...sheer genius!

I have a desktop computer with Win 7 and laptop with Win 7, none of the device stuff comes up on the desktop computer, but when I try everything on my laptop, my PV displays information similar to yours (see picture).  It's not the USB port either, the device connects and disconnects just as you would expect any USB device to behave when you plug it in.  The desktop computer immediately recognizes the device when the cable is plugged in and device reads "PC Link Mode Active".  Very weird!

Anyway, using my laptop, all the updates popped up and I installed all the updates successfully.

Thank You So Much for the Help,

dnlpnd

[JakeB]

Good information, I kind of figured there were a lot of differences between '11 110 cu in and '14 110 cu in.  I'll send Dynojet an email right now with the stock program attached.

I did not buy the Auto Tune stuff.  Just adding Rinehart True Dual Extremes w/ 2-1/2" baffles to an already CVO ECM map, didn't make it run that much worse, so I wasn't looking for significantly different mapping.  I was doing it more for a Tach that I can see and possibly a shift light setup.

In your opinion is the Auto Tune necessary?  If so, do you recommend the standard or pro Auto Tune?

Thanks

I was talking about the auto tune basic. It comes with as part of the standard PV setup. Do yourself a favor and check out dynojets page on YouTube. Lots of good videos on there that should answer most of your questions.

[Timusa]

Does anyone out there have any experience with the Dynojet Power Vision?

I have to admit the user interface and the whole concept of plugging into the ECM and viewing live data from the handlebars is extremely cool.

1.) The PV update client showed my software out of date (out-of-the-box) and it updated no problem, but the Dynojet website says there is a newer firmware update than the one on my PV.  However, the firmware update does not come up on the PV update client to give me the option to update.  What's up with that?

Out-of-Box firmware =  version 2.0.6-1340   Jan 14 2014
Newest published firmware = version 2.0.8-1412   Mar 26 2014

2.) The closest tune available from Dynojet for my 2014 CVO Road King w/ Rinehart True Dual Extremes is a 2011 CVO 110 cu in Rinehart True Dual Extremes.  In fact, this 2011 tune is the newest 110 cu in "touring" tune in their system.  What are the differences between a 2011 touring 110 cu in and a 2014 Road King 110 cu in?  Do I dare try this tune with all the ECM differences (CAN bus) between a 2011 and 2014?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You

I have the same bike and I actually tried to flash the '11 tune to my ECM, the Power Vision simply did not let me.
I started with a tune manually copied from SERT calibration, it did not work due to weird spark advance tables. Then I came back to my stock tune and started working on it. I left the spark advance tables basically stock and replaced just the AFR tables.
My goal was to get rid of the cells that read "14,6".
Then I put the PV in Autotune basic mode and made 10 runs, gathering info. Found my tune to be pretty close (1–3 percent).
Today I finally got the bike on dyne for one quick run. Results attached. The dyne guy said my AFR curve is good.

[Timusa]

The diagram above is from the second run. First was 95 HP, the dyno guy said the bike was hotter during the second run, so I lost one horse).
This second diagram is to compare my bike and the completely stock one (with stock mufflers, baffles, calibration and catalytic converter).
I am no pro, but I see the dip (between 2500 and 3500 RPM) in the stock bike diagram.

[dnlpnd]

Good information, I kind of figured there were a lot of differences between '11 110 cu in and '14 110 cu in.  I'll send Dynojet an email right now with the stock program attached.

I did not buy the Auto Tune stuff.  Just adding Rinehart True Dual Extremes w/ 2-1/2" baffles to an already CVO ECM map, didn't make it run that much worse, so I wasn't looking for significantly different mapping.  I was doing it more for a Tach that I can see and possibly a shift light setup.

In your opinion is the Auto Tune necessary?  If so, do you recommend the standard or pro Auto Tune?

Thanks

So, I communicated back and forth with Dynojet tech support about 2014 CVO RK Power Vision maps and I am pretty discussed with them.  All they will provide is a generic map for 2014 110 cu in touring.  14T1100024xx.pvt, 2014 Touring, TC110", 2-2 exh

First of all, since Dynojet obviously has a generic 2014 110 cu in touring map, why doesn't Dynojet put the map on their website for public consumption?  Is there something wrong with it?  Why aren't they confident enough to publish?

Secondly, when I keep pressing with questions, this Dynojet rep just keeps replying, "I have already sent you the map for a 2014 touring.  The only way we have to build a correct tune, is to have a bike on the Dyno."  He seems to be avoiding my questions.  I really expected better from Dynojet.

Oh, I also noticed Dynojet bumped the rev limiter from 5900 to 6200 on this map, which I wonder if this is too high for a stock 110 cu in or could cause me warrantee issues.

What do you guys think?  Do I dare upload a generic 2014 110 cu in touring map to my ECM not knowing any of the specifics of the intake or exhaust?

Thanks

[CVO2FIXUP]

 These canned maps are junk. Good for nothing.  The rep is correct, you have to get your bike dyno tuned by a expert ( not the dealer )  This is the only way you will get your money's worth out of the tuner, and out of your bike.  It's like a frozen dinner you stick in the microwave, compared to a 5 star meal in a restaurant. Get the Dyno Shtine. cheers.

[skratch]

Oh, I also noticed Dynojet bumped the rev limiter from 5900 to 6200 on this map, which I wonder if this is too high for a stock 110 cu in or could cause me warrantee issues.

not just this map.  the rev limiter has been bumped on all the pv maps that i've been looking at since 2010.  if it bothers you, it is easy enough to change that value back to 5900 or whatever you want.  mine is 5700.  just because it is that high, doesn't mean that you have to hit it.

[dnlpnd]

just because it is that high, doesn't mean that you have to hit it.

Yeah, this is my first V-twin and I am coming off a 12K redline bike.  So, I find myself bumping against the limiter more often than I care to admit   So, I take it you think 6200 is too high for 110 in3.  Larger diameter pistons = more mass @ higher revolutions per minute is going to put more stress on everything.  The question is will it hurt anything?

ekim60, what do you think of using the off-the-shelf '14 110 in3 with "2-2" exhaust?  Dynojet had no interest in looking at my stock map, like JakeB said.

Thanks

[FlaHeatWave]

Yeah, this is my first V-twin and I am coming off a 12K redline bike.  So, I find myself bumping against the limiter more often than I care to admit   So, I take it you think 6200 is too high for 110 in3.  Larger diameter pistons = more mass @ higher revolutions per minute is going to put more stress on everything.  The question is will it hurt anything?

ekim60, what do you think of using the off-the-shelf '14 110 in3 with "2-2" exhaust?  Dynojet had no interest in looking at my stock map, like JakeB said.

Thanks

In your situation, I'd set the limiter to 5,700 or so, since the cams have fallen way off well before that.

The only other recommendation is learn to embrace the auto tune... otherwise you will spend a whole lot of $$ every time you make a change and pay for a dyno...

[skratch]

Yeah, this is my first V-twin and I am coming off a 12K redline bike.  So, I find myself bumping against the limiter more often than I care to admit   So, I take it you think 6200 is too high for 110 in3.  Larger diameter pistons = more mass @ higher revolutions per minute is going to put more stress on everything.  The question is will it hurt anything?

ekim60, what do you think of using the off-the-shelf '14 110 in3 with "2-2" exhaust?  Dynojet had no interest in looking at my stock map, like JakeB said.

Thanks

whether it's too high or not, i dunno.  i just figured that since the cams had already fallen off, there was no reason to have it set that high.  besides, if my engine was to take a dump, i want to give them as little ammo as possible to deny the warranty.

as far as using an off the shelf map for the '14, i really don't know.  i've got one of them 'old' bikes, 2013.   i don't know where you got your pv from, but if you did by chance get it from fuel moto, then they could hook you up with a decent map to start with.  they do a lot of r&d on the pv in conjunction with dynojet.

[dnlpnd]

whether it's too high or not, i dunno.  i just figured that since the cams had already fallen off, there was no reason to have it set that high.  besides, if my engine was to take a dump, i want to give them as little ammo as possible to deny the warranty.

as far as using an off the shelf map for the '14, i really don't know.  i've got one of them 'old' bikes, 2013.   i don't know where you got your pv from, but if you did by chance get it from fuel moto, then they could hook you up with a decent map to start with.  they do a lot of r&d on the pv in conjunction with dynojet.

I actually got to talk to my favorite mechanic at my dealer tonight.  He said 6200 should not be a problem and even though the bike quits making power long before that point, the slightly higher rpm has the advantage of being at that much higher of an rpm on the next shift.  I like that answer, so I think I am going to stay with 6200.  He referred to 6400 and up as the "danger zone" on my stock 110 cu in engine.

My PV came from 58Cycle and the PV map came directly from Dynojet.  The info in the map says 2014 touring, 110 cu in, and 2-2 pipes (which I assume means true dual exhaust).  I also learned today directly from Dynojet that the reason they needed to see JakeB's stock map is because the '14 Breakouts came with two incompatible mapping strategies and they needed to see the stock map to determine which one he needed.  So, JakeB received a canned map from Dynojet for the appropriate '14 Breakout, just like me for the '14 CVO Road King, which only had one mapping strategy.

I am grateful for all the great feedback!  I think I have enough info to know what I need to do.  Upload the basic CVO touring map Dynojet has supplied and continue to dial in with the basic Autotune.  My mechanic also said he has personally had a 100% failure rate with the Pro Autotune module and sensors.

My Iron Aces PV mount should be here tomorrow.   

Thank You,

dnlpnd

[UAV Pilot]

What exactly did your mechanic mean by "100 percent failure rate on pro autotune module and sensors"  Can you be more specific?  I thought that system just used wide band bosch sensors which are very reliable.

[dnlpnd]

What exactly did your mechanic mean by "100 percent failure rate on pro autotune module and sensors"  Can you be more specific?  I thought that system just used wide band bosch sensors which are very reliable.

Keep in mind this dealer heavily pushes the Power Commander V and generates a lot of income off their dyno @ $100/hr.  I think the mechanic (the ECM guru at this dealer) said he installed two Autotune Pros at customer insistence, one was dead out of the box and the other failed a month later.  I think what the mechanic is calling a one month failure is a customer that had to bring a trike back after he kept engaging the Autotune Pro and it "undid" all the progress that was made on the dyno.  I think the dealer ultimately ended up taking the Power Vision off and went back with a Power Commander V.  This mechanic clearly is not a fan of the Power Vision and had very limited experience with it.

[dnlpnd]

An Update:

I plugged in the Power Vision and uploaded/flashed the Dynojet provided generic/canned ECM map for touring 110 cu in and 2-2 pipes and unplugged the PV (with no changes).  The first time out with the new tune was an ABATE ride this weekend.  I noticed that the decel pops are almost nonexistent and acceleration under hard launches seems slightly improved.  I am pretty sure once I keep the Power Vision on the bike and use the Basic Autotune function a few times, as others have recommended, it will only get better from here.

However, I do have an annoying problem!  The check engine light stays on continuously, since the ECM map uploaded.  Eventually, I am going to need this remedied, because no matter how good the bike runs with this new tune, I am not going to ride around with the check engine light on all the time.

Any suggestions, experienced PV users?

Thanks!

[grc]

An Update:

I plugged in the Power Vision and uploaded/flashed the Dynojet provided generic/canned ECM map for touring 110 cu in and 2-2 pipes and unplugged the PV (with no changes).  The first time out with the new tune was an ABATE ride this weekend.  I noticed that the decel pops are almost nonexistent and acceleration under hard launches seems slightly improved.  I am pretty sure once I keep the Power Vision on the bike and use the Basic Autotune function a few times, as others have recommended, it will only get better from here.

However, I do have an annoying problem!  The check engine light stays on continuously, since the ECM map uploaded.  Eventually, I am going to need this remedied, because no matter how good the bike runs with this new tune, I am not going to ride around with the check engine light on all the time.

Any suggestions, experienced PV users?

Thanks!

Check and then clear any diagnostic trouble codes that exist, then see if any return after you go for a ride.  You can use the PV to check and clear codes btw.

Jerry

[dnlpnd]

Check and then clear any diagnostic trouble codes that exist, then see if any return after you go for a ride.  You can use the PV to check and clear codes btw.

Jerry

Jerry:

I plugged the PV back in and retrieved the error codes using your instructions. (see below)  Without starting the bike, the top two error codes cleared, but "P2185 HIST CURR ETC sensor high" will not clear on the Dynotjet provided generic tune.  So, needless to say, the check engine light will not go out.  Therefore, until I get to the bottom of this, I restored the original tune and cleared the errors.  Everything is back to pre-PV status, the error codes reset without issue, and of course the check engine is now off.

Any recommendations?

Thanks,

dnlpnd

[grc]

Jerry:

I plugged the PV back in and retrieved the error codes using your instructions. (see below)  Without starting the bike, the top two error codes cleared, but "P2185 HIST CURR ETC sensor high" will not clear on the Dynotjet provided generic tune.  So, needless to say, the check engine light will not go out.  Therefore, until I get to the bottom of this, I restored the original tune and cleared the errors.  Everything is back to pre-PV status, the error codes reset without issue, and of course the check engine is now off.

Any recommendations?

Thanks,

dnlpnd

P2185 is a code for the engine coolant temperature sensor.  If there is no fault with the stock map and there is a code with the PV map, I'm guessing the PV folks did something wrong.  I'd give them a call and let them know.  I think they may have given you a map for a Twin Cooled bike, and a RK isn't Twin Cooled.  It looks like the ECM with the PV map in it is looking for a coolant temp sensor and of course there isn't one.

Jerry

[dnlpnd]

P2185 is a code for the engine coolant temperature sensor.  If there is no fault with the stock map and there is a code with the PV map, I'm guessing the PV folks did something wrong.  I'd give them a call and let them know.  I think they may have given you a map for a Twin Cooled bike, and a RK isn't Twin Cooled.  It looks like the ECM with the PV map in it is looking for a coolant temp sensor and of course there isn't one.

Jerry

Here is the reply I received from my Dynojet inquiry today:

dnlpnd,

Sadly, I send you a tune for a twin cooled motor, your bike being air cooled threw an error with the wrong type of tune. The last tune I send should not throw that error. Sorry.

Power Vision Technical Support Specialist

I have completely lost confidence in the Dynojet provided ECU maps.  This guy who answers sales AND tech support inquiries has contradicted himself multiple times, he fires off responses without having all the facts, and has made several blunders.  This third different map he has sent me is probably some POS map that he changed a single parameter from liquid to air-cooled to make the error go away.  It is anyone's guess what bike this map was created from, if any.  No wonder why they have not published a map for the 2014 CVO tourers on their website.

I've seen behind the curtain of The Great Oz (Dynojet) and it ain't pretty! 

[skratch]

why don't you call dynojet and talk with them directly to address your concerns?  i've not had to deal with them as far as editing a map, but with licensing and have had no problems at all.  i was dealing with roy hartman (he's a tech, not sales).  maybe he can help....

[sadunbar]

Here is the reply I received from my Dynojet inquiry today:

dnlpnd,

Sadly, I send you a tune for a twin cooled motor, your bike being air cooled threw an error with the wrong type of tune. The last tune I send should not throw that error. Sorry.

Power Vision Technical Support Specialist

I have completely lost confidence in the Dynojet provided ECU maps.  This guy who answers sales AND tech support inquiries has contradicted himself multiple times, he fires off responses without having all the facts, and has made several blunders.  This third different map he has sent me is probably some POS map that he changed a single parameter from liquid to air-cooled to make the error go away.  It is anyone's guess what bike this map was created from, if any.  No wonder why they have not published a map for the 2014 CVO tourers on their website.

I've seen behind the curtain of The Great Oz (Dynojet) and it ain't pretty! 

Good call, Jerry!

If buying a Dynojet Power Vision, I'd suggest making the purchase from Fuel Moto.  And if any issues occur, address your questions directly to Jamie Long.  Odds of receiving proper responses would be greatly improved...   

[Jswerve]

I paid the extra 80 from fuel moto worth every penny they are a great company.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[MrSurly]

I paid the extra 80 from fuel moto worth every penny they are a great company.

Absolutely correct, definitely worth it. I have spoken directly to Jamie three times and the guy has surprising patience and a wealth of information.
In addition, they STILL are running the "Tune in" promotion where you will get 150bux OFF on a PV if you send in just any other old tuner. I sent in an old Fuel Pak, got the PV for 400.

[05Train]

Agreed.  I don't think about that $80 when I can get Jamie on the phone pretty much whenever I have a question.

[tennesseeguy]

I just got my power vision installed today and dealing with Jamie at FM is so easy.
I too looked around and saw   I could get it cheaper but I am so glad I went with peoples
 advice and ordered from Fuel Moto. If I can install it and understand some things then anyone can.
I did the update and then the install was a breeze. I had the little sheet that came with it and
didn't even need the PV instructions.

BIG kudos to Jamie and Fuel Moto

[Jswerve]

I just got my power vision installed today and dealing with Jamie at FM is so easy.
I too looked around and saw   I could get it cheaper but I am so glad I went with peoples
 advice and ordered from Fuel Moto. If I can install it and understand some things then anyone can.
I did the update and then the install was a breeze. I had the little sheet that came with it and
didn't even need the PV instructions.

BIG kudos to Jamie and Fuel Moto

Seriously, you can call or email Jamie and Brian all day long, months after your purchase and they will continue to answer your questions and help in any way they can. Just like Harley Davidson customer service LMAO 

[hrdtail78]

What is the $80 for?

[skratch]

$80 is the difference in price that has been found through searching around.  however, if you buy from fuelmoto, you get it premapped with a map for your configuration, lifetime map support/tech support and they double the factory warranty (2 yrs instead of 1).

thats gotta be worth at least $80 

[tennesseeguy]

$80 is the difference in price that has been found through searching around.  however, if you buy from fuelmoto, you get it premapped with a map for your configuration, lifetime map support/tech support and they double the factory warranty (2 yrs instead of 1).

thats gotta be worth at least $80 

Well said!!

[CVCVORG]

 
Jamie is definitely a person worth the reference.  My guys have used him for several map upgrades and they love him!

My next engine upgrade will be at FuelMoto

[CVO2FIXUP]

Why not take that $80.00 and add a little more of the green stuff and get a proper dyno tune?  Way more power, ( prob get like 140/140  )  Way better tune way smoother operation way better all around. No brainer to me.

[MrSurly]

That strategy works if you're going to make all of your upgrades at once, get it tuned and never change it after that.
In the real world, lots of us make changes in steps as the funds allow and we can't just run down and another dyno tune with every change or increment. Self-tuning with modern auto tuning devices becomes a viable option when you've got a resource like Jamie.

[Jswerve]

Why not take that $80.00 and add a little more of the green stuff and get a proper dyno tune?  Way more power, ( prob get like 140/140  )  Way better tune way smoother operation way better all around. No brainer to me.

Because you have to buy a tuner either way so why skim 80 bucks on a 35k ride? Might as well get a tuner with double the factory warranty and a lifetime of knowledge.  That's the no brainer IMO

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